Easter ? What are we celebrating?

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Now - I've already schooled you on the fact that the Greek word used for "Evening" in Matt. 15:52 Ὀψίας (opsias), is a very loose term that encompasses SEVERAL HOURS. Your entire position is one of sour grapes because you have LOST this argument.

Why does the BOL allege "'"Evening" in Matt. 15:52 Ὀψίας (opsias), is a very loose term that encompasses SEVERAL HOURS'"?
Here is according to the BOL, why,
"'ALL happened on the SAME day - the day that Jesus was crucified'", so that " '"Evening" in Matt. 15:52 [Sic.] Ὀψίας (opsias),'" after 6 PM sunset, can be the same as "'on the SAME day - the day that Jesus was crucified'" and died "the ninth hour" 3 PM three and more hours before.

What a bad teacher I had to school me!

 

[BreadOfLife]

The above is not even random “‘cherry-picking verses’”; it is cherry picking whole verses to discard,

for one word they contain—the word
“‘"Evening", Ὀψίας (opsias)’” in Mark 15:42 and Matthew 27:57.

“‘Now - pay attention. … I expressly stated that MARK used it .."Evening", Ὀψίας (opsias) .. in Mark 15:42. … Now - …. It is about 3:00 in the afternoon and Jesus has just died: John 19:31 Now IT WAS THE DAY OF PREPARATION,’”

Yes, that’s it, BOL’s disposal technique to cherry-pick verses—
LEAVE OUT cardinal verses because they in “‘CONTEXT’” are

the very ones using the words “"Evening", Ὀψίας (opsias) already had

come since it was / continued to be the Preparation which is the Fore-Sabbath (‘Thursday-night’) .. there came Joseph…” Mark 15:42 Matthew 27:57 Luke 23:50,
“since / so that / NOW it WAS the Day of Preparation the Jews asked… and after these things Joseph besought…” John 19:31,38.

And you can wish and dream and LIE all you want - but the Day of Preparation for the Sabbath has ALWAYS been Friday.

You LOSE because you LIE . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Why does the BOL allege "'"Evening" in Matt. 15:52 Ὀψίας (opsias), is a very loose term that encompasses SEVERAL HOURS'"?
Here is according to the BOL, why,
"'ALL happened on the SAME day - the day that Jesus was crucified'", so that " '"Evening" in Matt. 15:52 [Sic.] Ὀψίας (opsias),'" after 6 PM sunset, can be the same as "'on the SAME day - the day that Jesus was crucified'" and died "the ninth hour" 3 PM three and more hours before.
What a bad teacher I had to school me!

And since you're such a glutton for punishment and humiliation - I am happy to indulge you.

Mark 15:34-37
And at three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”).
When some of those standing near heard this, they said, “Listen, he’s calling Elijah.”
Someone ran, filled a sponge with wine vinegar, put it on a staff, and offered it to Jesus to drink. “Now leave him alone. Let’s see if Elijah comes to take him down,” he said.
With a loud cry, Jesus breathed his last.


As I pointed out in post #208 - Strong's Greek Concordance defines Ὀψίας (opsias) as:
2a) from 3:00 to 6:00
2b) from 6:00 to the beginning of night.

I would LOVE to say that I simply pulled this out of my derriere - like YOU do with so many of your "facts" - but it came from an authoritative Greek source.

It's time to just admit you were wrong and move on . . .

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Well you have both, and you cannot ignore Justin's testimony in good faith. So what you are doing is showing bad faith. Not a Christian trait.

Paul could have met with the Christians at Troas at anytime, but the record shows that he waited for seven days in order to be at the church gathering on the first day of the week. And that is when he preached until midnight.

For those who whine about the Lord's Day being the day of the sun, they should study what the day of the evil god Saturn is all about. In any case that is totally irrelevant, and Sunday worship is certainly not connected with the Mark of the Beast (as some believe).

Well, if screwing up Scripture testifies anything, Sunday cannot but be the Mark of the Beast.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

And since you're such a glutton for punishment and humiliation - I am happy to indulge you.
As I pointed out in post #208 - Strong's Greek Concordance defines Ὀψίας (opsias) as:
2a) from 3:00 to 6:00
2b) from 6:00 to the beginning of night.

I would LOVE to say that I simply pulled this out of my derriere - like YOU do with so many of your "facts" - but it came from an authoritative Greek source.

It's time to just admit you were wrong and move on . . .

And I schooled you to consult the old, first, written edition(s) of Strong's. But you are not the most teachable of pupils.

And sommer consult all the authoritative Greek sources one might still find on the shelves and or in the archives of libraries.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

And you can wish and dream and LIE all you want - but the Day of Preparation for the Sabbath has ALWAYS been Friday.

You LOSE because you LIE . . .

Have ALWAYS maintained the same. It's just what it says, in Mark 15:42 in Matthew 27:57 in John 19:31,38 in Luke 23:50 "since being The Preparation which is the Fore-Sabbath .. That Day was great day-of-sabbath" of the passover Abib 15 -- NOT "the Preparation of the Passover" Abib 14 in John 19:14.

 

[BreadOfLife]

And I schooled you to consult the old, first, written edition(s) of Strong's. But you are not the most teachable of pupils.
And sommer consult all the authoritative Greek sources one might still find on the shelves and or in the archives of libraries.

Ummmmm, any 1st year Middle School student understands that the reason there are updated editions to textbooks is because new things have been learned about what is being taught in them.

The study of linguistics is dynamic because NOBODY who is alive now was alive n the 1st century.
I thought you might have understood that - but with your and ignorance - I'm NOT surprised . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Have ALWAYS maintained the same. It's just what it says, in Mark 15:42 in Matthew 27:57 in John 19:31,38 in Luke 23:50 "since being The Preparation which is the Fore-Sabbath .. That Day was great day-of-sabbath" of the passover Abib 15 -- NOT "the Preparation of the Passover" Abib 14 in John 19:14.

No, your argument all along is that Jesus was NOT laid in the tomb until the day AFTER he died - and your argument has been soundly defeated . . .

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Ummmmm, any 1st year Middle School student understands that the reason there are updated editions to textbooks is because new things have been learned about what is being taught in them.

The study of linguistics is dynamic because NOBODY who is alive now was alive n the 1st century.
I thought you might have understood that - but with your and ignorance - I'm NOT surprised . . .

Dynamic equivalent --not disciple because you are not Protestant-- but dynamic equivalent apostle because you are Roman Catholic, absolutely true! I could have told from the word go of this conversation.

Then use your DE renditions, not the real Translations of the Protestants.

To use the real Translations means,
A. don't make the Noun 'opsia'-"evening" after sunset, an Adverb 'afternoon' before sunset;
B. don't make the Past Perfect Ingressive Aorist / Past Perfect Constative Aorist 'ehn'-"had become the Preparation"/"the Preparation began and lasted", an Imperfect or Future "Friday approached".

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

No, your argument all along is that Jesus was NOT laid in the tomb until the day AFTER he died - and your argument has been soundly defeated . . .

Correct, my argument all along has been that Jesus was NOT laid in the tomb until the day AFTER He died which day of his Burial started in Mark 15:42//Matthew 27:57//Luke 23:50//John 19:31,38 and ENDED in Luke 23:54-56a//Mark 15:47//Matthew 27:61//John19:41,42.
You 'defeated' your back-yard strapped up straw-man, Don BOL!

 

[BreadOfLife]

Dynamic equivalent --not disciple because you are not Protestant-- but dynamic equivalent apostle because you are Roman Catholic, absolutely true! I could have told from the word go of this conversation.

Then use your DE renditions, not the real Translations of the Protestants.

To use the real Translations means,
A. don't make the Noun 'opsia'-"evening" after sunset, an Adverb 'afternoon' before sunset;
B. don't make the Past Perfect Ingressive Aorist / Past Perfect Constative Aorist 'ehn'-"had become the Preparation"/"the Preparation began and lasted", an Imperfect or Future "Friday approached".

More bitter double-speak from the loser of the argument.

Ummmmmm, I think I'll take Strong's word for it - and not some ignorant, angry, anti-Catholic who doesn't know how to rightly divide Scripture . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Correct, my argument all along has been that Jesus was NOT laid in the tomb until the day AFTER He died which day of his Burial started in Mark 15:42//Matthew 27:57//Luke 23:50//John 19:31,38 and ENDED in Luke 23:54-56a//Mark 15:47//Matthew 27:61//John19:41,42.
You 'defeated' your back-yard strapped up straw-man, Don BOL!

I simply showed - using the entire CONTEXT of the Burial narratives - that YOU were wrong and the CHURCH has been right for 2000 years.

I warned you that cherry-picking verses just leads to the massive confusion that you've found yourself in . . .

 

[Deborah_]

don't make the Past Perfect Ingressive Aorist / Past Perfect Constative Aorist 'ehn'-"had become the Preparation"/"the Preparation began and lasted", an Imperfect or Future "Friday approached".

Sorry, but 'ehn' IS an imperfect. There's no such tense as the "past perfect ingressive aorist" or the "past perfect constative aorist" in Greek.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

I simply showed - using the entire CONTEXT of the Burial narratives - that YOU were wrong and the CHURCH has been right for 2000 years.

I warned you that cherry-picking verses just leads to the massive confusion that you've found yourself in . . .

Thanks for telling me ... and the world ... AND THE CHURCH ... and maybe God.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Sorry, but 'ehn' IS an imperfect. There's no such tense as the "past perfect ingressive aorist" or the "past perfect constative aorist" in Greek.

Greek punks when they got angry and wanted to make their point used Aorist; that’s why it is called Punctiliar Tense.

Shall I leave you off the hook? No, damn it, but I'll be nice to you and give you must be the politest and most Christian confirmation I know of, Dana and Mantey Par. 180.
Now who said 'ehn' is not an Imperfect? I? Where? But saying 'ehn' is an Imperfect does not mean 'ehn' is not an Aorist, in fact the most obvious of Aorist because it consists of the Aorist suffix.

In any case, if I am not mistaken, the debate at the moment is not in the first place about it having been The Preparation which is the Fore-Sabbath in John 19:31 AS in Mark 15:42 AS in Matthew 27:57 AS in Luke 23:50 the Context being the arrival and undertaking of Joseph or not, but in the first place about it having been THE EVENING ALREADY in John 19:31 AS in Mark 15:42 AS in Matthew 27:57 AS in Luke 23:50 the Context being the arrival and undertaking of Joseph, the word being used, not ‘ehn’, but ‘genomenehs’ – an Aorist Partisium.

Anything else you would like to argue about, perhaps a little more uncivilized because it makes it more interesting, like the BOL excels in?

 

[Deborah_]

Now who said 'ehn' is not an Imperfect? I? Where? But saying 'ehn' is an Imperfect does not mean 'ehn' is not an Aorist, in fact the most obvious of Aorist because it consists of the Aorist suffix.

Sorry, I try not to do uncivilised argument. But I also try not to let people get away with nonsense. Obviously you don't know any Greek yourself, so where did you get this stuff from? A "punctiliar" tense means "referring to a point in time", not "making their point"! The Greek aorist suffix is actually 's', not 'ehn', and the verb "to be" can't have an aorist tense anyway, because 'being' is always a continuous state.

 

[marksman]

Well you have both, and you cannot ignore Justin's testimony in good faith. So what you are doing is showing bad faith. Not a Christian trait.

Paul could have met with the Christians at Troas at anytime, but the record shows that he waited for seven days in order to be at the church gathering on the first day of the week. And that is when he preached until midnight.

For those who whine about the Lord's Day being the day of the sun, they should study what the day of the evil god Saturn is all about. In any case that is totally irrelevant, and Sunday worship is certainly not connected with the Mark of the Beast (as some believe).

Where did you get this idea that I cannot ignore Justin's testimony? Having studied the Word and church history for many years, I can and do choose who I will ignore and who I will not ignore.

 

[marksman]

Well you have both, and you cannot ignore Justin's testimony in good faith. So what you are doing is showing bad faith. Not a Christian trait.

Paul could have met with the Christians at Troas at anytime, but the record shows that he waited for seven days in order to be at the church gathering on the first day of the week. And that is when he preached until midnight.

For those who whine about the Lord's Day being the day of the sun, they should study what the day of the evil god Saturn is all about. In any case that is totally irrelevant, and Sunday worship is certainly not connected with the Mark of the Beast (as some believe).

Where did you get this idea that I cannot ignore Justin's testimony? Having studied the Word and church history for many years, I can and do choose who I will ignore and who I will not ignore.

 

[marksman]

No - my Lord Jesus is the Bread of Life (John 6:35).
My handle on this forum is simply a tribute to HIM.

Let me know when you're ready to have a grown-up discussion where you actually address the questions asked of you instead of being evasive and dishonest.
Until then, however - I will continue to expose your dishonesty at EVERY turn . . .

Yes O righteous one. Be my guest. I am sure it will make you feel better putting everyone right.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Sorry, I try not to do uncivilised argument. But I also try not to let people get away with nonsense. Obviously you don't know any Greek yourself, so where did you get this stuff from? A "punctiliar" tense means "referring to a point in time", not "making their point"! The Greek aorist suffix is actually 's', not 'ehn', and the verb "to be" can't have an aorist tense anyway, because 'being' is always a continuous state.

I'm good! You reacted 100% the way I expected and led you to react. Man, I'm good at psychology, what at Greek!

Basics: Read the NIV Mark 15:42 interpreting the Greek as an Imperfect, 'evening approached' I think it says, meaning, 'evening was approaching' renderable ONLY with an Imperfect or Future in NT Koine Greek. Well, make me and the KJV liars, or face the truth the NIV is Antichrist perversion of the Text.

Make of me whatever you find pleasure in. Despise my ignorance of Greek. And call the Punctiliar Ingressive / Constative Aorist in Mark 15:42 and John 19:31 "'nonsense'". Yes, do it HERE where 'people' may read and decide for Scripture Truth or devil's murderous Lie.

Thank you that you are doing just that; I pray your own 'stuff' eventually might bring you to different understanding.