The Eternal Security Heresy: A Comprehensive Refutation of OSAS

[brightfame52]

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No, the obedience of loving others is what gives you assurance in regards to your justification and that you are ready for the judgment.

i disagree with that, thats what Faith is given for, assurance. Heb 11:1

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

The word substance is the greek word hypostasis and means:

confidence, firm trust, assurance

I agree with the esv translation of this verse:

Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

If you base your assurance upon what you do, thats contrary to a life of faith

 

[brightfame52]

Believing is a choice.

Acts 2:40
40With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.”

Acts 2:40 doesnt say believing is a choice ! See post 1158

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Thats a bogus accusation, Abraham was Justified before God way before the sacrificing of Isaac.......

Yes, he was justified by his faith way before the sacrificing of Isaac (Genesis 15:6). Then he was justified by what he did when he sacrificed Isaac on the altar (Genesis 22:12).

James 2:21-24
21Was not our father Abraham justified by what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith was working with his actions, and his faith was perfected by what he did. 23And the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”i and he was called a friend of God.j 24As you can see, a man is justified by his deeds and not by faith alone.

See it? A man is justified by what he does as well as being justified by his faith. Only being justified by faith is called 'dead faith'. James says dead faith can not save.

James 2:14-19
14What good is it, my brothers, if someone claims to have faith, but has no deeds? Can such faith save him?
17 ...faith by itself, if it does not result in action,f is dead.18But someone will say, “You have faith and I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19You believe that God is one.g Good for you! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

Dead faith can't save you. Dead faith is disobedient, fake faith. It does not cause a person to do the will of God. People who don't do the will of God don't enter into the kingdom of God at the resurrection. They show by their disobedience that they do not believe in or love Jesus.

, by him being willing to do that was proof of having already been Justified by the imputed righteousness of Christ.

Yes. That's why the true believer MUST be justified by both faith and what he does, or else he doesn't really have faith. People will say they believe this but then they will go back to their old argument and say you don't have to do good works to be saved.

The very story being told is for the benefit of believers, before men, it showed the genuine character of his God given faith.

However you dont seem to be giving credit to the obedience of Christ as the sole cause of ones Justification before God, even though scripture declares it Rom 5:19

Justification by faith is one thing. Justification by what you do is another. You must have both to enter into the kingdom of God at the resurrection. The person who is genuinely justified by faith must also be justified by what he does, or else he really hasn't been justified by faith. If he had been he'd be doing works of righteousness. This has nothing to do with whether man or God is the one who declares the person righteous (justifies them) by what they do.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

i disagree with that, thats what Faith is given for, assurance. Heb 11:1

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

The word substance is the greek word hypostasis and means:

confidence, firm trust, assurance

I agree with the esv translation of this verse:

Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

If you base your assurance upon what you do, thats contrary to a life of faith

No, lol, you're misusing the definition. Faith is an inner assurance that something really is true. That doesn't mean you trust in the thing that you know inside of you really is true. Your works show if you trust in what you know to be true. And so your works give you the assurance that you actually trust in what you know to be true and are saved. Just knowing something is true is not what saves. In the James verses we see that even the demons know the truth about Jesus. Does that give them the assurance they are saved? No way! They don't have the assurance of righteous works to show that they trust in him and are saved.

 

[brightfame52]

No, lol, you're misusing the definition. Faith is an inner assurance that something really is true. That doesn't mean you trust in the thing that you know inside of you really is true. Your works show if you trust in what you know to be true. And so your works give you the assurance that you actually trust in what you know to be true and are saved. Just knowing something is true is not what saves. In the James verses we see that even the demons know the truth about Jesus. Does that give them the assurance they are saved? No way! They don't have the assurance of righteous works to show that they trust in him and are saved.

God gives Faith to give assurance that one has Justification before Him based solely on what Christ has accomplished for one, its as simple as that ! No works are needed for assurance

 

[brightfame52]

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Just knowing something is true is not what saves.

Thats not what I said, please dont misrepresent, thats dishonest. Quote exactly what I said to be accurate of what i testified to.

 

[brightfame52]

Yes, he was justified by his faith way before the sacrificing of Isaac (Genesis 15:6). Then he was justified by what he did when he sacrificed Isaac on the altar (Genesis 22:12).

James 2:21-24
21Was not our father Abraham justified by what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith was working with his actions, and his faith was perfected by what he did. 23And the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”i and he was called a friend of God.j 24As you can see, a man is justified by his deeds and not by faith alone.

See it? A man is justified by what he does as well as being justified by his faith. Only being justified by faith is called 'dead faith'. James says dead faith can not save.

James 2:14-19
14What good is it, my brothers, if someone claims to have faith, but has no deeds? Can such faith save him?
17 ...faith by itself, if it does not result in action,f is dead.18But someone will say, “You have faith and I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19You believe that God is one.g Good for you! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

Dead faith can't save you. Dead faith is disobedient, fake faith. It does not cause a person to do the will of God. People who don't do the will of God don't enter into the kingdom of God at the resurrection. They show by their disobedience that they do not believe in or love Jesus.


Yes. That's why the true believer MUST be justified by both faith and what he does, or else he doesn't really have faith. People will say they believe this but then they will go back to their old argument and say you don't have to do good works to be saved.

Justification by faith is one thing. Justification by what you do is another. You must have both to enter into the kingdom of God at the resurrection. The person who is genuinely justified by faith must also be justified by what he does, or else he really hasn't been justified by faith. If he had been he'd be doing works of righteousness. This has nothing to do with whether man or God is the one who declares the person righteous (justifies them) by what they do.

Abraham as I stated was Justified before God years before he obeyed God to sacrifice his son Isaac.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

When you see that the purpose of the Law was to show you that you could not keep it , Perhaps you will Understand that it was given to get people to “ Shut Up” about their delusional thinking in regard to it.The Law could only point out sin and your need for a Savior....

No, that's not what the law could only do........

2 Timothy 3:15-17
the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for instruction, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be complete, fully equipped for every good work.

Paul says the law is also good for instruction, conviction, correction, and training in righteousness, preparing us for every good work. Regardless of what one may think of Paul, do we listen to Paul, or do we listen to the teacher who's teaching you that the law was only good for proving you're a sinner who can't do the right thing, and now that you know that you can throw it away? You know the answer to that. We listen to Paul.

 

[brightfame52]

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Paul says the law is also good for instruction, conviction, correction, and training in righteousness, preparing us for every good work.

Paul said that about the scriptures as a whole. The law is part of the scriptures, one must learn to rightly divide the scriptures

 

[Ferris Bueller]

“ Why,SURE Jesus Saves ! BUT! Once you know “ that” you must KEEP the Law to “ STAY” Saved........a Doctrine straight from Hell.....

Not upholding the law shows that you are not saved. It shows you do not have saving faith. Because saving faith upholds the law. When you tell people they don't have to keep the law because salvation is not by works you're deceiving them by not telling them that not keeping the law shows you are not saved. Your doctrine also is straight from hell. Satan loves to deceive people into thinking their dead faith is the faith that saves. Just as he loves to tell people they must work to earn salvation.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Thats not what I said, please dont misrepresent, thats dishonest. Quote exactly what I said to be accurate of what i testified to.

Yes you did. You said faith itself is the assurance that you are saved/justified. I showed you that faith is the assurance that something is true, not the assurance that you are saved by what you know is true. Works are what give us the assurance that we belong to the truth and are saved. I showed you this in scripture. What is going on inside of you that you are choosing to close your eyes to what the Bible actually says? Why are you choosing to believe what you were taught instead of what the Bible says?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Paul said that about the scriptures as a whole. The law is part of the scriptures, one must learn to rightly divide the scriptures

I'm the one citing the law. Do you think I'm somehow not including it in the scriptures that Paul says teach, and correct, and train us?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Abraham as I stated was Justified before God years before he obeyed God to sacrifice his son Isaac.

Yeah, we know that. Now address what James says that a man is not justified by faith alone but also by what he does. You can't be saved by faith that is alone. You must also be justified by what you do. He said faith that is alone can not save you. Abraham was justified by what he believed, and by what he did. But the church is sure they only have to be justified by what they believe, not by what they do. Do we listen to that lie from the church or do we listen to James? You know the answer.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

God gives Faith to give assurance that one has Justification before Him based solely on what Christ has accomplished for one, its as simple as that ! No works are needed for assurance

Then you disagree with John and James. It's that simple. I know this is a shock to you and you're not going to accept it very easily. But the church has been leading the flock astray for decades now.

 

[brightfame52]

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Yes you did.

Show the quote please. Or admit you have misrepresented me !

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Show the quote please. Or admit you have misrepresented me !

Here.......

God gives Faith to give assurance that one has Justification before Him based solely on what Christ has accomplished for one

 

[brightfame52]

I'm the one citing the law. Do you think I'm somehow not including it in the scriptures that Paul says teach, and correct, and train us?

Paul said what he said about the scriptures, 2 Tim 3:16

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

The scripture includes, the law, the prophets, the psalms

 

[brightfame52]

Yeah, we know that. Now address what James says that a man is not justified by faith alone but also by what he does. You can't be saved by faith that is alone. You must also be justified by what you do. He said faith that is alone can not save you. Abraham was justified by what he believed, and by what he did. But the church is sure they only have to be justified by what they believe, not by what they do. Do we listen to that lie from the church or do we listen to James? You know the answer.

Ok thats my point. I already spoke on James, the justification he refers to is before men. How many times do I have to keep saying it.

 

[brightfame52]

Then you disagree with John and James. It's that simple. I know this is a shock to you and you're not going to accept it very easily. But the church has been leading the flock astray for decades now.

Its all in your imagination. Faith gives assurance, the assurance of faith Heb 10:22

et us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Ok thats my point. I already spoke on James, the justification he refers to is before men. How many times do I have to keep saying it.

I showed you from the very example of Abraham James' uses to show you that it's not about being declared righteous before man. But what does it matter? You have to have this justification to be saved. The church says you do not. That's the point.