The Eternal Security Heresy: A Comprehensive Refutation of OSAS

[Ferris Bueller]

faith alone just as in Christ alone, in Scripture alone- nothing else.

Faith 'apart from works' in Paul's argument is not the same 'faith alone' argument that James is making. This confusion is what has messed the Protestant church up. Even to the point of destruction.

 

[ChristisGod]

Faith 'apart from works' in Paul's argument is not the same 'faith alone' argument that James is making. This confusion is what has messed the Protestant church up. Even to the point of destruction.

I know the argument well. Faith without works is a dead faith which is true and Paul agrees. Works are the result of salvation not the means to salvation as per Ephesians 2:8-10. Good works like fruit are the result of a living faith, a saving faith. A dead faith is like a dead tree with no fruit which is why Jesus cursed the Fig Tree.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Faith merely professed is not true faith anyway.

Exactly right. Yet countless 'believers' think their profession of faith 'alone' is going to be enough for Jesus to send them to the right into the kingdom. Not knowing that their faith that is alone is the evidence there is no imputation of righteousness in them.

But salvation is indeed "not of works" (Ephesians 2.9); this cannot be emphasized enough.

Salvation is not of works in that works do not, and can not earn salvation. But salvation is of works in that works are the metric by which Jesus judges us as having love for him and faith in him. Just as Jesus judged the woman washing his feet as having loved him by what she did, not by what she said. Of whom he says, "your faith has saved you", yet he used her works as the basis for that judgment about her faith. Luke 7:46-50........

46You did not anoint My head with oil, but she has anointed My feet with perfume. 47Therefore I tell you, because her many sins have been forgiven, she has loved much. But he who has been forgiven little loves little.”48Then Jesus said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.”49But those at the table began to say to themselves, “Who is this who even forgives sins?”

50And Jesus told the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”

 

[farouk]

Exactly right. Yet countless 'believers' think their profession of faith 'alone' is going to be enough for Jesus to send them to the right into the kingdom. Not knowing that their faith that is alone is the evidence there is no imputation of righteousness in them.


Salvation is not of works in that works do not, and can not earn salvation. But salvation is of works in that works are the metric by which Jesus judges us as having love for him and faith in him. Just as Jesus judged the woman washing his feet as having loved him by what she did, not by what she said. Of whom he says, "your faith has saved", yet he used her works as the basis for that judgment about her faith. Luke 7:46-50........

46You did not anoint My head with oil, but she has anointed My feet with perfume. 47Therefore I tell you, because her many sins have been forgiven, she has loved much. But he who has been forgiven little loves little.”48Then Jesus said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.”49But those at the table began to say to themselves, “Who is this who even forgives sins?”

50And Jesus told the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”

Works are not meritorious, though...

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I know the argument well. Faith without works is a dead faith which is true and Paul agrees. Works are the result of salvation not the means to salvation as per Ephesians 2:8-10. Good works like fruit are the result of a living faith, a saving faith. A dead faith is like a dead tree with no fruit which is why Jesus cursed the Fig Tree.

hope this helps !!!

I think H. is on the same page. What he resists is the person who says all of this that you just said and then turns right around and says dead faith saves anyway because you get saved when you first believe before you do anything.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Works are not meritorious, though...

That's what I said.

Works SHOW your faith. No show means no faith. No faith means no salvation. But the Protestant church says this is a lie. They are sure their dead faith saves too.

 

[Heyzeus]

What he's getting at is this......

James 2:
24As you can see (using Abraham's example), a man is justified by his deeds and not by faith alone.

James is not saying a man is MADE righteous by his deeds. And I think H. would acknowledge that.

Frankly - I am not sure that is not the case in general.. but this is not what James is saying with respect to the example of Abraham.

James is saying that it was faith that led Abraham to follow God's word - faith was the motivating factor - but the justification was due to the action inspired by that faith. Also the faith being referred to here has nothing to do with "faith in Jesus and the sacrament" - and clearly James is using this as an example to refutes the kind of faith that some early "faith alone" Christians were professing..

So claiming that this example supports sola fide .. is preposterous nonsense .. given that James has just stated that "faith alone" doctrine is foolish .. and James says - and here is why - followed by the 2 examples.

In the second example .. Rehab the Prostitute. This woman clearly has no knowledge of Jesus .. or the idea that belief in the sacrifice of Jesus gets one a free pass through the pearly gates.

Rehab lives in a town - at a time most - if not all towns had its own Patron God. Success or failure in battle was attributed to one God prevailing over another - The Israelites were winning battles. This success was attributed to the strength of their patron God .. and so Rehab had high respect for this God - thought that this God of the Israelites must be powerful.

So we could say that Rehab had a kind of "faith" but it is more respect for this God .. but this matters not .. this faith/respect - has nothing to do with what these early "faith alone" Christians were talking about.

Rehab was justified before God due to her actions - and this is clear .. was respect for the God of the Israelites also a component .. probably - but this does not change the fact that actions were part of the justification.

 

[Heyzeus]

faith alone just as in Christ alone, in Scripture alone- nothing else.

No clue what you are trying to say - you are mumbling unintelligible gibberish.

 

[ChristisGod]

I think H. is on the same page. What he resists is the person who says all of this that you just said and then turns right around and says dead faith saves anyway because you get saved when you first believe before you do anything.

Yes dead faith is just that dead. Its really an oxymoron. Faith is living, alive just like Jesus teaching on living water, never thirsting again because of the Holy Spirit in us.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Frankly - I am not sure that is not the case in general.. but this is not what James is saying with respect to the example of Abraham.

James is saying that it was faith that led Abraham to follow God's word - faith was the motivating factor - but the justification was due to the action inspired by that faith. Also the faith being referred to here has nothing to do with "faith in Jesus and the sacrament" - and clearly James is using this as an example to refutes the kind of faith that some early "faith alone" Christians were professing..

So claiming that this example supports sola fide .. is preposterous nonsense .. given that James has just stated that "faith alone" doctrine is foolish .. and James says - and here is why - followed by the 2 examples.

In the second example .. Rehab the Prostitute. This woman clearly has no knowledge of Jesus .. or the idea that belief in the sacrifice of Jesus gets one a free pass through the pearly gates.

Rehab lives in a town - at a time most - if not all towns had its own Patron God. Success or failure in battle was attributed to one God prevailing over another - The Israelites were winning battles. This success was attributed to the strength of their patron God .. and so Rehab had high respect for this God - thought that this God of the Israelites must be powerful.

So we could say that Rehab had a kind of "faith" but it is more respect for this God .. but this matters not .. this faith/respect - has nothing to do with what these early "faith alone" Christians were talking about.

Rehab was justified before God due to her actions - and this is clear .. was respect for the God of the Israelites also a component .. probably - but this does not change the fact that actions were part of the justification.

Good post. I'm at work and want to address these points but can't. I will be glad to discuss them with you as time permits. Let me just say at this point that many years ago I studied very hard to figure out what makes the faith of the Patriarchs a pattern for the faith we have in Jesus. The common denominator is we all have faith in God's promise of a Son who inherits the blessing on our behalf. I'll be back. I'm your friend. God bless you.

 

[ChristisGod]

No clue what you are trying to say - you are mumbling unintelligible gibberish.

interesting that truth to you is gibberish.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Yes dead faith is just that dead. Its really an oxymoron. Faith is living, alive just like Jesus teaching on living water, never thirsting again because of the Holy Spirit in us.

Yes.

I think there is a way to reconcile what you're saying and what H. is saying. I'm confident he agrees with this.

 

[Heyzeus]

I don't think you have any clue regarding the sheep and the goats, the wheat and the tares, the saved and the lost, those on His right and those on His left, the righteous and the sinner, those in the light and those in darkness, those in the kingdom of God and those in the kingdom of this world, those who serve Christ and those who serve the god of this world.......................

What does the Sheep and Goats parable in Matt 25- which is clearly about the sheep getting into heaven on the basis of good deeds(works) have to do with your claim that "faith alone" doctrine was part of the Israelite beliefs.

No where in the OT is "faith alone" doctrine professed. Your claim is false. You are making things up and then falsely claiming these made up beliefs existed in OT times.

 

[Heyzeus]

interesting that truth to you is gibberish.

What Truth - you didn't even make a coherent sentence ..

You said: "faith alone just as in Christ alone, in Scripture alone- nothing else."

You have not claimed anything in the above sentence fragment? you are mumbling unintelligible sweet nothings to yourself - and have given no support for your nonsense claim that "Faith Alone" doctrine was part of the beliefs of the people in Abraham's time.

 

[Cooper]

What he's getting at is this......

James 2:
24As you can see (using Abraham's example), a man is justified by his deeds and not by faith alone.

James is not saying a man is MADE righteous by his deeds. And I think H. would acknowledge that.

Abraham's obedience to God are the EVIDENCE of his faith.

It was his faith that saved him, not his deeds.
.

 

[ChristisGod]

What Truth - you didn't even make a coherent sentence ..

You said: "faith alone just as in Christ alone, in Scripture alone- nothing else."

You have not claimed anything in the above sentence fragment? you are mumbling unintelligible sweet nothings to yourself - and have given no support for your nonsense claim that "Faith Alone" doctrine was part of the beliefs of the people in Abraham's time.

Interesting that is gibberish as any bible student in seminary understands the above.

I'm shocked you are unaware of the 5 solas.

• Sola scriptura ("by Scripture alone")
• Sola fide ("by faith alone")
• Sola gratia ("by grace alone")
• Solus Christus or Solo Christo ("Christ alone" or "through Christ alone")
• Soli Deo gloria ("glory to God alone")

 

[Heyzeus]

Abraham's obedience to God are the EVIDENCE of his faith.

It was his faith that saved him, not his deeds.
.

That is not what James says. 20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless

The whole point of James example of Abraham was to show that "Faith without Deeds is useless" -

And what about the example of Rehab .. Rehab was not obedient to God - Rehab did not even know the God of the Israelites - Rehab was justified before God on the basis of her deeds.

 

[Cooper]

The hiccup comes at the 'LIVED' by faith part. The church thinks you do not have to live by faith to be saved when Jesus comes back, just that you have faith. That's not what James said.

People live by their faith, whatever their faith may be, whether they be Muslims, Hindu, pagans or whatever. I live by my Christian faith, if I did not, I could not claim to be a Christian.

 

[Heyzeus]

Interesting that is gibberish as any bible student in seminary understands the above.

I'm shocked you are unaware of the 5 solas.

• Sola scriptura ("by Scripture alone")
• Sola fide ("by faith alone")
• Sola gratia ("by grace alone")
• Solus Christus or Solo Christo ("Christ alone" or "through Christ alone")
• Soli Deo gloria ("glory to God alone")

I am not unaware of the Sola's - but we are only talking about "Sola Fide" - a man made doctrine that did not exist at the time of Abraham.

Your claim that this doctrine did exist - is a patent false hood - a falsehood not changed by you posting the 5 sola's - 4 of which are completely unrelated to the "Sola Fide" in an effort to distract and divert away from scripture.

Repeating "Sola Fide .. Sola Fide .. Sola Fide" over and over again to yourself - does not make Sola Fide part of the beliefs of the people of Abraham.

Your claim that Sola Fide was part of the beliefs of the people of Abraham .. is supported Nowhere" in the OT .. and is complete nonsense in that these people did not know who Jesus was ... never mind belief that belief in the sacrifice of Jesus purchased a free pass through the pearly gates ..

 

[Heyzeus]

Abraham's obedience to God are the EVIDENCE of his faith.

It was his faith that saved him, not his deeds.
.

20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

What part of "a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone" are you having trouble understanding ?