The Eternal Security Heresy: A Comprehensive Refutation of OSAS

[Heyzeus]

Again: Still have no idea what you're talking about. What is my system of justice? Why would children be killed for parents sins? How and where is God changing? He changed tactics but not who he is. That's his perogative.

You never answer anything.

I answer everything - you cant seem to post without trying to demonize the messenger .. because you can't handle the message.

What do you mean "why would children be killed for the sins of the parents" - feigning you have not been part of the numerous conversations where you have stated.

You were the one supporting that babies and fetuses should be killed when people in the town in which they live - doesn't even need to be their parents - take to worshiping other Gods - that all the towns inhabitants need to be wiped out .. as per Gods Rule.

LOL How is God Changing you ask . and then answer your own question - He changed his mind silly- as is the perogative of God.

What part of "flip flopping" did you not understand the first 6 times I explained it to you .. but glad you finally get it..

Ohh the contradiction of it all .. very simply resolved .. but you refuse to do so .. as you like things twisted it seems .. what a tangled web we weave.

 

[Heyzeus]

We were all blown away when Hank Hanagraff left the Protestant church for the Greek Orthodox Church but I kind of see why now. In his extensive learning I think he saw the flawed theologies of the Protestants and couldn't honestly defend them anymore. I'm just speculating.

This has been my path. Started out Lutheran .. very staunch - very involved in the Church - never heard Mother utter the word "sht" nor any other curse .. not even mild ones .. have close relatives who have been through the Seminary 8 years learning Latin, Greek, Hebrew .. and learning that Christ shedding tears of blood - was a later edition by an overzealous copyist wanting to show Christs Humanity..

Hard to be a literalist out of that training .. At a back yard function of church leaders .. as in top of the food chain for a large region - admin - plenty of food and libation - had two Ministers - one a long time family friend and the other a relative newcomer to the group - take opposite positions on some of the details of Trinity Doctrine. This is not for the sheep .. but in theological circles this is not uncommon ...

To Filioque or not to Filioque - that is the Question :) The Filioque Clause

I left general dogma a long time ago - and charted my own path - and has been a long search.. but .. for what it is worth - in my opinion ..backed up with a fair amount of historical evidence - and biblical evidence .. Orthodox is the closest to the early Church ..

Not that I am saying that Orthodox does not have its issues with dogma either .. but in relative comnparision .. I think it is the best.
Myself I am a Subordinantist .. the only way to make sense out of the whole thing IMO. The early Church was also of this ideology - Orthodox being the last of the new Universal Church to give it up - but with considerable reservation - and maintaining remnants just under the surface...

We had the West and the East at Nicea .. The West side initiated the 1000 years of Horror - the East did not participate in this mindless "anti" Christian behaviour.

The Doctrine of Protestantism - follows the West - w/r to the Trinity. Obviously neither side - East (Orthodox) nor West(Catholic) - of the Universal Church accepts "Sola Fide" - and nor do I - despite being indoctrinated into this Man made dogma since birth - our good friend and Namesake - Martin .

 

[charity]

Isn't the obedience of faith actually doing what God commands, doing those things through your faith in God? Or are you just referring to how you receive justification when you believe?

Hello @Ferris Bueller,

Thank you for responding.

I believe that the obedience of faith is believing what God has said concerning His Son the Lord Jesus Christ, not only in regard to salvation ie., forgiveness of sins, justification, sanctification and redemption, but also about our glorification and our future hope and destination in the age to come. These things determine our manner of life and witness, and is the joy and rejoicing of our heart. Doctrine and practice go hand in hand, for there has to be balance if we would walk aright, more by faith and less by sight.

* We have been given a sonship spirit by which we can call the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 'Abba, Father', so closely are we identified with the Son. We live now, looking for His appearing, when we too will appear with Him in glory. This is what encourages us to want to walk worthy of all that we have come to know and acknowledge. This is doing the work of God, 'believing on Him Whom He has sent', both doctrinally and in practice.

* The only commandment we have been given is to love one another, as He has loved us.

'For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty;
only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh,
but by love serve one another.
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this;
Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.'
(Gal 5:13)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Heyzeus]

Hello @Ferris Bueller,

Thank you for responding.

I believe that the obedience of faith is believing what God has said concerning His Son the Lord Jesus Christ, not only in regard to salvation ie., forgiveness of sins, justification, sanctification and redemption, but also about our glorification and our future hope and destination in the age to come. These things determine our manner of life and witness, and is the joy and rejoicing of our heart. Doctrine and practice go hand in hand, for there has to be balance if we would walk aright, more by faith and less by sight.

We have been given a sonship spirit by which we can call the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 'Abba, Father', so closely are we identified with the Son. We live now, looking for His appearing, when we too will appear with Him in glory. This is what encourages us to want to walk worthy of all that we have come to know and acknowledge. This is doing the work of God, 'believing on Him Whom He has sent', both doctrinally and in practice.

The only commandment we have been given is to love one another, as He has loved us.

'For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty;
only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh,
but by love serve one another.
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this;
Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.'
(Gal 5:13)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Very nice Post - and very nice fusion of Pauline Scripture into the Teachings of Jesus .. mirrored in Matt 7:12 - perhaps my favorite passage .. the rule that "Sums up the Law and the Prophets"

Not complicated .. and the bar is actually set very low - More Righteous than the Pharisees and the Lawgivers .. folks who Jesus detested.
Blessed are the poor in spirit .. for theirs is the Kingdom ... "I do not pass Judgement - but when I Judge I do so under the authority of the Most High"

We also see a union between James and Paul - something that is rare - at least in public discourse. James 2

8 If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, “Love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing right.....12 Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom, 13 because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment.

 

[Renniks]

Ohh the contradiction of it all .. very simply resolved

You see a contradiction in God changing how he deals with humans? I see no such contradiction. He's God. You aren't. You don't get to tell him what he can or can't do by picking out the verses that make you feel good.

 

[justbyfaith]

Yes .. indeed it was what you claimed .. you started out saying "that wasn't in Greece .. it was in Turkey" .. Claiming that Thessalonians and Corinthians were not Greek peoples.

What I said was that they were located in Turkey....not that they did not have any Greek lineage.

You assume that I believe that people groups don't move around.

That the Greek Orthodox Church was founded by Paul .. was my claim right from the beginning - one which you have been trying to deny.

It is obvious from holy scripture (Acts of the Apostles 16:7) that the church in the East was not founded by Paul....for Paul was forbidden to preach at Bithyinia, which was in the east.

and learning that Christ shedding tears of blood - was a later edition by an overzealous copyist wanting to show Christs Humanity..

It was not tears but droplets of sweat...and the doctrine of this was at one time disputed by people saying that that did not happen to human beings...until cases of people sweating droplets of blood when under great duress came to the surface.

I would say that this "overzealous copyist" should have been aware that there was no apparent scientific backup for what he wrote at the time that he wrote it; and he should have kept it out of his copy of the scriptures because of its lack of credibility. But that he did write it in and it was later substantiated that it does happen speaks to me of the fact that the man wrote it in by faith in the fact that it was in the original manuscript....otherwise he could have renigged on his statement when the pressure started to come on...and I think that if it were not in the original manuscripts he would have renigged; knowing that he had no ground to stand on in his translation of the holy scriptures.

 

[justbyfaith]

Not complicated .. and the bar is actually set very low - More Righteous than the Pharisees and the Lawgivers .. folks who Jesus detested.

The bar is set high....the scribes and Pharisees were impeccably righteous, outwardly.

 

[farouk]

We were all blown away when Hank Hanagraff left the Protestant church for the Greek Orthodox Church but I kind of see why now. In his extensive learning I think he saw the flawed theologies of the Protestants and couldn't honestly defend them anymore. I'm just speculating.

Do you know why specifically he left?

 

[brightfame52]

What you think Hebrews 10:14 implies is what makes me sick. These weird far fetched interpretations of the Bible and Christianity makes me sick of Christianity. The anchor of my soul, though, is that I know my sins have been forgiven and I won't give that up no matter how much men ruin Christianity with their teachings. It's hard to not have these teachings nibble away at my faith, but I have forgiveness and deliverance from sin and sin guilt holding me fast to the real truth despite these ramblings of men.

What I testify to in that verse gives utmost credit and praise to the efficacy of the Blood of Christ!

 

[farouk]

What I testify to in that verse gives utmost credit and praise to the efficacy of the Blood of Christ!

@brightfame52 A great blessing to rest on "It is finished" (John 19.30).

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Do you know why specifically he left?

No, he wouldn't say. And as far as I know he still hasn't said.

 

[Heyzeus]

What I said was that they were located in Turkey....not that they did not have any Greek lineage.

You assume that I believe that people groups don't move around..

I made no such assumption .. and you were completely wrong.

Bottom line .. the Greek Orthodox Church was established by Paul near 2000 years ago - and this Church does not accept Sola Fide.

 

[brightfame52]

Not only so, but by Christ one offering those He died for are once and for all sanctified forever Heb 10:10

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

This teaches eternal security!

 

[Heyzeus]

The bar is set high....the scribes and Pharisees were impeccably righteous, outwardly.

Jesus thought very little of the Pharisees and the Lawgivers - the bar is low.

What is really strange is your suggestion that Jesus will judge on the basis of outward appearance ? You want to walk that one back ?

 

[Heyzeus]

Not only so, but by Christ one offering those He died for are once and for all sanctified forever Heb 10:10

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

This teaches eternal security!

No such thing as a free pass through the pearly gates .. all will face judgement.

 

[farouk]

No, he wouldn't say. And as far as I know he still hasn't said.

All I can think is that he cannot originally have been so rooted in Scripture as to have been incapable in the end of being influenced more by ritual and aesthetics and tradition.

 

[farouk]

Not only so, but by Christ one offering those He died for are once and for all sanctified forever Heb 10:10

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

This teaches eternal security!

I do indeed believe that there is a lot of Scripture evidence for eternal security of the true believer. Of course there are a lot of ppl about who are not true believers, but think they are.

 

[farouk]

Romans 8.38-39 seems profound evidence for the true believer's eternal security.

 

[brightfame52]

No such thing as a free pass through the pearly gates .. all will face judgement.

Who said anything of a free pass? No sir it cost Christ His life!

 

[brightfame52]

Romans 8.38-39 seems profound evidence for the true believer's eternal security.

It's true for any one Christ died for whom will believe.