Proof: You were only forgiven of your past sins!

[bbyrd009]

we have a passage on these disingenuous wolf blessings too i guess

 

[Taken]

we have a passage on these disingenuous wolf blessings too i guess

I can hope for a change, and if realized, accept it.
Adduder Brodder is okay by me. :)

God Bless,
Taken

 

[ScottA]

At the moment you were born-again …
you were only forgiven of the sins you had committed up to that point in time!

“For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness,
and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his OLD sins.
Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call
and election sure, for IF you do these things you will never stumble;
for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting
kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.” (2 Peter 1:9-11, NKJV)
“OLD sins” is also in the KJV, RSV, NLT, AMP

“having forgotten his purification from his FORMER sins.” (2 Peter 1:9, NASB)
“FORMER sins” is also in the ESV

“forgetting that they have been cleansed from their PAST sins.” (2 Peter 1:9, NIV)
“PAST sins” is also in the HCSB

Now for some confirming NT passages …

Paul wrote this to the Corinthian church concerning his words of rebuke
in 1 Corinthians that he had sent to them concerning some particular sin(s).
They really needed to be sorrowful and repent.
“… the pain (from his rebuke) caused you to repent and change your ways.
It was the kind of sorrow God wants His people to have, so you were not
harmed by us in any way. For the kind of sorrow God wants us to experience
leads us away from sin and results in salvation. … worldly sorrow, which lacks
repentance, results in spiritual (eternal) death.” (2 Corinthians 7:8-10, NLT)

“Yes, I am afraid that when I come again, God will humble me in your presence.
And I will be grieved because many of you have not given up your old sins.
You have not repented of your impurity, sexual immorality,
and eagerness for lustful pleasure.” (2 Corinthians 12:21, NLT)

Peter is warning believers about God’s destruction of all ungodly and unholy people:
“Then he used the water to destroy the ancient (ungodly) world … the day of judgment,
when ungodly people will be destroyed. … He is being patient for your sake. He does not
want anyone to be destroyed (perish spiritually), but (he) wants everyone to repent.
… what holy and godly lives you should live … (you) make every effort to be found living
peaceful lives that are pure and blameless in his sight. … I am warning you ahead of time
… Be on guard so that you will not be carried away by the errors …” (2 Peter 3:6-17, NLT)

John gives the condition for the Lord to forgive believers’ present sins:
“But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins
and to cleanse us from all wickedness (unrighteousness).” (1 John 1:9, NLT)
“This is an extremely important verse … all men need to be repeatedly purified from all
unrighteousness – from all their sins … We must confess our sins and turn from them
… We must also confess them with our actions … (John) is talking here about repentance
… we must hate our sins and turn from them. This is true repentance.”
(The Applied New Testament Commentary; Dr. Thomas Hale)

2 verses later, John reminds believers to ask Jesus to plead our case before the Father:
“My dear children, I am writing this to you so that you will not sin.
But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate who pleads our case before
the Father. He is Jesus Christ, the one who is truly righteous.” (1 John 2:1, NLT)

Believers are responsible for repenting of their sins after they are born-again!
They have been given the Holy Spirit, a totally new nature, and God’s word.
So, they have been enabled to be victorious overcomers over sin, the world,
and the devil. They have no excuse for failing to do this.

This is not correct. You gave the true answer in your own words and in the scriptures that you quoted, but then you contradict both:

You said, "At the moment you were born-again" and then follow with scripture that says "You have not repented."

One who has not repented - is not born again. That is a contradiction in terms. But now you have come up with your own agenda and are preaching against the word of God.

 

[ScottA]

“Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have
received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice
that will cover these sins” (Hebrews 10:26, NLT)

"Knowledge of the truth" does not make one born again...which you mentioned in you original post, as if anyone who was born again could go on sinning. Which is not the case.

If one is born again, it is no longer they who live, but Christ who lives in them...He whom has no sin in Him.

If you want to address the sins of those who have "heard the knowledge of the truth" but continue in sin...that would be a different issue.

 

[justbyfaith]

i see a pretty unified front against your pov here Dave, just sayin'

Lots of unbelievers here, see also 1 Corinthians 16:9.

 

[justbyfaith]

may as well try to prove that organic food should be called food, and that other stuff should have to use a diff term
Dave. No one has to prove the trinity theory to be wrong, regardless of your feelings on the matter, ok

Yes, organic food is obviously food, that is a no-brainer. Just like the Trinity is faithful doctrine, also a no-brainer. So, in that, no one can prove the Trinity doctrine/truth to be wrong.

Doctrines are called doctrines bc there is no proof, see, otherwise we would call them Truths

1 Timothy 4:16 tells us that sound doctrine ends up being salvational; so it would have to be the truth: otherwise we can be saved through believing in a lie. I assume I am talking to reasonable people here.

Even one biblical verse can have three different opinions on what it is saying by three different people reading it.

2 Corinthians 3:12, Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:

The we here, according to the Holy Spirit, is Paul and the other apostles who were the human authors (who scribed/penned the Bible according to divine inspiration) of holy scripture; as well as those others who have the Holy Spirit and who because of that want to make our message plain rather than confusing in what we speak and write.

2 Peter 1:20, Knowing this first, that no prophecy of scripture is of any private interpretation.

When people disagree as to what the author of the Book has written, my suggestion is that all parties involved should go to the Author (in this case the Spirit of truth) and ask Him what He meant by what He wrote. And I believe that while application can vary for individuals, interpretation of any scripture must be singular, although insight can be gained into what it means further through applying the hermeneutic of 1 Corinthians 2:13 (kjv).

 

[bbyrd009]

Yes, organic food is obviously food, that is a no-brainer.

but that was not the point?

So, in that, no one can prove the Trinity doctrine/truth to be wrong.

but they also cannot prove it to be right

1 Timothy 4:16 tells us that sound doctrine ends up being salvational; so it would have to be the truth: otherwise we can be saved through believing in a lie. I assume I am talking to reasonable people here.

but you are not being reasonable, in that you are asserting Trinity as sound doctrine when Timothy did not

The we here, according to the Holy Spirit, is Paul and the other apostles who were the human authors (who scribed/penned the Bible according to divine inspiration) of holy scripture

Scripture is not Holy, despite our desires wadr

as well as those others who have the Holy Spirit and who because of that want to make our message plain rather than confusing in what we speak and write.

ok, but if you stay on that path you will end up believing that you will all get to heaven someday after you have literally died, rather than in life, more abundantly, and the choice is completely up to you ok

 

[Zachary]

This is not correct. You gave the true answer in your own words and in the scriptures that you quoted, but then you contradict both:
You said, "At the moment you were born-again" and then follow with scripture that says "You have not repented."

Please quote from the OP what you're talking about.
Initial repentance is different that on-going repentance.

 

[bbyrd009]

Please quote from the OP what you're talking about.
Initial repentance is different that on-going repentance.

but forgiveness is not dependent upon rebound, despite the vv that suggest otherwise. i certainly don't mean to not forgive someone who has rebounded, if your brother comes to you seven times a day professing rebound, certainly forgive him also, but this v is usually Quoted as some kind of proof that rebound is required for forgiveness.

"asking for forgiveness" might be a better way to get to a better truth here; there is no Asking for Forgiveness in Scripture!

 

[Jun2u]

there is no Asking for Forgiveness in Scripture!

Yes, there is if we understand the account in Luke 18:10-14.

13) And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14) I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other…

To God Be The Glory

 

[bbyrd009]

Yes, there is if we understand the account in Luke 18:10-14.

13) And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14) I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other…

To God Be The Glory

go with that if you like, but you will not find any "will you please forgive me" there--where you might note the publican did not ask anything, see, even though it is implied in English that is not the tense in the Greek; he is "saying," not "asking"--nor anywhere else in the Book.

Another perspective here is that this is such a ubiquitous assumption, but you can't even Quote it twice?
kinda thing.

 

[ScottA]

Please quote from the OP what you're talking about.
Initial repentance is different that on-going repentance.

At the moment you were born-again …
you were only forgiven of the sins you had committed up to that point in time!

“For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness,
and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his OLD sins.
Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call
and election sure, for IF you do these things you will never stumble;
for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting
kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.” (2 Peter 1:9-11, NKJV)
“OLD sins” is also in the KJV, RSV, NLT, AMP

“having forgotten his purification from his FORMER sins.” (2 Peter 1:9, NASB)
“FORMER sins” is also in the ESV

“forgetting that they have been cleansed from their PAST sins.” (2 Peter 1:9, NIV)
“PAST sins” is also in the HCSB

Now for some confirming NT passages …

Paul wrote this to the Corinthian church concerning his words of rebuke
in 1 Corinthians that he had sent to them concerning some particular sin(s).
They really needed to be sorrowful and repent.
“… the pain (from his rebuke) caused you to repent and change your ways.
It was the kind of sorrow God wants His people to have, so you were not
harmed by us in any way. For the kind of sorrow God wants us to experience
leads us away from sin and results in salvation. … worldly sorrow, which lacks
repentance, results in spiritual (eternal) death.” (2 Corinthians 7:8-10, NLT)

“Yes, I am afraid that when I come again, God will humble me in your presence.
And I will be grieved because many of you have not given up your old sins.
You have not repented of your impurity, sexual immorality,
and eagerness for lustful pleasure.” (2 Corinthians 12:21, NLT)

Peter is warning believers about God’s destruction of all ungodly and unholy people:
“Then he used the water to destroy the ancient (ungodly) world … the day of judgment,
when ungodly people will be destroyed. … He is being patient for your sake. He does not
want anyone to be destroyed (perish spiritually), but (he) wants everyone to repent.
… what holy and godly lives you should live … (you) make every effort to be found living
peaceful lives that are pure and blameless in his sight. … I am warning you ahead of time
… Be on guard so that you will not be carried away by the errors …” (2 Peter 3:6-17, NLT)

John gives the condition for the Lord to forgive believers’ present sins:
“But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins
and to cleanse us from all wickedness (unrighteousness).” (1 John 1:9, NLT)
“This is an extremely important verse … all men need to be repeatedly purified from all
unrighteousness – from all their sins … We must confess our sins and turn from them
… We must also confess them with our actions … (John) is talking here about repentance
… we must hate our sins and turn from them. This is true repentance.”
(The Applied New Testament Commentary; Dr. Thomas Hale)

2 verses later, John reminds believers to ask Jesus to plead our case before the Father:
“My dear children, I am writing this to you so that you will not sin.
But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate who pleads our case before
the Father. He is Jesus Christ, the one who is truly righteous.” (1 John 2:1, NLT)

Believers are responsible for repenting of their sins after they are born-again!
They have been given the Holy Spirit, a totally new nature, and God’s word.
So, they have been enabled to be victorious overcomers over sin, the world,
and the devil. They have no excuse for failing to do this.

This is not correct. You gave the true answer in your own words and in the scriptures that you quoted, but then you contradict both:

You said, "At the moment you were born-again" and then follow with scripture that says "You have not repented."

One who has not repented - is not born again. That is a contradiction in terms. But now you have come up with your own agenda and are preaching against the word of God.

That is exactly what I did (quoted from the OP). Now see it in RED.

As I said, that is a contradiction in terms - you are contradicting the scriptures.

 

[Zachary]

That is exactly what I did (quoted from the OP). Now see it in RED.
As I said, that is a contradiction in terms - you are contradicting the scriptures.

Paul was just telling them that they were still carrying on with their old (former) sins.
Sure they repented of them initially when they first received the Holy Spirit,
but they went back to them again ... and need to repent of them AGAIN.
This is exceedingly prevalent in today's churches ...
which will cause many to miss heaven unless they repent AGAIN
and get their lives turned around before they die.
Most of this is the pastors' fault in the churches ...
because they are not being the shepherds they were called to be.

 

[ScottA]

Paul was just telling them that they were still carrying on with their old (former) sins.
Sure they repented of them initially when they first received the Holy Spirit,
but they went back to them again ... and need to repent of them AGAIN.
This is exceedingly prevalent in today's churches ...
which will cause many to miss heaven unless they repent AGAIN
and get their lives turned around before they die.
Most of this is the pastors' fault in the churches ...
because they are not being the shepherds they were called to be.

No, you are making the mistake of not defining repentance properly. Repentance means "to change." But to go back to former sins is evidence that there was no actual change.

That is not change - not repentance.

So, of course it would appear that a person can go back and forth between sin and righteousness, or to be born again, and again, and again. But that is not possible, not according to scripture. If we do actually change (in repentance) then we have died, and "it is no longer we who live, but Christ who lives in us." As it is written, we do this "in Christ", whom "died once" (only once).

What you have purposed is not biblical...which should be good news.

 

[Zachary]

No, you are making the mistake of not defining repentance properly. Repentance means "to change." But to go back to former sins is evidence that there was no actual change.

That is not change - not repentance.

So, of course it would appear that a person can go back and forth between sin and righteousness, or to be born again, and again, and again. But that is not possible, not according to scripture. If we do actually change (in repentance) then we have died, and "it is no longer we who live, but Christ who lives in us." As it is written, we do this "in Christ", whom "died once" (only once).

What you have purposed is not biblical...which should be good news.

A person can believe and sincerely repent and receive the Holy Spirit.
His life will eventually change ... bearing the fruit of salvation.
Then, lo and behold, because of His free will, he can go back to some of his old sins.
Result: falling away, falling from grace, drawing back unto perdition, etc.
Then later, he can repent again.
I won't be discussing this topic with you any more.
God bless!

 

[Nancy]

go with that if you like, but you will not find any "will you please forgive me" there--where you might note the publican did not ask anything, see, even though it is implied in English that is not the tense in the Greek; he is "saying," not "asking"--nor anywhere else in the Book.

Another perspective here is that this is such a ubiquitous assumption, but you can't even Quote it twice?
kinda thing.

Bottom line, afaic, (can you figure that one out Mark? Lol) is that we "agree" with God that we ARE sinners, in need of Him. I am more in the habit now of thanking Him for His sacrifice for my sins, and that I am a forgiven person. I see my repentance the same as agreeing with God that I am a sinner and through repentance, my sorrow is expressed. Sin just does not fit a Christian.

 

[Helen]

Bottom line, afaic, (can you figure that one out Mark? Lol) is that we "agree" with God that we ARE sinners, in need of Him. I am more in the habit now of thanking Him for His sacrifice for my sins, and that I am a forgiven person. I see my repentance the same as agreeing with God that I am a sinner and through repentance, my sorrow is expressed. Sin just does not fit a Christian.

Amen Nancy...well said. :) And I so agree!!
I used to have a little saying- " If we are conscious of Him we wont be conscious of sin." It works for me. :)

 

[ScottA]

A person can believe and sincerely repent and receive the Holy Spirit.
His life will eventually change ... bearing the fruit of salvation.
Then, lo and behold, because of His free will, he can go back to some of his old sins.
Result: falling away, falling from grace, drawing back unto perdition, etc.
Then later, he can repent again.
I won't be discussing this topic with you any more.
God bless!

Of course you won't be discussing it with me any more...duh!

You are preaching the teachings of men and not of God, not able to reconcile one scripture to another, but just picking out the ones that tickle your ears.

 

[Jun2u]

At the moment you were born-again …
you were only forgiven of the sins you had committed up to that point in time!

If only the past sins were forgiven when anyone became born again it means that individual can’t go to heaven because the wages of sin (singular) is death! And, because that individual cannot pay for that one sin unless Jesus has become his Savior. What kind of a salvation is that?

The kind of salvation you teach is alien to the Bible! What happens to those grown people who have a mind of a two, three, or four-year-olds who do not know right from wrong and not know what repentance is, are they then lost? According to your gospel, they are. But the truth is God is the Savior NOT man!!!

In fact, when someone becomes saved ALL of his sins past, present, and future have been redeemed and paid for by Christ. Anyone who has become born from above ALL of his sins are forgiven him and has eternal life at the moment of conversion. There is not a sin that he can commit which will threaten him with hell (1 John 3:9).

My friend you are teaching heresy!

To God Be The Glory

 

[Nancy]

Amen Nancy...well said. :) And I so agree!!
I used to have a little saying- " If we are conscious of Him we wont be conscious of sin." It works for me. :)

Did you get the acronym afaic? :)