Irrefutable biblical proof that death is abolished at the second coming

Spiritual Israelite · Jan 28, 2025

WPM said:
The second death

When it comes to the meaning of “the second death” most evangelicals are in solid agreement that this is talking about eternal damnation. Revelation 20:14 tells us: “death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.”

References to the term “the second death” are only found in the book of Revelation. Outside of our main references in Revelation 20, we find only two other mentions, in Revelation chapters 2 and 21. Revelation 21:6-8 outlines the nature of the second death and those that see it, and most important the type and way a person escapes it, saying, “I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.”

But what many Premillennialists do not consider is that if believers have not yet had their part in the first resurrection, and if, as Scripture teaches, it is the actual means by which we overcome the second death, and it is still future, then the second death still has power over believers in this life. That means they have not already experienced eternal life in which they shall never die, and overcome eternal death, as Jesus and the New Testament writers continually promised happens upon salvation. They have not been delivered from darkness to light. They still don't possess an eternal hope. They have not yet defeated sin, death and Hades. They are not then seated in heavenly places. This reality is still future. This false teaching, negates numerous explicit New Testament passages. This is what Premillennialism produces – contradiction after contradiction.

There is another major contradiction in Premillennialism that many fail to consider, and that is, if the first resurrection is the actual means by which we overcome the second death, and if it is yet future, and it relates to the physical resurrection of the dead in Christ, this means that the living in Christ do not partake in the only means by which we conquer the second death at the second coming. After all, they do not die, they are therefore not resurrected. They are changed in a moment and caught up to be with Jesus in the air.

Only the Amillennialist explanation makes sense, is supported by numerous other Scripture, and recognizes the current ongoing realization of this great fulfillment. Only this interpretation embraces all the elect – which is the thrust of the teaching. The reality is, all God’s people have their part in Christ’s first resurrection and therefore escape eternal damnation.

This resurrection has to be spiritual “in Christ.” Notably, this promise in Revelation 20:6 is in the present tense, thus supporting the Amil interpretation. Basically, this is not simply a future hope, it is a present reality for the redeemed. When we get saved, all the redeemed of all times (without exception) partake in this glorious resurrection. This therefore gives them a current ongoing everlasting victory over eternal punishment (as repeatedly taught in Scripture).

The first resurrection

The first resurrection is shown throughout the Word to be Christ’s resurrection.

Acts 26:23 presents Christ’s physical resurrection as the first resurrection, saying, “Christ should suffer, and that He should be the first [Gr. protos] that should rise [Gr. anastasis] from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles."

Colossians 1:18 closely mirrors Acts 26:23, saying, “And he (Christ) is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn (or prototokos) from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.”

The word prototokos here is the combination of protos (Strong’s 4416) and tikto (Strong’s 5088). It means what it says.

Revelation 1:5 uses the same Greek word to describe Christ’s triumphant resurrection, saying, “Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten (or prototokos) of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth.”

Paul similarly says in 1 Corinthians 15:20, “now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.”

Revelation 20:6 simply says, “Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first [Gr. protos] resurrection [Gr. anastasis]: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.”

This is evidence! This is corroboration!

Agree completely! Premils know nothing about the corroboration of scripture. Revelation 1:5-6, Revelation 5:9 and 1 Peter 2:9 all indicate that Christ's followers being "priests of God and of Christ", as Rev 20:6 puts it, is a current reality. That has to be taken into account when interpreting Revelation 20:6, but Premils do not do that. And, as you pointed out, other scripture indicates that Christ's resurrection itself is the first resurrection and that has to be taken into account as well. But, again, Premils don't do that.

Premils often bring up Revelation 20 verses 4 and 5, but they miss that verse 6 does not support their interpretation of verses 4 and 5. Verse 6 indicates that having part in the first resurrection is a must in order for the second death to not have power over you. Does the second death have power over us right now? No! Does it have power over the dead in Christ right now? No! So, what that tells me is that all who are saved now must have had part in the first resurrection since the second death has no power over anyone who is saved. That makes having part in the first resurrection a current reality. And, all who are saved have spiritually had part in the first resurrection, which is Christ's resurrection.

Amil is the only way you can reconcile a verse like Revelation 20:6 with the rest of scripture. As you already pointed out, the Premil understanding of the first resurrection would make it so that those who are alive and remain unto the second coming of Christ would not have part in the first resurrection, since you obviously have to be dead in order to be resurrected. So, how would they avoid the second death without having part in the first resurrection? Revelation 20:6 indicates that is not possible.

Keraz · Jan 28, 2025

Spiritual Israelite said:
Premils often bring up Revelation 20 verses 4 and 5, but they miss that verse 6 does not support their interpretation of verses 4 and 5. Verse 6 indicates that having part in the first resurrection is a must in order for the second death to not have power over you. Does the second death have power over us right now? No! Does it have power over the dead in Christ right now? No! So, what that tells me is that all who are saved now must have had part in the first resurrection since the second death has no power over anyone who is saved. That makes having part in the first resurrection a current reality. And, all who are saved have spiritually had part in the first resurrection, which is Christ's resurrection.

Amil is the only way you can reconcile a verse like Revelation 20:6 with the rest of scripture. As you already pointed out, the Premil understanding of the first resurrection would make it so that those who are alive and remain unto the second coming of Christ would not have part in the first resurrection, since you obviously have to be dead in order to be resurrected. So, how would they avoid the second death without having part in the first resurrection? Revelation 20:6 indicates that is not possible.

Revelation 20:4-6, is a clear Prophetic statement.
ONLY the martyrs killed during the 42 month period of Satanic world control and the Great Tribulation, will be resurrected when Jesus Returns, And that resurrection is not into immortality, but as their names are Written into the Book of Life, they will receive it at the GWT Judgment; AFTER the Millennium.
It is obvious to me and others that you AMill proponents are very selective and biased in your interpretations.

I reconcile Rev 20:6 with John 11:17-27, where Jesus demonstrates His ability to bring people back to mortal life. They do die again.

Spiritual Israelite · Jan 28, 2025

Keraz said:
Revelation 20:4-6, is a clear Prophetic statement.

Not to some, like you, since you don't understand what it means.

Keraz said:
ONLY the martyrs killed during the 42 month period of Satanic world control and the Great Tribulation, will be resurrected when Jesus Returns,

Total nonsense. You are contradicting what Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 15:22-23 which is that ALL of the dead in Christ will be resurrected at the same time, which will be when Jesus returns. Why do you not think Paul can be trusted in what he taught?

Keraz said:
And that resurrection is not into immortality, but as their names are Written into the Book of Life, they will receive it at the GWT Judgment; AFTER the Millennium.
It is obvious to me and others that you AMill proponents are very selective and biased in your interpretations.

It is obvious to me that you have no idea of what you're talking about.

Keraz said:
I reconcile Rev 20:6 with John 11:17-27, where Jesus demonstrates His ability to bring people back to mortal life. They do die again.

No one will be resurrected in the future only to die again afterwards. That is not taught anywhere in scripture. You have to resort to making things up that aren't taught anywhere in scripture in order to keep your doctrine afloat.

Tell me, does the second death have any power over those who are saved right now, including those who are alive and the dead in Christ? It does not, right? Read Revelation 20:6 again. It says regarding those who have part in the first resurrection that the second death has no power over them. If the second death has no power over those who belong to Christ right now, which it doesn't, then that means those who belong to Him have had part in the first resurrection.

Scripture teaches that Christ's resurrection was the first resurrection (Acts 26:23, 1 Cor 15:20), but you don't even take that into account because of how you cherry pick scripture. We all spiritually have part in His resurrection when we go from being dead in sins to alive in Christ because of what He accomplished with His death and resurrection.

WPM · Jan 28, 2025

Keraz said:
Revelation 20:4-6, is a clear Prophetic statement.
ONLY the martyrs killed during the 42 month period of Satanic world control and the Great Tribulation, will be resurrected when Jesus Returns, And that resurrection is not into immortality, but as their names are Written into the Book of Life, they will receive it at the GWT Judgment; AFTER the Millennium.
It is obvious to me and others that you AMill proponents are very selective and biased in your interpretations.

I reconcile Rev 20:6 with John 11:17-27, where Jesus demonstrates His ability to bring people back to mortal life. They do die again.

More false claims and more avoidance.

Davy · Jan 28, 2025

WPM said:
Why will you not look at the inspired evidence presented above that proves Amil?

Amill is a fat JOKE designed for the simple minded.

Deceived Amill believers are not aware of the following events about the wicked for AFTER... Christ's future return, because their false prophets tell them the Revelation 20 chapter isn't literal, but only spiritual or philosophical:

Rev 20:5-9
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

You mean after a "thousand years" reign by Christ and His elect, the devil is going to be loosed out of his pit prison to go deceive the nations that are in the four quarters of the earth of that time? Yeah, and that means those "nations" are NOT of the "first resurrection" of Christ's saints! They are the deceived and wicked STILL EXISTING EVEN AFTER THE 1,000 YEARS!

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
KJV

Those "nations" are then led by Satan up to the "camp of the saints" and "the beloved city", that will be on earth?? That certainly ain't about today's Jerusalem, because Jerusalem is inhabited by mostly unbelieving Jews and Arabs, not a "camp of saints" at all which refers only to Christians. That "camp of saints" is where Christ and His elect of the "first resurrection" will REIGN on earth from beginning at His future RETURN. The Revelation 22:14-15 verses gives another view of the wicked nations existing OUTSIDE the gates of the beloved city during that 1,000 years reign by Christ.

Rev 20:11-14
11 And I saw a great white throne, and Him That sat on it, from Whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
KJV

The above means the "second death" DOESN'T EVEN OCCUR UNTIL AFTER... THAT 1,000 YEARS REIGN and GOD'S GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT! That is yet another Biblical proof that the "thousand years" reign by Christ Jesus and His elect is meant LITERALLY.

Keraz · Jan 28, 2025

Spiritual Israelite said:
Not to some, like you, since you don't understand what it means.

Revelation 20:4-6 means what it says.

Spiritual Israelite said:
You are contradicting what Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 15:22-23 which is that ALL of the dead in Christ will be resurrected at the same time, which will be when Jesus returns.

Paul says there is a proper order, which we see culminating when God sits in Judgment, AFTER the thousand years is over.

Spiritual Israelite said:
It is obvious to me that you have no idea of what you're talking about.

I repeat the Words of scripture, No one receives immortality until the Book of Life is opened and Eternity kicks in.

Spiritual Israelite said:
No one will be resurrected in the future only to die again afterwards. That is not taught anywhere in scripture.

There are several instances of a dead person being brought back to life, Elijah did it and Jesus did several times. He will do it again with those martyrs murdered during the final 3 1/2 years.

Spiritual Israelite said:
Tell me, does the second death have any power over those who are saved right now, including those who are alive and the dead in Christ?

No. Because the actual Second Death is annihilation. Rev 20:14-15 But those martyrs may live for the thousand years, but if they do die again, then their change to immortality is assured.

WPM said:
More false claims and more avoidance.

You are so hopelessly locked into beliefs and doctrines which require a virtual rewriting of the end time Prophesies, that only as things take place will false ideas and theories, be exposed.

jeffweeder · Jan 28, 2025

Davy said:
Amill is a fat JOKE designed for the simple minded.

No joke...,
Amill is designed for the simple minded...,

Psalm 19:7
The law of the Lord is perfect (flawless), restoring and refreshing the soul; The statutes of the Lord are reliable and trustworthy, making wise the simple.
Psalm 116:6
The Lord protects the simple(childlike); I was brought low [humbled and discouraged], and He saved me.
Psalm 119:130
The unfolding of Your [glorious] words give light; Their unfolding gives understanding to the simple(childlike).

Good place to be.

jeffweeder · Jan 28, 2025

Keraz said:
Paul says there is a proper order, which we see culminating when God sits in Judgment, AFTER the thousand years is over.

This is what Paul says..,

23 But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, then those who are Christ’s [own will be resurrected with incorruptible, immortal bodies] at His coming.
24 After that comes the end (completion), when He hands over the kingdom to God the Father, after He has made inoperative and abolished every ruler and every authority and power. 25 For Christ must reign [as King] until He has put all His enemies under His feet.

Keraz said:
I repeat the Words of scripture, No one receives immortality until the Book of Life is opened and Eternity kicks in.

I repeat the scripture posted above. That happens at his coming.

Keraz · Jan 29, 2025

The AMillennium theory refuted:

Hosea 6:2 prophesies the 2000 year Christian age, our revival, then the 1000 years when we will live in His sight.
The formula for a day in heaven, being the equal to 1000 years earth time, is in: Psalms 90:4 and 2 Peter 3:8

There is also the prophecy of Jesus in Luke 13:32, where He says: Today and tomorrow I shall be working...and the next day I shall come into My reward.
He then says: Nevertheless, [notwithstanding, or in spite of this...] I must go on today and tomorrow and the following day, for I must perish in Jerusalem. Luke 13:33
Jesus is NOT talking about the same time periods in both of these verses. If people like to think that; they make Him to be rather confused and unnecessarily repetitive.
No; He Prophesied in verse 32, how He will work for the Christian age of 2000 years. Now at 1992 years since He said that. Jesus does answer prayers, He does cure some people, He does appear to those who cry out to Him, in sincerity.

Satan is not now sealed into the Abyss. He does deceive many in this age.

The 'next day' is Gods reward to Jesus for His sacrifice, His reign over the world for the next thousand years, Psalms 2:7-9 Revelation 20:1-7 backs these scriptures up!
The AMill belief is illogical and unscriptural. It is a lie that denies Jesus His reward.

WPM · Jan 29, 2025

Keraz said:
You are so hopelessly locked into beliefs and doctrines which require a virtual rewriting of the end time Prophesies, that only as things take place will false ideas and theories, be exposed.

This is all noise.

You need to start addressing the Amil arguments that forbid your position. It seems like you are bereft of any rebuttals.

WPM · Jan 29, 2025

Keraz said:
The AMillennium theory refuted:

Hosea 6:2 prophesies the 2000 year Christian age, our revival, then the 1000 years when we will live in His sight.
The formula for a day in heaven, being the equal to 1000 years earth time, is in: Psalms 90:4 and 2 Peter 3:8

There is also the prophecy of Jesus in Luke 13:32, where He says: Today and tomorrow I shall be working...and the next day I shall come into My reward.
He then says: Nevertheless, [notwithstanding, or in spite of this...] I must go on today and tomorrow and the following day, for I must perish in Jerusalem. Luke 13:33
Jesus is NOT talking about the same time periods in both of these verses. If people like to think that; they make Him to be rather confused and unnecessarily repetitive.
No; He Prophesied in verse 32, how He will work for the Christian age of 2000 years. Now at 1992 years since He said that. Jesus does answer prayers, He does cure some people, He does appear to those who cry out to Him, in sincerity.

Satan is not now sealed into the Abyss. He does deceive many in this age.

The 'next day' is Gods reward to Jesus for His sacrifice, His reign over the world for the next thousand years, Psalms 2:7-9 Revelation 20:1-7 backs these scriptures up!
The AMill belief is illogical and unscriptural. It is a lie that denies Jesus His reward.

Talk about spiritualism gone crazy! This is all your you have. The Bible does not say what you say. You twist the text to support your error.

Hosea 6:1-3: “Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up. After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight. Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.”

There is no reason to interpret these 3 days as anything other than 3 literal days. This again shows that it is Premils that are constantly spiritualizing clear literal Scripture away in order to sustain Premil. Anyway, Jesus literally fulfilled Hosea 6:2. It has already happened. Jesus said he would fulfil this, and He did. Matt 12:40 reads: "For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

There is no millennium mention or inferred in this passage. You have to force it into the text. It doesn't in any way say on the 3,000th day but the 3rd day, this is symbolism/spiritualization gone crazy. Such extremities are required to make Premil fit. The reality is it is referring to Christ's glorious resurrection.

Jesus said in Luke 24:46-49: “Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things. And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.”

1 Cor 15:3-4: "For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures."

No text seems safe with Premil eisegesis. Where is there any mention of an alleged future millennium in Hosea 6:2 or Luke 13:32?

Keraz · Jan 29, 2025

WPM said:
Where is there any mention of an alleged future millennium in Hosea 6:2 or Luke 13:32?

People much more qualified than me, come to the same conclusion; That Hosea 6:2 and Luke 13:32, are Prophesies about the future Millennium. They and I do so because to dismiss them as insignificant, makes then unintelligible and Written in the Bible for no reason.

The theory of them being parallel to Jonahs 3 1/2 days, which was fulfilled by Jesus in the tomb, is patently wrong - the time period is different.

Your posts that promote AMill, have an air of desperation about them. I can only guess you have written a book on that subject and you surely preach on it.
What puzzles me, why mess with the plain statements in Revelation 20? Why not just let God do whatever He wants and be grateful for whatever reward you may have earned. But we know how those who built their beliefs on shifting sand, will escape only be passing thru fire. 1 Corinthians 3:11-15

Spiritual Israelite · Jan 29, 2025

Davy said:
Amill is a fat JOKE designed for the simple minded.

Only the simple minded make comments like that.

Tell me, who exactly do you believe will be populating the earth during the supposed future thousand years?

Davy said:
Deceived Amill believers are not aware of the following events about the wicked for AFTER... Christ's future return, because their false prophets tell them the Revelation 20 chapter isn't literal, but only spiritual or philosophical:

Rev 20:5-9
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

You mean after a "thousand years" reign by Christ and His elect, the devil is going to be loosed out of his pit prison to go deceive the nations that are in the four quarters of the earth of that time? Yeah, and that means those "nations" are NOT of the "first resurrection" of Christ's saints! They are the deceived and wicked STILL EXISTING EVEN AFTER THE 1,000 YEARS!

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
KJV

Those "nations" are then led by Satan up to the "camp of the saints" and "the beloved city", that will be on earth?? That certainly ain't about today's Jerusalem, because Jerusalem is inhabited by mostly unbelieving Jews and Arabs, not a "camp of saints" at all which refers only to Christians. That "camp of saints" is where Christ and His elect of the "first resurrection" will REIGN on earth from beginning at His future RETURN. The Revelation 22:14-15 verses gives another view of the wicked nations existing OUTSIDE the gates of the beloved city during that 1,000 years reign by Christ.

Talk about a fat joke. You're just babbling here. Earthly Jerusalem is not "the beloved city". That is referring to the heavenly Jerusalem that all who are in the church are part of.

Hebrews 12:18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest....22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, 23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Revelation 20:7-9 is about worldwide opposition to the church which Jesus will put an end to when He comes in flaming fire taking vengeance on all unbelievers who oppose Him and His church (2 Thess 1:7-10).

Davy said:
Rev 20:11-14
11 And I saw a great white throne, and Him That sat on it, from Whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
KJV

The above means the "second death" DOESN'T EVEN OCCUR UNTIL AFTER... THAT 1,000 YEARS REIGN and GOD'S GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT! That is yet another Biblical proof that the "thousand years" reign by Christ Jesus and His elect is meant LITERALLY.

You continue to babble. Amil doesn't claim that the second death happens any time until after the thousand years. You're just making ridiculous straw man arguments here. You're making a complete fool of yourself.

Spiritual Israelite · Jan 29, 2025

WPM said:
This is all noise.

You need to start addressing the Amil arguments that forbid your position. It seems like you are bereft of any rebuttals.

Keraz has proven that he is completely incapable of refuting Amil and supporting the premil view that he has all to himself. He makes a lot of bold claims, but fails to back them up with coherent arguments from scripture over and over again.

Spiritual Israelite · Jan 29, 2025

Keraz said:
Revelation 20:4-6 means what it says.

LOL! You know someone has no idea how to debate when they resort to ludicrous comments like this. Everyone here believes that Revelation 20:4-6 means what it says, but we obviously don't all agree on what it is saying.

Keraz said:
Paul says there is a proper order, which we see culminating when God sits in Judgment, AFTER the thousand years is over.

The order of resurrections that Paul gives is very simple. Christ's resurrection was first. Next in order are those who belong to Him when He comes again. That's it. I accept what Paul taught, but you obviously don't think he knew what he was talking about because your doctrine contradicts what he taught.

Keraz said:
I repeat the Words of scripture, No one receives immortality until the Book of Life is opened and Eternity kicks in.

Where does scripture say that? So what if someone receives immortality just before the judgment occurs? What difference does that make?

Keraz said:
There are several instances of a dead person being brought back to life, Elijah did it and Jesus did several times. He will do it again with those martyrs murdered during the final 3 1/2 years.

We're talking about the future here. Nowhere in scripture does it teach that anyone will be resurrected from the dead in a mortal body in the future.

Keraz said:
No. Because the actual Second Death is annihilation. Rev 20:14-15 But those martyrs may live for the thousand years, but if they do die again, then their change to immortality is assured.

If they do die again? What is this nonsense? Their immortality is assured after being resurrected, but they still might die again? Only to be resurrected yet again after that? That is the most nonsensical thing imaginable and is not taught anywhere in scripture.

Keraz said:
You are so hopelessly locked into beliefs and doctrines which require a virtual rewriting of the end time Prophesies, that only as things take place will false ideas and theories, be exposed.

Your ignorance is truly unbelievable. You say this while talking about complete nonsense like martyrs being resurrected with mortal bodies only to die again after that and then they'd have to be resurrected yet again to be changed to be immortal. This nonsense can't be found anywhere in scripture.

Spiritual Israelite · Jan 29, 2025

Keraz said:
The AMillennium theory refuted:

Hosea 6:2 prophesies the 2000 year Christian age, our revival, then the 1000 years when we will live in His sight.
The formula for a day in heaven, being the equal to 1000 years earth time, is in: Psalms 90:4 and 2 Peter 3:8

LOL. You have refuted nothing. Your entire theory is based on twisting scripture like Hosea 6:2 to say what you want it to say. You have no clear scripture to support your doctrine. So, your left to butcher verses like Hosea 6:2 to make it support your false doctrine.

Also, you are completely taking Psalm 90:4 and 2 Peter 3:8 out of context. Those verses do NOT say that a day in heaven is equal to 1000 years in earth time. That's nonsense. The context of those verses can be seen if you read the verse that follows 2 Peter 3:8. Peter talks about how the Lord is not slow in keeping His promise to return even if it might seem that way to some people because time does not affect Him. He is eternal. One day and a thousand years are no different to Him. That is what Psalm 90:4 and 2 Peter 3:8 mean. They refer to the Lord being eternal and not to the difference in time between heaven and earth.

Keraz said:
There is also the prophecy of Jesus in Luke 13:32, where He says: Today and tomorrow I shall be working...and the next day I shall come into My reward.
He then says: Nevertheless, [notwithstanding, or in spite of this...] I must go on today and tomorrow and the following day, for I must perish in Jerusalem. Luke 13:33
Jesus is NOT talking about the same time periods in both of these verses. If people like to think that; they make Him to be rather confused and unnecessarily repetitive.
No; He Prophesied in verse 32, how He will work for the Christian age of 2000 years. Now at 1992 years since He said that. Jesus does answer prayers, He does cure some people, He does appear to those who cry out to Him, in sincerity.

Your doctrine is based on stretching verses like those way beyond their intended meaning. Do you not have any clear scripture to back up your theories? Apparently not. You have to resort to making scriptures like these say what you want them to say and that's all you have. That makes for a very weak doctrine.

Keraz said:
Satan is not now sealed into the Abyss. He does deceive many in this age.

Your understanding of his binding is flawed. It's not about his general ability to deceive. It's about the ability he had in OT times to keep a vast majority of the world in spiritual darkness and in slavery to the fear of death because they had no hope of eternal life. But, when Jesus came that all changed. You don't understand that passages like the following relate to the binding of Satan, but they do.

Hebrews 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

In OT times, Satan had the power of death. In NT times, he does not. Does that mean nothing to you? Do you think Satan has been able to do things exactly the same as he always did even after Christ came?

Did Jesus fail to do what the following says He came to do?

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

This says that Jesus came to the earth to destroy the works of the devil. Do you think He failed to do that? I sure don't. In OT times few people were saved. In NT times, a multitude of people have been saved. That wouldn't have been possible if Jesus didn't take the power of death away from Satan and destroy his works. He provided the hope of eternal life that the world previously did not have. Before He came the Gentiles were "without hope and without God in the world" (Ephesians 2:11-13). But, His shed blood gave hope to those who previously had none and who previously were help captive by their fear of death.

Keraz said:
The 'next day' is Gods reward to Jesus for His sacrifice, His reign over the world for the next thousand years, Psalms 2:7-9 Revelation 20:1-7 backs these scriptures up!
The AMill belief is illogical and unscriptural. It is a lie that denies Jesus His reward.

You have nothing concrete to back up your claims. Just these vague references you talk about that have nothing to do with your imaginary 7,000 year theory.

Spiritual Israelite · Jan 29, 2025

Keraz said:
People much more qualified than me, come to the same conclusion; That Hosea 6:2 and Luke 13:32, are Prophesies about the future Millennium. They and I do so because to dismiss them as insignificant, makes then unintelligible and Written in the Bible for no reason.

The theory of them being parallel to Jonahs 3 1/2 days, which was fulfilled by Jesus in the tomb, is patently wrong - the time period is different.

Your posts that promote AMill, have an air of desperation about them. I can only guess you have written a book on that subject and you surely preach on it.
What puzzles me, why mess with the plain statements in Revelation 20? Why not just let God do whatever He wants and be grateful for whatever reward you may have earned. But we know how those who built their beliefs on shifting sand, will escape only be passing thru fire. 1 Corinthians 3:11-15

Why do you mess with the plain statements of Jesus in passages like John 5:28-29, Matthew 13:36-43, Matthew 13:47-50, Matthew 24:35-39 and Matthew 25:31-46? Why do you mess with the plain statements of Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4:14-5:3, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 and 1 Corinthians 15:22-28? Why do you mess with the plain statements of Peter in 2 Peter 3:3-13? Why are you willing to interpret Revelation 20 in such a way that contradicts those plain statements made elsewhere in scripture?

Spiritual Israelite · Jan 29, 2025

WPM said:
Talk about spiritualism gone crazy! This is all your you have. The Bible does not say what you say. You twist the text to support your error.

Hosea 6:1-3: “Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up. After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight. Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.”

There is no reason to interpret these 3 days as anything other than 3 literal days. This again shows that it is Premils that are constantly spiritualizing clear literal Scripture away in order to sustain Premil. Anyway, Jesus literally fulfilled Hosea 6:2. It has already happened. Jesus said he would fulfil this, and He did. Matt 12:40 reads: "For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

There is no millennium mention or inferred in this passage. You have to force it into the text. It doesn't in any way say on the 3,000th day but the 3rd day, this is symbolism/spiritualization gone crazy. Such extremities are required to make Premil fit. The reality is it is referring to Christ's glorious resurrection.

Jesus said in Luke 24:46-49: “Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things. And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.”

1 Cor 15:3-4: "For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures."

No text seems safe with Premil eisegesis. Where is there any mention of an alleged future millennium in Hosea 6:2 or Luke 13:32?

Notice that Premil has no clear scripture they can point to that supports their view. Verses like Hosea 6:2 and Luke 13:32 certainly do not clearly and straightforwardly support Premil. Not even close.

They think Revelation 20, contained within the most highly symbolic book in the entire Bible, is a straightforward scripture that supports their view, but their interpretation contradicts many other straightforward scriptures such as those that tell us that Jesus reigns now, that His followers are priests in His kingdom now, that all believers will put on immortality and all unbelievers will be killed when He returns, that all of the dead will be resurrected at generally the same time and that all people will be judged at the same time. They have to twist all of those scriptures to support their interpretation of Revelation 20. They should instead find a way to reconcile Revelation 20 with all those other plain, straightforward scriptures as only Amil can do.

WPM · Jan 29, 2025

Keraz said:
People much more qualified than me, come to the same conclusion; That Hosea 6:2 and Luke 13:32, are Prophesies about the future Millennium. They and I do so because to dismiss them as insignificant, makes then unintelligible and Written in the Bible for no reason.

The theory of them being parallel to Jonahs 3 1/2 days, which was fulfilled by Jesus in the tomb, is patently wrong - the time period is different.

Your posts that promote AMill, have an air of desperation about them. I can only guess you have written a book on that subject and you surely preach on it.
What puzzles me, why mess with the plain statements in Revelation 20? Why not just let God do whatever He wants and be grateful for whatever reward you may have earned. But we know how those who built their beliefs on shifting sand, will escape only be passing thru fire. 1 Corinthians 3:11-15

You are avoiding the question. You are promoting hyper-spiritualizing. This is another proof of the duplicity of Premil. They accuse Amils of doing this, but they are the main perpetrators. That is because Premil has zero corroboration.

WPM · Jan 29, 2025

Spiritual Israelite said:
Notice that Premil has no clear scripture they can point to that supports their view. Verses like Hosea 6:2 and Luke 13:32 certainly do not clearly and straightforwardly support Premil. Not even close.

They think Revelation 20, contained within the most highly symbolic book in the entire Bible, is a straightforward scripture that supports their view, but their interpretation contradicts many other straightforward scriptures such as those that tell us that Jesus reigns now, that His followers are priests in His kingdom now, that all believers will put on immortality and all unbelievers will be killed when He returns, that all of the dead will be resurrected at generally the same time and that all people will be judged at the same time. They have to twist all of those scriptures to support their interpretation of Revelation 20. They should instead find a way to reconcile Revelation 20 with all those other plain, straightforward scriptures as only Amil can do.

They interpret the rest of the Scripture in the light of their faulty hyper-literalist opinion of Revelation 20, even if that means spiritualizing away many literal other scriptural passages.

Irrefutable biblical proof that death is abolished at the second coming

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