Limited Atonement VS Universal Atonement

[justbyfaith]

But you're quoting church context and trying to apply it to Israel context. That don't fly.

It does with me.

Abraham is the prime example that Paul gives for someone in the OT who was justified by faith, as a prototype for New Testament righteousness.

Also, Israel was the "church in the wilderness" (Acts of the Apostles 7:38).

 

[CoreIssue]

Another problem. The key to what you're arguing is he returned, but during that whole time from when he left till he returned he was in the the pigpen so to speak.

So are you claiming he was justified the whole time?

Same with Peter, since he denied Christ while still under the OT.

You have to keep the timelines straight.

 

[justbyfaith]

Another problem. The key to what you're arguing is he returned, but during that whole time from when he left till he returned he was in the the pigpen so to speak.

So are you claiming he was justified the whole time?

Same with Peter, since he denied Christ while still under the OT.

You have to keep the timelines straight.

Yes, he was justified the whole time; from God's perspective of seeing the end from the beginning.

 

[justbyfaith]

edited #501 (Limited Atonement VS Universal Atonement)

 

[CoreIssue]

It does with me.

Abraham is the prime example that Paul gives for someone in the OT who was justified by faith, as a prototype for New Testament righteousness.

The church didn't even exist then. Christ had not died yet. Christ had not resurrected yet.

So you can say it applies but there's no way you can justify that it applies because it doesn't.

 

[justbyfaith]

The church didn't even exist then. Christ had not died yet. Christ had not resurrected yet.

So you can say it applies but there's no way you can justify that it applies because it doesn't.

Here is your homework assignment: start reading through the entire epistle of Paul to the Romans once per week. On a separate day, read Galatians through Colossians.

If you can gain an understanding of these books, you will do well.

 

[CoreIssue]

Here is your homework assignment: start reading through the entire epistle of Paul to the Romans once per week. On a separate day, read Galatians through Colossians.

If you can gain an understanding of these books, you will do well.

I studied for 57 years so don't lecture me about study.

 

[justbyfaith]

I studied for 57 years so don't lecture me about study.

Then you should have known the basics of what I said to you in post #501:

It does with me.

Abraham is the prime example that Paul gives for someone in the OT who was justified by faith, as a prototype for New Testament righteousness.

Also, Israel was the "church in the wilderness" (Acts of the Apostles 7:38).

This is "Understanding Faith Righteousness 101", in Paul's epistle to the Romans.

Maybe you were studying with the wrong people.

 

[justbyfaith]

Here is your homework assignment: start reading through the entire epistle of Paul to the Romans once per week. On a separate day, read Galatians through Colossians.

If you can gain an understanding of these books, you will do well.

I studied for 57 years so don't lecture me about study.

PS you consider that a lecture? Then how will you be able to handle a message of even one paragraph? As for a real message, I don't have much hope for you...

The author of the 13 chapter book of Hebrews said that he had written to them in few words!

 

[justbyfaith]

I suppose that I should humble myself before your age and wisdom...however I think that here, Job 32:6-8, Job 32:9-10, and 1 Timothy 4:12, apply.

 

[H. Richard]

PS you consider that a lecture? Then how will you be able to handle a message of even one paragraph? As for a real message, I don't have much hope for you...

The author of the 13 chapter book of Hebrews said that he had written to them in few words!

Why are posters writing about other posters? Is that what a forum is all about?

This thread is about limited or universal salvation. or is it a place to build a person's ego?

 

[justbyfaith]

It is not what the forum is all about...but posters writing to other posters is certainly a major aspect of what a forum is all about.

 

[BreadOfLife]

My understanding of that verse is that the fool denies the existence of the Lord in his heart because he does not understand how God can both be Omnipotent and loving in light of the evil that we see in the world.

So, it is not that only the fool is the subject of total depravity...for scripture teaches that all are in the state of depravity from conception...the fool denies the existence of God because of the reality of total depravity...for he does not understand how God can exist in light of the fact of it.

So yes, Mary is indeed included in the "all" of Romans 3:23. Jesus Himself is the only One who is not included in that mess...2 Corinthians 5:21, Hebrews 4:15, 1 Peter 2:22, 1 John 3:5. No verses in scripture like that about Mary...unless you want to change the spelling in 1 Corinthians 7:28, reading it phonetically.... Maybe that's where they get that doctrine, for all I know...

And here’s where you’re wrong:

If you truly believe that Rom. 3:23 is referring to ALL people – then “ALL” does include Jesus because Rom. 3:23 doesn’t exclude Him.

You would ALSO have to include infants.
REALLY?? How does an infant sin??
How does an unborn child sin. They are included in “ALL”.
What about the severely retarded who don’t have full use of their faculties?? Do THEY sin??

Your perverse interpretation of Scripture doesn’t allow you to see when it is using inclusive language like Rom. 3:23. This verse is akin to saying “Everybody in town came to see the parade.” It simply means that MOST Of the town was there.

Another example is when the Magi came to Jerusalem looking for the baby Jesus.
Matt. 2:3 says:
When King Herod heard this he was disturbed, and ALL Jerusalem with him.

REALLY??
Was “ALL” of Jerusalem disturbed?? Adults, children – babies??
OR – is this just another case of inclusive language like Rom 3:23??

ONCE again – CONTEXT is like Kryptonite to you Calvinists . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

No, sanctification is the process. Rom 10:9 is the one time event

Sanctification is the process that makes you HOLY. It is PART of the process of salvation.
Rev. 21:27 assures us that you cannot enter Heaven until you are PERFECT – which you ain’t.

I LOVE it when ignorant Calvinists take Rom. 10:9 out of context because it illustrates how little you know of Scripture. As I showed you before – Matt. 7:21 tells us that NOT ALL who call upon His name will be saved but ONLY the one who DOES the Father’s will.

Context is KRYPTONITE to you Calvinists . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Demons believe in name only. Abraham believed in God,

WRONG.

James tells us that the demons believe and TREMBLE (James 2:19). They know who God is and they and it causes them to tremble to their very core.

In “name only”, indeed.
What Bible are YOU reading??

 

[BreadOfLife]

Jeremiah 32:38-40 takes care of the loophole that you find in John 10:27-30 quite nicely, however.

Not at ALL.

Jer. 32:38-40 talks about the tools God gives us to remain faithful.

John 10:27-30 talks about the fact that nobody can take us away from God – which is true. You will NOT be able to blame ANYBODY for walking away from God when you are judged.

As I have repeatedly posted – and YOU guys have repeatedly dodged – the verses I have presented that show born again Christians with an EPIGNOSIS of Christ and the danger they face if they walk away from Him.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Sanctification is the process that makes you HOLY. It is PART of the process of salvation.
Rev. 21:27 assures us that you cannot enter Heaven until you are PERFECT – which you ain’t.

I LOVE it when ignorant Calvinists take Rom. 10:9 out of context because it illustrates how little you know of Scripture. As I showed you before – Matt. 7:21 tells us that NOT ALL who call upon His name will be saved but ONLY the one who DOES the Father’s will.

Context is KRYPTONITE to you Calvinists . . .

Uhh no, we are made perfect by His sacrifice on the cross through belief and confession, Rom 10:9. BOL, Matt 7:21 is referring to how you can;t work yourself into heaven. Repent, believe and confess that Jesus died on the cross for your sins. Remember, God is not pleased with your animal sacrifices and filthy works.. youtube(dot)com/watch?v=ModWgnl-oas

 

[Heb 13:8]

WRONG.

James tells us that the demons believe and TREMBLE (James 2:19). They know who God is and they and it causes them to tremble to their very core.

In “name only”, indeed.
What Bible are YOU reading??

Right, demons know God but they never received the free gift of salvation

 

[BreadOfLife]

Uhh no, we are made perfect by His sacrifice on the cross through belief and confession, Rom 10:9. BOL, Matt 7:21 is referring to how you can;t work yourself into heaven. Repent, believe and confess that Jesus died on the cross for your sins. Remember, God is not pleased with your animal sacrifices and filthy works.. youtube(dot)com/watch?v=ModWgnl-oas

So, YOU are perfect??

 

[BreadOfLife]

Right, demons know God but they never received the free gift of salvation

Because they're not OBEDIENT.
We can be saved only through our COOPERATION with God's grace.