Is healing in Jesus' name evidence of authenticity?

[Scoot]

I was having a discussion with someone close to me the other day. The claim that was put forward was this:

If someone in ministry prays for someone else to get healed in the name of Jesus - and that person is healed - that the person could only be healed in Jesus name if that's what was prayed - and therefore it is evidence of a persons ministry being authentic.

My perspective (which may be quite wrong which is why I raise it here) - is that this is a dangerous precedence to set to know if the ministry is authentic or not. The scripture that was in my mind was Matthew 7:22 - "Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?"

My current understanding is that using signs and wonders to discern a persons ministry as being authentic is a poor standard, and that the scriptures should be our foundation reference point. Signs and wonders is what we will see in the end from the anti-christ and his minions.

I have heard others mention that the Holy Spirit will tell them if a ministry is authentic, but even in this I have concerns - because from the same group of people I hear many make claims they've heard from the Holy Spirit that contradict each other - all convinced that the voice they've heard is God's and everyone else is wrong.

Would you disagree with my concerns that making the statement above is dangerous and can set people up for deception, and if so can you please help me see this (from scripture). :)

 

[Rita]

Hi Scoot,
I am in the camp that believes in the ministry of the Holy Spirit. However that verse does not say ‘ Everyone ‘ that prophesies , casts out demons, heals ect will not be known by the Lord.
I can only speak from my own experiences , but I have never known the Holy Spirit to be out of line with scripture - we know there will be false prophets, we know that many were operating in gifts that were not from God within scripture - so there will counterfeit and deceptions. However it doesn’t mean that every single person that has a ministry will be false, deceived or counterfeit- hence why things need to be tested.
If you take the healing ministries of those like Benny Hin ( only as an example ) It would be interesting to follow up on all those who claimed to be healed when he did his ‘ Shows ‘ - were they healed, saved, or were they merely responding to an emotional reaction.
I cannot work out if you are saying that anyone who claims to have such ministries, or claims to hear from the Holy Spirit is really of Satan and one of his minions - can you clarify if that is what you are saying ?
Do you believe that the gifts ended with the apostles ?
Rita

 

[Angelina]

Hi Scoot. Prayer is not the same as laying hands on someone and they get healed. Although prayer can certainly move the hand of God and people can get healed that way, it does not indicate that the person who prayed has a gift of healing. Prayer can also open the door for a non-believer to be willing to hear and in turn, receive the gospel and therefore be led to salvation by another believer but that also does not make the one who prayed as having the same gift as the one who ministered in that area. ( If that is what you are meaning).

 

[Scoot]

Hi @Rita and @Angelina

Thanks for your replies.

And sorry for the confusion. To clarify - No - I am definitely not saying anyone who prays in Jesus name for healing that receives one is not authentic. On the contrary - we are told to pray for the sick, and I'm convinced that God can perform miracles whenever He wants, and using whomever he wants. My current perspective is that I don't believe we can judge one way nor the other on this issue.

Rather - my concern was for using this as justification that when this occurs it is proof that the ministry is authentic - without exception and the possible traps it opens up.

Like all things counterfeit - there is the real otherwise there would be no need for the counterfeit. So I am not against praying for the sick, and I can see how it can be used by God. My concern was solely on the statement that if someone lays on hands and prays for the sick and they are healed (or have the appearance of being healed) - that it is evidence that the ministry is authentic and should not be questioned.

My thoughts (at present - open to challenges) is that our discernment should be based more on scripture than what we see with our eyes - as I'm concerned that the enemy uses signs and wonders to deceive many into believing that false prophets ministries are indeed authentic and from God, but I'm wanting to get a larger perspective - because as I mentioned - someone close to me disagreed with me quite strongly on this that it is irrefutable evidence to see someone heal in Jesus name that they are authentic.

 

[Enoch111]

Would you disagree with my concerns that making the statement above is dangerous and can set people up for deception, and if so can you please help me see this (from scripture)

We should be willing to give ministers the benefit of the doubt. Only if their gospel, or doctrine, or messages contradict Bible truth should there be concerns. Many faith healers have false doctrines.

 

[Angelina]

Scoot ~

My current understanding is that using signs and wonders to discern a persons ministry as being authentic is a poor standard, and that the scriptures should be our foundation reference point. Signs and wonders is what we will see in the end from the anti-christ and his minions.

The above comment is what I cannot understand or perhaps our understanding differs here. I do not see healing as a sign or a wonder. I see healing as a gift. What I understand you to be saying is ~ just because someone got healed, doesn't mean their ministry in healing is from God... Is that what you are saying? I understand that you are also saying, the way to determine whether your healing of someone is from God, is by scripture. Have I got this right brother?

 

[Helen]

Scoot ~

The above comment is what I cannot understand or perhaps our understanding differs here. I do not see healing as a sign or a wonder. I see healing as a gift. What I understand you to be saying is ~ just because someone got healed, doesn't mean their ministry in healing is from God... Is that what you are saying? I understand that you are also saying, the way to determine whether your healing of someone is from God, is by scripture. Have I got this right brother?

I wish my two kids could relieve healing as easily as they did when they toddlers ( they do too....now ages 58 & 57 )
I always prayed over them as children...the youngest often had ear aches ...she would run to me crying and saying “Ear mummy”....I would speak the healing name of Jesus over her , and every single time she ran away happy. I never claimed or even thought of it as ‘a ministry’....it was just that I believed Jesus gave us His name as a badge of His authority . And I believe that we are healed by His Stripes .

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Rain falls upon the righteous and the wicked.

I would indeed not believe in someone’s work just because a perceived instance of healing. It can be one piece of evidence, but should not be the only nor the central one.

 

[Scoot]

Hi Enoch111,

We should be willing to give ministers the benefit of the doubt. Only if their gospel, or doctrine, or messages contradict Bible truth should there be concerns. Many faith healers have false doctrines.

I think this is close to where I am coming from (and summed up better). Thanks...

Scoot ~

The above comment is what I cannot understand or perhaps our understanding differs here. I do not see healing as a sign or a wonder. I see healing as a gift. What I understand you to be saying is ~ just because someone got healed, doesn't mean their ministry in healing is from God... Is that what you are saying? I understand that you are also saying, the way to determine whether your healing of someone is from God, is by scripture. Have I got this right brother?

Sorry for the confusion Angelina. I think Enoch111 summed it up better, but as a rough example let's say that there is a minister out there that is claiming that they heal in Jesus name. However they preach a gospel that doesn't require repentance, and doesn't deal with sin. Their followers claim that the gospel message can't be false, and they can't be a false minister - because they pray for healing in the name of Jesus - and they claim to see healing occur.

My concern is if we base whether someone's ministry is authentic or not from whether they are seeing healing when praying for people and not by comparing the doctrine they preach to scripture, we are setting people up for deception for anyone who can come and do any sorts of miracles, signs, wonders, etc. The person I was talking to was indicating to me that is wrong - that if someone is praying for healing in Jesus name and we see healing - that's evidence that they are authentic.

I hope I've said that clearly - I know that sometimes I don't express myself well - sorry for that.

 

[farouk]

I wish my two kids could relieve healing as easily as they did when they toddlers ( they do too....now ages 58 & 57 )
I always prayed over them as children...the youngest often had ear aches ...she would run to me crying and saying “Ear mummy”....I would speak the healing name of Jesus over her , and every single time she ran away happy. I never claimed or even thought of it as ‘a ministry’....it was just that I believed Jesus gave us His name as a badge of His authority . And I believe that we are healed by His Stripes .

@Helen A prayer warrior remains in that occupation until one's days are done. The Lord Jesus Himself 'ever liveth to make intercession' (Hebrews 7.25).

 

[marksman]

Mark 9:40 For who is not against us is for us.
Matthew 12:30 The one who is not with Me is against Me, and the one who does not gather with Me scatters.
Acts 4:14 But seeing the man standing with them, the one having been healed, they had nothing to say against him.

Three important verses.

The first, any person who is not against the Lord is for him so I would suggest that is a mark of authenticity.
The second, if the person is the opposite and is against the Lord, then that shows his inauthenticity.
The third is the best testimony for the healing ministry. Who gets the glory?

 

[Josho]

Scoot ~

The above comment is what I cannot understand or perhaps our understanding differs here. I do not see healing as a sign or a wonder. I see healing as a gift. What I understand you to be saying is ~ just because someone got healed, doesn't mean their ministry in healing is from God... Is that what you are saying? I understand that you are also saying, the way to determine whether your healing of someone is from God, is by scripture. Have I got this right brother?

I just wonder what is your view when it comes to people being able to say "Jesus is Lord"

As we know the Bible says

1 Corinthians 12:3
"Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit."

 

[amadeus]

Scoot ~

The above comment is what I cannot understand or perhaps our understanding differs here. I do not see healing as a sign or a wonder. I see healing as a gift. What I understand you to be saying is ~ just because someone got healed, doesn't mean their ministry in healing is from God... Is that what you are saying? I understand that you are also saying, the way to determine whether your healing of someone is from God, is by scripture. Have I got this right brother?

Perhaps the situation of Judas Iscariot comes into play here?

"And he ordained twelve, that they should be with him, and that he might send them forth to preach,
And to have power to heal sicknesses, and to cast out devils:" Mark 3:14-15

"And he called unto him the twelve, and began to send them forth by two and two; and gave them power over unclean spirits;" Mark 6:7

And Judas Iscariot, one of the twelve, went unto the chief priests, to betray him unto them." Mark 14:10

 

[Dcopymope]

@Scoot

This is why we have scripture giving us instruction. If said "faith healer" or "prophet" expresses beliefs that clearly contradicts what is plainly stated, then your suspicion of said individual is justified. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise where they will send you off on this wild goose chase with their vain philosophy, or about the holy spirit. There is really no concrete way to prove any one even has the holy spirit, knowing Satan and the beast arrives with lying signs and wonders, performing miracles, even rising from the dead after a receiving "mortal head wound".

 

[Josho]

I just wonder what is your view when it comes to people being able to say "Jesus is Lord"

As we know the Bible says

1 Corinthians 12:3
"Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit."

I will tag @rockytopva in this as well, it's a subject he knows a lot in, I believe.

 

[Waiting on him]

Perhaps the situation of Judas Iscariot comes into play here?

"And he ordained twelve, that they should be with him, and that he might send them forth to preach,
And to have power to heal sicknesses, and to cast out devils:" Mark 3:14-15

"And he called unto him the twelve, and began to send them forth by two and two; and gave them power over unclean spirits;" Mark 6:7
My opinion is the healing shown in scripture was for the Jews to see that Jesus was in fact who He said He was. I personally do not need any sign to believe in His authenticity, maybe all this we see today is just many people running around claiming I'm a healer is only a lot of fearful people who lack faith, or possibly only individuals looking for an angle to exploit those who are fearful.
And Judas Iscariot, one of the twelve, went unto the chief priests, to betray him unto them." Mark 14:10

 

[rockytopva]

I will tag @rockytopva in this as well, it's a subject he knows a lot in, I believe.

Thank you! In my web site the Jesus healing video is doing great. In topic with this thread I would say that it should be all about Jesus and less on the individual. There are folks out there with an eye on their own personal gain or doing things to promote their ministry as a money making endeavor. They can do this and their God (source of provision) becomes their ministry and they loose site on why they should be doing things.

 

[Josho]

Thank you! In my web site the Jesus healing video is doing great. In topic with this thread I would say that it should be all about Jesus and less on the individual. There are folks out there with an eye on their own personal gain or doing things to promote their ministry as a money making endeavor. They can do this and their God (source of provision) becomes their ministry and they loose site on why they should be doing things.

Hey rocky, this is my view on this topic to the OP.

My view is there are 3 forms of healing.

1- The Lord Jesus Christ (Power of the Holy Spirit) - A true supernatural miracle of God.

2- The natural brains that God gave us to come up with wonderful cures and fixes. (Doctors, nurses, pharmacists, medical scientists.)

3- Then there is the dangerous, a healing from the powers of darkness, witchdoctors, shamans, etc. a healing done under the name of other spirits, aka witchcraft.

Then there is

Matthew 7:22

Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?"

I believe Matthew 7:22 falls into the first category of miracles. These people are still Christians, and yes I believe the Holy Spirit is still working through them, but they are profiting of from the miracles, I cannot find the verse right now to quote for this, but a few Christian's prostitute the gifts from God, which is a no no.

 

[101G]

Addressing the OP, good topic, and contemporary. in saying that, the Lord Jesus God almighty is contemporary also, because he is the same today, yesterday and forever. so lets go to the OT where the standard was set. Enoch111, and amadeus hit on it also, as well as you, when you said,

I have heard others mention that the Holy Spirit will tell them if a ministry is authentic, but even in this I have concerns - because from the same group of people I hear many make claims they've heard from the Holy Spirit that contradict each other - all convinced that the voice they've heard is God's and everyone else is wrong.

well, one need to understand the difference between, A. a false prophet. B, a prophet or person who speak presumptuously, and C. the true prophet of God.
if what the Man or the woman of God say is TRUE. as pointed out, even those who cast out demons in ... JESUS ... Name, ... was not his, and as said, even Judas Iscariot, who was a devil, God picked him. so evil as well as good has it place in God economy. so as said, lets go to the trend setters and see the test.
up first, the prophet Samuel, the TRUE Prophet of GOD. 1 Samuel 3:15 "And Samuel lay until the morning, and opened the doors of the house of the LORD. And Samuel feared to shew Eli the vision."
1 Samuel 3:16 "Then Eli called Samuel, and said, Samuel, my son. And he answered, Here am I."
1 Samuel 3:17 "And he said, What is the thing that the LORD hath said unto thee? I pray thee hide it not from me: God do so to thee, and more also, if thou hide any thing from me of all the things that he said unto thee."
1 Samuel 3:18 "And Samuel told him every whit, and hid nothing from him. And he said, It is the LORD: let him do what seemeth him good."
1 Samuel 3:19 "And Samuel grew, and the LORD was with him, and did let none of his words fall to the ground."
1 Samuel 3:20 "And all Israel from Dan even to Beersheba knew that Samuel was established to be a prophet of the LORD."
1 Samuel 3:21 "And the LORD appeared again in Shiloh: for the LORD revealed himself to Samuel in Shiloh by the word of the LORD."

sdo what Samuel spoke was what the LORD said. he didn't add nor take away from God's word.

next anyone in GENERAL, who speak presumptuously, Deuteronomy 18:20 "But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die."
Deuteronomy 18:21 "And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?"
Deuteronomy 18:22 "When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him."

now understand this, not all prophet or people of God who may speak presumptuously at a time or two are not false prophets, (of which the false one who intently try to lead God people astray), but there are those, who hear a word from God but incorrectly interpret it or misapply it as was the case with Nathan the Prophet who repented for telling David incorrectly that it was God's will for him, David, to build God a temple to dwell in. but do you see the difference, he "repented" and got it right. but then you have the case of whayt I call RETURN TRUTH, which was spoken but was changed, or RETURNED in truth. as was in the case when king Hezekiah was sick unto death, God sent the prophet Isaiah to him to tell him to get his house in order for he was about to die. but king Hezekiah, upon hearing the words of the prophet, WHICH WAS TRUE ... FROM GOD, turned to the wall and prayed. God heard king Hezekiah prayer and "REPENTED" and sent Isaiah right back to Hezekiah to tell him that fifteen years was added to his life. side note, this is why I know that things are not set in stone, like "Predestination" .... which only means that it will happen eventually happen, but man's free will ..... to pray, or unless prohibit by the Lord changes things, but eventually the thing will come to pass. now back to the last one's the false prophets, see, and read 2 Peter chapter 2 these intentionally mean to mislead astray God's people and what they say will not come to pass. they will alway ... update, change, and see something selse to add, over, and over.

PICJAG.

 

[Scoot]

Hi Everyone for your replies.

Even though I'm not responding to each one individually - I am taking it all in - and really appreciate all who have taken the time out to respond! I can see that this is indeed not a simple topic at all, as I first presumed.

Mark 9:40 For who is not against us is for us.
Matthew 12:30 The one who is not with Me is against Me, and the one who does not gather with Me scatters.
Acts 4:14 But seeing the man standing with them, the one having been healed, they had nothing to say against him.

Three important verses.

The first, any person who is not against the Lord is for him so I would suggest that is a mark of authenticity.
The second, if the person is the opposite and is against the Lord, then that shows his inauthenticity.
The third is the best testimony for the healing ministry. Who gets the glory?

@marksman - the verse that you quoted is one I admit I am struggling with (and probably my poor interpretation of it). I love it, because it helps keep denominational wars at bay - and allows the ministry of Christ not to be exclusive. But I also struggle with it for a few reasons.

Firstly if those who are not against Jesus are for Him - does that mean everyone from:

- Faith Healers, through to
- Ultra conservatives, through to
- Catholicism, JW's and Mormon's, through to
- Those mentioned in Matthew 7:22...

... are all authentic in their ministry and are for Jesus ? (I'm the sort of person that when someone sets a standard - I apply that across the board to see how it sits). As such - I struggle with that verse because I haven't had the revelation (yet) of how it complements with other verses in scripture. (Because at this stage - I struggle to see how it's a blanket clause that fits false prophets, Judas, etc). I know I'm seeing wrong - because if I'm seeing right - the scripture would compliment other's. I'm just trying to find my way through it.

As for Jesus getting the glory with healing - respectfully - my concern is when the opposite happens - such as a very questionable healing (unfortunately the following is what I have been exposed to most of my life) . As an example - I have seen many times Christian's claim healing - such as someone having cancer - then goes through treatment and comes out the other side with no signs of cancer - God gets the glory as though it's a supernatural miracle, and the chemo ignored. In instances when that person's cancer then comes back a short time later - it's not questioned why it's back if God did indeed heal that person. (He who the son sets free is free indeed, and I would suspect that all the healing we saw with Jesus were permanent) - but the fact that the cancer came back and within a few short years - it's swept under the carpet. It just doesn't seem genuine to me.

I'm not here to judge - just trying to discern the truth. (I've just always had a strong desire for truth and genuineness). From my perspective (possibly quite wrong - I don't know) - God hasn't done any supernatural miracle in that situation. The doctors may have extended that persons life by a few years using drugs (and the claim could be that God used the doctors) - but when non Christians see Christians make such claims - I think it does the opposite of glorifying God - rather it makes Christian's look (at best) like fantasy chasers who only look at what they want to be true and ignore everything else, or at worst straight out liars.

When I hear testimonies (or when I saw with my own eyes) cripples go to healing crusades, and a lot of healing claimed for non-visible ailments, but none of the cripples healed (and in some cases ignored) - I don't think it glorifies God, but rather does the opposite.

Yet - these people profess to be healing in Jesus name, and appear to be 'for' Him - and I've been told that I should accept that as authenticity of their ministry.

Thank you so much for replying.