Soon to be fulfilled Prophesies

[Copperhead]

I view this as a thinly veiled threat.

Ah, come on Keraz. I am an old Viet Nam Vet. I don't make thinly veiled or even unveiled threats. :)

But it is true, that Revelation 2:9 and Revelation 3:9 can be applied to those who claim to be Hebrews or or Hebrew lineage and are not. It can be applied to those who play the Two House / Ephraimite theology game which is just the same recycled British Israelism game. The idea that the 10 tribes were lost and the nations are descended from them. With the added kick that those who are drawn towards Messiah must be of that lineage. All of which is not supported at all in scripture, except when one applies some allegorical methodology of interpretation which history has shown usually ends up in a overt antisemitism that results in things like the Holocaust. It led to the Porgrams, Inquisition, and other periods of slaughter of Hebraic people. And it is quite clear that Jew and Israel had become synonymous terms after the Babylonian exile both during the return and later in Hasmonean and Roman periods. Seems I struck a nerve based on your response. Ouch. Sorry.

But the 'Jews' of today have no proof and the historical and genetic facts prove they have little if any links to the ancient House of Judah.
The claim that the citizens of the modern State of Israel are still the chosen Israel of God, is ludicrous.

You really need to get up to speed. There has been so much done in this area that they know even who is qualified to be Levitical priests and have them in training to prepare for a 3rd temple. And it makes no sense that a group of people that held onto the language, traditions, etc throughout the years of the diaspora would not know they had a lineage to Jacob (Israel). No other group in history that has been so dispersed from its own land for a few hundred years, let alone almost 2000, held onto their lineage and traditions even remotely as close as the Jewish people have maintained their history. No other culture has been as separated from their land to the extent the Hebrew people have and yet, the "forgotten" language, both written and verbal, has been restored and is the national language as it once was. Just as it was prophesied to happen.

I reiterate: the Promises of God to the whole of Israel, have not been fulfilled yet. Therefore they have not yet rejoined.
The 'dry bones' is a metaphor for not having the holy Spirit of God in them -in us. We Christians do receive a partial gift of the Spirit when we become Christian,

No, you have imposed that idea on the text. The sound hermeneutic principle of "when the plain sense of the passage makes sense, then seek no other sense, lest one end up with nonsense" applies. You are imposing the idea that the church is now Israel on the text. That is replacement theology which Paul strongly condemned. And it is playing fast and loose with the prophecies.

Causes one to wonder.... if you think that Christians are the new Israel, why haven't you moved back to the land and laid claim? Why are you still sitting on a rock in the Pacific instead of getting back to the land?

But the point was also made by Ezekiel.... that they would initially be in the land in unbelief. Without the Spirit within them. The "whole house of Israel" would imply the passage was regarding the whole of Jacob. "whole" is usually used in a context of restored to its original, which would be Jacob/Israel. The two house idea is long gone. But he also makes it very clear that they will have the breath of the Spirit put in them. Which is in keeping with Hosea 5 and other passages that they will one day recognize their sin of rejection and turn to Him.

And for Hosea 5 and Matthew 23 to come to fruition, Jacob/Israel (both houses of Judah and Ephraim) must be a cohesive group with a established leadership to fulfill it. The base has been laid for that.

 

[Keraz]

Ah, come on Keraz. I am an old Viet Nam Vet. I don't make thinly veiled or even unveiled threats. :)

But it is true, that Revelation 2:9 and Revelation 3:9 can be applied to those who claim to be Hebrews or or Hebrew lineage and are not. It can be applied to those who play the Two House / Ephraimite theology game which is just the same recycled British Israelism game. The idea that the 10 tribes were lost and the nations are descended from them. With the added kick that those who are drawn towards Messiah must be of that lineage. All of which is not supported at all in scripture, except when one applies some allegorical methodology of interpretation which history has shown usually ends up in a overt antisemitism that results in things like the Holocaust. It led to the Porgrams, Inquisition, and other periods of slaughter of Hebraic people. And it is quite clear that Jew and Israel had become synonymous terms after the Babylonian exile both during the return and later in Hasmonean and Roman periods.

It is you that wants to play the Two people; Two Promises game.
So called 'Israel' on earth and the Church in heaven. Unscriptural false teachings.

That God does have a secret, a hidden people who will be the people He wants in the holy Land as His witnesses and His Light to the nations, is well prophesied. They are people from every race, nation and language and whether they are actual Israelites of not is of no consequence, it is not our concern.

Ancient Israel did not do as the Lord had commanded them. They worshipped idols and rebelled against His Laws. Ezekiel 12:1 So the Lord sent them into exile – Ezekiel 12:3, for a decreed time period; Ezekiel 4:4-6 Before this happened, the Israelites had split into two kingdoms; then the House of Israel, was taken into exile by Assyria, and the House of Judah, deported by Babylon. Deuteronomy 4:27

What happened to them and the land?

Ezekiel 6:8-14 Among the nations, there will be those of you who have survived the sword and are scattered in foreign lands. They will remember Me while in exile and they will loath themselves for the evil they have done.
Remember the Lord, that is: become Christians.

You will know that My threats were not in vain. Justice will be done. Nahum 1:2-3

Cry in pain, because of your wickedness, people of Israel. You will die by sword, famine and plague. Black Death, civil wars, world wars, etc.
So, I will spend My wrath upon them. Your Land will become a desolation.

Travelers in the 1800’s were amazed at the awful conditions in the Middle East of desertification, still today; with water shortages and continuing strife.


In Ezekiel chapter 11, after the House of Israel had been exiled, Ezekiel is prophesying to the leaders of Judah. In verses 1 to 13, he says that Judah too, will be conquered. Then in verse 15, he mentions their brothers and kinsmen, [the House of Israel, then in Northern Assyria] to whom the inhabitants of Jerusalem say: They are separated far from the Lord, the land has been made over to us [Jews] to possess.

Ezekiel 11:16-44 Say therefore, When I dispersed them over the earth, I became their sanctuary in the countries where they have gone. I shall gather you from among the nations and I shall give the Land of Israel to you. Judah has come back, but in apostasy.

They will abolish all idols and vile practices. Not done yet.

I will give them a new heart and a new spirit. Wait for it!

They will keep My laws and I will be their God. Great will be the Day!

Go you Israelites and serve your idols! But in days to come I will punish you.
On My holy mountain in the Land, the whole [peoples] of Israel will serve Me.

I will accept you, when I have brought you out of all the places where you were sent.
I will bring you into the Land which I promised to the forefathers.
You will remember your past and will hate yourselves for it.
You will know that I am the Lord when I deal with you, not as you really deserve, but as the honour of My holy Name demands.


But now, as we approach the end times, we see a Jewish restoration, but in unbelief. Zechariah 12:7 The Lord will free Judah first, for their greater glory. The State of Israel, now in a part of the holy Land, but they still reject their Messiah and now face another Judgement; the third swing of the Sword. Ezekiel 21:1-14

The forthcoming Day of the Lord’s wrath is also the judgement of Judah, as in:
Amos 2:4-5, Jer. 13:19, Zeph. 1:4-6, Obadiah 1:12-16, Isaiah 4:3-4, Matthew 21:41-43

Ezekiel 20:46-47 O man, turn toward the South, prophesy to the desert of the Negev. The Lord God says: I am about to kindle a fire in you. Its fiery flame will not be put out; everyone to the North will be scorched by it. Zephaniah 1:14-18
The Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath, Revelation 6:12-17

Isaiah 63:4 I resolved on a Day of vengeance, the year for redeeming My own has come.

I stamped on peoples in My anger and their blood poured out on the ground. Psalms 110

This event will depopulate most of the Middle East, leaving the way for His people; Israel: the descendants of Jacob, plus those grafted in, all at least nominally Christians still scattered around the world, to gather in the ‘wilderness’:

Ezekiel 20:34-38 By My strong arm and outpoured wrath, I shall bring you out from the peoples and gather you from the lands where you were dispersed.
I shall confront you and bring you to judgement. Those who rebel will remain in the desert.


Who are the Israelites? Certainly, some must be ethnic descendants of the Patriarchs’, as in:-

Amos 9:8-9 I shall not totally destroy Jacobs posterity. I will shake Israel among the nations and not one pebble will fall to the ground.

Isaiah 14:1 The Lord will again show compassion for Jacob [the 12 tribes of Israel] and will once again make Israel His choice. He will resettle them on their native soil and aliens will join them.
Peoples from every race, nation and language. Isaiah 66:18b-21, Revelation 7:9


All faithful Christians have the wonderful promises of the New Testament:-

Acts 2:39 This promise is to you and your children, to all who are far away, to everyone whom the Lord may call.

Luke 12:32-40 Have no fear, little flock, for your Father has chosen to give you the Kingdom. Sell your possessions, give to charity. Provide for yourselves treasure [rewards] in Heaven.
Be ready for action. Be like a servant, ready to let your Master in as soon as He knocks.

Happy are those servants whom the Master finds awake when He comes. Truly, I tell you, He will seat you at the table and wait on you. If it is midnight or before dawn and you are still awake, then great will be your reward.
Remember, if the householder had known when a thief would come, he would have stopped him.
So, be ready for the Son of Man will come when you least expect Him.

This refers to the Lord’s Day of fiery wrath, not His Return, when He will be expected, as the armies of the Anti-Christ attack Jerusalem. Revelation 19:19

 

[Keraz]

You really need to get up to speed. There has been so much done in this area that they know even who is qualified to be Levitical priests and have them in training to prepare for a 3rd temple. And it makes no sense that a group of people that held onto the language, traditions, etc throughout the years of the diaspora would not know they had a lineage to Jacob (Israel). No other group in history that has been so dispersed from its own land for a few hundred years, let alone almost 2000, held onto their lineage and traditions even remotely as close as the Jewish people have maintained their history. No other culture has been as separated from their land to the extent the Hebrew people have and yet, the "forgotten" language, both written and verbal, has been restored and is the national language as it once was. Just as it was prophesied to happen.

A few misguided Jews playing at being Temple priests, does not mean anything.
If they really started to build a new Temple on the Temple mount, war would break out, then things would change!

The Hebrew language is not the same as ancient Hebrew at all. The Jewish people today are not all actual descendants of Judah, maybe just a small fraction are. For example; the Ashkenazi Jews are descended from the Kharza peoples, who were non-Jews that converted to Judaism. Many others, like the Lemba, Mizoram, Pashtuns, etc, are just wannabee Jews, so as to get away from their poor countries.

God has helped the State of Israel for His own purposes, but they never acknowledge Him and only rely on their own strength for their survival. There are many prophesies that tell of their forthcoming punishment and virtual demise.
The idea that they will all eventually become Christians, is never prophesied and is a false teaching associated with the 'rapture' of the Church.

 

[Keraz]

Causes one to wonder.... if you think that Christians are the new Israel, why haven't you moved back to the land and laid claim? Why are you still sitting on a rock in the Pacific instead of getting back to the land?

I live very comfortably in New Zealand, blessed by God as He promised we would be in dispersion. Ezekiel 11:16, Deuteronomy 33:13-17
I travelled all over Israel and the West Bank in 2010. I received a vision while there and I know I will go back there to live and when I do all the ungodly and Jesus hating peoples will be gone.
Great will be that time!

The two house idea is long gone.

Wrong. The Apostles knew where the House of Israel was in exile. They preached to them as Jesus commanded them and we Christians are the result. This is the facts, not some fanciful idea of a miraculous Jewish Redemption.
You contradict scripture to think God still loves and cares for anybody who rejects His Son.

 

[Copperhead]

The Apostles knew where the House of Israel was in exile. They preached to them as Jesus commanded them and we Christians are the result.

James wrote to the twelve tribes in the diaspora, not 10. He did not differentiate houses as you do. The house distinctions were not acknowledged by the brother of Yeshua and leader of the Jerusalem congregation.

James 1:1 James, a bondservant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ,
To the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad:
Greetings.

The Apostles never differentiated between Houses. Paul calls himself a Benjamite (of Judah) and an Israelite. He understood what I have stated... Jew and Israel were interchangeable terms and the two house distinctions were gone. And he was born in the diaspora.

Acts 22:3 (NKJV) "I am indeed a Jew, born in Tarsus of Cilicia, but brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, taught according to the strictness of our fathers' law, and was zealous toward God as you all are today.

Romans 11:1 (NKJV) I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. (in this verse he equates Israelite and Benjamin - Judah as one in the same)

And the coup de gras....

Philippians 3:4-6 (NKJV) though I also might have confidence in the flesh. If anyone else thinks he may have confidence in the flesh, I more so: 5 circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews; concerning the law, a Pharisee; 6 concerning zeal, persecuting the church; concerning the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

There is no evidence that the 10 tribes of the northern kingdom were lost. The scripture evidence is to the contrary. The Two House / Ephraimite theory is legend with no legs. It is just another variation on a the old theme of replacement theology that has been the source of much hatred of the Hebrew people and led to more slaughter and pain to those people. And how the nations treated the Hebrew people will be a defining standard of judgment at the end time according to both OT and NT. That doesn't mean adoration of the Hebrew people is required. But it certainly is a warning against delegitimizing them.

If the nations are now comprised of the Israelites, then how does the Lord gather the nations and judge them on how they treated Jacob/Israel? The two house / ephraimite theory is an allegorical quagmire.

Even James and the Jerusalem council acknowledged that the gentiles coming to faith in the diaspora were not Israelites. Acts 15 is clear indication of that. Their prescription of what the gentiles coming to faith should observe is based on the Noahide laws the righteous gentiles were to follow in ancient Israel. Even in the OT, there was the Mosaic Legal council and the Noahide legal council at the gates of every city. Gentiles living in Israel were never to observe the Mosaic Law, but the Noahide Law. Neither the council headed by James, nor Paul, nor Peter instructed Hebrews to give up their identity when they placed their faith in Yeshua. Paul was clear that if one was a Hebrew to remain a Hebrew. If one was a gentile, to remain a gentile.

And both identities, Judah and Ephraim, combined were guilty of rejection of Messiah that caused Him to return to His place, according to Hosea. And it is both of them combined that will need to acknowledge that offense and turn to Him before He will return here again. So both identities had to have been in the land to facilitate that combined rejection of Him.

Only folks like you put an allegorical twist on things, claiming that belief in Yeshua is proof of being Israelite.

 

[Copperhead]

I live very comfortably in New Zealand, blessed by God as He promised we would be in dispersion. Ezekiel 11:16, Deuteronomy 33:13-17

You do know that by staying outside the Land that you are defaming the name of Yahweh?

Ezekiel 36:20 (NKJV) When they came to the nations, wherever they went, they profaned My holy name—when they said of them, 'These are the people of the Lord, and yet they have gone out of His land.'

So it would seem that you would not want to defame the name of Yahweh by staying in NZ. I would think that if you are so sure that you are of the 10 tribes that you would make a return to the Land.

But I guess that is just too inconvenient. So where do your loyalties lie... with your self or with the Lord?

 

[Keraz]

James wrote to the twelve tribes in the diaspora, not 10. He did not differentiate houses as you do. The house distinctions were not acknowledged by the brother of Yeshua and leader of the Jerusalem congregation.

Sure; James and Paul always went to those who called themselves Jews first, in every other country. The result in every case is as Acts 13:44-46 tells us and as we see how they have never changed their rejection of Christianity.
Will they ever change? Bible prophecy is plain; they will be virtually wiped out and only a remnant will survive.

If the nations are now comprised of the Israelites, then how does the Lord gather the nations and judge them on how they treated Jacob/Israel? The two house / ephraimite theory is an allegorical quagmire.

The true Israelites today are the Christian peoples. It is how the nations treated them, will decide their fate.

And both identities, Judah and Ephraim, combined were guilty of rejection of Messiah that caused Him to return to His place, according to Hosea. And it is both of them combined that will need to acknowledge that offense and turn to Him before He will return here again. So both identities had to have been in the land to facilitate that combined rejection of Him.

We, the people of the House of Israel, have acknowledged our wrongdoing and have accepted the atoning sacrifice of Jesus.
But the House of Judah have not and God will punish them in His fiery wrath, as is prophesied. Zephaniah 1:14-18, Isaiah 4:6, Isaiah 29:1-4, Matthew 8:11, Luke 19:27.....slaughter those who did not want Me for their King.

And the coup de gras....

Paul was a Benjamanite, a Jew; that is why he lived in the holy Land at that time.
But the 10 tribes, the people as many as the sands of the seashore, did not. A few of them did join Judah and became Jews, just as is still happening today, with people who convert to Judaism. They retain their ethnicity, but become Jews by faith.
In the same way, Christians join the true faithful Israelites of God, by becoming born again Christians.

All of this discussion boils down to one issue: Will God rapture His Church to heaven?
Until you provide the scripture that says He will do that, then all your attempts of rebuttal fall flat.

 

[Keraz]

You do know that by staying outside the Land that you are defaming the name of Yahweh?

Ezekiel 36:20 (NKJV) When they came to the nations, wherever they went, they profaned My holy name—when they said of them, 'These are the people of the Lord, and yet they have gone out of His land.'

So it would seem that you would not want to defame the name of Yahweh by staying in NZ. I would think that if you are so sure that you are of the 10 tribes that you would make a return to the Land.

But I guess that is just too inconvenient. So where do your loyalties lie... with your self or with the Lord?

I have reported you for making an unacceptable personal accusation.

Using Ezekiel 36 in an attempt to prove your beliefs, is a mistake on your part. That chapter has the amazing prophecy of how the whole House of Israel will come back to the holy Land and be fruitful and prosperous. Ezekiel 36:8-12

 

[hermeneutics]

There is no hint of a rapture because the rapture is sign-less, unlike the day of the Lord which has plenty of signs. And the day of the Lord happens after the rapture of the church.

There is no rapture since we go on to be with the LORD when our body dies. At the end of the age, tares will be taken and burned.

 

[hermeneutics]

Sure; James and Paul always went to those who called themselves Jews first, in every other country. The result in every case is as Acts 13:44-46 tells us and as we see how they have never changed their rejection of Christianity.
Will they ever change? Bible prophecy is plain; they will be virtually wiped out and only a remnant will survive.

The true Israelites today are the Christian peoples. It is how the nations treated them, will decide their fate.

We, the people of the House of Israel, have acknowledged our wrongdoing and have accepted the atoning sacrifice of Jesus.
But the House of Judah have not and God will punish them in His fiery wrath, as is prophesied. Zephaniah 1:14-18, Isaiah 4:6, Isaiah 29:1-4, Matthew 8:11, Luke 19:27.....slaughter those who did not want Me for their King.


Paul was a Benjamanite, a Jew; that is why he lived in the holy Land at that time.
But the 10 tribes, the people as many as the sands of the seashore, did not. A few of them did join Judah and became Jews, just as is still happening today, with people who convert to Judaism. They retain their ethnicity, but become Jews by faith.
In the same way, Christians join the true faithful Israelites of God, by becoming born again Christians.

All of this discussion boils down to one issue: Will God rapture His Church to heaven?
Until you provide the scripture that says He will do that, then all your attempts of rebuttal fall flat.

God's people go to be with him when they pass away physically. That is why we will never die.

Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

 

[Nondenom40]

There is no rapture since we go on to be with the LORD when our body dies. At the end of the age, tares will be taken and burned.

Yes, but as 1 thess 4 says the dead in Christ rise first, then we who are alive and remain meet Him in the air....

 

[hermeneutics]

Yes, but as 1 thess 4 says the dead in Christ rise first, then we who are alive and remain meet Him in the air....

Jesus told the thief on the cross that 'today thou shall be with me in paradise" So believers die physically and immediately go to heaven. The dead in Christ are those that lived under the law, Jesus told his disciples that some of them would still be alive when they would see Jerusalem surrounded as Daniel had spoke and that would be the end of the age, that is the age of law. That is when the dead in Christ did rise, Abraham and the others.
We can look at the above, when God had told the children of Israel to take their land. They were afraid so they spent 40 years in the wilderness. Forty years after Jesus was crucified He brought in the believers from their grave.

 

[Keraz]

Jesus told the thief on the cross that 'today thou shall be with me in paradise" So believers die physically and immediately go to heaven. The dead in Christ are those that lived under the law, Jesus told his disciples that some of them would still be alive when they would see Jerusalem surrounded as Daniel had spoke and that would be the end of the age, that is the age of law. That is when the dead in Christ did rise, Abraham and the others.
We can look at the above, when God had told the children of Israel to take their land. They were afraid so they spent 40 years in the wilderness. Forty years after Jesus was crucified He brought in the believers from their grave.

Your beliefs are contrary to what the Bible actually does say. You fail to provide any scriptural support, yet you call yourself 'hermeneutics'?

The dead know nothing, they 'sleep' until the final Judgment. Eccl 9:5-6, Revelation 20:11-15 Even Daniel 12:13 and David; Acts 13:36 'sleep' until then.
We Christians DO have the promise of Eternal life. John 3:16 But we don't receive it until the Book of Life is opened, at the GWT Judgment; after the Millennium.

 

[hermeneutics]

Your beliefs are contrary to what the Bible actually does say. You fail to provide any scriptural support, yet you call yourself 'hermeneutics'?

The dead know nothing, they 'sleep' until the final Judgment. Eccl 9:5-6, Revelation 20:11-15 Even Daniel 12:13 and David; Acts 13:36 'sleep' until then.
We Christians DO have the promise of Eternal life. John 3:16 But we don't receive it until the Book of Life is opened, at the GWT Judgment; after the Millennium.

I have pointed this out several times and I am happy to go through it again.

Joh 11:23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
Joh 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
Last day of the age of Law. The age of Law would come to an end when their generation would pass away. 40 years they would wander in the wilderness until that generation would pass away. 40 years after the death of Jesus the temple was destroyed and the age of law was gone.
Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
I am a believer and when my body dies I will go on to be with the Lord.
Joh 11:27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.
Martha said yes, I believe.
Keraz, you can believe Jesus too.

 

[Keraz]

I have pointed this out several times and I am happy to go through it again.

Joh 11:23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
Joh 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
Last day of the age of Law. The age of Law would come to an end when their generation would pass away. 40 years they would wander in the wilderness until that generation would pass away. 40 years after the death of Jesus the temple was destroyed and the age of law was gone.
Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
I am a believer and when my body dies I will go on to be with the Lord.
Joh 11:27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.
Martha said yes, I believe.
Keraz, you can believe Jesus too.

Sadly, the actual fact is that we do die and we lie in our grave, knowing nothing. Time has no meaning to the dead, the next conscious moment for them will be; to be standing before God, after the Millennium. Revelation 20:11-15, Hebrews 9:27

Our Promise as Jesus said in John 3:16, is that those worthy, with their names Written in the Book of Life, will receive immortality.
THEN we shall never die.