Calvinism

[Preacher4Truth]

John Caldwell,



A proper understanding of the gospel is found in what is called Calvinism. In 1 cor15 in which many run to it says;
15 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Notice it speaks of the term"according to the scriptures". That is all of the scripture. It is not only the historical facts of the death burial, and resurrection....Both all of the scriptures {plural} that fully reveal the great salvation we embrace.
in fact, your failure to embrace this fullness of biblical usage and understanding is why your ideas come up short.



So do we. We really dislike a man-centered gospel, which is a weak gospel and resists truth along the way.
When you try and act as our spokesman inevitably you cease from being truthful, invent your own caricature, or flat out drift into falsehoods.
2tim2;
24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,

25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.



This might be your view. It is sadly mistaken and unkind. Nevertheless, I am okay with it as I understand any defective understanding must portray others in a way that will prevent them from welcoming the truth.



The Reformers worked to recover and teach the full Gospel of a sovereign God, that had been badly corrupted and perverted.
It was in scripture the whole time. Like fallen leaves can cover the walkway until being raked away...the walkway was there the whole time but obscured. It is the same with men and carnal philosophy obscuring it now.
Calvin among others did what they could, but I doubt anyone here could have done as much without commentaries, google search, sermonaudio, and many other books and tools that help in unpacking "all the scriptures'.



We do not need you as our spokesman claiming we believe a "new gospel". You do not agree with us, we do not agree with you at this time. You, however, insist on posting on our behalf and suggesting things we have not said at all.
I will illustrate it for you.
Let's say a poster made a thread on the topic of censorship. he says he is totally against it. Then some non-cals suggest and question the salvation of all Calvinists, which is against the rules. reporting that post and asking if it to be checked out would NOT be the same as a request to censor a person, just because the person had started a different thread on it, totally unrelated to it?

It is not your place to lie and say he is being hypocritical, saying one thing publically and another thing privately. That would be an evil falsehood, a slander, and a total lie. If any poster has to lie in such a way, we could conclude they are somehow twisted.
What would compound such sin, is if they had a way to hide or delete what the poster said, then substitute this slander in place of the truth.
Don't you agree that this would be sub-Christian to the core?
Now, this is the same thing here. You might not agree with how we and millions of others in the confessing church have viewed things. That is fine. Slander and false witness is not the answer, however.


This is another example of such slander. Every confession of faith has scripture front and center.Those that hold that confession hold that also.

Here are some facts: The errant gospel he embraces is not the historical gospel, or the biblical gospel. It is in fact a false gospel that has been propagated just over a century ago by Charles Finney who began his false gospel campaign that being converted is just like choosing a career. Easy as pie.

His error crept into the church unawares (Jude 1:4f2f) as he, just like John, fabricated an alleged adherence to the Doctrines of Grace in order to spread heresy, discord, deceit, Romans 16:17-18.

We, like those in Finney's day found out soon enough they are wolves in sheep's clothing. False teachers always come in looking like sheep, mislead about their beliefs at the first, then are found out, note Matthew 7.

For the record Robert Sandeman is another proponent. Their false choose yourself into heaven lie is a distortion of the truth, is a new "gospel" and its basis is its antipathy for God, His Sovereignty, His ways and gospel.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

John Caldwell,

I do not think this can be helped. They are indoctrinated into a tradition and are unable to learn because they are unwilling to consider their tradition may be wrong.

Many persons such as myself did not know of all the theological terms and systems, before seeing these truths in rudimentary forms. The teaching being consistent ,when someone is given the ability to see it...they see most of it.
You call this cult-like, scripture calls it growing in grace

@Anthony D'Arienzo has told us he does not believe the literal method of defining words in Scripture

This is a lie. You will not find Anthony D'Arienzo saying that anywhere online, or in-person as that is not what he believes.
Anthony D'Arienzo believes scriptures have a literal meaning. He also believes the biblical usage..., ie What the Holy Spirit gave to the Apostles, trumps a dictionary definition or common usage among unsaved people, without the indwelling of the Spirit.
You are the last person on the planet that AD, would use as a spokesperson, as truth eludes you and your agenda.

(the plain meaning conveyed by its grammatical construction and historical context) correct because he believes it makes God slave to a dictionary : but instead prefers to assign "biblical meanings" (liberal hermeneutics).

Your uncharitable assessment is lacking. I do nothing liberal at all.

He and @David Taylor reject adopting what is written as belief in favor of "good theology" based on what they believe implied. They seem to believe everyone elses view is just as subjective as their own.

We accept exactly what is written ,while we both confess we have much more to learn

Given such a low regard for Scripture

What an evil statement to post. This is yet another example of why your attitude is whacked.You are welcome to your twisted view. Each and every time, however, we will expose you for what you are,

how can they be expected to see what is there in the text? They are too busy looking elsewhere.

We offer more scripture from "all the scriptures than most people, so another baseless comment. Shameful.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Still waiting for any of you to use actual Scriptural exegesis.

All you've used so far? Ridicule. Mockery. Hypothesis. Accusations that are baseless. Name calling. Anger. Rage. Straw men. Misrepresentations. It reminds me of Leftists and their methods.

And the most notorious is vain philosophy which is also what you do with your, rarely used, if ever, out of context Scripture when attempting to implement it.

I'll wait for anyone to engage actual Scriptural which means providing Scripture in context minus all the aforementioned juvenile behaviors.

Thanks for stating what we all see going on. We could all make progress if we started at scripture and helped each other work through passages. Sometimes that happens, but not often enough. if we can go in that direction we will be better off.

 

[Grailhunter]

The word cult has nearly lost it meaning, if it really ever had a legitimate meaning. In the 60’s, dictionaries defined it as religious organizations that were founded by or organized by a man. Under this definition nearly any Christian organization could be labeled a cult. For example:

The Webster’s New World Dictionary 1956
cult (kult), n. [<Fr. <L. cultus, care, <colere, to cultivate], 1. a system of religious worship or ritual. 2. devoted attachment to, or admiration for, a person, principle, etc. 3. a group of followers; sect,--- cult’ist, n.

Then there is the modern definition:

Merriam Webster Dictionary 2019
cult 1: a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious: its body of adherents the voodoo culta satanic cult

2a: great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (such as a film or book) criticizing how the media promotes the cult of celebrity especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad

b: the object of such devotion

c: a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion the singer's cult of fans. The film has a cult following.

3: a system of religious beliefs and ritual also: its body of adherents the cult of Apollo

4: formal religious veneration: worship

5: a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator health cults


In modern usage, in regard to Christian beliefs it is commonly used to denote a religion that in one way or another is harmful or thought to be harmful. Sometime people get the word cult confused with occult.

Then there is the topic of cult like techniques. Subversive control techniques to acquire followers.

Under the more proper definition of cult, Calvinism is not a cult. But it definitely uses cult like techniques. It usually starts out with communication like;

1. Do you believe the Word of God is true or infallible? Or the catch phrase, Do you believe that the Bible is the inerrant Word of God….Now what good Christian would not believe that? And that is the first step.
2. Then the subject is pointed to a set of specific scriptures that denote what they want you to believe. “I have a scripture(s) I want you to look at.” The point is to hook you. They are always going to throw the "the think about it" phrase at you.
3. Usually they will mix it up so as not to make their real intent obvious.

The warning signs are that they are trying to get you to believe or do something unusual. The Calvinists are trying to get you to believe that the world…reality is a puppet show. But that is the last thing they are going to tell you.

Their approach is more along the lines of a religion that promotes you as special….elect, favored. They focus on the positive and mix it up….They talk about faith, love, forgiveness and grace, when in the reality of a puppet show, none of these things mean anything, because your mind and body are under the total control of an entity.

Besides slandering God, the problem with this concept is that it is the definition of demonic possession.

So these are the reasons why Christians should reject Calvinism. They are Christians that deserve our sympathy and prayers but it is a very subversive organization. Certainly something we should protect our children from.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Here are some facts: The errant gospel he embraces is not the historical gospel, or the biblical gospel. It is in fact a false gospel that has been propagated just over a century ago by Charles Finney who began his false gospel campaign that being converted is just like choosing a career. Easy as pie.

His error crept into the church unawares (Jude 1:4f2f) as he, just like John, fabricated an alleged adherence to the Doctrines of Grace in order to spread heresy, discord, deceit, Romans 16:17-18.

We, like those in Finney's day found out soon enough they are wolves in sheep's clothing. False teachers always come in looking like sheep, mislead about their beliefs at the first, then are found out, note Matthew 7.

For the record Robert Sandeman is another proponent. Their false choose yourself into heaven lie is a distortion of the truth, is a new "gospel" and its basis is its antipathy for God, His Sovereignty, His ways and gospel.

Yes, Finney himself later lamented his sincere but failed attempts with the new measures. Some damage was done. Thankfully God has over =ruled such errors in His eternal purpose, but it still has some effect on the church.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

I really do believe "the milk" may be just the opposite of what most of us have come to declare it is. All the Jews Jesus preached to lived under a very rigid system of rules, regulations and ceremonial structure that they had been fed on since birth...….. "Yes", the only diet they had known since they were infants: MILK. They were thoroughly comfortable with it...… because it was, basically, just following mindless "Do's" and "Don'ts."

Now, what would be "the meat" Jesus wanted them to graduate to, compared to that previous spiritual diet?

Willie,
The meat would be what the puritans would refer to as the "uses". The commands of scripture come first[the imperitaves}
the instruction of what to do. imperatives, are the meat. pray, mortification of sin, edification and so on.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Yes, Finney himself later lamented his sincere but failed attempts with the new measures. Some damage was done. Thankfully God has over =ruled such errors in His eternal purpose, but it still has some effect on the church.

Somehow I was onto him at the very first, and was pretty certain his alleged adherence to the truth was embellished nonsense.

And here we are, he's taken off the faux lambskin.

To be fair, the vast majority of professing believers are unaware they are merely preaching hand me down false gospel points of Finney.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Thanks for stating what we all see going on. We could all make progress if we started at scripture and helped each other work through passages. Sometimes that happens, but not often enough. if we can go in that direction we will be better off.

Agreed. It is also important that people understand the history of things, what people have tried to portray themselves as, where their ideology (choose yourself into heaven error) and others of their errors that come off of this false foundation.

 

[Waiting on him]

Agreed. It is also important that people understand the history of things, what people have tried to portray themselves as, where their ideology (choose yourself into heaven error) and others of their errors that come off of this false foundation.

I believe That Paul in the question I posted above to you is referring to his being born from above, not his literal birth.
Galatians 4:26 KJV
[26] But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

This is where Jesus explains we must be born from above, Paul had nothing to do with this. He testified,
Galatians 1:16 KJV
[16] To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:


Tecarta Bible

Tecarta Bible

 

[Preacher4Truth]

For the record it is not only sad, but is quite troubling that persons throughout history have fabricated and presented themselves as adherents to the true Gospel, and have been found out later that it was all false, that their testimony of themselves and their beliefs were literally untrue.

But Scripture warned us, note Jude 1:4ff; Acts 20:28-31ff.

Think about it brothers and sisters: None with integrity who are of God, and are preaching the truth, the truth of the Gospel lend themselves to such a false embellished misrepresentation of themselves as some literally have, portraying themselves to be something they are not. What does Scripture tell us about those who practice and do these things? Read the aforementioned passages again, solemnly: God has already warned us and told on them.

Paul warned of this in 2 Corinthians 2:17; 2 Corinthians 4:1ff, he never represented himself as something he was not, and warned of those who do. Note as well 2 Corinthians 11:14, which carries on this thematic warning. We see it today and on here. I say this sincerely in sorrow, but it needs to be stated.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Ok, I was kinda deceptive yesterday when I posted where Paul said when he

Galatians 1:15-16 KJV
[15] But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, [16] To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:


Tecarta BibleWhen Paul speaks of being separated from his mothers womb here, do you believe he is speaking of his literal mother, or Jerusalem above?

His biological mother.

 

[Waiting on him]

His biological mother.

He has to be speaking o when he was born from above. Jesus said this had to happen. Paul says he conferred not with flesh or blood.
Galatians 1:16 KJV
[16] To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

Jerusalem above is free the mother of us all.
Tecarta Bible

 

[Willie T]

Willie,
The meat would be what the puritans would refer to as the "uses". The commands of scripture come first[the imperitaves}
the instruction of what to do. imperatives, are the meat. pray, mortification of sin, edification and so on.

I'm afraid not. All that kind of stuff is simply replacing one set of rules (Jewish) with another set of rules (you name it).

 

[reformed1689]

Well seeing as it is obvious that you do NOT believe the whole gospel of Jesus, I would be right. You believe Calvinism, and only Calvinism. And it isn't even milk, let alone meat.

Strawman. I do believe the whole Gospel. Again, I don't follow Calvinism, I follow Scripture. You use that as an as hominem when you say I follow Calvinism. Calvinism is not something you follow. It's a label that is put on you. I follow Scripture and Scripture alone.

Sola Scriptura, Soli Deo Gloria.

 

[reformed1689]

As a matter of fact I do know what I am talking about. And these things are easy to find. You can kid yourself but you are not pulling the wool over anybody else eyes anymore. The cat is out the bag. The world knows the evils of Calvinism and I know that even within Calvinism that this is a concern.

View attachment 7529

I notice you keep making these big claims about Calvinism, but haven't even said what the evil is. Clearly you don't know what you are talking about.

 

[reformed1689]

I do not make false claims. There are so many scriptures that he has misinterpreted, that it would take a lifetime to unravel the garbage he has been indoctrinated in, because he won't learn.

In other words, you can't.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

He has to be speaking o when he was born from above. Jesus said this had to happen. Paul says he conferred not with flesh or blood.
Galatians 1:16 KJV
[16] To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

Jerusalem above is free the mother of us all.
Tecarta Bible

I disagree but will look into it. Who in church history espoused your position?

 

[reformed1689]

As a matter of fact I do know what I am talking about.

Prove it.

 

[Waiting on him]

He has to be speaking o when he was born from above. Jesus said this had to happen. Paul says he conferred not with flesh or blood.
Galatians 1:16 KJV
[16] To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

Jerusalem above is free the mother of us all.
Tecarta Bible

I believe this to be very important it shows our calling our birth and our part in that birth, but many here claim God has changed this method of giving birth to men from above?

 

[Waiting on him]

I disagree but will look into it. Who in church history espoused your position?

I guess Jesus?