The Doctrine of Purgatory in Catholic Biblical Perspective

[reformed1689]

Then, REFUTE the verses I presented.

Already have MANY MANY times in the 99 pages on this thread.

 

[Taken]

No I think he does, he just can't admit what things mean because it tears his precious church doctrine apart.

There is ONE Word of God.
There is CARNAL MINDFUL understanding of Gods Word.
And:
There is SPIRITUAL understanding of Gods Word.

BOL reveals repeatedly, he argues from the perspective of Carnal Mindful understanding, which to me is irrelevant.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

As I’ve admonished you before – your cherry-picking of Scripture only leads to perversion of doctrine.

That is YOUR perspective...NOT MINE.

Ofcourse I cherry-pick scripture.
Only a fool would believe ALL scripture APPLIES TO THEM!
I pick and choose Scripture that APPLIES TO ME.

You also cherry-pick, and try, try, and try, to MAKE YOUR cherry-picked verses APPLY TO OTHERS... RIGHT AFTER "YOU" SPEAK FOR THEM, THINGS THEY NEVER SAID OR BELIEVE !

You keep using 1 Cor. 15:40 as “proof” that Jesus was not human because you won’t read it in its proper CONTEXT.

ACTUALLY... I have quoted several verses that reveal FACTS about Jesus' Origin.
The Facts REVEAL...Jesus' Does not have an Origin. He IS without beginning or ending!

And the Facts REVEAL...Earthy men, (aka, Humans) DO HAVE A BEGINNING.

Here is it in its full context. Paul is talking about Christ’s RESURRECTED, GLORIFIED BODY.
He ends by saying that WE will also have a glorified body – just like that of Jesus:

1 Cor. 15:35-49
But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.
SO WILL IT BE WITH THE RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD. THE BODY THAT IS SOWN IS PERISHABLE, IT IS RAISED IMPERISHABLE; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven. As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven. And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, SO SHALL WE BEAR THE IMAGE OF THE HEAVENLY MAN.

OOPS...YOU failed to mention the all the other verses I cherry-picked...
That REVEAL Jesus came forth out from God.

REALLY? YOUR GOD came forth out from the dust of the earth...? Wow...that's some powerful catholic teaching your peddling.

There you have it - in its proper context.
YOUR rejection of Christ’s humanity is heresy. - and that's why your fellow anti-Catholics have abandoned you on this point . . .

When are you going to get a dictionary and learn the difference between A single Human and Humans Collectively?

Jesus came forth out from God in heaven, to earth in the LIKENESS as a Human.

Jesus did not come to earth in the LIKENESS of all of HUMANITY (all earthly men collectively).

Jesus came to earth in the specific LIKENESS
Of FAITHFUL JEWS...to seek out LOST JEWS.

Jesus was not Seeking out Gentiles.

Humans do not come forth out from God.

You should put away your catholic nonsense and hear the truth of God, as a child who has not be brainwashed.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[BreadOfLife]

Already have MANY MANY times in the 99 pages on this thread.

Then point me to ONE of those posts where you actually refuted the Scriptural position I presented

 

[BreadOfLife]

Ofcourse I cherry-pick scripture.

Thanks.
That pretty much says it ALL . . .

OOPS...YOU failed to mention the all the other verses I cherry-picked...
That REVEAL Jesus came forth out from God.

Heb. 2:17
For this reason he had to be made like them, FULLY HUMAN IN EVERY WAY, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people.

Refute that . . .

 

[Taken]

Thanks.
That pretty much says it ALL . . .

Heb. 2:17
For this reason he had to be made like them, FULLY HUMAN IN EVERY WAY, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people.

Refute that . . .

LOL...stop being ignorant.
I do not refute Jesus was made in the LIKENESS as HIS BRETHREN.

Heb 2:17
[17] Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Obviously, I do not agree with your MODERN translation that CHANGES the WORD "brethren" to "HUMAN".

Jesus was in the LIKENESS of His BRETHREN.
Obviously you do NOT Comprehend "JESUS" Brethren were FAITHFUL JEWS....

Jesus was NOT in the LIKENESS of ALL HUMANS on the earth.

IF you had studied Scripture instead of lending your ear exclusively to your man-made catholic teachers....you SHOULD have understood...

Heb 2:16. That Jesus had taken upon himself the SEED of Abraham...

Abraham WAS "SET APART" exclusively as the father of ISRAEL...NOT all humans...as your corrupted translation teaches and you repeat.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[BreadOfLife]

LOL...stop being ignorant.
I do not refute Jesus was made in the LIKENESS as HIS BRETHREN.

Heb 2:17
[17] Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Obviously, I do not agree with your MODERN translation that CHANGES the WORD "brethren" to "HUMAN".

Jesus was in the LIKENESS of His BRETHREN.
Obviously you do NOT Comprehend "JESUS" Brethren were FAITHFUL JEWS....

Jesus was NOT in the LIKENESS of ALL HUMANS on the earth.

IF you had studied Scripture instead of lending your ear exclusively to your man-made catholic teachers....you SHOULD have understood...

Heb 2:16. That Jesus had taken upon himself the SEED of Abraham...

Abraham WAS "SET APART" exclusively as the father of ISRAEL...NOT all humans...as your corrupted translation teaches and you repeat.

Glory to God,
Taken

Your heresy is noted.

Protestant Scholarship on Heb. 2:17 . . .

Bible Tools
His HUMANITY was a real likeness. He was not a phantom, as some of the Docetists believed, but His human likeness did not and could not express the whole of His being. Jesus was also God, but His human form could never express the fullness of God, even though He was God.

MacLaren’’s Expositions
And so our Lord’s bitter suffering, diffused through life and concentrated on the Cross, was no mere necessary result of HIS HUMANITY, was not simply borne because, being a Teacher, He must stand to His principles whatever befell Him because of them; but it was a direct result of the purpose He had in view, that purpose being our redemption. T
Matthew Poole’s Commentary
It behoved him: the last reason why God the Son assumed and united the HUMAN NATURE in the seed of Abraham to his person, and was by it made like his brethren, and for a little while lower than the angels, was, that he might be capable to receive and execute the office of priesthood, by which reconciliation of sinners to God was to be effected: for he could neither be a sacrifice nor priest without it. ’
Gill’s Exposition
Christ's incarnation was in time, and after that many of the brethren existed; and it was only for their sakes that he assumed HUMAN NATURE; and therefore it was proper he should be like them in that nature, in all things: i
Meyer’s NT Commentary
Christ was in all things similar to men, His brethren, inasmuch as He had assumed a TRULY HUMAN NATURE; He was distinguished from them, however, by His absolute sinlessness.

www.Biblestudytools.com/
Christ's incarnation was in time, and after that many of the brethren existed; and it was only for their sakes that he assumed HUMAN NATURE; and therefore it was proper he should be like them in that nature, IN ALL THINGS.

Oh, by the way - MOST of the sources use the KJV - just like YOU . . .

 

[Taken]

Your heresy is noted.

Protestant Scholarship on Heb. 2:17 . . .

Bible Tools
His HUMANITY was a real likeness. He was not a phantom, as some of the Docetists believed, but His human likeness did not and could not express the whole of His being. Jesus was also God, but His human form could never express the fullness of God, even though He was God.

MacLaren’’s Expositions
And so our Lord’s bitter suffering, diffused through life and concentrated on the Cross, was no mere necessary result of HIS HUMANITY, was not simply borne because, being a Teacher, He must stand to His principles whatever befell Him because of them; but it was a direct result of the purpose He had in view, that purpose being our redemption. T
Matthew Poole’s Commentary
It behoved him: the last reason why God the Son assumed and united the HUMAN NATURE in the seed of Abraham to his person, and was by it made like his brethren, and for a little while lower than the angels, was, that he might be capable to receive and execute the office of priesthood, by which reconciliation of sinners to God was to be effected: for he could neither be a sacrifice nor priest without it. ’
Gill’s Exposition
Christ's incarnation was in time, and after that many of the brethren existed; and it was only for their sakes that he assumed HUMAN NATURE; and therefore it was proper he should be like them in that nature, in all things: i
Meyer’s NT Commentary
Christ was in all things similar to men, His brethren, inasmuch as He had assumed a TRULY HUMAN NATURE; He was distinguished from them, however, by His absolute sinlessness.

www.Biblestudytools.com/
Christ's incarnation was in time, and after that many of the brethren existed; and it was only for their sakes that he assumed HUMAN NATURE; and therefore it was proper he should be like them in that nature, IN ALL THINGS.

Oh, by the way - MOST of the sources use the KJV - just like YOU . . .

Oh, by the way...

If you are going to try and PROVE other people are in agreement with you...
You should quote them saying what you claim!

LOL...

You said;

Jesus is a human...

You have not quoted one person in agreement with you.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[reformed1689]

You have not quoted one person in agreement with you.

Glory to God,
Taken

Actually I do agree with him. Jesus was truly God and truly man. It was not just appearance man. He became a man.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Oh, by the way...

If you are going to try and PROVE other people are in agreement with you...
You should quote them saying what you claim!

LOL...

You said;



You have not quoted one person in agreement with you.

Glory to God,
Taken

Every one of the commentaries I listed agrees with me - that Jesus is both Human and Divine.

Read S*L*O*W*L*Y . . .

 

[Taken]

Actually I do agree with him. Jesus was truly God and truly man. It was not just appearance man. He became a man.

A HUMAN man? Does Scirpture teach you Jesus was a HUMAN? And Like EVERY Human?

Because My scripture teaches Earthly men, that men call humans, come forth out of the dust of the Earth.

Did your Jesus come forth out of the dust of the earth?

My scripture teaches Earthly men return to the Dust of the Earth.

Did your Jesus return to Dust?

My scripture expressly says Jesus came forth out From God in Heaven.

My scripture expressly says Jesus returned to God in Heaven.

Since when do body's of human men come forth out from God and return to God in Heaven? I have Never seen a hint of that in Scripture.

Maybe you can show it in scripture. BOL couldn't.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Every one of the commentaries I listed agrees with me - that Jesus is both Human and Divine.

Read S*L*O*W*L*Y . . .

Likeness, assume nature...

Good grief, YOU read it. Not once does it say, Jesus IS a Human.

LOL...

It's your lie, you tell it how you want to.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Ezra]

BreadOfLife said: ↑
Every one of the commentaries I listed agrees with me - that Jesus is both Human and Divine.

Read S*L*O*W*L*Y . . .

then slowly show me what it is they AGREE WITH YOU ON ?

 

[reformed1689]

A HUMAN man? Does Scirpture teach you Jesus was a HUMAN? And Like EVERY Human?

Because My scripture teaches Earthly men, that men call humans, come forth out of the dust of the Earth.

Did your Jesus come forth out of the dust of the earth?

My scripture teaches Earthly men return to the Dust of the Earth.

Did your Jesus return to Dust?

My scripture expressly says Jesus came forth out From God in Heaven.

My scripture expressly says Jesus returned to God in Heaven.

Since when do body's of human men come forth out from God and return to God in Heaven? I have Never seen a hint of that in Scripture.

Maybe you can show it in scripture. BOL couldn't.

Glory to God,
Taken

The Humanity of Jesus: The Ligonier Statement on Christology

 

[BreadOfLife]

Likeness, assume nature...

Good grief, YOU read it. Not once does it say, Jesus IS a Human.

LOL...

It's your lie, you tell it how you want to.

Glory to God,
Taken

then slowly show me what it is they AGREE WITH YOU ON ?

"Assumed a Human Nature'" means He BECAME a human being.
If neither of you geniuses can understand that, then I suggest you both enroll in an intensive English course . . .

 

[Taken]

The Humanity of Jesus: The Ligonier Statement on Christology

No thanks. If you can not speak for yourself, it is the SAME that BOL does. Not interested.

God can call Himself anything He pleases, just like you or BOL. I absolutely do not believe BOL "IS" the Bread OF Life...any more than I believe Jesus "IS" Human.

Jesus' manifestation As a Jewish man, absolutely was His Appearence, Similitude, Likeness As a "Jewish" man, not All men, as BOL teaches.

Jesus' FORM IS God who IS Spirit.
For mankind To SEE Him, He took upon Himself, The FORM of a FAITHFUL Servant.

Why put aside what His Unseen FORM "IS"... He is Spirit....and Teach He "IS" a Human?

When a human becomes MADE IN Gods LIKENESS...shall THAT MAN BECOME God?

Jesus was manifested in the Likeness as a human man.

You were supposed to learn Why that was necessary...and that He "IS" Spirit...and came forth out from God...
Humans are Not spirits andcome forth out from DUST of the earth.

It's all in Gods Word. It is MEN Declaring God IS Human, NOT Scripture.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

"Assumed a Human Nature'" means He BECAME a human being.
If neither of you geniuses can understand that, then I suggest you both enroll in an intensive English course . . .

LOL and men who assume Gods nature and Likeness Will be God...right? LOL
Perhaps you think that is so, since you have a human Holy Father, and human Holy Mother.

NOT Scriptural! Oh, but NOT to forget...you are against the Limits of Scripture. You can add in whatever.

 

[reformed1689]

No thanks. If you can not speak for yourself, it is the SAME that BOL does. Not interested.

I am a signer of the statement of Christology so this is speaking for myself. Not that that matters. If I post it, I am saying this is my argument. To just dismiss it shows you are not being an honest debater.

It's all in Gods Word. It is MEN Declaring God IS Human, NOT Scripture.

The Word BECAME FLESH.

 

[Ezra]

"Assumed a Human Nature'" means He BECAME a human being.
If neither of you geniuses can understand that, then I suggest you both enroll in an intensive English course . . .

aww i see your still posting your Child like remarks ---- HE took on human form but see if he was to fully become a human being as you suggest . then is his remains would have still remained in the tomb
Psalm 16:9-11 King James Version (KJV)
9 Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoiceth: my flesh also shall rest in hope.

10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

11 Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore.
Hebrews 4:15 King James Version (KJV)
15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
1 Corinthians 15:49-51 King James Version (KJV)
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, see scriptures disagree with your catholic teaching ..why is you never post any thing but what the catholic teach. you never back anything up with scripture .. the old saying if you cant run with the big DOGS ..stay ON THE FRONT PORCH...Go eat your puppy chow with Milk ,, strong meat belongs to men.. milk belongs to newborn babes

 

[Taken]

I am a signer of the statement of Christology so this is speaking for myself. Not that that matters. If I post it, I am saying this is my argument. To just dismiss it shows you are not being an honest debater.

You presented a link.
Try presenting your claim and Scriptural verification.
That Is Honesty.

The Word BECAME FLESH.

Gen 1
[26] And God said, Let us make man...
[27] So God created man...

Gen 2
[3] God created and made.

Gen 2
[7] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, (CREATED)

Gen 2
[7] and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; (MAKING ALIVE...with A Soul)

Gen 2
and man became a living soul. (The CREATED THING MADE LIVING)

That ^ Created FORM, called A Man out from DUST...IS Temporary.

The LIFE of that FORM Is It's Blood.
Gen 9
[5] ...your blood of your lives will I require... I require life of man.

The LIFE that MADE that FORM LIVING, is A Soul, that Belongs TO God.
Ezek 18
[4] ...all souls are mine...

The LIFE In the Soul Is God Breath.
Gen [2]
7...LORD God...breathed into his nostrils the breath of LIFE...

John 1
[1] ...the Word was God.

Mal 3
[6] For I am the LORD, I CHANGE not ...

John 1
[14] And the Word was made flesh...

1 John 1
[2] (For the life was manifested, and we have seen IT ...

Phil 2
[5] Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
[6] Who, {Jesus Christ} being in the FORM of God...
[7] ... took upon him the FORM of a servant, ... made in the likeness of men:
[8] ...found {SEEN} in fashion as a man ...

What Was IT that Earthy men saw?

God IN the LIKENESS As a Created Man out of the Earth...

OR

God WHO IS a Created Man out of the Earth?

WHO IS declaring God IS an Earthly Human Man?

God or Men?

BE Honest!

Glory to God,
Taken