Once Saved Always Saved

[mailmandan]

Heb. 10:26-29
"For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?"

In regards to Hebrews 10:26, to "sin willfully" in the Greek carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is continuous action, a matter of practice. Now we don't walk along our daily life and "accidentally" fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows a ongoing, willful, habitual action. The unrighteous practice sin (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21); not the righteous, who are born of God. (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9) *Hermeneutics.

If the word 'sanctified' in Hebrews 10:29 is used to describe saved people who lost their salvation as eternal IN-securists teach, then we have a contradiction because the writer of Hebrews in verse 10 said "sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all" (Hebrews 10:10) and in verse 14, we read, "perfected for all time those who are sanctified." (Hebrews 10:14) So in Hebrews 10:10, we clearly read ..WE have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. In Hebrews 10:14, we read - For by one offering He has perfected for all time THOSE who are sanctified. To go from sanctified back to un-sanctified would be in contradiction here.

*NOWHERE in the context does it specifically say the person who "trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant" was "saved" and/or "lost their salvation." The reference to "the blood of the covenant that sanctified him" in verse 29 "on the surface" appears to be referring to a Christian, but this overlooks the fact that the word translated "sanctified" (which is the verb form of the adjective "holy") which means "set apart," and doesn't necessarily refer to salvation.

Strong's Concordance
hagiazó: to make holy, consecrate, sanctify
Original Word: ἁγιάζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: hagiazó
Phonetic Spelling: (hag-ee-ad'-zo)
Definition: to make holy, consecrate, sanctify
Usage: I make holy, treat as holy, set apart as holy, sanctify, hallow, purify.

In 1 Corinthians 7:14, Paul uses it to specifically refer to non-Christians who are "sanctified" or "set apart" by their believing spouse (and by this Paul does not mean that they are saved). A non-Christian can be "set apart" from other non-Christians without experiencing salvation as Paul explained. So the word "sanctified" means to be "set apart." If the word "sanctified" simply meant "saved" in every case, then you would have to say that the seventh day was saved (Genesis 2:3), the tabernacle was saved (Exodus 29:43), Moses saved the people after coming down off the mountain (Exodus 19:14), the priests and the Levites saved themselves (1 Chronicles 15:14), the Father saved the Son (John 10:36), the Son saved Himself (John 17:19) and many other things that do not line up with scripture.

In verse 39, the writer of Hebrews sets up the CONTRAST that makes it clear to me that he was referring to make believers/nominal Christians, not saved people: But WE are not of those who draw back to perdition, but OF THOSE who believe to the saving of the soul. Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition.

So after considering the CONTEXT, it seems most likely that "he was sanctified" should be understood in the sense of someone who had been "set apart" or identified as a professing believer among Hebrew Christians, but later renounces his identification with these other Hebrew believers, by rejecting the "knowledge of the truth" that he had received, and trampling under foot the work and the person of Christ himself. This gives evidence that his identification with the Hebrew Christian community of believers was only superficial and that he was not a genuine believer.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

@justbyfaith

I find it somewhat revealing how you tie salvation to believing Jesus is God based on one scripture that doesn’t say so; and call into question plain verses that absolutely tie salvation on them.

 

[FHII]

So if you forsake the assembling of your selves together you loose your salvation?

But all other willful sins are okay?

Do you know how foolish that sounds???

Yea, I know, right? Crazy! But that's what it says!

 

[CadyandZoe]

So, teachers have degrees of reward but other people don't?

You said it yourself. The parable of the laborers indicates that all those who follow Jesus will get the same reward. But let's go back to the Corinthian passage. What exactly is the reward Paul has in mind?

Isn't the teacher's "reward" the durability of his work? Recall that Paul is drawing an analogy between the construction of a temple, and the forming, assembling of the gospel, which is the message of salvation by the resurrection and ascension of Jesus Christ. Paul is the master builder who laid this concept as his foundation. Apollos and other teachers are building on that foundation.

Later in his argument, he expands his analogy to include the people of God. The work of Paul and Apollos involves more than the assemblage of a corpus of writings centered on the topic of the gospel message. These men are responsible for the training and education of the saints, unifying the entire church under the full knowledge of Jesus Christ. And in that sense, these men are building the temple of God.

In the end, the local pastor will see whether he contributed to the project or not. If he built on the foundation with durable materials, then not only will his teaching survive, those in his local church will survive. The survival of his teaching and his church is his reward.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Yea, I know, right? Crazy! But that's what it says!

That is not what it says. What is crazy is how you have perverted that verse.

 

[justbyfaith]

BOOK(S).

Rev 20:
[12] And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

All men shall stand before Judgement.
The EVIDENCE "FOR AND AGAINST" every man, IS according TO, the "INFORMATION"...
IN or NOT IN "GODS....BOOK(S).

Gods BOOK of LIFE- records the name of EVERY man ever Naturally Born.
* A man who REJECTS GOD, has his NAME "BLOTTED OUT".
No Name, No man for God to CLAIM.

The LAMBS BOOK OF LIFE- records the name of EVERY man who Accepted Christ Jesus' Offering and RECEIVED the Lords GIFT of SALVATION.
This man NAME- NOT BLOTTED OUT of Gods Book of LIFE.
This man- Heard of Jesus, ACCEPTED His OFFER of Salvation, and that man's NAME "ENTERED" /written in the Lambs Book of Life.
A mans NAME IN THE Lambs Book of Life can NEVER BE BLOTTED OUT.
(Once Saved, Saved FOREVER).

Gods BOOK of TREASURES.
THESE are Records of Every mans WORKS.
ALL WORKS a man has ever done in his entire life (saved or unsaved).
These "WORKS" are JUDGED.
ALL works that DID NOT GLORIFY GOD, are BURNED.

No unsaved man CAN ACCOMPLISH works to glorify God.

Saved men Do all kinds of words that do Not glorify God.

Only a Saved man CAN do works to Glorify God.

There SHALL be ... BILLIONS of works, by saved and unsaved men...BURNED.

The Works of a Saved man, THAT GLORIFIED God, shall be works rewarded...BY GOD...
(IF a man did NOT reward the man).
Meaning if a man did works to glorify God, and the man himself be given and take credit ... receive a ceremony, plack, trophy, ribbon blah, blah.... for his works....THAT IS his Reward, and no other reward for THAT works will be given that man, from God.)

All who will dwell on the face of the earth will not have their names written in the Lamb's Book of Life (Revelation 13:8).

The Lamb is God....so the Lamb's Book of Life is God's Book of Life.

 

[justbyfaith]

If it’s in your power to do so (if you own a home) and willfully ignore the calling and opportunity; the Lord will say this to you:

Matthew 25:41-43
[41] Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: [42] For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: [43] I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

They must be lame and blind or else you aren't saved?

 

[FHII]

That is not what it says. What is crazy is how you have perverted that verse.

Oh really? I think it says we should provoke one another to good works and not forsake the assembling of ourselves.

What do you think it means?

 

[Taken]

Just tell me, is the writer of Hebrews saved?

Since you INSIST on Deflecting, I will continue to trust, you have NO Scripture to support your standing AGAINST OSAS.

So you want to KNOW IF the writer of Hebrews was SAVED...

Identify the WRITER OF HEBREWS, so I know WHO you are wondering IS Saved.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Since you INSIST on Deflecting, I will continue to trust, you have NO Scripture to support your standing AGAINST OSAS.

So you want to KNOW IF the writer of Hebrews was SAVED...

Identify the WRITER OF HEBREWS, so I know WHO you are wondering IS Saved.

^^^DEFLECTION.

 

[justbyfaith]

If the word 'sanctified' in Hebrews 10:29 is used to describe saved people who lost their salvation as eternal IN-securists teach, then we have a contradiction because the writer of Hebrews in verse 10 said "sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all" (Hebrews 10:10) and in verse 14, we read, "perfected for all time those who are sanctified." (Hebrews 10:14) So in Hebrews 10:10, we clearly read ..WE have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. In Hebrews 10:14, we read - For by one offering He has perfected for all time THOSE who are sanctified. To go from sanctified back to un-sanctified would be in contradiction here.

So, the question then would be, have I myself been personally sanctified so that I have been perfected for ever? Here, the term sanctified means "made holy".

It may even be that in Hebrews 10:29, a hypothetical situation is set forth, in which someone who has been made holy loses their holiness...it would seem that in the technical sense, a person can begin to walk again in sin and therefore would lose their holiness.

For the sanctified individual who has laid hold of the promise in Hebrews 10:14, I would say that they cannot lose their (practical) holiness.

So, the deciding factor that differentiates Hebrews 10:14 from Hebrews 10:29 is whether the person has faith in the promise of Hebrews 10:14.

For in Hebrews 11:33, we find that promises are there for the obtaining; but that they are not obtained except by faith.

So then, if someone is sanctified (Hebrews 10:29) but has not laid faith in the promise of Hebrews 10:14, and if because of that, they count the blood which sanctified them to be common or unholy, and sin willfully after having come to the knowledge of the truth, it should be clear that no sacrifice for sins remains for them; and it should also be clear from the context (Hebrews 10:12) that the sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross is a sacrifice for sins.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Just tell me, is the writer of Hebrews saved?

And if he is, why does he include himself with this statement with regards to the danger of willful sin?:

Hebrews 10:26-27
[26] For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, [27] But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Did the writer of Hebrews just receive “knowledge” without being saved?

Try not to deflect.

We need to be cautious with language like we see in Hebrews 10:26-27. Conditional statements don't necessarily convey contingency.

Suppose the family is leaving on a jet toward their vacation spot, when the daughter turns to her father and says, "Dad, what would happen if the wings fell off the plane?" "Well, honey, if the wings were to fall off the plane then the plane wouldn't be able to fly."

Does father actually believe it possible that the wings would fall off? Is father saying to daughter, "You are right to worry, honey because wings fall off airplanes all the time"? No, father is simply answering the question from a technical point of view. Do planes need wings to fly? Yes. Can they fly without wings, no? Father will probably go on to point out to daughter that millions of flights take place everyday and none of these have lost their wings in flight.

Hebrews 10:26, taken in isolation, is like the father's technical answer above. It is true that if we keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins. That is factually true. Nonetheless, Paul's purpose here is not to inform unbelievers about the coming judgment. Rather, his purpose is to encourage believers to continue on the path they have chosen. Paul's argument is something like this.

You don't need to go looking for another way to be saved. (verse 26) You have all the knowledge you need. What you need is endurance. (verse 36) and we are confident that you will endure. (verse 39)

 

[justbyfaith]

Identify the WRITER OF HEBREWS, so I know WHO you are wondering IS Saved.

A holy man of God (2 Peter 1:21 (kjv)).

 

[Michiah-Imla]

What do you think it means?

I don’t think anything.

I just listen to the scriptures.

You are extrapolating out of those scriptures what you want to extrapolate; you are not receiving those scriptures with a pure mind.

 

[Taken]

All who will dwell on the face of the earth will not have their names written in the Lamb's Book of Life (Revelation 13:8).

No kidding. RAPTURE!

The Lamb is God....so the Lamb's Book of Life is God's Book of Life.

Sharing your "therefore" opinion is not relevant.

EX/ 32'
[33] And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

Pss 69:
[28] Let them be out of the book of the living, . (The natural LIVING can be blotted out)!

and not be written with the righteous.
(The names of the RIGHTEOUS are Written in the Lambs Book of Life).

Certainly you must know the RIGHTEOUS are MADE righteous by Receiving the Gift of Salvation and THEN written in (forever) the Lambs Book of Life.

If you change the ORDER and WAY Knowledge of Scripture...you end up with a presumptious false understanding.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

In regards to Hebrews 10:26, to "sin willfully" in the Greek carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is continuous action, a matter of practice. Now we don't walk along our daily life and "accidentally" fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows a ongoing, willful, habitual action. The unrighteous practice sin (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21); not the righteous, who are born of God. (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9) *Hermeneutics.

If the word 'sanctified' in Hebrews 10:29 is used to describe saved people who lost their salvation as eternal IN-securists teach, then we have a contradiction because the writer of Hebrews in verse 10 said "sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all" (Hebrews 10:10) and in verse 14, we read, "perfected for all time those who are sanctified." (Hebrews 10:14) So in Hebrews 10:10, we clearly read ..WE have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. In Hebrews 10:14, we read - For by one offering He has perfected for all time THOSE who are sanctified. To go from sanctified back to un-sanctified would be in contradiction here.

*NOWHERE in the context does it specifically say the person who "trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant" was "saved" and/or "lost their salvation." The reference to "the blood of the covenant that sanctified him" in verse 29 "on the surface" appears to be referring to a Christian, but this overlooks the fact that the word translated "sanctified" (which is the verb form of the adjective "holy") which means "set apart," and doesn't necessarily refer to salvation.

Strong's Concordance
hagiazó: to make holy, consecrate, sanctify
Original Word: ἁγιάζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: hagiazó
Phonetic Spelling: (hag-ee-ad'-zo)
Definition: to make holy, consecrate, sanctify
Usage: I make holy, treat as holy, set apart as holy, sanctify, hallow, purify.

In 1 Corinthians 7:14, Paul uses it to specifically refer to non-Christians who are "sanctified" or "set apart" by their believing spouse (and by this Paul does not mean that they are saved). A non-Christian can be "set apart" from other non-Christians without experiencing salvation as Paul explained. So the word "sanctified" means to be "set apart." If the word "sanctified" simply meant "saved" in every case, then you would have to say that the seventh day was saved (Genesis 2:3), the tabernacle was saved (Exodus 29:43), Moses saved the people after coming down off the mountain (Exodus 19:14), the priests and the Levites saved themselves (1 Chronicles 15:14), the Father saved the Son (John 10:36), the Son saved Himself (John 17:19) and many other things that do not line up with scripture.

In verse 39, the writer of Hebrews sets up the CONTRAST that makes it clear to me that he was referring to make believers/nominal Christians, not saved people: But WE are not of those who draw back to perdition, but OF THOSE who believe to the saving of the soul. Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition.

So after considering the CONTEXT, it seems most likely that "he was sanctified" should be understood in the sense of someone who had been "set apart" or identified as a professing believer among Hebrew Christians, but later renounces his identification with these other Hebrew believers, by rejecting the "knowledge of the truth" that he had received, and trampling under foot the work and the person of Christ himself. This gives evidence that his identification with the Hebrew Christian community of believers was only superficial and that he was not a genuine believer.

^^^^ A fine example of what this scripture warns against:

Romans 16:17-18
[17] ...mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. [18] For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

 

[justbyfaith]

You are extrapolating out of those scriptures what you want to extrapolate; you are not receiving those scriptures with a pure mind.

Any time anyone makes "you' statements like this, I think of the principle that if anyone points their finger at someone else, they have three fingers pointing back at them; which is substantiated by Matthew 7:1-5 and Luke 6:41-42.

 

[mailmandan]

^^^^ A fine example of what this scripture warns against:

Romans 16:17-18
[17] ...mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. [18] For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

Oh the irony. You are not fooling me or any of my brothers and sisters in Christ on this forum.

 

[Taken]

^^^DEFLECTION.

Get real.
Nothing is more ridiculous than YOU completely changing the topic and then accusing Deflection.

Stop picking Scriptures that have nothing to do with the YOUR claim A man can RECEIVE SALVATION AND THEN HAVE HIS SALVATION TAKEN AWAY.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Any time anyone makes "you' statements like this, I think of the principle that if anyone points their finger at someone else, they have three fingers pointing back at them; which is substantiated by Matthew 7:1-5 and Luke 6:41-42.

I have pulled the mote out of my eye.

But thanks for your concern.