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Nondenom40
Active Member
John 16:13, the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of truth who leads us into all truth. Well there are a couple of other verses speaking of truth. "Thy word is truth." Also Jesus Himself said in John 14:6 I am the way, and the truth, and the life..Since we never stop growing in this life i have no problem with being led deeper into Christ by the Spirit of truth. And i have no problem with His written word being one of the vehicles helping on this journey.
Couple of things. First, if scripture didn't end with the apostles then Jude 3 is wrong. It says the faith was once for all delivered to the saints...past tense. And the 'the world itself couldn't contain' is a reference to John 21:24
24 This is the disciple who testifies about these things and has written these things, and we know that his testimony is true. 25 There are many other things that Jesus did. If every one of them were written down, I suppose the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.
It doesn't say theres more truth to find. Or that truth lies outside of the written word. It simply says Jesus DID a lot more things than are written down. And if those things were to be written down, it would occupy a lot of books. We shouldn't read into the text what isn't there.
Sorry but nowhere are we told there will be truth either hidden in scripture that we need to dig out centuries or millennia later, or find it outside of scripture. 1 Thess 5 test all things. That test has always been scripture. Jesus very easily could have turned the devil into a piece of dust during his temptation, being God and all. He didn't. Every temptation by the devil was met with Gods written word. We should do the same.
You obviously have your convictions. But see how you are? You mock out of one side of your mouth, while preaching the teachings of men out of the other. You would do well to examine yourself: "Beware, the light in you is not darkness."
I preach Christ crucified. Meaning that He has also risen and gone to the Father (whom is spirit) to complete the work He started, which He now does in spirit...which things you now speak against (obviously, by the spirit of anti-Christ), as if He did not promise any such thing. But you are wrong...and it is He who was correct.
no, again , you .....need to repent.Yeah, evil like the psalms (which do the same but are not evil at all).
Preacher4Truth
Well-Known Member
The irony here is you treat Scripture just like you've stated, you mold it to you and make yourself the authority instead of it, not allowing it to do the opposite, mold you and your beliefs only from what it says, not what you make it say.
Hmmmm. Very troubling you cannot see this!
You are leaving too much out: "My words are spirit", "I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now"...after which He promised to send the Holy Spirit, whom did not only fall on the 12, but on many at the day of Pentecost, as it was foretold and confirmed to be on "all."
And although you are correct to consider His written word one of the vehicles helping on this journey...you are wrong if you do not "press on" letting that "old man" of the flesh die and those words written on tablets be written [in spirit] in your heart, which is not flesh, but spirit also. And this, you should do also, "leaving behind the elementary principles of Christ" of salvation, that you might attain the intended "perfection" by actually "following" Him where He went...which is in spirit, as "God is spirit."
Why should I even go on to read the rest of what you wrote? Will you also now take up blasphemes against the Holy Spirit and His works, as some here do?
Nondenom40
Active Member
Youre cobbling together verses with different contexts. "My words are spirit..." is at the end of John six and the bread of life discourse. "The flesh profits nothing." Is another quote from that discourse. The topic isn't new revelation or new truth. The context is Him being the life giving bread that when we partake He gives us life. And Hes not referring to physically consuming Him as the rcc has grossly misinterpreted. His words are to be taken spiritually, not physically. Read through John. People repeatedly take His words where He is speaking spiritually and interpret them physically.
John 2; tear down this temple and i'll raise it in three days. They thought he was speaking of the temple which took 40-50 years to build. John tells us he was speaking of the temple of his body.
John 3 Nic and Jesus; You must be born again. Nicodemus says we have to go into the womb a second time? Jesus corrects him, what is born of the flesh is flesh, what is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 4 the woman at the well. Jesus said he had living water and if she had that she would never thirst again. Her remark is 'you don't have anything to draw with'. Jesus said he was speaking of the Holy Spirit.
Fast forward to John 6. He fed 1000's one day physically, so they came back wanting more. He changed the eating from physical to spiritual. It has nothing to do with any extra revelation or truth. It has to do with being born again....salvation.
Thats called sanctification.
Perfection is another way of saying spiritually mature. Not absolutely perfect in this life. If it meant perfection in this life why was Paul so disconcerted about his sin in Romans 7?
I give back what i get. If youre not going to respond in full, neither will i. Thanks
You are still not reconciling all, not Jesus promising to say more, the scope of which includes the entire work of the Holy Spirit and even the times of the gentiles. There is no contradiction between this and Jude... "the faith being delivered to all the saints" is not a cutoff, it is a fulfillment of all in all.
Your comment of "past tense" is a good point, but not for that reason. Again, it does not mark a cutoff, but marks the correct timing of when all these things actually occur(ed). Which is not to say, in the past, but rather with God, in the twinkling of an eye, meaning...not in time or in the world at all, but with God. So then, if with God, then the same yesterday, today, and forever, making this entire argument an error of gross misunderstanding that does not even include any future dispensation of scriptures. But rather like the timeless "I am" of God, every word, simply "is." So then, we argue for nothing, not understanding that this time of revelation in spirit by the Holy Spirit, is "not", but is only for our witness, just as "all in Adam" died and are a witness in the flesh. And thus, if our witness then is a witness to the Last Adam, rather than the first...and of the Spirit and not of the flesh, what shall we say...that every word is written on tablets? Heaven forbid!
For which I now give my witness of the Spirit, as is the very purpose of this discussion.
He who has an ear, let him hear. For those who will not, you have your word written on tablets.
Jon Mathews
Active Member
When Jesus told John the Revelator in Revelation 22:18...
"I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book"
... do you believe Jesus was talking about the Book of Revelation only or the entire Scriptures?
Nondenom40
Active Member
Regarding Jude 3, uh no. Its not talking about any 'correct timing'. It specifically says THE FAITH was once for all delivered. The faith was (past tense) delivered. What we have in our bibles is it. Any johnnie come lately doctrines are false and should be rejected. We in our brief lives will never mine all the gold buried within the bible. Why do we need new revelation when we can't unearth all the precious nuggets already in it?
Anthony D'Arienzo
Well-Known Member
Yes scripture is given to guide and protect us from the false ideas we see being expressed in this very thread. Solid post.
If we go to the Greek text from which our English translations have been derived from, I believe that the context in the Greek is different to the context as expressed in the English translations.
This is how I see the context of the Greek expressed in an English paraphrase: -
Jude 1:3: - Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the one delivered to the saints of faith.
Shalom
You are contradicting yourself.
First you are critical of me for "cobbling together verses" doing exactly what Jesus and the apostles did in quoting bits and pieces from prophecies that were not always on topic (which, according to prophecy, is exactly how it is to be, meaning: in parables, where the object is not the subject). Then you go on to give examples of how the words are not so much physical, but spiritual...as if to say it was okay for them to speak in that way, but not for me.
Furthermore, you have it backwards. I piece things together by spiritual discernment, because the scriptures are sealed (confounded by God at Babel) and now come through a glass dimly. But you somehow think you can read it the way the world also reads it, and make perfect sense of it without it being bits and pieces. That is indeed backward, and you don't even know it. I have taken the paints from the palette and presented the intended Masterpiece, and you seem to prefer the mess on the palette. Your religious bent is no better than pop art!
Nonetheless, I have spoken of biblical, spiritual, truths in accordance with what was prophesied to occur, and done so by the precedence of Christ and the apostles. Which, when they did the same, they also were not received, but also condemned by the prominent would-be religious who were actually the blind leaders of their time. Be therefore counted as you will.
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You are right in your observations a lot of "cobbling" going on. The word of God when taken within context is clarion in it's meaning.
The wrong way is what we see in this thread, is to make a word salad out of it , by ripping out catchy familiar spiritual phrases and thinking they are godly but they are kidding themselves. It is clear to all who study the scriptures when they are not using these phrases as they were intended. This is why Scott has refused to quote the scriptures when asked to back up his statements, he cannot because the scriptures would show they don't say what he keep's claiming they say.
Anthony D'Arienzo
Well-Known Member
Your false teachings and excessive hubris notwithstanding, you unscriptural ideas have been exposed.
You have no idea what the bible teaches and this idea that you are like Jesus and the Apostles is really out there.
Every person who has tried to correct you know the bible and find your errors quite stunning.
You naively pass on and double down on your novelties.
We will continue to expose all such falsehoods, so no new believer does not get mislead.
Anthony D'Arienzo
Well-Known Member
Yes. Thankfully everyone is onto this now. Thanks for your solid post.
This makes no sense whatsoever. If you wish to go strictly by the literal Greek rendering, even that is different.
Ἀγαπητοί, πᾶσαν σπουδὴν ποιούμενος γράφειν ὑμῖν περὶ τῆς κοινῆς σωτηρίας, ἀνάγκην ἔσχον γράψαι ὑμῖν παρακαλῶν ἐπαγωνίζεσθαι τῇ ἅπαξ παραδοθείσῃ τοῖς ἁγίοις πίστει.
Beloved all diligence using to write to you concerning the common of us salvation, necessity I had to write to you exhorting [you] to earnestly contend for the once for all having been delivered to the saints faith.
And idiomatically in English, what the KJV states is perfectly correct:
Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort [you] that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
This speaks of the whole body of Christian truth -- "the faith" -- or body of doctrine.
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