Discerning : The Water Cults

[Eternally Grateful]

So this is where our conversation began. We have gone full circle. Has nothing been achieved? Read it carefully to the end.

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38 KJV)
.

Yes

And if you remember, I also said that that interpretation of that passage is not correct. That peter did not say those words. So as you can see. Since you did not seem to want to discuss what I mean by this. we are at a crossroads. And your right, Nothing has been achieved, You still are claiming peter said something he never said

 

[Cooper]

Yes

And if you remember, I also said that that interpretation of that passage is not correct. That peter did not say those words. So as you can see. Since you did not seem to want to discuss what I mean by this. we are at a crossroads. And your right, Nothing has been achieved, You still are claiming peter said something he never said

I have looked at the Greek and what people say, and as far as I can tell, it is the people who are in error, not the scriptures.
.

 

[justbyfaith]

Yes

And if you remember, I also said that that interpretation of that passage is not correct. That peter did not say those words. So as you can see. Since you did not seem to want to discuss what I mean by this. we are at a crossroads. And your right, Nothing has been achieved, You still are claiming peter said something he never said

In order to have your interpretation, you have to attack the veracity of the kjv...

And in doing so, I believe that you are heaping to yourself a teacher in the translator of whatever Bible you are using that translates it the way you want it to be translated, to tell you what your itching ears want to hear (1 Timothy 4:3).

 

[Philip James]

Jesus told you in John 3 and John 4 and John 6 paul told you

Hello EG,

John 3
We must be born of water and the Spirit.
Baptism, check

John 4
We will worship Him in Spirit and in Truth.

The sacrifice of the Mass (Mal 1:11), check

John 6
Eat the food that the Son of Man gives us.
Eucharist, check

Rom 10

Call on the name of the Lord and be saved,

Check

Eph 2
We are saved by grace through faith,

Its all Jesus! Check!

All faithful Catholics meet these criteria... I'm starting to think you have no idea what we belive...

Peace be with you!

 

[Philip James]

Did the baby believe in God... Did the baby ask to be baptised of their own free will? Was it the infants decision? Had they made a choice for Christ?
.

Hello Cooper,

Do you not believe that our Father will give life to our children if we ask it of Him?

Thanks be to God, that my mother, by faith, procured for me this precious gift...

Jesus has been my Lord, my Saviour, my King, my God, since before I can remember..

Telling faithful Catholics that they must make a choice for Christ, is like reminding us to breathe..

By His Grace, we live that choice every
day!

Peace be with you!

 

[justbyfaith]

@Philip James,

I have to say that you carry a positive witness for your faith.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I have looked at the Greek and what people say, and as far as I can tell, it is the people who are in error, not the scriptures.
.

You looked at he greek?

Please tell me what you found.

The word repent and the word baptized. In the greek. what type of words are they?

 

[justbyfaith]

You looked at he greek?

Please tell me what you found.

The word repent and the word baptized. In the greek. what type of words are they?

It is the educated Greek and Hebrew scholars who are like the educated scribes and Pharisees of Jesus' day, in this day.

The educated scribes and Pharisees rejected Jesus, while the common people heard Him gladly.

I prefer to be of the common people who trusts that what I read in English is God's unadulterated word to me.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Hello EG,

John 3
We must be born of water and the Spirit.
Baptism, check

No baptism, The word baptism is not there. And when jesus answered the question, he said how. Whoever believes will have eternal life. If baptism was required. Jesus would have said believed AND be baptized, He left it out for a reason. because it is not required

John 4
We will worship Him in Spirit and in Truth.

The sacrifice of the Mass (Mal 1:11), check

John 4. Jesus aid, If you would have asked, he would have given living water, flowing to eternal life. That living water is the HS, No baptism mentioned.

Once again Your church is in error

John 6
Eat the food that the Son of Man gives us.
Eucharist, check

Jesus said whoever ate would NEVER die would LIVE forever. Would NEVER hunger or thirst, Is ASSURED to be raised on the last day, and HAS eternal life

The eucharist promises non of those things.

Also. No baptism

Rom 10

Call on the name of the Lord and be saved,

Check

Call on the name only. No baptism, No eucharist, No sacraments of any type.

Eph 2
We are saved by grace through faith,

Its all Jesus! Check!

Then why do you add baptism, Eucharist, Confession?

And paul said faith alone no works. Why do you add all those works to faith?

How can it be all jesus if it is Jesus PLUS?

All faithful Catholics meet these criteria... I'm starting to think you have no idea what we belive...

Peace be with you!

I know exactly what you believe my friend. If I did not. I would not be trying to show you the error of your church

 

[Cooper]

Hello Cooper,

Do you not believe that our Father will give life to our children if we ask it of Him?

Thanks be to God, that my mother, by faith, procured for me this precious gift...

Jesus has been my Lord, my Saviour, my King, my God, since before I can remember..

Telling faithful Catholics that they must make a choice for Christ, is like reminding us to breathe..

By His Grace, we live that choice every
day!

Peace be with you!

Of course God is the giver of life. A babe in arms already has physical life, but not eternal life. That only comes when we surrender our life to him, but we can only make that choice when we reach the age of understanding. Total submersion in water is when we publicly declare our submission to God, arising out of the water a new creation in Christ, blessed with the Holy Spirit as was Jesus at his baptism. A newborn baby cannot reach out to God, and in later life may not want to. As it is, they have been robbed of that choice, until they are mature enough to decide for themselves, in which case they can join a church that practises full immersion. Please do not let yourself be fooled into thinking that sprinkling someone who has not got a clue what is happening, is baptism. May God bless you, save you and keep you, amen.
.

 

[Cooper]

In order to have your interpretation, you have to attack the veracity of the kjv...

And in doing so, I believe that you are heaping to yourself a teacher in the translator of whatever Bible you are using that translates it the way you want it to be translated, to tell you what your itching ears want to hear (1 Timothy 4:3).

It is not just the KJV, all the other dozen or so translations I looked at agree with the King James.

I cannot help thinking that people have not made a full commitment to God and are looking for excuses not to totally commit their life to Him. It is like saying, "Thank you, God, I am eternally grateful to you for what you have done, but if I am to follow you all the days of my life, these are my terms and conditions." That is not how it is.
.

 

[Marymog]

No one in history has repented in the heart at the time of baptism.

Repenting of your sins must come first and that is when man is saved.

Then he is water baptized. It's as plain as the nose on your face in Acts 10.

So once again jbf, we firmly disagree!

Hey Charlie,

You are right. Repenting of your sins comes first. Then we are water baptized. After those two things we shall receive the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38).

What happens if one only repents and doesn't get baptized?

Mary

 

[Marymog]

Yes

And if you remember, I also said that that interpretation of that passage is not correct. That peter did not say those words. So as you can see. Since you did not seem to want to discuss what I mean by this. we are at a crossroads. And your right, Nothing has been achieved, You still are claiming peter said something he never said

Hi EG,

I was scrolling thru and reading various posts. This one caught my attention.

I am curious. Can you enlighten me how Peter did not say those words in Acts 2:38

Thank you.

 

[Charlie24]

Hey Charlie,

You are right. Repenting of your sins comes first. Then we are water baptized. After those two things we shall receive the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38).

What happens if one only repents and doesn't get baptized?

Mary

I've never known a situation where someone repents and refuses to be water baptized! That's a moot question!

It's not water baptism that's in question, it's the purpose of it!

In Acts 10:44-48 it is plain to see that they believed and received the Holy Spirit and then Peter asked if anyone could deny water baptism for these who have received the Holy Spirit as well as we have. Then they were water baptized.

So much for the necessity of water baptism to be saved!

 

[Philip James]

Then why do you add baptism, Eucharist, Confession?

And paul said faith alone no works. Why do you add all those works to faith?

How can it be all jesus if it is Jesus PLUS?

Hello EG,

Who's work do you think the Sacraments are?

It is Jesus who baptizes
It is Jesus who chrismates
It is Jesus who consecrates
It is Jesus who marries
It is Jesus who ordains
It is Jesus who reconciles
It is Jesus who annoints

Brother, it's all Jesus, pouring out His Grace on us...

I know exactly what you believe my friend.

Apparently not as your above questions demonstrate ;)


Peace!

 

[Behold]

Hello EG,

Who's work do you think the Sacraments are?

It is Jesus who baptizes
It is Jesus who chrismates
It is Jesus who consecrates
It is Jesus who marries
It is Jesus who ordains
It is Jesus who reconciles
It is Jesus who annoints

Brother, it's all Jesus, pouring out His Grace on us...



Apparently not as your above questions demonstrate ;)


Peace!

But its not Jesus who teaches that you are "born again by water". That is the "cult of the virgin" and their demonic bible the Douay Rheims that teaches this spiritual perversion.

Its not Jesus who teaches that "if any man say that salvation is by faith alone without works and faith is the sole Justification, then let that man be anathema"......So, that would be Paul the Apostle who the "cult of the Virgin", just defined as "cursed of God"

Its not Jesus who teaches that the "cult of the Virgin's" Priest's have magical power (transubstantiation) to turn a cookie and juice into the Literal blood and body of Christ that you chew up and swallow.

 

[Behold]

What I am contending for is that God can indeed save people with Acts 2:38-39 salvation.

If you can just understand the verses correctly, then you're good to go.

Here are the verses, as you should understand them..

REPENT 1st, = turn from unbelief (REPENT of unbelief), and God will accept your faith = Born again.

then....

get water baptized.

 

[Marymog]

I've never known a situation where someone repents and refuses to be water baptized! That's a moot question!

It's not water baptism that's in question, it's the purpose of it!

In Acts 10:44-48 it is plain to see that they believed and received the Holy Spirit and then Peter asked if anyone could deny water baptism for these who have received the Holy Spirit as well as we have. Then they were water baptized.

So much for the necessity of water baptism to be saved!

Thanks Charlie.

The definition of a "moot question" is A point, aspect, or topic that is no longer relevant or can no longer be questioned or debated.

Based on that definition are you suggesting that since you personally have "never known a situation where someone repents and refuses to be water baptized" we can no longer discuss this? Of the billions of people who have been baptized over the last 2,000 years YOU personally don't know "a situation where someone repents and refuses to be water baptized" therefor this discussion is over? Hmmmm.......OK!! I guess we are Moving on??? Discussion over???

I recognize and I am not denying your life experience of never knowing a situation where someone repented and refused to be water baptized. As long as you will recognize and not deny my life experience of personally witnessing Christians at the direction of their pastors saying the sinners prayer, also known as the prayer of repentance, and never getting baptized believing that by just saying the sinners prayer they were saved.

In regard to Acts 10:44-48 did you know that later on in Acts 11 that event was elaborated on by Peter?

Read Acts 11:1-3 and 15-18, put it in context with 10:44-48 and you will see that what you were taught OR what you think is so "plain to see" is not so "plain to see". ;)

What is fascinating to me is that Peter ordered them to be baptized even after they received the Holy Spirit. Yet your theory is that baptism wasn't necessary for salvation since they already received the Holy Spirit? Is that what you are suggesting?

It seems to me you have been taught that water baptism is not necessary to be saved. Scripture says "baptism now saves you". Should I believe you or Scripture? Jesus gives a commission to the Apostles: Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. What happens if we disobey Jesus and don't baptize?

Bible Study Mary

 

[Charlie24]

Thanks Charlie.

The definition of a "moot question" is A point, aspect, or topic that is no longer relevant or can no longer be questioned or debated.

Based on that definition are you suggesting that since you personally have "never known a situation where someone repents and refuses to be water baptized" we can no longer discuss this? Of the billions of people who have been baptized over the last 2,000 years YOU personally don't know "a situation where someone repents and refuses to be water baptized" therefor this discussion is over? Hmmmm.......OK!! I guess we are Moving on??? Discussion over???

I recognize and I am not denying your life experience of never knowing a situation where someone repented and refused to be water baptized. As long as you will recognize and not deny my life experience of personally witnessing Christians at the direction of their pastors saying the sinners prayer, also known as the prayer of repentance, and never getting baptized believing that by just saying the sinners prayer they were saved.

In regard to Acts 10:44-48 did you know that later on in Acts 11 that event was elaborated on by Peter?

Read Acts 11:1-3 and 15-18, put it in context with 10:44-48 and you will see that what you were taught OR what you think is so "plain to see" is not so "plain to see". ;)

What is fascinating to me is that Peter ordered them to be baptized even after they received the Holy Spirit. Yet your theory is that baptism wasn't necessary for salvation since they already received the Holy Spirit? Is that what you are suggesting?

It seems to me you have been taught that water baptism is not necessary to be saved. Scripture says "baptism now saves you". Should I believe you or Scripture? Jesus gives a commission to the Apostles: Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. What happens if we disobey Jesus and don't baptize?

Bible Study Mary

If you refuse to be water baptized, I would say you were never saved.

It is a clear commandment of Christ to be water baptized.

BUT NOT FOR THE REASONS YOU HAVE STATED1

So don't play games and phycology to bring a useless question into the conversation.

 

[Behold]

What is fascinating to me is that Peter ordered them to be baptized even after they received the Holy Spirit. Yet your theory is that baptism wasn't necessary for salvation since they already received the Holy Spirit? Is that what you are suggesting?
y

You are fascinated by water baptism.
Is God?
No.

So, here is what he is explaining to you.
He is explaining to you that if a person has Received the Holy Spirit, then the person is Saved.
You can't have Jesus in you, and the Holy Spirit in you, and God in you.........= you can't BECOME a "temple of the Holy Spirit", UNLESS you are born again.
Water is not involved.
Only the Holy Spirit, and the Person is involved, as God performs the new birth inside you, with no water being involved.

The day that water touching your body can recreate your Spirit inside you, is the day that green pigs can fly.