Doubting Thomas

[GerhardEbersoehn]

What did Thomas mean at John 20:28? - Part 1

Thomas had said (verse :25) that unless something happened he would “not believe.” What was it that Thomas refused to believe? Was it that he refused to believe that Jesus was equally God with the Father? There is certainly no hint of this before or after Thomas’ statement at John 20:28.

If the disciples had learned, upon seeing the resurrected Jesus, that he was God, certainly they would have indicated this! But notice, neither before nor after receiving Holy Spirit v.22) did they kneel or do any act of worship such as one would certainly do upon becoming aware of being in the presence of God!

Notice that the disciples who had seen Jesus earlier did not tell Thomas that Jesus was God v.25)! This is an incredible oversight if they had really believed they had seen God! Certainly, if they had discovered that Jesus was really God when they saw him resurrected, they would have talked of nothing else!

If, on the other hand, they had already known that Jesus was God even before seeing his resurrected form, then Thomas, too, would have already known about it and certainly would not have meant: “Unless I see ... the print of nails [etc.] ... I will not believe [Jesus is God].”

No, the context of John 20:24, 25, and 29 shows that Thomas refused to believe that Jesus had been resurrected from the dead. (See footnote for John 20:8 in The NIV Study Bible, Zondervan, 1985: “John did not say what [the disciple who saw the empty tomb of Jesus] believed, but it must have been that Jesus was resurrected.” - Also see Barclay’s The Daily Study Bible Series: The Gospel of John, Revised Edition, Vol. 2, p. 267, and pp. 275, 276.)

Furthermore, Jesus’ statements before and after Thomas’ exclamation (“my Lord and my God!”) show not only that Jesus wanted Thomas to believe that he had been resurrected to life but that he could not possibly be God!!

Jesus’ command to Thomas to literally touch his wounds and actually see his hands proves that he meant, “See, I am the same man you saw die, but now I am alive ... be believing that I have been resurrected to life” (not, “see, these wounds prove I am God ... be believing that I am God”).

Notice that the reason given for Thomas to “be believing” is that he can see Jesus’ hands and their wounds. Likewise, after Thomas says “My Lord and my God,” Jesus reaffirms that Thomas now believes (as did the other disciples after seeing - Jn. 20:20) that Jesus has been resurrected (not that he is God) “because you have seen me” v.29).

Certainly Jesus wouldn’t mean, “you believe I am God because you can see me.” Instead, this is proof that Jesus, Thomas, John, and the other disciples did not believe Jesus was equally God with the Father! How? Because John himself has made it manifestly clear that “no one [no human] has ever seen God” - 1 John 4:12, RSV. (See the SF study; also OMN 3-5.)

“For the NT God is utterly invisible (Jn. 6:46; 1 Tim. 1:17; 6:16; Col. 1:15). ‘God does not become visible; He is revealed,’ ... yet the resurrection narratives especially stress that the risen Christ is visible.” - The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, p. 518, Vol. 3, Zondervan, 1986.

Therefore, since no man has ever directly seen God (who is the Father only - John 5:37, 6:46; 17:1, 3) but men have only indirectly “seen” God through representations such as visions, dreams, etc., Jesus is saying: “Believe I have been resurrected and that I am obviously not God because you see me directly (and even touch me so you can be sure I’m not a vision or an indirect representation).”

It cannot get more tragic when sound facts are abused to 'prove' CERTAIN ABOMINABLE GROUNDLESS PATHETIC UNTRUTH AND HERESY. <<Furthermore, Jesus’ statements before and after Thomas’ exclamation (“my Lord and my God!”) show not only that Jesus wanted Thomas to believe that he had been resurrected to life but that he could not possibly be God!!>>

Another despicable troll on the prowl after innocent unawares victims!

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Whatever contradicts the Word of God should be instantly resisted as diabolical.
John Bunyan prisoner for Jesus Christ Saviour Lord and God

 

[Joseph77]

It cannot get more tragic when sound facts are abused to 'prove' CERTAIN ABOMINABLE GROUNDLESS PATHETIC UNTRUTH AND HERESY. <<Furthermore, Jesus’ statements before and after Thomas’ exclamation (“my Lord and my God!”) show not only that Jesus wanted Thomas to believe that he had been resurrected to life but that he could not possibly be God!!>>

Another despicable troll on the prowl after innocent unawares victims!

That heresy exposed is dangerous. Everyone 'should' be already aware of it.... I did not see it there before, thanks to God it is seen and exposed now.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

But there came to my mind last night, early this morning, while I could not sleep, another way whereby Thomas also could have received confirmation for having BELIEVED the Christ by the "folds through my hands" and the "opening in my side".

Another thought just came to my mind! Was it Thomas, who, at this time of the early morning before Jesus' trial, and his disciples all having forsaken Him already, was trying to stay as near as possible to Jesus to see what would happen to Him if it could be the things the Scriptures foretold about the Passover Lamb of God?

Matthew 26:56b
Τότε οἱ μαθηταὶ πάντες ἀφέντες αὐτὸν ἔφυγον.
Then all the disciple forsook him, and fled.

Mark 14:50-52
καὶ ἀφέντες αὐτὸν ἔφυγον πάντες.
And they all forsook him, and fled.

51 Καὶ (εἷς) νεανίσκος τις συνηκολούθει (ἠκολούθησεν) αὐτῷ
And there followed him a certain young man,

περιβεβλημένος σινδόνα ἐπὶ γυμνοῦ, καὶ κρατοῦσιν αὐτόν
having a linen cloth, and the young men laid hold on him:

52 ὁ δὲ καταλιπὼν τὴν σινδόνα γυμνὸς ἔφυγεν (ἀπ’ αὐτῶν).
and he left the linen cloth, and fled from them naked.

Look at καὶ εἷς = "but one" - one of the disciples spoken of in the very verse before, who fled from Jesus! Which disciple got separated from the others who went to hide in the upper room? Thomas!

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

The passover lamb received three wounds.
1) The skin and vein next to the throat was cut. Cf. Colossians 2:19;
2) The four feet above the heels got pierced to hang over the altar;
3) The side under the short rib was cut to reach edible "flesh" roasted over the fire...
"and forthwith came there out..." dead,
cooked, "blood and water". Cf. John 19:34.
"Thou dissolvest my substance .. my bowls boiled .. my soul is poured out upon Me; the Days of Affliction have taken hold on Me." Job 30:22,27,16.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

What did Thomas Mean? - Part 2

What about the rest of the context? (1) As noted before, Thomas did not bow down, worship, etc. upon learning that it was really Jesus and saying 'my lord and my god.' He could not have just discovered that he was in the presence of God and acted the way he did! (2) It’s also obvious that Jesus did not understand Thomas to be calling him equally God with the Father in heaven. But did John, in spite of the incredible contradiction of a previous statement (like 1 John 4:12 above) at John 1:18 that “no man hath seen God at any time,” somehow think that Thomas understood Jesus to be God?

Well, no other disciple of Jesus ever made a statement to him which could honestly be construed as meaning Jesus is God! So, (3) if John had, somehow, understood Thomas’ statement that way, he certainly would have provided some follow-up clarification and emphasis in his own comments.

Surely John would have shown Thomas prostrating himself before “God” and worshiping him (but he doesn’t!). So how does John summarize this incident? - “But these were written that you may believe [Believe what? That Jesus is God? Here, then, is where it should have been written if John really believed such a thing:] that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God.” - John 20:31, RSV. (Be sure to compare 1 John 5:5)

Or, as the trinitarian The NIV Study Bible, Zondervan, 1985, states in a footnote for this scripture:

“This whole Gospel [John] is written to show the truth of Jesus’ Messiahship and to present him as the Son of God, so that the readers may believe in him.”

Obviously, neither Jesus’ response, nor Thomas’ responses (before and after his statement at John 20:28), nor John’s summation of the event at 20:31 recognizes Thomas’ statement to mean that Jesus is the only true God!

So it is clear from context that neither Jesus, nor John, (nor Thomas) considered the statement at John 20:28 to mean that Jesus is equally God with the Father. (Remember this is the same Gospel account that also records Jesus’ last prayer to the Father at John 17:1, 3: “Father,.... This is eternal life: to know thee who alone art truly God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.” - NEB. It is obvious from this scripture alone that Jesus and the writer of the Gospel of John do not believe Jesus is equally God with the Father!)

This may be, then, one of those places where the idioms of an ancient language are not completely understood by modern translators.

As the Encyclopaedia Britannica, 14th ed., vol. 13, p. 25, puts it:

"And it is not certain that even the words Thomas addressed to Jesus (Jn. 20:28) meant what they suggest in the English Version." - (Britannica article by Rev. Charles Anderson Scott, M.A., D.D. Dunn Professor of New Testament, Theological College of the Presbyterian Church of England, Cambridge.)

And John M. Creed, as Professor of Divinity at the University of Cambridge, wrote:

“‘my Lord and my God’ (Joh.xx.28) is still not quite the same as an address to Christ as being without qualification God, and it must be balanced by the words of the risen Christ himself ... (v.17): ... ‘I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.’” - The Divinity of Jesus Christ, J. M. Creed, p. 123.

Yes, think about that very carefully: After Jesus was resurrected, he continued to call the Father in heaven “my God”! (Even after he was fully restored to heaven and seated at the right hand of God - Rev. 3:2; 3:12.) So if we must insist, as many trinitarians do, that the single instance of Thomas’ saying “My God” in Jesus’ presence, with all its uncertainties, means that Jesus is superior in every way to Thomas (in essence, eternity, authority, etc.), what do Jesus’ even clearer statements that the Father is his God actually mean? -

“He who conquers, ... I will write on him the name of MY God, and the name of the city of MY God, ... and my own name.” - Rev. 3:12, RSV (Compare Rev. 14:1).

You can’t have it both ways. If Thomas’ statement (“my God”) can only mean that Jesus is ultimately superior to Thomas in all respects (as God), then Jesus’ repeated and even clearer statements that the Father is his God can only mean that the Father is ultimately superior to Jesus in all respects. If Thomas really understood that Jesus was equally God with the Father, it is certainly blasphemous for John and other inspired Bible writers to turn around and call the Father the God of the Christ! - Micah 5:4; 1 Cor. 11:3; 2 Cor. 11:31; Eph. 1:3, 17; 1 Peter 1:3.

……………

It is well-known by even trinitarian grammarians that common statements (as in English also) are frequently abbreviated, leaving out necessary words. This holds true for doxologies (praises) of God.

(27 “Then Jesus said to Thomas .... ‘Believe!’

(28 “Thomas answered, ‘My Lord and my God (be witness) [that I do believe now]!’ {Or,

following the NIV example of 1 Sam. 20:12, ‘(I swear by) my Lord and God [that I do believe]!’ or following the Septuagint example of 1 Sam 20:12. “My Lord and my God (knows that I believe)}.”

(29 “Then Jesus told him, ‘You believe because you have seen me.’” - Based on the Living

Bible translation of John 20:27-29

This may be similar to the abbreviated doxology at Ro. 9:5 which some trinitarians also take advantage of (see the AO study). That doxology is also without a critical verb and is abruptly joined to a description of Jesus. Literally, in Greek it reads: “the being over all god blessed into the ages amen.”

Even some trinitarian translators add the necessary words and punctuation to make this a clearly separated doxology to the Father: “[Jesus was born a Jew]. May God, who rules over all, be praised for ever” - GNB. (CEV: ‘I pray that God, who rules over all, will be praised forever! Amen.’ RSV: ‘God who is over all be blessed for ever. Amen.’ TLB: 'Praise God forever!' NABRE: 'God who is over all be blessed forever. Amen.' NIVSB, fn.: 'God be forever praised forever' or, 'God who is over all be forever praised!' NLV: 'May God be honored and thanked forever. Let it be so.' RSV: 'God who is over all be blessed for ever. Amen.' NEB: 'May God, supreme above all, be blessed forever!')

If so many trinitarian translators can admit this possibility for Ro. 9:5, it is not unreasonable to apply a similar interpretation of John 20:28.

................

Furthermore, in the writings of John, when using the term “Lord” in address to another person, a different form of the NT Greek word is always used instead of the form found at John 20:28 (ho kurios mou).

“The vocative is the case used in addressing a person .... κύριε [kurie] (O Lord), Θee (O God) ... are almost the only forms found in the N.T.” - pp. 14, 15, The New Testament Greek Primer, Rev. Alfred Marshall, Zondervan, 1978 printing.

This is especially true of “Lord” and “my Lord” in both the Septuagint and the New Testament. Kurie (κύριε), not kurios (κύριός), is the form used when addressing someone as “Lord” or “My Lord.” - See the KURIE study. (“God,” Θεε, however, is not so certain. In fact it is very rare in the NT which normally uses the nominative Θεὸς in address.).

We can see a good example of this vocative form, which is used in addressing a person as “Lord,” at 3 Kings 1:20, 21 (1 Kings 1:20, 21 in modern English Bibles) in the ancient Greek of the Septuagint: “And you, my Lord [κύριε μου], O King ...” - 3 Kings 1:20, Septuagint. Then at 3 Kings 1:21 we see the same person (King David) being spoken about (but not addressed) in the same terms as Jn 20:28: “And it shall come to pass, when my Lord [Ὁ κύριός μου] the king shall sleep with his fathers .... - 3 Kings 1:21, Septuagint.

We also find Thomas himself, at Jn 14:5, addressing Jesus as “Lord” by using κύριε.

And, when addressing the angel at Rev. 7:14, John himself says kurie mou (“My Lord”)![6]

There are 33 uses of kurie in the Gospel of John alone. Here are a few of them: John 9:38; 11:3, 12, 21, 27, 32, 34, 39; 13:6, 9, 25, 36, 37; 14:5. (Compare these with an actual identification of the lord: “it is the lord [kurios],” John 21:7.

Therefore, it is safe to say that when John wrote down the incident with Thomas at Jn 20:28 and used the nominative form for “My Lord” [Kurios] he was not saying that Thomas was addressing Jesus as “My Lord and my God!”

Jesus is GOD the Son of God.
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do?" Psalm 11:3

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Spurgeon or “the young man” Thomas?...
'I am not today all that I hope to be, yet I see Jesus, and that assures me that one day I shall be like Him.'

 

[marks]

This is not the response of a doubter; instead it shows that Thomas loved Jesus and was even willing to sacrifice his life for him. Thomas never doubted before the crucifixion. The Bible says nothing about his life afterward but tradition tells us he carried the gospel to India and died there as a martyr. He demonstrated strong faith both before and after this incident but we have allowed his doubts to color our perception of him. Here is a summary of his life taken from the site What Christians Want To Know — Bible Verses, Quotes, Christian Answers, Songs and More .

Thomas got a bum rap. He was no more doubting than the rest of the disciples and the only reason he doubted and the others didn’t was because they had seen the resurrected Christ. When the women came back from the empty tomb and after seeing the risen Christ, the disciples also doubted. To me, there is no doubt that Thomas was a strong believer and a powerful missionary used by God to the glory of God.

Matthew 24:26 "Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not."

Thomas was doing exactly what Jesus told them to do.

Much love!

 

[Joseph77]

But I have never heard of John being called “doubting John.” Why do people respond so differently to Thomas and John?

Tradition.

(not good)

btw, Long Ago, I read some posters who questioned if Yochanan the immerser was doubting Jesus .... I do not remember the 'answers' presented at that time. (nor the context- but it was someplace people were asking because they wanted to learn the truth, a lot different than this forum today; not any unbelievers nor scoffers back then and there. (they were not permitted nor invited - so those opposed to Jesus did not feel any attraction to come nor warm fuzzy feeling as if to make them feel "comfortable" in their fatal sin) ) .

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Psalm 78:72
68But He chose the tribe of Judah, the mount Zion which he loved. 69And he built his sanctuary like high palaces, like the earth which he hath established for ever.

70He chose David also his servant, and took him from the sheepfolds: 71From following the ewes great with young he brought him to feed Jacob his people, and Israel his inheritance.

72So He fed them according to the integrity [tom] of his heart; and guided them by the skilfulness [tebuna (bin)] of his hands.

tebuna (bin)—discretion perception mark sight

Job 19 and John 19

19All my intimate friends (disciples) abhorred me: and they whom I loved are turned against me.

20My bone cleaveth to my skin and to my flesh, and I am escaped with the skin of my teeth. 21Have pity upon me, have pity upon me, O ye my friends; for the hand of God hath touched me.

22Why do ye persecute me as God, and are not satisfied with my flesh?

23Oh that my words were now written! oh that they were printed [chaqaq – Law printed] in a book! 24That they were graven with an iron pen and lead in the rock for ever! (Cf. 2Chronicles 34:12)

25For I know that my Redeemer liveth, and that He shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: 26And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet shall I see God in my flesh : 27Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my kidneys be consumed (dead) within me. John 20:25 cf. 19:34

28But ye should say, Why persecute we him, seeing the root of the matter is found in me? 29Be ye afraid of the sword: for wrath bringeth the punishments of the sword, that ye may know there is a judgment.


So after months, yes years, another possibility becomes apparent, indicating Thomas searched the Scriptures like no other disciples did. Thomas was a Bible student, intensely and passionate. The quoted Scriptures – Thomas must have known them virtually by heart. In John 20:25 he almost verbatim quotes Job 19:26,27; Psalm 78:72 must have inspired him to find out and “understand” the Crucified Jesus in “Integrity of his heart” and “impression of his hands”.

Thomas was no ‘eye-witness’. Like all the disciples Thomas had fled and left Jesus alone to suffer and be crucified, and to die on “That Day Bone-Essential Day” of the Passover of Yahweh. He also could not have studied the Scriptures by himself to recite Job 19 in John 20:25 so exactly. How did Thomas know the application on Jesus of Nazareth? Someone acquainted with the events at the cross “At The First Night” of unleavened bread told him? Thomas must have obtained his “understanding” of the “Book” and that which was “Written”, with the help of the saints who resurrected the same day when Jesus resurrected and they went into the city and witnessed to many. Yes, it was possible, even probable.

But in John 20:25 Thomas as it were recites the Scriptures in Job, as well as infers the first hand witness at the scene recorded in John 19:31-40, none other than Joseph of Arimathea, verse 38, “35 he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.”

Thomas was the first of the disciples to really have “believed”. The resurrected saints could have “informed” Thomas and Joseph “where two or three are together in Jesus’ Name”!

With such an “impression” created by the hands of the Saviour of his People, who can doubt the sincerity and “integrity of heart” of Thomas searching the Scriptures and seeking “understanding” of the “marks in his – Jesus’ – hands”?

Even an explanation from Job 19:27 may be derived for John 19:34 “forthwith came there out blood and water”, because “my kidneys (were) consumed within me”, and Jesus was then dead three hours and longer already when the soldier pierced his side.

.

 

[Illuminator]

How could Thomas, who founded a church in India that still exists today, do so without one word of NT Scripture?

Where does Scripture say "Thomas searched the scriptures?" The Bereans searched the scriptures; they were Greek speaking Pharisees, not Aramaic speaking fishermen.

"My Lord and my God" is not a cliché, it is an acknowledgement of Truth.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Psalm 78:72 He fed them according to the integrity of his heart; and guided them by the skilfulness [tebuna x bin] of his hands.

Something “engraved” on the “understanding” is like a “mark” of “discernment” or “view” of an “instruction”, “by reason of” which something is “caused to be understood” and perceived as an “instruction” or “discretion” to be “guided” by. Cf. Ezekiel 21:31. Such were the “PRINTS in his (Jesus) hands”, John 20:25.

I believe the apostle Thomas searched for “discernment” from the Scriptures for the PROPHETIC and SCRIPTURAL traits of IDENTITY—the “view-prints” or “marks-of-distinction” of the Messiah, and found it and had his own findings confirmed by no less than two “understanding” human legitimate witnesses.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

"Your names written in heaven"-- How? In the prints in Jesus' hands and spear-entry in his side.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

How could Thomas, who founded a church in India that still exists today, do so without one word of NT Scripture?

All Scripture is New Covenant Scripture; no Scripture is not New Covenant Scripture; because all Scripture is the Written WORD OF GOD; which was what Thomas searched.

 

[Illuminator]

All Scripture is New Covenant Scripture; no Scripture is not New Covenant Scripture; because all Scripture is the Written WORD OF GOD; which was what Thomas searched.

I have 2 responses.
1. Antinomianism denies the moral truths of the Old Testament.
2. Cite the chapter and verse that states Thomas searched a single New Covenant Scripture.

Your posts are toxic to the babes In Christ.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Job 19:23 Compare John 20:25,26

τις γαρ αν δοίη γραφήναι τα ρήματά μου
That might be given to be written my words

τεθήναι δε αυτά εν βιβλίω εις τον αιώνα 24 εν γραφείω σιδηρώ
and be put them in a book forever 24 with a stylus of iron

και μολίβδω η εν πέτραις εγγλυφήναι.
and in lead or in rocks engraved.

25 οίδα ότι γαρ αένναος εστιν ο εκλύειν με μέλλων επί γης
25 For I know eternal is He who saves Me soon on earth.

26 αναστήσαι το δέρμα μου το αναντλούν ταύτα
26 Printed in my skin (are) the things I suffered

παρά γαρ κυρίου ταύτά μοι συνετελέσθη
for the Lord these things in Me fulfilled

27 α εγώ εμαυτώ συνεπίσταμαι α οφθαλμός μου εώρακε
27 What I am sure of, that my eye has seen
KJV What I shall see for myself and mine eyes shall behold

και ουκ άλλος πάντα, δε μοι συντετέλεσται εν κόλπω
and not another, and in me all was fulfilled to the bosom
KJV and not another, though my reins be consumed in Me.

 

[Illuminator]

Job 19:23 Compare John 20:25,26

τις γαρ αν δοίη γραφήναι τα ρήματά μου
That might be given to be written my words

τεθήναι δε αυτά εν βιβλίω εις τον αιώνα 24 εν γραφείω σιδηρώ
and be put them in a book forever 24 with a stylus of iron

και μολίβδω η εν πέτραις εγγλυφήναι.
and in lead or in rocks engraved.

25 οίδα ότι γαρ αένναος εστιν ο εκλύειν με μέλλων επί γης
25 For I know eternal is He who saves Me soon on earth.

26 αναστήσαι το δέρμα μου το αναντλούν ταύτα
26 Printed in my skin (are) the things I suffered

παρά γαρ κυρίου ταύτά μοι συνετελέσθη
for the Lord these things in Me fulfilled

27 α εγώ εμαυτώ συνεπίσταμαι α οφθαλμός μου εώρακε
27 What I am sure of, that my eye has seen
KJV What I shall see for myself and mine eyes shall behold

και ουκ άλλος πάντα, δε μοι συντετέλεσται εν κόλπω
and not another, and in me all was fulfilled to the bosom
KJV and not another, though my reins be consumed in Me.

Sorry, GerhardEbersoehn, but your two verses have no comparison whatsoever. Job is not guilty of Bible worship the way you are.
First, Thomas didn't write Job, Job wrote Job.
Second, the Book of Job is not inscribed in rock, verse 23 foreshadows the 10 commandments that were inscribed in rock.
Third, The Word of God, the 10 commandments written in stone, not the entire Bible, was placed in the Ark of the Old Covenant, not the entire Bible. This foreshadowed Jesus, the living Word of God made flesh in the Ark of the New Covenant. This Biblical truth is denied by anti-Mary Christians.
Forth, Jesus had to directly purify Thomas of his rationalism.

Matthew 18:17

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Sorry, GerhardEbersoehn, but your two verses have no comparison whatsoever. Job is not guilty of Bible worship the way you are.
First, Thomas didn't write Job, Job wrote Job.
Second, the Book of Job is not inscribed in rock, verse 23 foreshadows the 10 commandments that were inscribed in rock.
Third, The Word of God, the 10 commandments written in stone, not the entire Bible, was placed in the Ark of the Old Covenant, not the entire Bible. This foreshadowed Jesus, the living Word of God made flesh in the Ark of the New Covenant. This Biblical truth is denied by anti-Mary Christians.
Forth, Jesus had to directly purify Thomas of his rationalism.

Weightless nonsensical irrelevancies except for your direct reversal of Jesus' commendation for Thomas' <rationalism>.
Verse 29, "Thomas, Because thou hast seen Me..." but "Thomas was NOT with them when Jesus eight days before had come and the other disciples had seen Him. Nevertheless Jesus calls it a fact, "thou hast seen ME and because thou hast seen Me, thou HAST BELIEVED". "Blessed are they who (like you Thomas) have NEITHER seen NOR believed..." "NO OTHER WAY" than through and according to THE SCRIPTURES!

29λέγει αὐτῷ ὁ Ἰησοῦς Ὅτι ἑώρακάς με, πεπίστευκας; μακάριοι οἱ μὴ ἰδόντες καὶ πιστεύσαντες.

καὶ is the usual and normal Continuative Conjunction which carries forward the application of
the Negation 'μὴ'— μὴ ... καὶ ... "blessed are those who have neither seen and-also-have-not believed".

καὶ is NOT an Adversative Conjunction, "blessed are they who have not seen and YET have believed. Mark that 'yet' has been added in the KJV.

καὶ is in fact used as Emphatic or Ascensive Conjunction that continues the negation μὴ to the ultimate, "who were not seeing verily were believing" ... and had to make sure from the Scriptures in matters of Faith!

 

[Illuminator]

Weightless nonsensical irrelevancies except for your direct reversal of Jesus' commendation for Thomas' <rationalism>.
Verse 29, "Thomas, Because thou hast seen Me..." but "Thomas was NOT with them when Jesus eight days before had come and the other disciples had seen Him. Nevertheless Jesus calls it a fact, "thou hast seen ME and because thou hast seen Me, thou HAST BELIEVED". "Blessed are they who (like you Thomas) have NEITHER seen NOR believed..." "NO OTHER WAY" than through and according to THE SCRIPTURES!

29λέγει αὐτῷ ὁ Ἰησοῦς Ὅτι ἑώρακάς με, πεπίστευκας; μακάριοι οἱ μὴ ἰδόντες καὶ πιστεύσαντες.

καὶ is the usual and normal Continuative Conjunction which carries forward the application of
the Negation 'μὴ'— μὴ ... καὶ ... "blessed are those who have neither seen and-also-have-not believed".

καὶ is NOT an Adversative Conjunction, "blessed are they who have not seen and YET have believed. Mark that 'yet' has been added in the KJV.

καὶ is in fact used as Emphatic or Ascensive Conjunction that continues the negation μὴ to the ultimate, "who were not seeing verily were believing" ... and had to make sure from the Scriptures in matters of Faith!

Absolute reliance on Greek grammar, lexicons and concordances without the spirit is just another form of works righteousness.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Absolute reliance on Greek grammar, lexicons and concordances without the spirit is just another form of works righteousness.

THANKS! This seals it!