Books Outside the Bible

[Rollo Tamasi]

I assure you, I have done decades of that too.

You are an exception.
Most catholics I've met all my life know very little of the Bible.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

You are an exception.
Most catholics I've met all my life know very little of the Bible.

I'm not Catholic, and have serious disagreements with Catholic theology.
Though I have met many Catholics who were very knowledgable about the Bible and diligent studiers of it. I've also met many Catholics who didn't study at all. It's about the same combination I see in every other religious group I've studied.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I'm not Catholic, and have serious disagreements with Catholic theology.
Though I have met many Catholics who were very knowledgable about the Bible and diligent studiers of it. I've also met many Catholics who didn't study at all. It's about the same combination I see in every other religious group I've studied.

Except that catholics are in the billions, my church has about 150 or so.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I know more about being catholic than you and Mary Mog put together.
I put up with catholics everyday of my life through my family and my wife's family and the fact that I grew up in the catholic church.
Also I own an up to date catechism and I study it when need be.
Don't call me ignorant.
You are ignorant in calling me that!!!

Rollo - I've had dozens of discussions with you and the ONE word that fits you every time is "IGNORANT".
You know absolutely NOTHING about what the Catholic Church teaches. I don't care if you own a hundred Catechisms - you don't know it because you've never READ it.

Do your HOMEWORK . . .

 

[Helen]

Bloviated ?
Are you trying to improve my knowledge of English?
Never heard of it!

All I did was answer Breadman's statement in that post.
Are you trying to say all catholics read and abide by the Catechism?
Are you that naive?

Hi there
Long time no see. Missed you.

Me neither, I had to google bloviated ...I'd never heard the word in my life... I'll have to try and work it into a conversation with my husband ...it means something like verbose and long winded....
Dave does tend to be a bit like that...usually just when I am tired and want to go to bed. ...he makes tea and then tells me his latest bible study...
But I bet when I get an opportunity I will forget the word!!

 

[BreadOfLife]

Great! So you and Martin Luther agree it's by faith alone

As long as YOU properly define "Faith"as Belief + Obedience (Works), then the answer is YES.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Except that catholics are in the billions, my church has about 150 or so.

I was talking about proportional numbers, not absolute.
Every religious group I've studied have a certain proportion of people who are very diligent readers/studiers/practicers of their faith, a certain proportion that are complete slackers in that regard, and a whole spectrum in between.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Catholic teach grace allows the works that save.

The bible teaches works are the fruit of salvation.

Works earn rewards, not salvation.

Catholics play word games but cannot escape works are required for salvation.

The Catholic Church Teaches Salvation by Works

You want to go deeper? Come to CTZ.

The Bible teaches that Faith = Belief + Works/Obedience.
You cannot have true faith without BOTH . . .

 

[farouk]

Hi there
Long time no see. Missed you.

Me neither, I had to google bloviated ...I'd never heard the word in my life... I'll have to try and work it into a conversation with my husband ...it means something like verbose and long winded....
Dave does tend to be a bit like that...usually just when I am tired and want to go to bed. ...he makes tea and then tells me his latest bible study...
But I bet when I get an opportunity I will forget the word!!

Hi; bloviating is a word used by President Warren Harding when he was a newspaper publisher... :) Apparently it was his skill at it that set him on his course for high office...

 

[farouk]

The Bible teaches that Faith = Belief + Works/Obedience.
You cannot have true faith without BOTH . . .

There's a big difference between Ephesians 2.9 and Ephesians 2.10. Both are true; but they are distinct.

 

[BreadOfLife]

There's a big difference between Ephesians 2.9 and Ephesians 2.10. Both are true; but they are distinct.

That's why Catholics read ALL of Scripture in CONTEXT oand not just parts of it.

James 2:14-26 defines faith as belief AND works.
That's why Luther called it the "Epistle of Straw" because it didn't fit his warped view of faith.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Hi; bloviating is a word used by President Warren Harding when he was a newspaper publisher... :) Apparently it was his skill at it that set him on his course for high office...

Bill O'Reilly uses it all the time . . .

 

[farouk]

That's why Catholics read ALL of Scripture in CONTEXT oand not just parts of it.

James 2:14-26 defines faith as belief AND works.
That's why Luther called it the "Epistle of Straw" because it didn't fit his warped view of faith.

To be accurate, Luther subsequently accepted its canonicity.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Rollo - I've had dozens of discussions with you and the ONE word that fits you every time is "IGNORANT".
You know absolutely NOTHING about what the Catholic Church teaches. I don't care if you own a hundred Catechisms - you don't know it because you've never READ it.

Do your HOMEWORK . . .

Breadman!
Bad Breadman!
I think you are bad to the bone.
But Jesus still loves you
Jesus will still receive you unto eternal life if you will just change your ways.
You must realize that bad-mouthing every anti-catholic is not what will get you to heaven.
That's called good works, if you consider what you do on this forum a good work.
HAH!
You believe in exactly what you say you don't believe in.
HAH!
Yeah, bad to the bone.....

 

[BreadOfLife]

To be accurate, Luther subsequently accepted its canonicity.

Thanks to the arguments of his contemplraries like Philip Melanchton - who also stopped him from deleting Hebrews, Jude and Revelation as well.
Otherwise YOUR Bible would be a LOT thinner . . .

 

[farouk]

Thanks to the arguments of his contemplraries like Philip Melanchton - who also stopped him from deleting Hebrews, Jude and Revelation as well.
Otherwise YOUR Bible would be a LOT thinner . . .

Umm...last time I checked, men such as Zwingli and Calvin had little to do with Luther, but they acknowledged the Bible's canon for what it is, and didn't depend on Luther's views, at whatever stage his views were at.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Umm...last time I checked, men such as Zwingli and Calvin had little to do with Luther, but they acknowledged the Bible's canon for what it is, and didn't depend on Luther's views, at whatever stage his views were at.

The canonicity of the NT was up fro grabs during the Protestant Revolt in the 16th century.

Luther wanted to remove James, Hebrews, Jude and Revelation while Calvin wasn't crazy about Revelation but decided to keep it. He never wrote a commentary for it as he did the other Books.

Luther simply got the ball rolling - yet he later lamented the division he created:
"There are almost as many sects and beliefs as there are heads; this one will not admit baptism; that one rejects the Sacrament of the altar; another places another world between the present one and the day of judgment; some teach that Jesus Christ is not God. There is not an individual, however clownish he may be, who does not claim to be inspired by the Holy Ghost, and who does not put forth as prophecies his ravings and dreams." - Martin Luther, Christians at Antwerp, 1525

 

[BreadOfLife]

Breadman!
Bad Breadman!
I think you are bad to the bone.
But Jesus still loves you
Jesus will still receive you unto eternal life if you will just change your ways.
You must realize that bad-mouthing every anti-catholic is not what will get you to heaven.
That's called good works, if you consider what you do on this forum a good work.
HAH!
You believe in exactly what you say you don't believe in.
HAH!
Yeah, bad to the bone.....

I don't "badmouth" you as an anti-Catholic. I simply expose you.
YOU do all the work - I just show you where you're wrong . . .

 

[farouk]

The canonicity of the NT was up fro grabs during the Protestant Revolt in the 16th century.

Luther wanted to remove James, Hebrews, Jude and Revelation while Calvin wasn't crazy about Revelation but decided to keep it. He never wrote a commentary for it as he did the other Books.

Luther simply got the ball rolling - yet he later lamented the division he created:
"There are almost as many sects and beliefs as there are heads; this one will not admit baptism; that one rejects the Sacrament of the altar; another places another world between the present one and the day of judgment; some teach that Jesus Christ is not God. There is not an individual, however clownish he may be, who does not claim to be inspired by the Holy Ghost, and who does not put forth as prophecies his ravings and dreams." - Martin Luther, Christians at Antwerp, 1525

The books of the Bible - such as for example the New Testament ones authored by Apostles - did not become canonical only in the 16th century.

 

[BreadOfLife]

The books of the Bible - such as for example the New Testament ones authored by Apostles - did not become canonical only in the 16th century.

Correct.
They were declared canonical by the Catholic Church in the 4th century.

- The Synod of Rome (382) is where the canon was first formally identified.
- It was confirmed at the Synod of Hippo eleven years later (393).
- At the Council (or Synod) of Carthage (397), it was yet again confirmed. The bishops wrote at the end of their document, "But let Church beyond sea (Rome) be consulted about confirming this canon". There were 44 bishops, including St. Augustine who signed the document.
- 7 years later, in 405, in a letter from Pope Innocent I to Exsuperius, Bishop of Toulouse, he reiterated the canon.
- 14 years after that, at the 2nd Council (Synod) of Carthage (419) the canon was again formally confirmed.

The Canon of Scripture was officially closed at the Council of Trent in the 16th century because of the perversions happening within Protestantism and the random editing and deleting of books from the Canon.