Soon to be fulfilled Prophesies

[Bobby Jo]

... There really isn't much we can do to prepare for it. ...

You can't DO what you don't DO. -- As for ME? I DO.


To each his own, and Good Luck.
Bobby Jo

 

[Bobby Jo]

To All,

I can't believe that people would rather be caught by surprise than to anticipate events. Are people that stupid and/or oblivious? -- All I can say is: We Need More Sand ...


Whew,
Bobby Jo

 

[Nondenom40]

Thinks, supposes, anticipates, feels, suspects, -- all very good reasons for some. But that's not what we're given. We're given concise information so that we can anticipate and prepare our households accordingly:

1 Thess. 5:2 For you yourselves know well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 When people say, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction will come upon them as travail comes upon a woman with child, and there will be no escape. 4 But you are not in darkness, brethren, for that day to surprise you like a thief. 5 For you are all sons of light and sons of the day; we are not of the night or of darkness.​

Now if you like being surprised, then please be surprised. As for me, I prefer to to NOT BE IN DARKNESS, and so I'm not. But to each his own! :)

Bobby Jo

You quoted me but thats not what i said. This is someone elses comment...fyi

 

[Copperhead]

We're given concise information so that we can anticipate and prepare our households accordingly:

And how would you prepare for the totality of what is coming? Yeshua (Jesus) said that many go into fatal cardiac arrest just seeing what is coming upon the earth. Add up WWI, WW II, the Inquisition, and a host of other significant bad events, and what is coming eclipses all of them, including the flood of Noah. Could it involve what many think will be a extraterrestrial invasion? Not literally, but I have always been convinced that what is going on in that regard is demonic. It is inter dimensional not extraterrestrial. Only folks with their head buried in a bucket fail to realize that some of the UFO stuff cannot be explained away.

Matthew 24:37 (NKJV) But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be

If one really looks at what was going on during Noah's time, it can get pretty bizarre. Evil takes on a new dimension compared to what modern man has experienced. Some would argue that there was no cohabitation between fallen angels and human women going on back then that led to a unique progeny that were genetic hybrids, what many translations call "giants" which is from the Greek gigantis which is the Septuagint translation of the Hebrew "nephilim" which means "fallen ones", with some of them being cannibalistic per scrolls found in the Qumran area, but Daniel even says that one of the characteristics of the end time will be....

Daniel 2:43 (NKJV) As you saw iron mixed with ceramic clay, they will mingle with the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another, just as iron does not mix with clay.

To mingle with the seed of men, then what is mingling has to be something other than the seed of men.

And Isaiah brings out the giant mutant issue of Genesis 6 as part of the last days. It really is illuminated in the Septuagint translation....

Brenton Translaton of the Septuagint (LXX)
Isaiah 13:3
I give command, and I bring them: giants are coming to fulfil my wrath, rejoicing at the same time and insulting.

So when Yeshua says that those days will be like days of Noah, it entails much more than just bad people gone wild. How does the average person of today actually prepare for such things? Famine will be prevalent and cannibalism will be a worldwide feature of that time. It was during the siege of Jerusalem and many other great city siege events. It will be as if the "gods" themselves have come to destroy the earth. And that would be true. What is going on in the unseen realm is far beyond anything we can imagine.

The Lord says that after the fall of Adam, the earth was divided according to the "number of their gods" according to the scrolls of Deuteronomy found at Qumran. The earth belongs to Satan. Yeshua even acknowledged that in the temptation...

Matthew 4:8-10 (NKJV) Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. 9 And he said to Him, "All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me."
10 Then Jesus said to him, "Away with you, Satan! For it is written, You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.'"

Yeshua never dismisses the idea that Satan owns the earth. Earth was given to man to subdue it and have dominion over it. But Adam abdicated that authority at the fall. The entire earth fell under Satan's control except for one sliver of land that the Lord carved out for Himself that has been the most disputed piece of land in history.... from the river of Eqypt to the river Euphrates.

We see evidence of that in Daniel 10 where the angel is telling Daniel that he must return to fight with the entity that is behind the Persian empire and after fighting with him, the angel then will have to fight with the entity behind the Greek empire. That empire would not show up for over 200 years later!

The scroll that Yeshua gets in Revelation 5 has both sides written on it. That was characteristic of a title deed in the 1st century. No one in heaven or on earth was found worthy to reclaim the earth away from Satan. But the Lamb of God has overcome and is worthy to retake possession of the earth. And that title deed scroll being opened is the initiation of an all out, knock down drag out war between the the Lord and the fallen ones. Satan makes once major last effort to take control of the last piece of ground on earth that is not his. That is why, even though the calamities are worldwide, the land of Israel is the primary focus of that time. And the gloves are off and nothing is withheld in that war of the unseen realm, and it will spill out into this reality and humans will see it.

I am not convinced that there is any way to prepare for what is coming. Even those who are into horror shows and movies will not be ready for what is coming.

And it is not conclusive scripture proof, but it does seem to illuminate the idea of a pre-trib removal. When a country is about to initiate all out war on another country, it typically recalls its ambassadors. Well, that scroll opening of Revelation 6 is the initiation of all out warfare between the Lord and Satan over reclaiming the earth as the Lord's possession. it is reasonable to assert that He will recall His ambassadors, the redeemed Body of Messiah, before that begins.

 

[Nondenom40]

Good comments, epostle, Copperhead and Jennifer. I do understand and appreciate them.

But 1 Thessalonians 4:14-18 does not say Jesus will take the Christians to heaven. Please provide a scripture that says that.

Happy to;

1 Thess 4:14-18
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, and remain until the coming of the Lord, shall not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words. NASB

And

John 14:2-3
2 "In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. 3 "And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also. NASB

Your verses reference Jesus touching down on earth which is the literal 2nd coming. In the rapture He doesn't do that. We meet Him in the air then return to heaven. Two completely different events.

 

[Copperhead]

Your verses reference Jesus touching down on earth which is the literal 2nd coming. In the rapture He doesn't do that. We meet Him in the air then return to heaven. Two completely different events.

Hippolytus, a student of Irenaeus who was a student of Polycarp who was a student of the Apostle John, used Isaiah in his treatise of the removal of the righteous before the period starts....

Isaiah 26:20-21 (NKJV) Come, my people, enter your chambers,
And shut your doors behind you;
Hide yourself, as it were, for a little moment,
Until the indignation is past.
21 For behold, the Lord comes out of His place
To punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity;
The earth will also disclose her blood,
And will no more cover her slain.

And it would seem to directly tie in with John 14....

John 14:2-3 (NKJV) In My Father's house are many mansions [chambers, rooms, abodes, etc]; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.

Not definitive in and of itself, but supports the idea of a pre-trib, or at least a mid trib, removal.

But Isaiah is clear that the reference is the end time....

Isaiah 26:17 (NKJV) As a woman with child
Is in pain and cries out in her pangs,
When she draws near the time of her delivery,
So have we been in Your sight, O Lord.

Which is illuminated by Jeremiah...

Jeremiah 30:6-7 (NKJV) Ask now, and see,
Whether a man is ever in labor with child?
So why do I see every man with his hands on his loins
Like a woman in labor,
And all faces turned pale?
7 Alas! For that day is great,
So that none is like it;
And it is the time of Jacob's trouble,
But he shall be saved out of it.

 

[Keraz]

Happy to;

And

Your verses reference Jesus touching down on earth which is the literal 2nd coming. In the rapture He doesn't do that. We meet Him in the air then return to heaven. Two completely different events.

You seem to have a literary ability to see things that are not there.
Neither of your two reference verses say what I requested; Where does the Bible say the Lord will take His people; the faithful Christians, to heaven? You have to add it in and make out that Jesus Returns twice.

The reference to the dead in Christ being raised at His Return, is expounded further in Revelation 20:4, where it is plainly stated that ONLY the martyrs of the Great Tribulation will be brought back to life. NOT all the dead of the Lord's people. Even the OT saints await the GWT Judgement; AFTER the Millennium. Daniel 12:13, Acts 13:36

Not definitive in and of itself, but supports the idea of a pre-trib, or at least a mid trib, removal.

Only if you want it to. To anyone without the 'rapture' mindset, they all mean what they say and no one gets removed from the great test we must face. 1 Peter 4:12
All your prophesies above refer to the terrible Day of the Lord's fiery wrath, the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster that will change the world and commence all the end times events.

 

[Bobby Jo]

You quoted me but thats not what i said. This is someone elses comment...fyi

I understand what both your acquaintance said, and your opposition to his assertion. And MY POINT was not only that he was CORRECT in his ~suspicion~, but that we are to KNOW that we are in the tribulation, but NOT the false "seven-years" which the ignorant espouse. We are in the 42 month tribulation which Scripture demands.


Is there no end to the ignorance foisted in the church? -- And how many will fall into satan's deceptions for their lack!
Bobby Jo

 

[Bobby Jo]

... how would you prepare for the totality of what is coming? ...

Seems pretty simple to me, -- start by getting out of major cities; finding a remote shelter; stocking that shelter with food, fuel, & necessities for about 6 months MINIMUM. -- Remember, no man can buy or sell, which I anticipate will endure for some 6 months!

And if course, your "shelter" should not be down-wind of any nuclear targets! :)

Alternately, I understand the government "camp" will offer FREE SHOWERS.
Bobby Jo

 

[Copperhead]

no one gets removed from the great test we must face.

I can see that applying to the general tribulation that we all may face, but for that specific period I don't.

And I think it is matter of ecclesiology as opposed to eschatology. Rather a combination of the two. A misunderstanding of what constitutes the church and what the GT period purpose is.

If the church (not the building or denomination) is made up of only redeemed individuals that are sealed by the Holy Spirit and have passed from death to life, why would they need to prove anything thru a test they must face? The idea gives the impression that the redemption thru Messiah just doesn't quite make it, and we have put the cherry on top to finish the job.

Revelation 3:10 (NKJV) Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

"those who dwell on the earth" is a idiom throughout scripture of those who are condemned. Not those who are redeemed. If one has bible software, look at all the occurrences of "dwell on the earth" and "dwell in the earth".

One of the greatest examples is the story of the woman caught in adultery in John 8. Some textual critic scholars think the story was not true in that it is not in all the Greek manuscripts of antiquity. The timing of the event was the day of the Simchat Bet ha Shoevah, which is last day of the feast of Tabernacles. It is a water drawing that would take "living water" from the Pool of Siloam to the temple. Yeshua said during that day.....

John 7:37-38 (NKJV) On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, "If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. 38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water."

Also, there has been extensive debate on what Yeshua wrote in the dirt. Well, look at this......

Jeremiah 17:13 (NKJV Strong's) O Lord, the hope of Israel,
All who forsake You shall be ashamed.
"Those who depart from Me
Shall be written in the earth,
Because they have forsaken the Lord,
The fountain of living waters."

And there is the illumination.... written in the earth. Yeshua wrote the names of those who brought the woman caught in adultery in the dirt. He condemned them because that had rejected/forsaken Him. It is a co-idiom to "dwell on the earth" and "dwell in the earth". These idioms primarily are used to show those who are already condemned. it is never applied to the righteous.

So the time of testing, the GT period, is to test those who dwell on the earth... the unrighteous. It is not to test those that are already redeemed. To think so shows a misunderstanding of who the church is, who it is comprised of, and what is its destiny. Also a misunderstanding of what the purpose of the GT period is.

 

[Copperhead]

Alternately, I understand the government "camp" will offer FREE SHOWERS.

Read the accounts of the Holocaust victims.

And I am not convinced any "doomsday" prepper stuff will make a bit of difference and is just wasted effort and wishful thinking.

A really good work on the spiritual realm and the war that is going on is Dr. Michael Heiser's book "Supernatural" and the more extensive academic version "Unseen Realm". They are both cheap on Amazon. Simple to read. Check out the first one and then get back with us on how you think the end time will play out. Heiser doesn't take a position on a pre, mid, pre-wrath, post, amillennial, or any other position. The analysis is solely on the dynamics of the spiritual realm.

 

[Bobby Jo]

.

...
And I am not convinced any "doomsday" prepper stuff will make a bit of difference and is just wasted effort and wishful thinking. ...

Good Luck!

Bobby Jo

 

[Nondenom40]

You seem to have a literary ability to see things that are not there.
Neither of your two reference verses say what I requested; Where does the Bible say the Lord will take His people; the faithful Christians, to heaven? You have to add it in and make out that Jesus Returns twice.

I didn't add to anything. Its exactly what the verses say. Youre spiritually blind. I even underlined or bolded words to emphasize the obvious. He takes HIS PEOPLE TO HEAVEN. There is no ambiguity there. You have to look at those verses then conclude its not what you want to hear, then simply reject it out of hand. Sad really.

The reference to the dead in Christ being raised at His Return, is expounded further in Revelation 20:4, where it is plainly stated that ONLY the martyrs of the Great Tribulation will be brought back to life. NOT all the dead of the Lord's people. Even the OT saints await the GWT Judgement; AFTER the Millennium. Daniel 12:13, Acts 13:36

More confusion on your part. Any tribulation martyrs are after the rapture of the church. And the gwt judgement is for the lost, not o.t. saints. Your eschatology needs some work!

 

[Copperhead]

.


Good Luck!

Bobby Jo

Well, I do keep some stuff around for general emergency stuff like weather and other stuff that could crop up. And I already live rural, it is 12 miles to any of three small towns around me, and I have guns and ammo for general protection and some hunting requirements and general target shooing on my property, but I don't even focus one bit on being prepped for the apocolypse. I will be watching it from the bleacher seats! :)

 

[Keraz]

So the time of testing, the GT period, is to test those who dwell on the earth... the unrighteous. It is not to test those that are already redeemed. To think so shows a misunderstanding of who the church is, who it is comprised of, and what is its destiny. Also a misunderstanding of what the purpose of the GT period is.

Scripture is quite clear, the time of testing will come upon everyone, the whole world over. No exceptions. No whisk away before it.
Hebrews 12:1-12 has a very salutary lesson for us all and if some wish to avoid trials and testing, they are not true children of God.

I didn't add to anything. Its exactly what the verses say. Youre spiritually blind. I even underlined or bolded words to emphasize the obvious. He takes HIS PEOPLE TO HEAVEN. There is no ambiguity there. You have to look at those verses then conclude its not what you want to hear, then simply reject it out of hand. Sad really.

What is sad, is how you insist on going to heaven. No scripture says it and Jesus refutes it. John 3:13, John 15:17

More confusion on your part. Any tribulation martyrs are after the rapture of the church. And the gwt judgement is for the lost, not o.t. saints. Your eschatology needs some work!

This is about the worst exegesis of the prophesies that I have seen. You assume a 'rapture' before the GT and flat out deny the plain Words of Rev 20:11-15....ALL the dead, great and lowly will stand before God.....

 

[Keraz]

Well, I do keep some stuff around for general emergency stuff like weather and other stuff that could crop up. And I already live rural, it is 12 miles to any of three small towns around me, and I have guns and ammo for general protection and some hunting requirements and general target shooing on my property, but I don't even focus one bit on being prepped for the apocolypse. I will be watching it from the bleacher seats! :)

Right; prepping is for those who have failed to understand what really will happen.
The terrible Day of the Lord's fiery wrath will be just a single day event, then we will be motivated to travel to and live in all of the holy Land. The Lord will help and guide us; Isaiah 66:18b-21, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Psalms 107, +

We Christians will be the people God always wanted in the holy Land, His witnesses; Isaiah 43:10, John 15:27 and His Light to the nations; Isaiah 49:3-8, Matthew 5:14-16 The Lord will bless us mightily as we live there in peace and prosperity.

 

[Copperhead]

What is sad, is how you insist on going to heaven.

You certainly must be kidding. It is "sad" to want to be with Messiah?

 

[Copperhead]

Right; prepping is for those who have failed to understand what really will happen.
The terrible Day of the Lord's fiery wrath will be just a single day event, then we will be motivated to travel to and live in all of the holy Land. The Lord will help and guide us; Isaiah 66:18b-21, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Psalms 107, +

We Christians will be the people God always wanted in the holy Land, His witnesses; Isaiah 43:10, John 15:27 and His Light to the nations; Isaiah 49:3-8, Matthew 5:14-16 The Lord will bless us mightily as we live there in peace and prosperity.

Disagree. The level of what is going on will be longer than a day. "the day of the Lord" is never referred to a a literal 24 hour period. Just like Daniel's 70 weeks are not literal weeks, but weeks of years.

Isaiah 43 refers to literal Jacob/Israel, not the redeemed body of Messiah as you assert....

Isaiah 43:1 (NKJV) But now, thus says the Lord, who created you, O Jacob,
And He who formed you, O Israel:
"Fear not, for I have redeemed you;
I have called you by your name;
You are Mine.

The "witnesses" of Isaiah 43:10 is literal redeemed Jacob/Israel, not the body of Messiah the church. Else we are into a replacement theology / 2 branch game which is a gross error via a gross allegorization of the scripture.

And that ties into Hosea 6:1-2, which follows Hosea 5:14-15 which is Yeshua stating the He will return to His place until Judah and Ephraim (both houses of Jacob/Israel) acknowledge their offense of rejecting Him and in their affliction they will seek Him. That also ties directly to Matthew 23:37-39. The Body of Messiah has never rejected Yeshua to cause His return to the place He left.

And the Hosea passages tie into Jeremiah 30:7 where that affliction is called the Time of Jacob's Trouble, not the time to the church's trouble.

 

[Bobby Jo]

... I will be watching it from the bleacher seats! :)

You'll be in a food line, unless you have a ~6 month supply. That's how it is in every catastrophe. But this time, the food line will lead to a concentration camp.

-- And people can always deny Jesus, accept the mark, and be on their way.

Good Luck,
Bobby Jo

 

[Bobby Jo]

...
More confusion on your part. Any tribulation martyrs are after the rapture of the church. And the gwt judgement is for the lost, not o.t. saints. Your eschatology needs some work!

Rev. 20 seems pretty clear to me, knowing that those who are alive and remain on earth after the thousand years are ended shall ascend (rapture) to the New Jerusalem.

But suit yourself,
Bobby Jo