Scripture is not the last word.

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Jay Ross

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This makes no sense whatsoever. If you wish to go strictly by the literal Greek rendering, even that is different.

Ἀγαπητοί, πᾶσαν σπουδὴν ποιούμενος γράφειν ὑμῖν περὶ τῆς κοινῆς σωτηρίας, ἀνάγκην ἔσχον γράψαι ὑμῖν παρακαλῶν ἐπαγωνίζεσθαι τῇ ἅπαξ παραδοθείσῃ τοῖς ἁγίοις πίστει.

Beloved all diligence using to write to you concerning the common of us salvation, necessity I had to write to you exhorting [you] to earnestly contend for the once for all having been delivered to the saints faith.

And idiomatically in English, what the KJV states is perfectly correct:
Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort [you] that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.


This speaks of the whole body of Christian truth -- "the faith" -- or body of doctrine.

Enoch, I would not expect my paraphrase to make any sense to you at all as that is your thing to not reflect on what others have written.

This is what I had posted as my paraphrase: -

Jude 1:3: - Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the one delivered to the saints of faith.

Now my question to you is, in my Paraphrase, what thought or previous expression does the word "one" refer back too?

I believe that it is referring back to the words, "common salvation," which has been delivered to the saints of faith, where Paul is possibly referring back to the original 12 disciples who had received the common salvation message from Christ.

It is my view that the moving of the word "faith" away from the word "saints" in the English KJV translation makes the reference to the "saint" fuzz and changes the context altogether of the verse. The difference is in the following portion of both paraphrases.

KJV paraphrase: - earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

My Paraphrase: - contend earnestly for the one delivered to the saints of faith.

The KJV paraphrase could be understood to having once been the salvation/faith message delivered to the saints, but is no longer. In My Paraphrase, it is explicit that the one, i.e. the common salvation, is that which the saints of faith received from Christ.

It really depends on how nit picky we get.

Shalom
 

stunnedbygrace

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When ppl supplant the authority of scripture with voices, this is what you end up with. Foolish post after foolish post.

Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively applied to myself and Apollos for your sakes, so that in us you may learn not to exceed what is written, so that no one of you will become arrogant in behalf of one against the other.[1 Corinthians 4:6]

When ppl go beyond the written, authoritative word of God, pride and arrogance are sure to follow. They boast in their hearing His voice. I work in a hospital that deals with these sorts of ppl. :(

It is stupendous to see someone dealing arrogantly with a brother...and then accuse that brother of being arrogant...
 
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stunnedbygrace

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Justbyfaith, you have done so well here. Just SO WELL. I kept hoping very hard that you would not revile back and I could see that you must have walked with God for a long time to have not been dragged under yourself at fleshy displays of pride and arrogance.

You have so encouraged me!
 
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SovereignGrace

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It is stupendous to see someone dealing arrogantly with a brother...and then accuse that brother of being arrogant...
It is stupendous to see someone who supplants the authority of scripture with hearing God’s voice. If ppl want to hear from God, they must crack open their bible.

That’s not me being an arrogant jerk, but me defending the sufficiency of the Bible.
 
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tabletalk

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Baptist, Lutheran, catholic, SDA, JW or maybe Mormon? Where does one go where the body is built up and edified? All seem to have something against the other and are superior in knowledge to the others. Who helps those at the bottom who don’t fit in anywhere?

You have enough discernment to choose one which is close to the teachings you hold to.
Also, if you are married to a believer, he should lead on this.
It's a lot of work, but you and your husband could actually help build up the church you choose.
 

SovereignGrace

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It is stupendous to see someone dealing arrogantly with a brother...and then accuse that brother of being arrogant...
Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father.[John 14:12]

Now, we know the many miracles the Christ did during His earthly ministry. He even walked on the water, as did Peter. When’s the last time you saw someone do that, walk on water? Remember, what the Christ did, He said they, the believers, would do greater works than He did.

Just because someone says they heard God’s voice, was caught up a la Paul and John, don’t think for one second I’ll believe them unless what they say lines up with the scriptures.

Everyone harps on healing the sick, raising the dead, &c. I want these who say they have done these miracles to record themselves walking on the water.
 

stunnedbygrace

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Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father.[John 14:12]

Now, we know the many miracles the Christ did during His earthly ministry. He even walked on the water, as did Peter. When’s the last time you saw someone do that, walk on water? Remember, what the Christ did, He said they, the believers, would do greater works than He did.

Just because someone says they heard God’s voice, was caught up a la Paul and John, don’t think for one second I’ll believe them unless what they say lines up with the scriptures.

Everyone harps on healing the sick, raising the dead, &c. I want these who say they have done these miracles to record themselves walking on the water.

So your complaint is that you haven't seen the greater works than He did?

And since you haven't seen them, you then make scripture to fit with what your eyes see, instead of looking for what might be the reason for seeing what appears to be a church with little strength?
 

stunnedbygrace

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If God speaks to someone and they write it down, it becomes scripture. That’s how scripture came about.

Hmm...I heard God speak to me one time, 4 words, locutions the old saints used to call them. He said, in my ear, "do you trust Me? I have now written down what He asked me. Is it now scripture? No.
 
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VictoryinJesus

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You have enough discernment to choose one which is close to the teachings you hold to.
Also, if you are married to a believer, he should lead on this.
It's a lot of work, but you and your husband could actually help build up the church you choose.

Thank you. Your post makes me see maybe my husband has already spoken and I haven’t listened. There is a church in walking distance from our home. It is an old-school Baptist all- the-way church. The congregation is so full Sunday mornings they are needing to build bigger. My husband says it is where he has felt discipled and fellowship with the men. I’m the one who doesn’t fit and maybe I haven’t tried to.
 

stunnedbygrace

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VIJ, could you explain further what you mean when you say "not fitting in?"
 

stunnedbygrace

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VIJ, I'd also like to hear more regarding the post where you said, where were you these past 3 or 4 days when I was struggling so hard with my faith/trust?
 

VictoryinJesus

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VIJ, could you explain further what you mean when you say "not fitting in?"

I’ve been reclusive my whole life. My mother is the same. If I had the choice between isolation or a crowd...I’d choose isolation. My husband is the opposite and fits in easily wherever he goes with whoever he is around. One social and needing others —the other the opposite. It has been a challenge and I do believe I’ve held him back from others.
 
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VictoryinJesus

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VIJ, I'd also like to hear more regarding the post where you said, where were you these past 3 or 4 days when I was struggling so hard with my faith/trust?

Do you remember in the Old Testament when the prophet challenged the false prophets to call down fire and their idol didn’t show up? But God ...the Living God...showed up when called upon and did exactly what He said He would do. I know God is real. But sometimes I doubt and it is as if I’m calling as those false prophets did and there is only silence. Nothing. My biggest fear and depression comes from what if He is not alive. What if like all the dead idols which have no breath or life and do not show up when called ...what if He is the same and just another idol without Life. I could take anything except ...Him not being the Living God. Atheists come here and say our God is not real. That He is just another religious idol. I ask God to please show up. They say they also believed once and called for His help and He never came. God said He came so that we could have Hope. Sometimes I feel like a dog chasing its tail ‘round and ‘round until it is exhausted. The darkest place of depression for me is in wondering if the God I’ve called on doesn’t answer...nothing but silence...like when they called on a false god who was not real...what then? As the disciples said “where would we go?”

I guess the question is: why is He elusive?
 
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farouk

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I’ve been reclusive my whole life. My mother is the same. If I had the choice between isolation or a crowd...I’d choose isolation. My husband is the opposite and fits in easily wherever he goes with whoever he is around. One social and needing others —the other the opposite. It has been a challenge and I do believe I’ve held him back from others.
The theme of fellowship in a book such as 1 John makes for a good study.

Temperamentally we are all different, and this is fine.
 
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farouk

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Do you remember in the Old Testament when the prophet challenged the false prophets to call down fire and their idol didn’t show up? But God ...the Living God...showed up when called upon and did exactly what He said He would do. I know God is real. But sometimes I doubt and it is as if I’m calling as those false prophets did and there is only silence. Nothing. My biggest fear and depression comes from what if He is not alive. What if like all the dead idols which have no breath or life and do not show up when called ...what if He is the same and just another idol without Life. I could take anything except ...Him not being the Living God. Atheists come here and say our God is not real. That He is just another religious idol. I ask God to please show up. They say they also believed once and called for His help and He never came. God said He came so that we could have Hope. Sometimes I feel like a dog chasing its tail ‘round and ‘round until it is exhausted. The darkest place of depression for me is in wondering if the God I’ve called on doesn’t answer...nothing but silence...like when they called on a false god who was not real...what then? As the disciples said “where would we go?”

I guess the question is: why is He elusive?
In Ephesians chapters 1 and 2, His Resurrection and our regeneration and faith are linked; they follow on.
 
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VictoryinJesus

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. I want these who say they have done these miracles to record themselves walking on the water.

Depends on how one defines “walking on water” a physical miracle no doubt but also is there not more spoken in the words? Matthew 14:28-30
[28] And Peter answered him and said, Lord, if it be thou, bid me come unto thee on the water. [29] And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Jesus. [30] But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me.

“Lord, if it be thou, bid me come unto thee on the water.” Shouldn't we ask Him to bid us to come on the water? For perfect love to cast out fear...for fear is torment...

Psalm 83:14-18
As the fire burneth a wood, and as the flame setteth the mountains on fire; [15] So persecute them with thy tempest, and make them afraid with thy storm. [16] Fill their faces with shame; that they may seek thy name, O Lord . [17] Let them be confounded and troubled for ever; yea, let them be put to shame, and perish: [18] That men may know that thou, whose name alone is Jehovah , art the most high over all the earth.

Isaiah 28:2
[2] Behold, the Lord hath a mighty and strong one, which as a tempest of hail and a destroying storm, as a flood of mighty waters overflowing, shall cast down to the earth with the hand.


Isaiah 54:10-11
For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed; but my kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed, saith the Lord that hath mercy on thee. [11] O thou afflicted, tossed with tempest, and not comforted, behold, I will lay thy stones with fair colours, and lay thy foundations with sapphires.

See many have claimed the comforter was not sent to all those whom believe but only to the Apostles because they had to complete to writing of the canon. What about His seed and His fruit prospering and increasing and multiplying on the earth. “Lord, if it be thou, bid me come unto thee on the water.” not appointed to wrath. Fear cast out. To step out and walk above a tempest and terror and waves roaring. Wasn’t He showing His body above the torment? Ephesians 4:14
That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;


Walking over it; walking as seen in the Revelation of Jesus Christ those of Him stand on a sea of glass...the sea as calm and still as the peace He spoke to the storm? Romans 16:20
[20] And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

We can’t forget He is to subdue all under His feet...isn’t this the power seen by His walking on the sea untouched by the elements of nature raging. To order and command the wind, the waves, the storm and the calm... “Lord, if it be thou, bid me come unto thee on the water.”

2 Peter 2:17-18
[17] These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever. [18] For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.

What water are you talking of walking on?
 
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tzcho2

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Do you remember in the Old Testament when the prophet challenged the false prophets to call down fire and their idol didn’t show up? But God ...the Living God...showed up when called upon and did exactly what He said He would do. I know God is real. But sometimes I doubt and it is as if I’m calling as those false prophets did and there is only silence. Nothing. My biggest fear and depression comes from what if He is not alive. What if like all the dead idols which have no breath or life and do not show up when called ...what if He is the same and just another idol without Life. I could take anything except ...Him not being the Living God. Atheists come here and say our God is not real. That He is just another religious idol. I ask God to please show up. They say they also believed once and called for His help and He never came. God said He came so that we could have Hope. Sometimes I feel like a dog chasing its tail ‘round and ‘round until it is exhausted. The darkest place of depression for me is in wondering if the God I’ve called on doesn’t answer...nothing but silence...like when they called on a false god who was not real...what then? As the disciples said “where would we go?”

I guess the question is: why is He elusive?

It is Only us who place barriers , it is not God who is elusive. God doesn't play games hiding on us. God can change you if you are willing. He Loves you and stands waiting for you to come all the way to Him. He will give you a new heart. Sometimes people begin to believe--but they have not yet received Jesus and His grace.
Watch the video & Lee's testimony that I linked, I think it will help you.
For myself, I didn't feel close to God until I truly got humbled ,I was convicted by the Holy Spirit and truly saw myself as a despicable unworthy sinner, and repented & submitted myself and my life to Jesus as my Lord and Savior. At that time, I was willing to make a commitment by overcoming my resistance by seeking Him my whole heart, I attended Bible study, I sought out and attended faithfully a Bible believing humble church that preached THE BIBLE scripture by scripture. I worshiped with others and I prayed asking God to let me HEAR the Holy Spirit's teaching through that Pastor. I took a bible and used a highlighter & red ink in it to make notes in the margins on the scriptures.
Prior to that , when I was skeptical and seeking I listened to testimonies like from Lee Stobel to know why I should believe that Jesus was not just a legend, but HE is the Son of God who was crucified on Calvary and Jesus arose from the dead and that all the accounts in the bible are TRUTH. I humbly went on my knees and asked God for forgiveness for my life of rebelliousness & my doubt. I asked the Lord to forgive me my stubborness & the sins that I committed against HIM and I read the Psalms and prayed.
Lee Strobel A Case For Christ testimony-
God's Promises are real. God will spiritually wash away your sins, He will cleanse you from all your impurities, He will Give you a New heart and a New Spirit. When that happens you will know that you belong to Jesus, that you are one of His sheep for ever more!
Ezekiel 36:26
"25 I will also sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean. I will cleanse you from all your impurities and all your idols.
26
I Will Give You a NEW HEART and Put a New Spirit within You;
I will remove your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.

27 And I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes and to carefully observe My ordinances.…"
 
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