-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Marymog
Well-Known Member
- Mar 7, 2017
- 11,946
- 1,795
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
Ummm...OK.....I guess I don't have a perfect memory like you. But what I do have is grace.
Thank you for your time!
Marymog
Well-Known Member
- Mar 7, 2017
- 11,946
- 1,795
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
Hey Behold.
Why do you disagree with Jesus? Except a man be born of water and Spirit....
Marymog
Well-Known Member
- Mar 7, 2017
- 11,946
- 1,795
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
Nope, I am not fascinated by water baptism. I simply do what He tells me to do? Do you?
Marymog
Well-Known Member
- Mar 7, 2017
- 11,946
- 1,795
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
Hey Behold.
The Church doesn't teach that "water touching your body can recreate your Spirit inside you". That's what you THINK it teaches. Soooooooo you can put that cute little false accusation, along with your green pigs, to rest.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Your response to me was that it was my private interpretation
Forgive me if I do not wish to waste my time anymore knowing how you will answer.
If you had grace you would not tell people how they have their own interpretation and you have the churches interpretation.
you would show more grace
Hi Mary,
Just have to break in here. When Christ was speaking with Nicodemus about being born "again"...there is not one thing about water baptism in the whole of the conversation. We are born of water in the "natural", then of the Spirit when we repent and receive Him as Lord and Savior. Yes, I do think all should be water baptized as Jesus was water baptized because Jesus said: His baptism is "fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness". I see that as following His lead...of course He did not have to repent, but we do.
John 3:4-6
4 "Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."
6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."
Being "naturally" born is of water and that is the first birth from mom.
Being spiritually born is from Christ and the Spirit.
JMHO :)
So, I see nothing of water baptism here.
What say you?
Marymog
Well-Known Member
- Mar 7, 2017
- 11,946
- 1,795
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
He Charlie.
Now you have me confused.
:Earlier, while referring to passages in Acts 10, you said "So much for the necessity of water baptism to be saved!" Now you are saying, "If you refuse to be water baptized, I would say you were never saved." To me, and maybe I am misunderstanding you, those two statements are at odds with each other.
Also, I asked many questions in my post of which none of them you addressed. Which of those questions was a useless question?
Mary
He Charlie.
Now you have me confused.
Earlier, while referring to passages in Acts 10, you said "So much for the necessity of water baptism to be saved!" Now you are saying, "If you refuse to be water baptized, I would say you were never saved." To me, and maybe I am misunderstanding you, those two statements are at odds with each other.
Also, I asked many questions in my post of which none of them you addressed. Which of those questions was a useless question?
Mary
No controversy, if a person doesn't understand the purpose of water baptism and doesn't partake of it, most certainly he doesn't understand God's requirement for salvation even though he says he is saved.
Man is not saved in any way when he is water baptized, Christ commands it as public proof that we have been saved by demonstration of the death, burial and resurrections in water, which has already been done by the Holy Spirit in the heart when you believed.
It is the baptism into Christ, the spiritual rebirth of man, demonstrated by water baptism as a visible reenactment of your salvation.
Marymog
Well-Known Member
- Mar 7, 2017
- 11,946
- 1,795
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
Hi Nancy,
I appreciate your input. After reading your interpretation of those passages I have a few follow up questions.
Why would Jesus need to stipulate that biological birth is a condition for heaven? After all, weren't all those hearing his message already born? And if one is never born they don't have the opportunity to receive the Spirit. Right?
Another problem your interpretation is that “born of water” is not the typical language that Jesus uses for biological birth. Jesus, in response to Nicodemus’s query about entering again into his mother’s womb (natural birth), says, “That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit” (John 3:6). As you can see Jesus’ language for natural birth is “born of flesh,” not “born of water”. According to your interpretation of the "born again of water" passage Jesus would be a confusing teacher because he talks about natural birth in two different ways. I don't think he is a confusing teacher.
Another problem with your interpretation is that you didn't take all of John in context. The epistle John starts out telling us about Jesus baptism (with water) and the Spirit descended upon him. In the middle Jesus is telling Nicodemus we must be born of water and Spirit. At the end the Apostles go out right after that visit with Nicodemus and start baptizing (with water) which brings the Spirit upon those being baptized.
Beginning: water = baptism
Middle: Water = baptism
End: Water = baptism
But your interpretation suggest:
Beginning: Water = baptism
Middle: Water = birth fluid
End: Water = baptism
That make no sense to this girl.
Marymog
Well-Known Member
- Mar 7, 2017
- 11,946
- 1,795
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
EG,
Ok....Thanks for that info. It's not bringing back any memory. But none the less....thank you.
I don't see how I would be showing grace if I didn't say to people "your interpretation of that passage is...."! I assume it is their interpretation since they are the one writing it. If it isn't their interpretation shouldn't they correct me?
Are you saying when I told you that it was your private interpretation I wasn't showing you grace? Did it offend you when I said that it was your private interpretation?
Mary
Marymog
Well-Known Member
- Mar 7, 2017
- 11,946
- 1,795
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
Thanks Charlie.
I can't find the passage from Scripture where Christ commands us to get baptized in public. Would you share it with me please? Thank you in advance...Mary
You know where it's at! But again, it's not for the reasons you state!
Wish we could get along and not argue like this, but there's no way around it.
But don't take it personal from me, I assure you it's not meant that way!
We just disagree on one of the most important issues in scripture!
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
1. You can't offend me, If you think you can, Stop puffing yourself up. Your church does not even offend me, It does not have that power. I do not protest your church, I do not even consider it a church. Does that offend you? Not that it matters,, I could care one way or the other. Thats not my purpose here. My purpose is to have conversations about the word of God
2. when you tell me that, You show me there is no need to even try to discuss anything with you anymore. Because in the end, that is what you answer will be. You can not discuss the word with people who think they have the truth no matter what,
Philip James
Well-Known Member
Can one who knowingly rejects the Grace of God still be saved?
Do you not think that a much worse punishment is due the one who has contempt for the Son of God, considers unclean the covenant-blood by which he was consecrated, and insults the spirit of grace?
Peace!
They received the Holy Ghost and then received baptism in Jesus' Name for the remission (forgiveness) of sins.
Going under the water and coming up out of it wrought for them remission (forgiveness) of sins. That they received the Holy Spirit beforehand only made it a guarantee that they would go under the water as soon as they got the opportunity.
My church calls that blasphemy, believing water washes away sin instead of the Blood of the Lamb.
Now if you were to say that the Blood washed away the sin immediately when they believed, and then water baptism symbolized the washing away of sin, I would be inclined to agree.
In order to keep your theology you have to change the wording of Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39 in order to make it fit your theology; and that is one step worse than eisegeting the text.
Already explained Acts 2:38 but nothing is going to change your mind. You're in the water cult to the eyebrows.
Not going to beat my head against the wall until I have a headache for no reason at all!
Similar threads
