The Mark of the Beast (what it really is explained)

[Heart2Soul]

Scripture says that the Church(Holy Ghost) is holding the antichrist back....


7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

We have a big gap here...the Holy Spirit isn't the church....the church consists of the saints who follow Christ...He is the chief Cornerstone and we are commanded to build upon what He first laid as our foundation.

 

[bbyrd009]

tomorrow

The book of the revelation of Jesus Christ tells us of the last two witnesses martyred because of their testimony (and their works) and the passage is immediately followed by a description of the return of Christ. Not everything in that book is in chronological order, but these witnesses are clearly empowered by God through the Holy Spirit. It's not much of a stretch to see them as the last of the generation of the righteous (the entire world celebrates their deaths.)

almost surely not literal ppl?

If you consider the end times as beginning with the resurrection of Christ, then all history since that time has been fulfilling Christ's words, and the end times are not completed until His return in glory. If people have thought repeatedly that His return was imminent, that's because the signs of the times have been increasingly resembling what He said beforehand.

said every generation ever? but it is a Great Escape, huh? Jesus Is Returning!
tomorrow

In the times of Caesar Nero, who would have imagined the rise of the man Mohammad and the rise of Islam? In the days of the Ottoman empire, who would've imagined the rise of Napoleon Bonaparte? And in the 18th century, who would've imagined the rise of Adolf Hitler?

ah, its not my area, but im fairly sure a historian or whoever could lay out the inevitability of all of those, Michael. i suspect one is being engineered right now even. so maybe youll get to see, but i mean the causes for those always get sorted later eh, and its usually the same story? Some oppressed to the limit population gives rise to a usually monomaniacal leader who hits the right note and etc, or i guess there might be a few other scenarios, but a point is that they are always found out later...

although at the time, when it matters, you are sure right i guess
how do you forsee the rise of a resistance movement?
have you read The Prince yet bac?

We have such short lives that we consider a decade a long time, but in biblical terminology we're as transient and short lived as a vapor, an exhalation of breath. Biblical prophesy is rarely immediately fulfilled and in some instances is fulfilled more than once, particularly when the initial fulfillment is a sign of something greater to come.

word

If you look at rabbinical explanations of prophesy you'll find that many messianic prophecies are considered fulfilled without the coming of any messiah, but the new testament perspective is that all things ultimately point to Christ and His kingdom regardless of earlier and lesser fulfillment.

its not a two eyed thing though Michael, the kingdom does not come by observation right

While some people see scripture as a rule book and guide for living, I see it's primary purpose as the revelation of God in the person of His Son so that we may be first reconciled to Him and then get to know Him intimately and walk with Him, even as Adam did in the beginning.

ah well now that is what its all about imo, only Yah is Spirit right but somehow we end up with "Jesus is literally Returning any second now, and then the party starts" right and i just have all kinda probs with that bro
and i think you should too
tomorrow comes today

 

[michaelvpardo]

If you want to quote what I've said then please quote what I've said rather than what you THINK I've said. I have never given Satan such adulation! If you didn't understand what I've said then don't quote me but ask.

Now back to the subject at hand.

You said the things above because apparently you have never read 1 John 4:3 which reads:
"And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that of anti-Christ, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world."

If you don't understand this verse just ask!! The only entity that fits this bill that is to come yet already is in the world when John penned this passage IS none other than Satan!!!

To God Be The Glory

Well, if you say so, then it must be true. Forgive my use of logic, reason, and sound exegetical practice to communicate what the Holy Spirit teaches me.

 

[michaelvpardo]

tomorrowalmost surely not literal ppl?

said every generation ever? but it is a Great Escape, huh? Jesus Is Returning!
tomorrow

ah, its not my area, but im fairly sure a historian or whoever could lay out the inevitability of all of those, Michael. i suspect one is being engineered right now even. so maybe youll get to see, but i mean the causes for those always get sorted later eh, and its usually the same story? Some oppressed to the limit population gives rise to a usually monomaniacal leader who hits the right note and etc, or i guess there might be a few other scenarios, but a point is that they are always found out later...

although at the time, when it matters, you are sure right i guess
how do you forsee the rise of a resistance movement?
have you read The Prince yet bac?

word

its not a two eyed thing though Michael, the kingdom does not come by observation right

ah well now that is what its all about imo, only Yah is Spirit right but somehow we end up with "Jesus is literally Returning any second now, and then the party starts" right and i just have all kinda probs with that bro
and i think you should too
tomorrow comes today

I'm sorry, I thought that you'd seen Him. No worries, there's a good chance that you'll see Him within the next seven years, hopefully sooner than later.

 

[bbyrd009]

I'm sorry, I thought that you'd seen Him. No worries, there's a good chance that you'll see Him within the next seven years, hopefully sooner than later.

ah, i would prefer to see Him as He is, Michael, but that doesnt mean i wouldnt love for it to literally come true, either lol
if only it worked like that

 

[michaelvpardo]

The Holy Spirit opened my eyes in 1985 about the rapture teaching. There is no rapture before or during the tribulation.
I was studying Revelation and things just didn't add up...the first thing I noticed is the antichrist appears 1st and sits upon the Holy Seat declaring himself to be the Messiah...
And then it was scripture after scripture that contradicted the pre-trib rapture teaching.

I'm quite convinced that the Lord withholds some things from us until we are able to "bear them." That truth is a tough one to bear now and in this age, but one you needed to know for your ministry, your calling, and in some ways it's a bitter pill to swallow. How could divine judgment be anything else? I can only stay grounded, anchored in the Lord, because of the hope in His imminent return and the promise of the age to come. The beautiful thing about it is the unpercieved reality that it isn't me holding onto Him for dear life, but actually Him grasping me and saving me from the tide. Hallelujah, what a savior!

 

[michaelvpardo]

ah, i would prefer to see Him as He is, Michael, but that doesnt mean i wouldnt love for it to literally come true, either lol
if only it worked like that

I get that, you're really not all that difficult to understand. In these days it's better to be unbelieving and well informed than to be believing but ignorant (those saints are at high risk and always have been.)

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

You don't know what you're talking about, otherwise you "solve" the calculation and identify the person. So until you can chew meat, please stick to what you're good at -- milk.

Bobby Jo

The person ? you the religious, lacking Grace in the Holy Spirit. you seek and you can not find, because you ask amiss.

The Devil himself, so what ! it's they who are under his power, it's about being lead by deceptions of the identity, as it always was.

The Devil himself is regarded as a Titch by Jesus, it's only due to such deceptions that the Carnal man is lead astray by the Titch, when you understand this you will have the power to understand it is only a Titch.
The Titch has no power over Jesus Christ at all, because Jesus Christ is the Holy Spirit.

 

[michaelvpardo]

I didn't mean to ignore your question. The only book I've read with Prince in the title was written by Machiavelli and it is by no stretch of the imagination a Christian book. I have a rather short attention span whenever someone denies what scripture plainly says. My eyes kind of glaze over and my thoughts drift to the Simpsons or Futurama. They're fictional too, but at least I get the occasional laugh.
There are no spiritual adepts in Christianity. It isn't the way to spiritual enlightenment. Ecumenical councils would have you believe that it is and that there are many ways to arrive at truth, but in doing so they deny the word and make Christ a liar. I don't need a guru, I have the Holy Spirit as teacher. The cup of Christ is a remembrance of His sacrifice to be observed as a testimony until His return, not until some spiritual awakening. I've run into all sorts of cultists that cherry pick scripture to prove points that are only real in their own perception. If you spiritualise the meaning of all scripture, you make it subjective and have abandoned objective truth for imagination. I would agree that scripture has spiritual meaning which we need to learn, but we're taught by scripture that the Old testament law bears the shadows of spiritual things in the heavenly places. Those spiritual truths didn't negate their physical shadows in this world and before the coming of Christ those shadows proceeded their spiritual manifestations. All things pointed forward to Christ. Since the incarnation, the spiritual manifestations proceed the physical shadows, but don't negate them. E.g. In Christ we immediately experience the redemption of our souls but await the full redemption of our bodies freed from sin. Christ is positioned at the center of reality and reality is both physical and spiritual. I could provide scripture to prove my point, but it all sounds too esoteric for most ears. You seem to have an adequate intellect so if you grasp what I'm asserting, you can investigate the scripture to see if it's true or just so much hog wash. I don't teach these things as they aren't relevant to sound doctrine, but it's not rocket science.

 

[JunChosen]

Well, if you say so, then it must be true. Forgive my use of logic, reason, and sound exegetical practice to communicate what the Holy Spirit teaches me.

That is your problem. I didn't say it but John. You are relying on your own logic, your own reasoning, and your own sound exegetical practices than that of the teachings of the Holy Spirit.

If I didn't know any better, I would say you sound like @Thruther who boasts in himself concerning the Tribulation. But reading all what he has commented on the subject, tells me he does not really know what he is talking about.

If we are to boast then our boasting should be on the Lord.

To God Be The Glory

 

[bbyrd009]

I get that, you're really not all that difficult to understand. In these days it's better to be unbelieving and well informed than to be believing but ignorant (those saints are at high risk and always have been.)

i guess its pretty easy for anyone to have beliefs that dont pan out? Thats why they are called beliefs i think

The only book I've read with Prince in the title was written by Machiavelli and it is by no stretch of the imagination a Christian book.

ha no, but it does get into how to manifest those types if i recall

I have a rather short attention span whenever someone denies what scripture plainly says.

ah, like what for instance? Not sure im getting you here

seems like anything that Scripture "plainly says," there is another Scripture that apparently contradicts it, at least in my experience

There are no spiritual adepts in Christianity. It isn't the way to spiritual enlightenment. Ecumenical councils would have you believe that it is and that there are many ways to arrive at truth, but in doing so they deny the word and make Christ a liar. I don't need a guru, I have the Holy Spirit as teacher.

my current theory is that its the three year olds who are prolly the spiritual adepts, yeh :)
so, a valid arg there might be that there is more than one way to arrive at the truth that we must needs forget most of what we know, at least

The cup of Christ is a remembrance of His sacrifice to be observed as a testimony until His return, not until some spiritual awakening.

well, so you say, but i suggest that as lightning flashes from east to west, in the twinkling of an eye, etc, these could be referring to what we might deem a "spiritual awakening?" We get sold on a "return" that cannot be Quoted, and the eerily similarity to the functions of Apollos is never discussed imo

In Christ we immediately experience the redemption of our souls but await the full redemption of our bodies freed from sin.

ha ok well beware the thief in the night imo
understand why the pimps and hoes are beating you into the kingdom
.

I could provide scripture to prove my point, but it all sounds too esoteric for most ears.

hmm, you think? I guess the relevant Scriptures for that are well enough known; how they are interpreted is a different matter though eh? Wisdom is hidden from the wise

You seem to have an adequate intellect so if you grasp what I'm asserting, you can investigate the scripture to see if it's true or just so much hog wash.

well, for that i much prefer to get a direct statement of any assertion, and then test it against Scripture...but i have learned to start from the assumption that everything i know, even right now today, is wrong

I don't teach these things as they aren't relevant to sound doctrine, but it's not rocket science.

ah, you are a teacher? Ordained? Wasnt aware :)

 

[Truther]

We have a big gap here...the Holy Spirit isn't the church....the church consists of the saints who follow Christ...He is the chief Cornerstone and we are commanded to build upon what He first laid as our foundation.

When the Holy Ghost is taken, the church is taken..correct?

 

[Heart2Soul]

When the Holy Ghost is taken, the church is taken..correct?

I don't know for certainty but I think when Jesus comes is when He takes the church.

 

[Bobby Jo]

I don't know for certainty but I think when Jesus comes is when He takes the church.

Ummmmmmm, it would seem to me that at the end of the Millennial Kingdom when Jesus leaves the earth and ascends to the New Jerusalem, -- he takes his church along with HIM! :)

Bobby Jo

 

[michaelvpardo]

That is your problem. I didn't say it but John. You are relying on your own logic, your own reasoning, and your own sound exegetical practices than that of the teachings of the Holy Spirit.

If I didn't know any better, I would say you sound like @Thruther who boasts in himself concerning the Tribulation. But reading all what he has commented on the subject, tells me he does not really know what he is talking about.

If we are to boast then our boasting should be on the Lord.

To God Be The Glory

A powerful mind is a gift from God and I won't apologize for it. "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limitations" Albert Einstein

 

[Truther]

I don't know for certainty but I think when Jesus comes is when He takes the church.

When Jesus comes it is after the marriage supper of the lamb....meaning the church was not invited....


7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.


Then the return of Jesus Christ occurs...


11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

 

[michaelvpardo]

ah, you are a teacher? Ordained? Wasnt aware :)

I was in the middle of a lengthy post, trying to explain how I've been saddled with teaching tasks repeatedly since elementary school when a web page for some new (and strange) social media platform popped up on my device with an offer to join and wiped out my post. The same thing happened last night when I was on this site. Seems like the site has been hacked and comprimised, but it could just be my device. Kinda makes me hesitant to post things meant for the body of Christ but not for the world.
In answer to your question, the Baptist churches that I attended, including the one that I was a member of for about a decade, didn't seem that big on ordination for anyone but the pastors. One elderly pastor did the laying on of hands and prayer for a nursing home worship service ministry I started and ran for a few years. Some called me a "natural " when I was called upon to give a scriptural based message, but teaching was never really my calling. All elders are to be able to teach and at least one of my pastors believed that all Christians should be striving to have the level of maturity to be an elder. Hermeneutics and the methods of sound biblical exegesis were a part of adult Sunday school (which had fairly good attendance for a relatively small congregation.)
As a ministry leader, I tried to enlist other men with sound understanding to participate in teaching in our eldercare ministry, but it seemed that most had neither the inclination to teach or the willingness to do the necessary work for preparing a lesson or message. It is definitely work whether guided by the Holy Spirit or not and there is the biblical admonition to keep the number of teachers down because of the higher accountability.
The first few times that I took the pulpit it was definitely with a little trepidation, but I found that some prayer beforehand and a bit of release to His Spirit quite empowering (and I don't recall anyone ever calling me a jerk, throwing stones, or other disparagements.)
The word of God is entirely trustworthy and not at all contradictory (though it may sometimes seem that way.) Words can be tricky, sometimes subject to multiple interpretations, but there's a reason that the word of God is called the sword of the Spirit and a revealer of the heart. The way that we read and interpret scripture reveals something of our own hearts and not always something good. Doctrinal conflict is actually one way in which God reveals to the congregation who is approved (in their calling) and who is not. If we have His Spirit, then his Spirit can inform us of His approval or disapproval of a teaching and has for nearly 2000 years, but the subjective element of teaching provides room for the flesh to corrupt the message. Cults exist because carnal messages (such as prosperity doctrine and legalism) have strong appeal to our sinful nature according to the flesh. Legalism tends to survive because it remains rooted in God 's word and our fleshly nature strives to maintain a righteousness of our own even after receiving the free gift of the righteousness of God in Christ.
I've been called to prophetic ministry (and I don't mean new revelation). The church's prophets are more like a kind of spiritual doctor that is given a gift to discern issues that need correction and might be totally missed by a pastor or other elders. I know this is true because the pastors that were open to hearing the relevant scripture and message were able to deal with serious issues before they became causes for divisions and the sin that goes with people seeking their own way. Other Pastors not inclined to hear lost their congregations, and in one case was the cause of a church's doors being closed indefinitely.
Prophesy has a teaching element because it calls upon the word in application to the situation at hand. It's not an enjoyable ministry by nature, but you do what you're called to do, or you walk away and fail in the purpose of your calling. We don't get much respect, because people are wary of false prophets and no one really wants to admit their failings, but it's a necessary job when large numbers of the congregation are walking on the brink of apostasy and error has found a foothold in the flesh. I'd have been content mowing lawns and guiding parishioners to parking, but someone has to do the dirty work, someone has to play the cop, someone has to forsake popularity and approval to keep the body healthy, and it's the Lord who calls according to His election and wisdom. It's the Lord who equips for the calling. It's the Lord who places us in the body and works powerfully in our weakness. We're just supposed to trust and obey, let the Lord do His work in us and through us.I
I kind of like being semi-retired, but when God calls it's good to be available. I'm confident that God will more than make up for the grief I've been dished out by those who didn't know better or were determined to make their own way. He's been generous to me in this life and I suppose the scars will be gone when I see Him face to face. I'm grateful though to know some of the sufferings of Christ, but the joy of His presence is a comfort in all seasons. I just wish some of them were a bit shorter.
If you read this far, good for you because I'm ramblin' a bit. That kinda comes with age and diminishing faculties. God is more glorified in our weakness than our strength, so I guess that I can't complain. I'm getting tired of backing up to correct erroneous autocorrections and have gone way off topic. So my only real suggestion to you is to keep reading the scripture, keep questioning what others have to say and measure it against the standard of scripture, and keep in mind that God is not the author of confusion, but can reconcile what seems contradictory to us with the pure understanding of His Spirit.