When to Stop

[farouk]

Hi Rita,

The men of the Reformation felt they were called to "test" what thy heard. Look where that has led Christianity.

I trust the writings of the men who walked and talked to the Apostles over the men of the Reformation.

"Thy word is truth" (John 17.17) assumes constant reference to the Scriptures rather than to a supposedly infallible hierarchy. At the Reformation, the truth of justification by faith was mightily reasserted.

 

[Marymog]

...but if and when those called the so called apostolic succession diverge from the Scriptures...

Who decides when someone has diverged from Scripture?

A majority vote? A special panel of chosen church leaders?

All the Reformers thought the CC diverged from Scripture (hence the reformation) but all the Reformers disagreed with each other on what was diverged from and what was correctly maintained by the CC.

It's a tough dilemma....

 

[Marymog]

"Thy word is truth" (John 17.17) assumes constant reference to the Scriptures rather than to a supposedly infallible hierarchy. At the Reformation, the truth of justification by faith was mightily reasserted.

Justification by faith ALONE?

Curious and bible study Mary

 

[farouk]

Yes. This is what I am talking about. I go in circles in my own mind quite often.

This is how the comparison suggested may be apt.

Repentance and faith are for the believer an ongoing state of mind, by God's grace; they are instincts now that don't stop. Anne Steele's words come to mind: "Oh may these hallowed pages be My ever dear delight! And still new beauties may I see; and still increasing light!"; in a faith and repentance frame of mind, this desire is unlikely to stop.

(Hence the tattoo analogy; if you already have ink, you know it felt good and will likely be so in the future and so you likely want more and, thus, hard to say when to stop wanting more.)

 

[Enoch111]

I need to stop at confusion when it comes to different doctrines on God's Word.

One needs stop reading (or listening) to all the clamor and voices that are all around us and stay strictly focused on what is ACTUALLY in the Bible. Which means that Christians should avoid commentaries until they are personally familiar with the Scriptures. And use all legitimate study tools to understand things properly. You should invest in Nave's Topical Bible (KJV) is you have not already done so.

There is no confusion when we rightly divide (interpret) the Word of Truth. In fact it must be the indwelling Holy Spirit who does the interpreting, since He is there to guide us into all truth. And all God's truth is in perfect harmony with every part.

 

[Enoch111]

Justification by faith ALONE?

How come you have a question mark at the end? Justification is indeed by faith alone BECAUSE it is purely by God's grace. The Catholic Church hates this doctrine (and does not even use the word "justification" properly). (And several other groups of Christians do too).

Their reasoning goes like this: "How in the world could a holy God declare a vile sinner to be righteous (justified) merely because he or she has believed on the Lord Jesus Christ? That is absurd! There are no free lunches! How in the world could God give a murderer the FREE GIFT of eternal life because he has repented and genuinely turned to God and Christ? That's not fair!"

But that is exactly what the Bible says. So those who cannot believe this fundamental truth do not believe God.

 

[Marymog]

How come you have a question mark at the end? Justification is indeed by faith alone BECAUSE it is purely by God's grace. The Catholic Church hates this doctrine (and does not even use the word "justification" properly). (And several other groups of Christians do too).

Their reasoning goes like this: "How in the world could a holy God declare a vile sinner to be righteous (justified) merely because he or she has believed on the Lord Jesus Christ? That is absurd! There are no free lunches! How in the world could God give a murderer the FREE GIFT of eternal life because he has repented and genuinely turned to God and Christ? That's not fair!"

But that is exactly what the Bible says. So those who cannot believe this fundamental truth do not believe God.

We don't need Scripture to have faith?

Curious

 

[Butterfly]

Sorry marymog , I refuse to make this a thread about who is right and who is wrong. Mayflower doesn't need that, this forum is rife with your arguments with others on the subject.
Rita

 

[Mayflower]

How come you have a question mark at the end? Justification is indeed by faith alone BECAUSE it is purely by God's grace. The Catholic Church hates this doctrine (and does not even use the word "justification" properly). (And several other groups of Christians do too).

Their reasoning goes like this: "How in the world could a holy God declare a vile sinner to be righteous (justified) merely because he or she has believed on the Lord Jesus Christ? That is absurd! There are no free lunches! How in the world could God give a murderer the FREE GIFT of eternal life because he has repented and genuinely turned to God and Christ? That's not fair!"

But that is exactly what the Bible says. So those who cannot believe this fundamental truth do not believe God.

Yes,one who says repentance is a work says you are not saved if you believe it is necessary for salvation. This was my experience in a Christian ministry I was a part of in college.

But those who see repentance as a gift say if you do not believe it is necessary for salvation, you are not saved. That is my church teaching.

I can see the repentance gift as change of mind and the action as a work. Because thoughts lead to actions.

Just people I care about are on both sides and it is hard to think one side or the other is not saved. Then there is me, who has never heard repentance is a gift, not a work. Or so it seems like! So it boggled my mind a second. But I believe I know where I stand. I believe if you have a relationship with Jesus Christ that He died for Your sins, then you don't have to worry about anything else. He will guide Your way. The Gospel was meant to be simple enough for just a child to understand.

 

[Enoch111]

Just people I care about are on both sides and it is hard to think one side or the other is not saved.

This is the root of the problem. What others say or believe. And they may or may not be right. They may or may not know the Scriptures. They may or may not be under denominational influence.

If repentance were a *work* (and it is commanded by God and Christ), then God would be contradicting Himself for telling us that salvation is NOT by works of righteousness which we have done (Tit 3:4). Clearly then, it is not a work, and those who teach such nonsense do not even know the A-B-Cs of the Gospel. Ignore them.

As to who is saved or not saved, that is none of our business. Only God knows.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

When do you stop studying? Like digging deeper/excavating to see if something is true or not. I need to stop at confusion when it comes to different doctrines on God's Word. Or frustrated. It is very hard. I go back and forth on a lot of things. Anyone know when to stop? How deep do you go? How do you best resolve what you believe?

Admittedly, I'm not the best at knowing when to stop about anything.

But pacing and trusting in the Lord is very important. Somethings you're just not going to understand today, or even this decade. If you need to take a break, then do so- that goes for breaks of sleeping on it tonight, or longer periods. If you're not sure whether you should take a break, ask the Father.

 

[aspen]

When do you stop studying? Like digging deeper/excavating to see if something is true or not. I need to stop at confusion when it comes to different doctrines on God's Word. Or frustrated. It is very hard. I go back and forth on a lot of things. Anyone know when to stop? How deep do you go? How do you best resolve what you believe?

Right now salvation has been a topic I have been on regarding what repentance is and if it is necessary for salvation as a gift of grace or a work separate from salvation. But while salvation is one of those topics I like to be crystal on, I know I meddle in things that just leave me more frustrated then inspired by the Word of God.

Don’t forget to breathe
Doctrine is our hobby,
Loving outwardly is our profession.

Sometimes
I think doctrine is simply there
To keep us awake while we wait
For the return of our King

Although, it doesn’t have that affect on everyone :)

 

[aspen]

Faith does not produce fruit
Works produce rotten fruit
Only faith/works, which cannot be separated produces good fruit

So it is in all relationships

 

[Mayflower]

Don’t forget to breathe
Doctrine is our hobby,
Loving outwardly is our profession.

Sometimes
I think doctrine is simply there
To keep us awake while we wait
For the return of our King

Although, it doesn’t have that affect on everyone :)

Lolol for sure. I finally understand the parable of the ten virgins! I saw an online sermon that explained the 5 wise virgins didn't walk away from faith, because they stayed in the Word. While the foolish virgins didn't stay in the Word, so fell away. So it is very important. It is I have to work on the "shock factor" when I hear new things. With anxiety I have to calm myself down and remember that God will lead me in all Truth. I just need to teach and share what I do know with others, and there is no question of God's deep love for us.

 

[Mayflower]

Faith does not produce fruit
Works produce rotten fruit
Only faith/works, which cannot be separated produces good fruit

So it is in all relationships

I agree. That is why it is important to me to know if repentance is a gift of faith or a work. Which I think the "change of mind" now is the gift. The action is the work, which all glory goes to God there. But repentance IS necessary for salvation. One must make a choice in their minds that we are sinners and need God's grace for salvation, as well as change their mind about living in sin. Thoughts lead to actions...but this is how I resolve eternal security too, because I believe the Bible clearly teaches we can not lose salvation. So if we are trying to turn away from sin, then God will help us overcome it. It makes sense we can walk away though from faith....That is something I did not believe before...now the parables of the virgins and unforgiving servant makes sense to me. But I believe I have a better understanding of repentance now.

 

[aspen]

Not everything is a dichotomy
Try inserting “and” instead of “or”
It can make a big difference in your outlook

You have a sharp and curious mind!

 

[Mayflower]

Not everything is a dichotomy
Try inserting “and” instead of “or”
It can make a big difference in your outlook

You have a sharp and curious mind!

Thank you!!!...curiosity killed the cat though...so it is vital to stay in the Word.

 

[Mayflower]

See, it can't be both a gift of salvation and a work, because we are saved by faith, not by works....though I can see repentance having two different meanings. "Change of mind" versus "change of action." Actions prove the change of mind. A lot of scripture sort of makes sense now. I won't give the devil opportunity doubting my salvation anymore. I will love God and serve Him, always seek Him out and try to understand things to the best of my ability and leave God with the rest.

 

[aspen]

See, it can't be both a gift of salvation and a work, because we are saved by faith, not by works....though I can see repentance having two different meanings. "Change of mind" versus "change of action." Actions prove the change of mind. A lot of scripture sort of makes sense now. I won't give the devil opportunity doubting my salvation anymore. I will love Gof and serve Him, always seek Him out and try to understand things to the best of my ability and leave God with the rest.

I think you are on to something!

 

[Waiting on him]

See, it can't be both a gift of salvation and a work, because we are saved by faith, not by works....though I can see repentance having two different meanings. "Change of mind" versus "change of action." Actions prove the change of mind. A lot of scripture sort of makes sense now. I won't give the devil opportunity doubting my salvation anymore. I will love God and serve Him, always seek Him out and try to understand things to the best of my ability and leave God with the rest.

The Five Solas are:

1. Sola Scriptura (“Scripture alone”): The Bible alone is our highest authority.
2. Sola Fide (“faith alone”): We are saved through faith alone in Jesus Christ.
3. Sola Gratia (“grace alone”): We are saved by the grace of God alone.
4. Solus Christus (“Christ alone”): Jesus Christ alone is our Lord, Savior, and King.
5. Soli Deo Gloria (“to the glory of God alone”): We live for the glory of God alone.