Fear God or Presume acceptance

[FollowHim]

Fear is only good when one one needs to run away, it is what start all the stuff inside you preparing the body to escape. Perfect love casts all all fear, when we walk in faith what is there to fear.

You cannot love what your fear, because there is no fear in Love.

When I drive my car I need fear, literally need it, to understand in 4 seconds I can be dead if I do not pay attention. I must stay away from other cars, watch my speed, changing road conditions.
If I relax I have an accident.

John only talked about fear linked to punishment. Scripture is full of Godly fear, fear that saves us, fear that teachs us to be careful. Fear is a feeling, a real focused necessary part of life, respect and survival.

I suspect those talking against healthy fear are victims of abuse by others and anger they find hard to constrain.

My son had an anger management issue. I had to play act anger to match his raging sea. I am sure fear was part of this, which confuses things. My daughter got angry once and bit me so hard, she went, oh no, high jump time.
Funnily I knew and saw her response which muted what I did, though it really hurt, things were limited.

I fear for those who claim to know Jesus and discard fear, as Jesus says,
Fear God who can destroy the body and soul in hell Matt 10:28

Theology that cannot face all of scripture is emotionally relative to trauma and not Christ. A God who put whole groups to the sword, swallowed rebels into the ground, burnt priests who dishonoured Him, should be feared. Clearly some are truly deluded about real risk.

One such pastor claimed loving others was not part of the gospel. Sadly he has now discovered what that means, because He has gone to meet his maker. God bless you

 

[FollowHim]

We have a God who's promises are Yes and Amen, who has given us salvation by Faith, what part of God can you see failing??

Jesus is yes and amen to those who want to see God face to face, to know Him and be one with Him in heart, soul and mind.

Is this your hearts desire or just a way of assuaging fear?

I know paralysing fear, suicidal despair and trauma, pain that will not leave or stop, overwhelming loneliness and yet Jesus my light and hope shinning through.

He is my everything, on Him do I rest, His words sing in my heart, and His wisdom are light to my soul. Is this the faith you are speaking of my friend or some passive acknowledgement that Jesus is quite a guy, from a distance, and definitely do not get too close.

God bless you

 

[mjrhealth]

Jesus is yes and amen to those who want to see God face to face, to know Him and be one with Him in heart, soul and mind.

Is this your hearts desire or just a way of assuaging fear?

I know paralysing fear, suicidal despair and trauma, pain that will not leave or stop, overwhelming loneliness and yet Jesus my light and hope shinning through.

He is my everything, on Him do I rest, His words sing in my heart, and His wisdom are light to my soul. Is this the faith you are speaking of my friend or some passive acknowledgement that Jesus is quite a guy, from a distance, and definitely do not get too close.

God bless you

But you see, all you have is bible knowledge yet you deny the Spirit, I have seeing Christ face to face so I have no fear of Him, but this you will deny because it doesnt fit in with your idea of who He is, I have being closer than you think as have many Imperfect believers.

 

[mjrhealth]

When I drive my car I need fear, literally need it, to understand in 4 seconds I can be dead if I do not pay attention. I must stay away from other cars, watch my speed, changing road conditions.
If I relax I have an accident.

John only talked about fear linked to punishment. Scripture is full of Godly fear, fear that saves us, fear that teachs us to be careful. Fear is a feeling, a real focused necessary part of life, respect and survival.

I suspect those talking against healthy fear are victims of abuse by others and anger they find hard to constrain.

My son had an anger management issue. I had to play act anger to match his raging sea. I am sure fear was part of this, which confuses things. My daughter got angry once and bit me so hard, she went, oh no, high jump time.
Funnily I knew and saw her response which muted what I did, though it really hurt, things were limited.

I fear for those who claim to know Jesus and discard fear, as Jesus says,
Fear God who can destroy the body and soul in hell Matt 10:28

Theology that cannot face all of scripture is emotionally relative to trauma and not Christ. A God who put whole groups to the sword, swallowed rebels into the ground, burnt priests who dishonoured Him, should be feared. Clearly some are truly deluded about real risk.

One such pastor claimed loving others was not part of the gospel. Sadly he has now discovered what that means, because He has gone to meet his maker. God bless you

Oh excuse me, you must fear God or you wont make it, as I said, you have no idea of who God is, its is only what you have read, knowledge puffeth up.

I am not in fear of God as any many who knows God cannot fear Him, God is Love He isnt teh devil,

 

[FollowHim]

Oh excuse me, you must fear God or you wont make it, as I said, you have no idea of who God is, its is only what you have read, knowledge puffeth up.

I am not in fear of God as any many who knows God cannot fear Him, God is Love He isnt teh devil,

"you have no idea of who God is"

Let us look at what Paul has to say about this.
20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.
22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools
Rom 1:20-22

So I know God through His creation, which is something I echo in Pauls words, ie. I know this and Paul says it.

13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.
14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law,
15 since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.)
Rom 2:13-15

8 I desire to do your will, O my God; your law is within my heart.
Psalm 40:7

26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.
Eze 36:26-27

I remember reading the whole bible for the first time, and the feeling I got was love and care and man rejecting it and going their own way, generation after generation. What was strange was Gods words echoed in my heart and spoke of a place I would call home.

So what I have is what God planted there and made grow, scripture merely confirmed and feed what He had already created.
Now if my heart confirms the word of God, yet you deny it, who knows God and the Lord Jesus Christ?
Jesus himself said we should fear God, Paul says we should fear God, the whole of scripture declares God should be feared and listened to.

So it suggests it is not I who does not know God. God bless you

There is an ironic point here. The apostles thought when Jesus judged people who rejected Him as worthy of judgement they suggested fire should come down from heaven.

52 And he sent messengers on ahead, who went into a Samaritan village to get things ready for him;
53 but the people there did not welcome him, because he was heading for Jerusalem.
54 When the disciples James and John saw this, they asked, "Lord, do you want us to call fire down from heaven to destroy them?"
55 But Jesus turned and rebuked them,
56 and they went to another village.
Luke 9:52-56

Jesus's ministry was of blessing not judgement. What He said was this,

47 "As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it.
48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day."
John 12:47-48

Discounting Jesus's eternal words is discounting your judge and jury, and I counsel against this, because on that day, they will stand against us all if we have heard and not responded.

23 And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted up to the skies? No, you will go down to the depths. If the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day.
24 But I tell you that it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you
Matt 11:23-24

 

[FollowHim]

Oh excuse me, you must fear God or you wont make it, as I said, you have no idea of who God is, its is only what you have read, knowledge puffeth up.

I am not in fear of God as any many who knows God cannot fear Him, God is Love He isnt teh devil,

"God is love He isn't the devil"

There is a moral and emotional issue here. Disabled, suffering people are born every day. People die excruciatingly painful deaths, some are abused and totally alone, lost and spinning into over dose and nothingness. Whole towns, cities are wiped out, lost is abuse and sexual perversity, sophisticated tidy, clean people set out to destroy and murder a whole nation clinically and with vile intent, yet finally were defeated and overcome.

This God who created and sits over this crazy world is not a fuzzy warm creature who just wants the best for all and invites all into His soft and fluffy heaven where everything is calmness and roses.

This God is Holy, unapproachable, different, innately pure, honest, truthful and deadly and brilliantly real and so grounded any contradiction evaporates in His presence. There is no double dealing or pretence, no being one thing and then another, either one is real or just vapour, blown away. So a vacuous person wants things because others have them, wants power because they get attention, wants safety because then they can do what they want without having to listen to anybody else. They are victims of their own sea of emotional desires waring with others to get on top at any cost. In Gods Kingdom, they do not exist. Because once things are resolved there is nothing there, just confusion caused by sin and defence of the heart from pain and hurt. But this is not life, it is a shadow existence where the soul is only acting on what society demands or expects and the real person can never be expressed or set free, always imprisoned behind the walls and battlements.

When Jesus says He is coming to set the prisoner free, which prisoner do you think He is referring to?

 

[FollowHim]

There is something ironic here for me.
I was told I was to give an answer to a question, and not a sermon.
You may dear reader, understand the person asking the question thinks they have the answer, nice and small, like a cause and effect, job done, argument won. If the answer is unexpected, goes way beyond their connections and ability to express, it is rather difficult and shocking.

I remember when I first read Pauls letters aged 15, they sounded full of sense as I spoke the words out loud, except I did not know what they meant or what caused them to be spoken, or if I could recreate them myself unless I learnt them by rote. Now I find I am using the same arguments and logic and framework as Paul, though not fully worked through, but much closer and succinct.

My dream, if you can call it a dream, was to reach a place where Gods word flowed from me, was part of me, was something I dwelt in and knew from my being. Why? Because I knew in my heart this was life and I wanted more of it.

And nothing in this world is a small answer, though it can be summarised into a few words to distinguish it from other ideas, the truth in itself is infinite, because the subject is God, the King of Kings.

I love Gods name, "I am" This is philosophically so profound. People claim God is an invention of people around 800 bc in Palestine. But these ideas and points are unbelievably balanced and pragmatic, so useful English common law founded upon them, as well as basic human rights.

In a world of self interest and greed, with our sophistication it is hard for us to acknowledge that God is our foundation and door which opened up the wonders of truth and exploration. God bless you

 

[mjrhealth]

There is something ironic here for me.
I was told I was to give an answer to a question, and not a sermon.
You may dear reader, understand the person asking the question thinks they have the answer, nice and small, like a cause and effect, job done, argument won. If the answer is unexpected, goes way beyond their connections and ability to express, it is rather difficult and shocking.

I remember when I first read Pauls letters aged 15, they sounded full of sense as I spoke the words out loud, except I did not know what they meant or what caused them to be spoken, or if I could recreate them myself unless I learnt them by rote. Now I find I am using the same arguments and logic and framework as Paul, though not fully worked through, but much closer and succinct.

My dream, if you can call it a dream, was to reach a place where Gods word flowed from me, was part of me, was something I dwelt in and knew from my being. Why? Because I knew in my heart this was life and I wanted more of it.

And nothing in this world is a small answer, though it can be summarised into a few words to distinguish it from other ideas, the truth in itself is infinite, because the subject is God, the King of Kings.

I love Gods name, "I am" This is philosophically so profound. People claim God is an invention of people around 800 bc in Palestine. But these ideas and points are unbelievably balanced and pragmatic, so useful English common law founded upon them, as well as basic human rights.

In a world of self interest and greed, with our sophistication it is hard for us to acknowledge that God is our foundation and door which opened up the wonders of truth and exploration. God bless you

Yes you quote a lot of scripture, yet you have no idea of who God is. And that is where so many christians remain, never going to Christ to learn from Him the one who is the truth.

 

[FollowHim]

Yes you quote a lot of scripture, yet you have no idea of who God is. And that is where so many christians remain, never going to Christ to learn from Him the one who is the truth.

My friend, there is a clue here, in scripture as to who God is.
If I quote psychology, sociology, morality and emotional feelings you will say that is all subjective and of the world and only personal to me.
If I quote scripture that reflects the very revelations God lays on my heart, that is just quoting scripture and I have no idea.

So I laugh. You discount everything other than your own revelation and construction. Now if you are your own witness, as Jesus says, I can discount you, literally. And worse still you are standing in judgement over me and saying I am not believer, do not have the Holy Spirit, and know nothing of God. Is this your defence? The tower built on sand. When the storms come it will fall down. Yes you believe you are strong, no one can touch you, you have it all sussed, and those "christians" do not go to Christ and learn from Him.

Taking advice is part of the sign of wisdom. I say this as a critical thinker, where doubt is part of the learning process, everything needs exploring and nothing can be assumed, taken as read. When people like yourself end up in this dismissive tirade, it just makes me laugh. A lifetime of questioning, following, weighing things up, being cautious, testing the ground, stepping forward, being changed is not undermined by being dismissive. It is like a slap in the face, and I am used to this, it disciplines my mind and heart. If you ever evangelise in the street, with friends, on forums, you know you need to be made of sterner stuff.

So my friend, if you love truth, seek it out, and realise we are all learners on this walk with the Lord, always in need, always seeing just the next step, and knowing there is so much more ahead, Praise the Lord, Amen.

 

[FollowHim]

Are people without love speaking from the heart all the same?
We must be either like them, flawed and contradictatory or lying hypocrites who do not know the Lord.

But the clue might just be in who is flawed and who is contradictatory. As someone said angrily, if I am a sinner and need to repent, I am in trouble, and started to swear and be abusive. It was like the veneer of trying to be a person of faith had cracked, and the anger at not being accepted and patted on the back was finally too much.

How lost are we without the Lord? This was a question I asked aged 16, 44 years ago. And the answer is very lost, because our way of looking at life and everything is distorted by our hurt defended hearts and we miss-interpret and change everything into simplistic self centred simple reactions, which make us the victim of unfair jibes. And however we throw out thorns and thistles they are deserved because they should have known and cared, so "I do not care."

What we know is Jesus has balance and power way beyond our own, and when he meets people and appropriately deals with them.
So who wants to be like Jesus, to walk this walk and have this peace? To set the prisoner free, to not be a victim of the cycle of hope, hurt, disappointment, lashing out, withdrawal, time and time again.

We are not a society of people tearing each other apart, but rather a people of love and encouragement through healing and restoration, to take blows and give back blessings. God bless you.

 

[FollowHim]

"never going to Christ to learn from Him the one who is the truth."

Blow me down, literally. Let us listen to who Jesus calls a wise person

24 Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.
25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock
Matt 7:24-25

I want to say these few words. I listened to Jesus and put His words into practice and He changed me, literally, I am not the man I used to be, and am going from glory to glory in what I see and can share and do.

As far as mental health goes, Jesus's words are life and healing, found our relationships and our fruit, speak to the heart, and in a few words minister and encourage others. So I wonder what a person who criticises someone who listens and follows Jesus and His word, actually means.

My suspicion this is flailing around for ammunition to fling at someone else who has answers one cannot accept. It is like telling a follower of Jesus who listens and follows Him to repent of sin and make peace with God. It is spoken by someone who in their heads has a very different view of what the other individual is and what being in God means.

The hatred and anger should for these folk be the sign of where they are. It is not in the Lord to any degree, because the sin literally in their lives testifies to the lack of the Holy Spirit, purity and holiness, let alone so little love and care, or even empathy. And from our perspective no one can get close to these folk, because it is just thorns and thistles once you get below the surface, and they are often so lost, they themselves are not sure what they actually are. I have tried a few times, got spat out very quickly, as if there is something wrong. Normally their answer is I was lying, am not what I appear to be, any excuse to deny the very power of what is before them. God bless you

 

[FollowHim]

Delusions of grandeur

"I met Jesus in the heavenlies and He told me what to do"
The problem is the speaker of these words of this heavenly experience does not match Gods word.
So who is right?

Authority is a difficult subject but simply it goes down through the centuries and our foundations in scripture. Scripture is Gods word, the cornerstone of everything, quoted by Jesus and laid down as eternal.

It is great people have individual experiences, but Gods word dominates as delusions, visions, experiences are subjective to the individuals involved with no ability to verify their authenticity. Jesus's authenticity was scripture, miracles, the disciples testimony, the death and resurrection. So everything must amplify and reflect this to be from the Lord. Everyone has dreams, has amazingly strong abilities to project and construct worlds that may or may not reflect reality. Some have had visions for hours and written books about them predicting the future, imminent, but been proven by events to be untrue, yet their theology and teaching and intent was sincere and good.

I know friends who would invent miracles to confirm their convictions about Jesus, because they feel this would help bring people to God.
I have friends who will go out and pray for pain related problems, and see God heal, yet this healing is perception of pain, not real healing like things being restored and confirmed by doctors.

I have great sympathy with these folk, but it is not authority that drives our lives. It is personal, and may or may not be helpful. It does not convey authority or rights to dismiss others, to demean or discourage those who sincerely listen to Jesus and follow. If anything it indicates heresy and delusion because the fruit is the opposite of the Holy Spirit to bring people deeper into the things of God.

"Thus says the Lord" - In the world of prophets people love old english to embellish a word from God. But in this world also there is so much error and lies, inventions of the imagination and reality, the world has already had a revival thousands of times and the church is full of victorious believers.

So if one does not want to sin against the Lord, caution should be taken, counsel, and listening to Gods revealed words, scripture, before the step to claim this is Gods powerful and truthful message to all, is taken. God bless you

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Oh excuse me, you must fear God or you wont make it, as I said, you have no idea of who God is, its is only what you have read, knowledge puffeth up.

I am not in fear of God as any many who knows God cannot fear Him, God is Love He isnt teh devil,

If he fears driving that much. I would never want to be in a car with him.

 

[FollowHim]

If he fears driving that much. I would never want to be in a car with him.

EG I hate to point this out, but you illustrate a serious emotional point.
People who repress an emotion, do not acknowledge they have it, become hyper sensitive to the merest mention of it.
I suffer from over confidence and assuming I have everything pinned down. After a few accidents I realise I have to row back on this because too easily I go too far.

I remember driving once when I was very tired, and it made me realise how well we repress anxiousness which is actually there all the time. When you are stressed and not with it, it then becomes much more difficult because the danger is the same but the threats are worse because you cannot cope that well.

Now I drive very well, and the times I got it wrong is at no speed and getting distracted. My wife says I drive too fast, more like a racing car driver, but then she is pretty anxious.

They say the best people at any skill are not those who do not have fear, but know how to handle the risks and know when to back off.
So thank you my friend to lifting the lid on the anxious repressors of the world and their theology that comes from this.

I wonder if being excessively tidy is also part of this package, along with cleanliness. This would be ironic if these folk also oppose purity and holiness, but then for them any speck would be contamination, a kind of slavery to being perfect but never making it.

I am not trying to get at anyone, it is just a proposition, filling in a picture. God bless you

 

[Cooper]

No two people are the same. Just saying.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

EG I hate to point this out, but you illustrate a serious emotional point.
People who repress an emotion, do not acknowledge they have it, become hyper sensitive to the merest mention of it.
I suffer from over confidence and assuming I have everything pinned down. After a few accidents I realise I have to row back on this because too easily I go too far.

I hate to point this out to you

But if you fear driving, You are a danger on the road..

Now respecting the road and driving and the dangers.. I can see this

but fear.

 

[FollowHim]

I hate to point this out to you

But if you fear driving, You are a danger on the road..

Now respecting the road and driving and the dangers.. I can see this

but fear.

I did not say I feared driving, I said I needed fear to bring respect to my driving. The fear is about knowing the downside risks, and how familiarity breeds contempt. I used to drive to work, about 8 miles, down some country roads, 1.5 car width wide. There was hardly any traffic down them, and slowly I would get faster and faster, 50 mph. One time I turned round a corner and there was a lorry, just on one side. I had only time to squeeze by with about 6 inches to spare. If I had stuck to 30 mph no problems, but I had got over confident. I have had 3 major situations in my life like this and without Gods grace I would not be here.

I was overtaking a lorry, doing 50mph and I was doing 70mph. Halfway down another lorry appeared, heading straight towards me. If I sped up I would make it past and have about 2 seconds spare, so I did, and made it, with a closing speed of 130mph. If I had braked I would be dead.
I got home after the normal 1.5 hour commute and mentioned it to my wife. She had prayed for me at that time. God is so gracious, and I am so often presumptious. It humbles me to know He has me in His hands, each and every day to do His will.

So I know I need fear and respect, and to hold myself in check. I have a friend who feels he can handle 90mph on the road. But when you realise at these speeds you simply cannot stop in time for any accident, it is beyond safe, it is foolish.

I do wonder about how some project beyond what is written, but I think this is just a personal trait. God bless you

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I did not say I feared driving,

When I drive my car I need fear,

If you need fear. Then you fear.

Sometimes I think you speak without thinking and that is why we always come to these hits in the road of you saying something, then denyingn you said it.

 

[FollowHim]

As a side note some interesting people had a cleanliness and tidiness compulsion that dominated their lives.
It can lead to an judgementalism of those they feel do not feel follow their lifestyle.

Into this emotional soup if you place faith, little wonder the theology comes out unususal.
My answer to this is God and the altar.

25 If you make an altar of stones for me, do not build it with dressed stones, for you will defile it if you use a tool on it.
Exo 20:25

Gods ways are perfect. Here defiling stones is cutting them to shape. Not what I expected.
Gods people are equally not what I expected, often worn, bashed about, blunt, robust and brisk, but with a heart of love sharing all they have with those they meet along the way.

Jesus took 12 Galileeians, untrained, non-scholars to be His apostles, a lot of fishermen. And He called them clean.

 

[FollowHim]

If you need fear. Then you fear.

Sometimes I think you speak without thinking and that is why we always come to these hits in the road of you saying something, then denyingn you said it.

I think you cannot understand the process. I drive along, and then realise I have got too relaxed and need some adrenaline, because things are getting difficult. This is what I mean when I say I need fear. Clearly this is not something you experience, but then maybe you are not aware of the real dangers travelling at 50 mph is built up traffic. An impact at that speed is not recoverable from if you come to a dead halt.

But if you are unaware of the emotional framework that governs everything we do, then me describing it to you is probably a new experience.
I wonder how many know this problem, relaxing too much. I know in later life my uncle suffered from it, talking too much and not paying enough attention to the road. But hey, I never thought this would become a dispute, because I assumed all drivers know this is part of driving, but clearly some do not. But then some want to try and create something out of nothing, lol.