Why Do You Go/or not go to Church?

[Stan B]

Sooooo your not willing to admit you were wrong about the CC not serving wine at mass??? BTW....each church (or diocese) gets to decide if they serve it.

AND you have no evidence to prove your claim that they wanted to kill or cut off the beard of the man?????

Did you find any historical writing about when The Church started having priest serve communion or history on the magical elixir question???? Or are we gonna pretend that those questions weren't asked???

I believe your intent is to put down The Church....you did it in both post sooooooo your not fooling this girl.....

Patient Mary

PS....The writings of the Apostolic and ECF's that you studied mirror Catholic Church teaching soooooo you don't believe what they wrote?

Mary>> "Sooooo your not willing to admit you were wrong about the CC not serving wine at mass??? BTW....each church (or diocese) gets to decide if they serve it.

AND you have no evidence to prove your claim that they wanted to kill or cut off the beard of the man????? "

Mary, If you really belive I am really not going to waste my time searching through 3 years of intensive study merely to defend myself, and appease you, you are are severely deluded. I really don't care what you think of me. I have absolutely no respect for someone the uses the typical bogus liberal nonsense, declaring that anyone who tells the truth is an "ugly rant". No doubt inspiration from the gawd you serve.

Like, if you really cared when 5 seconds on the internet would tell you more than you ever wanted to know!!

"The council of Constance threatened with excommunication all who distributed the wine to the laity. It spoke of many "perils and scandals" attending the distribution of the wine. Gerson, who voted for the enactment, urged the danger of spilling the wine, of defilement to the sacred vessels from their contact with laymen’s hands and lips, the long beards of laymen, the possibility of the wine’s turning to vinegar while it was being carried to the sick, or being corrupted by flies, or frozen by the cold, the difficulty of always purchasing wine, and the impossibility of providing cups for ten thousand or twenty thousand communicants on Easter. The council of Trent reaffirmed the withdrawal of the cup as an enactment the Church was justified in making. Gregory II. had commanded the use of a single chalice at communion. 1699"

 

[Marymog]

Mary>> "Sooooo your not willing to admit you were wrong about the CC not serving wine at mass??? BTW....each church (or diocese) gets to decide if they serve it.

AND you have no evidence to prove your claim that they wanted to kill or cut off the beard of the man????? "

Mary, If you really belive I am really not going to waste my time searching through 3 years of intensive study merely to defend myself, and appease you, you are are severely deluded. I really don't care what you think of me. I have absolutely no respect for someone the uses the typical bogus liberal nonsense, declaring that anyone who tells the truth is an "ugly rant". No doubt inspiration from the gawd you serve.

Like, if you really cared when 5 seconds on the internet would tell you more than you ever wanted to know!!

"The council of Constance threatened with excommunication all who distributed the wine to the laity. It spoke of many "perils and scandals" attending the distribution of the wine. Gerson, who voted for the enactment, urged the danger of spilling the wine, of defilement to the sacred vessels from their contact with laymen’s hands and lips, the long beards of laymen, the possibility of the wine’s turning to vinegar while it was being carried to the sick, or being corrupted by flies, or frozen by the cold, the difficulty of always purchasing wine, and the impossibility of providing cups for ten thousand or twenty thousand communicants on Easter. The council of Trent reaffirmed the withdrawal of the cup as an enactment the Church was justified in making. Gregory II. had commanded the use of a single chalice at communion. 1699"

Thank you Stan B.

Heres the deal kiddo.....you are wrong about wine being served at Catholic Masses.

You have no evidence to back up your claim about killing the bearded guy.

Here is the link to the council of Constance notes: Council of Constance 1414-18 Council Fathers - Papal Encyclicals

Please read the original document instead of the summary and opinions put forth on ccel.org ;)

Have a good day.....And please stop being so harsh on us Catholics.

 

[amadeus]

Completely bizarre and utterly NOT TRUE post by you and @Nancy should know better.

Mary

"And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?​

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Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth." John 9:40-41​

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"And he cometh to Bethsaida; and they bring a blind man unto him, and besought him to touch him.
And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.
And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.
After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly." Mark 8:22-25

 

[Marymog]

Quiethinker, I agree with you. I have no idea where Mary might have been infected with this non-Scriptural ideology, but my heart goes out to her as she carries this unnecessary burden!

Jesus came to set us free from the Law; the law of rules and regulations. Let us learn to embrace His eternal love for us, and cast aside man’s efforts to bring us back into bondage.

LOL....Jesus has many laws and regulations.

You know.....the thing he told us to DO (Luke 22:19) and have to do to have life in us (John 6:53) and what we are to do (Matthew 28:19).

I could go on and on with more but I digress....

Bible Study Mary

 

[Marymog]

"And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?

Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth." John 9:40-41
​

"And he cometh to Bethsaida; and they bring a blind man unto him, and besought him to touch him.
And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.
And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.
After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly." Mark 8:22-25

They that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

 

[Marymog]

I am 77 years old and really don’t have the ability to sit in church for the duration of a service.

Oh goodness....I look forward to the day I am 77 and can still be as active on the internet as you are!

Good for you Stan B....Most people your age shy away from the internet and forums like this.

Mary

 

[Marymog]

Quiethinker, I agree with you. I have no idea where Mary might have been infected with this non-Scriptural ideology, but my heart goes out to her as she carries this unnecessary burden!

Jesus came to set us free from the Law; the law of rules and regulations. Let us learn to embrace His eternal love for us, and cast aside man’s efforts to bring us back into bondage.

"non-scriptural ideology"???? Really???

I agree with what the Apostolic Fathers have written. That is where I get my "non-Scriptural ideology".

From whom do you get yours sir?

Curious Mary

PS.....Why do you use such harsh words?

 

[Mayflower]

It can be a pity if a local church permanently cancels its Sunday evening service.

Acts 2.41-42 is a good pattern; it doesn't actually mention meeting times, though...

And that's really what it came down too. My church has all the elements that was taught about in the series. I more understand though the difference of religion and spirituality, which is a sense of belonging/connection to others and to God. I am more connected to God when I am around this body of believers, because they know me and I know them for the most part. For this reason, I can study from many resources who teach the Word while coming back to be uplifted and share among other believers who are also learning and growing in the Word of God. It just hasnt been the same. I just felt a bit sad. I know what to do now. It has taken a lot of prayer and thought.

 

[Stan B]

"non-scriptural ideology"???? Really???

I agree with what the Apostolic Fathers have written. That is where I get my "non-Scriptural ideology".

From whom do you get yours sir?

Curious Mary

PS.....Why do you use such harsh words?

Mary, while I enjoy reading about the beliefs of the Fathers, my beliefs are based SOLEY upon the canon of Scripture, the concept of "Sola Scriptura" embraced by Eusebius AD 325:

In his Second Book against Sabellius, he expressly declares: that since the word is not in Scripture, it is satisfactory to him. On this occasion he speaks to the following effect: "As to not inquiring into truths which submit to investigation, it is indolent, so prying into others where scrutiny is expedient, is audacity. Into what truths should ought we then search? Those which we find recorded in Scriptures. But what we do not find recorded there, let us not search after. For had the knowledge of them been incumbent on us, the Holy Spirit would doubtless placed them there. . . Speak that which is written, and strife will be abandoned"

The Fathers were significantly diverse, ranging from Origen who had absolutely nothing to say, but wasted a whole lot of words saying it. Then there was Tertullian, the Roman lawyer who was a hard core hand raising holy roller pentecostal. Apart from that his theology is rather solid.

But I think my favorite is Athananasia around AD 325. He pretty much records the theology of his day.

AFter that, you get nutcases like St. Augustine who came up with the idea of original sin, and morphed it into a pagan cult under St Jerome. Jerome built upon Augustine's heresy and declared that a baby who died before he was baptized, would never be able to enter heaven according to the hideous "Gospel according to Augustine". So the Roman Church adopted the magical pagan idea of magical sprinkling as a remedy.

I was just reading about a priest in South America, from the pagan Roman Catholic cult, who goes out after the church service and sprinkles all the cars in the parking lot with holy water for good luck!! Give us a break!!

Mary, you ask "Why do you use such harsh words?"

In all fairness, I have no idea what you are talking about. Perhaps you could quote the statements you consider to be harsh.

 

[quietthinker]

Thank you QT,

Bible study.....LOVE IT!!

I, the CC and Scripture agrees with you: Man can not live on BREAD alone.

Putting your passage (Matthew 4:4), IN CONTEXT, He was referring actual bread when Satan suggested He turn the stone into bread. When Jesus said that man does not live on bread alone he was referencing the OT passage Deuteronomy 8:3 which was talking about actual bread. Soooo that passage you referenced has NOTHING to do with Luke 22 and John 6. Scripture says our ancestor's died when they ate manna (real bread). Jesus told us we would not die when we ate him. Jesus is the bread of life (John 6:35).

In summary: Matthew 4:4 does NOT nullify Luke 22 and John 6.

Soooo once again, how do you fulfill what Jesus said you MUST DO in Luke and John (John 6:53 and Luke 22:19)??

Bible Study Mary

These are referencing spiritual aspects. Jesus is saying unless you ingest him (his values) you miss out. A similar passage saying the same thing is that of staying connected to the vine, 'without me you can do nothing' he says. That's a definitive statement.
Just as we ingest bread to live ie it becomes part of our system so our relationship with Jesus is to be as intimate.

Some who heard him say these things thought he was talking literally. They missed the point because they chose to stay in the dark.

 

[quietthinker]

WOW.....Such an articulate defense of your thoughts and a take down of my post that I backed up with Scripture.

Would you care to provide any facts to back up your theory? Or do you just prefer to snipe?

Mary

Your antagonism is not so hidden as you suppose Marymog. You demand proof.....yeah, so did the 'religious' in Jesus day.....They weren't interested in proof any more than you are.
Soooo, the devils believe in one God and quote scripture as if appealing to the quoting of scripture shores up their position.

 

[Marymog]

Mary, while I enjoy reading about the beliefs of the Fathers, my beliefs are based SOLEY upon the canon of Scripture, the concept of "Sola Scriptura" embraced by Eusebius AD 325:.

I deleted the rest of your post because this part says it all.

You read Scripture and YOU know how to properly interpret it.

Thank You

 

[Marymog]

These are referencing spiritual aspects. Jesus is saying unless you ingest him (his values) you miss out. A similar passage saying the same thing is that of staying connected to the vine, 'without me you can do nothing' he says. That's a definitive statement.
Just as we ingest bread to live ie it becomes part of our system so our relationship with Jesus is to be as intimate.

Some who heard him say these things thought he was talking literally. They missed the point because they chose to stay in the dark.

Really????.....Ingest his values????? WOW.....that's a new theory I have never heard and different then the 2,000 year teaching of The Church.

@Mayflower @Stan B and @amadeus "like" your theory....even though @amadeus has presented a different theory on the same subject in the past he for some bizarre reason likes yours also.

Thank you for your time

 

[amadeus]

Really????.....Ingest his values????? WOW.....that's a new theory I have never heard and different then the 2,000 year teaching of The Church.

@Mayflower @Stan B and @amadeus "like" your theory....even though @amadeus has presented a different theory on the same subject in the past he for some bizarre reason likes yours also.

Thank you for your time

Actually what @quietthinker said was not so far from what I believe. You call it "theory" but I would call it rather a "vision" as the scripture describes it. My vision while perhaps still in the area of which Apostle Paul mentions is improving with each touch by Jesus. You have your vision, but do you believe it is already face to face clear or is it growing better as you walk with the Lord?

 

[farouk]

I know this may be difficult for some christians to hear, but I find it difficult to attend church on a weekly basis. Well my job for 1, weekend option RN, but not making excuses for weekend option.

1. I'm introverted
2. I don't like music, I'm tone death
3. I don't especially like the meet and greet thing, where you turn to your right and left, backwards and forward and make introductions, shake hands etc, has always made me very uncomfortable...my wife doesn't like this part of the service also and she is extroverted lol.
4. I do more studying and praying every day of the week. 1 or 2 hours on Sunday seems minimal compared to my daily study.

Ok, this is what I do know. There are multiple verses in the Bible where Jesus talks about gathering yourselves together in worship. my favorite is Matthew 18:20 (KJV), For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

In addition, I will add that Church is great for accountability, great for being involved and actually being responsible for task like teaching or witnessing to others, even church yard maintenance.

So my plan from here, is to continue trying to attend church, but start a home bible study group at my home during the week, under the guidance of the church I am presently attending. This way, when I miss those weekend church services or don't feel like going (mostly from anxiety of being around other people), I will have home bible studies where I gather with other christians. SOUND LIKE A PLAN?

Acts 2.41-42 is a good guide for various local church activities.

 

[Mayflower]

Really????.....Ingest his values????? WOW.....that's a new theory I have never heard and different then the 2,000 year teaching of The Church.

@Mayflower @Stan B and @amadeus "like" your theory....even though @amadeus has presented a different theory on the same subject in the past he for some bizarre reason likes yours also.

Thank you for your time

Well it means to take what Christ teaches to heart. Renew the mind. Let the Word become life and energy like food is life and energy to the body since we must follow Christ to live an abundant life.

I like analogies...

 

[farouk]

Well it means to take what Christ teaches to heart. Renew the mind. Let the Word become life and energy like food is life and energy to the body since we must follow Christ to live an abundant life.

I like analogies...

Feeding on the Apostles' doctrine (Acts 2.42) in the Word is indeed healthy... :)

 

[Bobby Jo]

Acts 2.41-42 is a good guide for various local church activities.

And once again, -- this is terrible advice.

And once again, -- 1 Cor. 14:26 gives CORRECT advice:

1 Cor. 14:26 What then, brethren? When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification. 27 If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn; and let one interpret. 28 But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silence in church and speak to himself and to God. 29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others weigh what is said. 30 If a revelation is made to another sitting by, let the first be silent. 31 For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all be encouraged ...​

ANY suggestion that we should be under a MAN is ILL ADVISED. We are to be individually LED by GOD and fellowship with men, -- not LED by MEN, and fellowship with GOD.


Adam's "head" was/is GOD, but Eve's "head" was/is her husband. So any man who has another man (pastor/priest/minister/HIRELING) as his "head" is a woman. And that's ok if @farouk wants to be a woman, -- it's just not for me. I'll stick with hearing from GOD First Hand! :)


Bobby Jo

 

[brakelite]

Actually what @quietthinker said was not so far from what I believe. You call it "theory" but I would call it rather a "vision" as the scripture describes it. My vision while perhaps still the area of which Apostle mentions is improving with each touch by Jesus. You have your vision, but do you believe it is already face to face clear or is it growing better as you walk with the Lord?

Her vision is 20/20 Amadeus... It must be because her vision isn't her own, it is her church's vision, and that, or so we are told, is perfect. Can't be improved. Infallible.

 

[quietthinker]

Really????.....Ingest his values????? WOW.....that's a new theory I have never heard and different then the 2,000 year teaching of The Church.

@Mayflower @Stan B and @amadeus "like" your theory....even though @amadeus has presented a different theory on the same subject in the past he for some bizarre reason likes yours also.

Thank you for your time

Marymog, I'm really not surprised that you don't understand my expression 'ingest his values' Could it be that you are unfamiliar with all of Jesus's words in the scriptures? One thing is certain, he was not talking about cannibalism neither was he talking about the bread being magically transformed into his literal flesh (body) .....that deduction is the result of a darkened mind, a mind that has adopted the superstitious mumbo jumbo of paganism.
In post #216 Mayflower unfolded 'ingest his values' beautifully.