CAN WE FALL AWAY ?

[GodsGrace]

But, dear sister, that is not what is happening in the Mass. It is one thing to remember His Son's sacrifice, it is another to use that Son's sacrifice made present in order to receive to pay for sins committed since the last Mass as if they are back under the old system of offering but doing it with the Son's blood through the Mass.

I was not instructed that the offering is for sins from the last Mass.
Sometimes Mass is twice a day, every day for sure.
I could check up on this, but it sounds very wrong...

 

[GodsGrace]

They are sacrificing Jesus at every mass.
You can't believe something for 2000 years and then change it overnight without telling anyone.

 

[Nancy]

Dear sister,

Catholics and even former ones, do not see the Mass as sacrificing Him again and again. They see the Mass as a means to make that one time sacrifice for sins "present" in order to be received again and again and again, but in an unbloody manner. To some of us, Protestants, it comes off as sacrificing Him again and again and again, but it is more like the Mass is a rupture in the space time continuum by which the one time sacrifice for sins is being made present at each Mass to receive again and again and again... which in God's eyes in according to Hebrews 10th chapter is still equally offensive when it is being used for paying for sins committed since the last Mass.

Salvation in increments?

 

[Nancy]

So, how do you like Rollo in yellow? I don't think it is his color :)

 

[GodsGrace]

Bad for the body is not a sin.

For some it could be a sin.
It's not for any of us to speak to the conscience of another.

 

[Triumph1300]

Bad for the body is not a sin.

The body is your temple.
Not suppose to pollute it.

Christians are to refrain from doing harmful things to our bodies, and Christians are to glorify God in our bodies because our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit who dwells within us.

 

[GodsGrace]

They are sacrificing Jesus at every mass.
You can't believe something for 2000 years and then change it overnight without telling anyone.

this should be a thread...

 

[GodsGrace]

So, how do you like Rollo in yellow? I don't think it is his color :)

I think he looks cute in hats.

 

[GodsGrace]

The body is your temple.
Not suppose to pollute it.

Christians are to refrain from doing harmful things to our bodies, and Christians are to glorify God in our bodies because our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit who dwells within us.

Yes.
And he doesn't even smoke!
But he does love to make trouble!

 

[APAK]

I read it right the first time Apak.
Maybe YOU force scripture to get YOUR desired outcome.
Jesus and Paul are both speaking about losing salvation...they wouldn't spend so much time talking about losing crowns or rewards. Our INHERITANCE is HEAVEN..not a reward.

Here's what you said:

The ‘salt’ like the ‘light’ are true believers reaching out to the heathen non-believing world. If a believer is to be effective in converting folks, they cannot mix the truth with false ideas of the spirit of this world or from their own mind. If they do, they compromise teaching the gospel of truth; it becomes lies. The salt or the true gospel is compromised and is no good for saving anyone. The heathen will not believe it, will not treasure it and take it to their heart. They will discard it from their minds as cheap or tarsh news of no importance to their lives.

So what did I misunderstand?? You're saying the salt is believers trying to convert the world and that they're not effective if they mix truth with false ideas.
IF they do THEY COMPROMISE TEACHING THE GOSPEL and it becomes lies.
THE SALT, OR THE TRUE GOSPEL is compromised........

YOU'RE saying the salt is the true gospel.
NO. The salt is US. WE are the salt.

Mathew 5:13 JESUS SAYS:
13“You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt has become tasteless, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled under foot by men."

WE are the salt.
If WE become tasteless WE are no longer good for anything except to be THROWN OUT and TRAMPLED UNDER FOOT BY MEN.

I'll also tell you this....I happen to have taught the book of Mathew twice to adults. There's much more to this verse than one might think. It actually refers back to salt covenants made in the O.T. I won't get into it since it's a waste of breath....

But my exegesis is correct.
If you don't believe it is, please explain Mathew 5:13 by not embellishing and adding your own ideas.

Sometimes the wax can by in YOUR ear.

Ok you at least knew I said salt = the believer. Why would I change it later. YOU CHANGED THE DEFINITION FOR ME because your mind does not understand my English or sentence structure. So please stop it please.


I believe you are getting hung on the expression when I say, "The salt or the true gospel is compromised and is no good for saving anyone." It means the the believer (salt) produces a spoiled or impure result - the gospel. Both are spoiled.

So just for you because you are looking to argue out of ignorance agian, I will given you an elementary form of this expression as two sentences.

The salt or the believer is compromised and is no good for anyone. The true gospel is thus compromised and is no good for anyone.

Do you see the intimate connection? The true gospel is dependent on the believer and he/she needs to be effective and thus very salty if you will.

Again, for the last time: The salt = the believer I never changed my mind.

Bless you,

APAK

 

[H. Richard]

Those who never believed in Jesus Christ were already condemned as John 3:18 testifies. Rejecting the antidote to the poison of sin will not change the outcome.

There is condemnation to a saved believer if they walk after the flesh. God is not mocked. Whatever a man sows, so shall he reaps. Corruption is coming unless they repent.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit....6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.....

Romans 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. 15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. 8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Do note heresies as a work of the flesh which those saved believers participating in the Mass for are in need to repent of from doing the Mass again.

2 Peter 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. 20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

So there is a consequence but it is not loss of salvation, but loss of the first inheritance of being received as a vessel unto honor in His House to attend the Marriage Supper in Heaven and have a place; a mansion in the city of God. That means unless a believer departs from iniquity, he or she runs the risk of being left behind at the pre great trib rapture event to be received later on as a vessel unto dishonor in His House but still in His House.

1 Corinthians 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. 25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

So if a saved believers that walks after the flesh in reaping corruption and does not depart from iniquity by the time the Bridegroom comes....

Now there is hope for carnal believers caught in bondage... especially when they fear the Lord and wants to be free from that bondage to sin.

1 John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.....8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

2 Timothy 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

That also includes the carnal believer leaning on Jesus for help to put away all provisions for the flesh and cast down every wicked thought and even to help him think on good things.

Romans 13:13 Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying. 14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

2 Corinthians 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;) 5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; 6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

Philippians 4:6 Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God. 7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus. 8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. 9 Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.

We can only live this reconciled relationship with God THROUGH Jesus Christ for why the just shall live by faith because that faith is in Him to do it.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:........1 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

Hebrews 12:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

***
Define what you think is walking after the flesh. I am sure it will be sins of the flesh and you would be correct in doing so. But walking in the spirit is not walking without sins of the flesh. It IS walking in faith, believing God when He said Jesus paid, atoned, for all the sins of the world. A person must understand that faith is spiritual, it has no physical component. Therefore walking in the spirit is walking in faith that Jesus has paid for your sins and it also requires a person to not have any confidence in the flesh being able to not sin.

Jesus paid for all, all, all, sins of the flesh. Past, present, and future. But you must, must, must believe it or you are rejecting it. If a person does not believe their sins are paid for on the cross then they are not saved, period.

Most religious people are so blind that they can not see the difference of walking in the spirit or in faith. That is the reason the forums are full of those that say a person has to stop sinning in order to be saved. But I can assure them that walking in the flesh is walking in a religion's doctrines that say they are walking in the spirit when all they see and talk about is sins of the flesh that have a physical component.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

I was not instructed that the offering is for sins from the last Mass.
Sometimes Mass is twice a day, every day for sure.
I could check up on this, but it sounds very wrong...

From a Catholic site.

https://www.catholiceducation.org/en/marriage-and-family/parenting/8-reasons-to-go-to-mass.html

"
What we do at Mass.

The Mass is first of all a sacrifice — the perfect sacrifice, created by Jesus. Through the priest we offer Jesus, Body and Blood, to the Father, just as Jesus offered Himself to the Father on the Cross. In an unbloody way, we repeat — make present — Christ's death and Resurrection. Through this memorial of Jesus, we offer God our praise, sorrow for our sins, and deepest thanks.

The Mass is also a meal. At the Consecration, the bread and wine, through the power of the Holy Spirit, become the Body and Blood of Christ. Not a mere symbol, but Jesus's real flesh and real blood, under the appearance of bread and wine. When we receive Holy Communion, we receive Jesus Himself. He is real food for our soul. He said this very plainly: I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. My flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him. (John 6:55-56).

What are the benefits of Holy Communion? It strengthens our union with Jesus; He lives within us in a special way. It cleanses us from venial sins. (Mortal sins require forgiveness in Confession.) It gives us grace to avoid sin in the future. It increases our love of God and neighbor.

 

[GodsGrace]

Ok you at least knew I said salt = the believer. Why would I change it later. YOU CHANGED THE DEFINITION FOR ME because your mind does not understand my English or sentence structure. So please stop it please.


I believe you are getting hung on the expression when I say, "The salt or the true gospel is compromised and is no good for saving anyone." It means the the believer (salt) produces a spoiled or impure result - the gospel. Both are spoiled.

So just for you because you are looking to argue out of ignorance agian, I will given you an elementary form of this expression as two sentences.

The salt or the believer is compromised and is no good for anyone. The true gospel is thus compromised and is no good for anyone.

Do you see the intimate connection? The true gospel is dependent on the believer and he/she needs to be effective and thus very salty if you will.

Again, for the last time: The salt = the believer I never changed my mind.

Bless you,

APAK

The gospel has NOTHING to do with Mathew 5:13
It's speaking ONLY about believers.

The believer does not need to be effective because it's not speaking to this.
It's speaking about how A BELIEVER becomes unsalty and is of no use.

What does being salty mean?
Just quick:

2 Chronicles 13:5
A Salt Covenant

Salt was added to sacrifices as a sign of purification of the sacrifice.
It meant that the covenant was permanent...salt makes things endure, last a long time. If two made an agreement and ate salt, it made the agreement permanent.
No more salt Covenants...Jesus is our covenant. He fulfills this type of agreement.

Salt preserves the word of God in us.
It preserves in us what Jesus would like to pass on to us and what He would like of us.

It preserves our devotion to God.
Salt heals...it heals us and we, in turn, could "heal" the world. We can be a "cure".
2 Kings 2:19-22

If we lose our saltiness, we lose all of the above which the salt gave to us.
We become disloyal to God and are of no use to Him.
(how does God use an unsalty person? It's like being lukewarm).

Sorry if I don't understand your mind...it's not like we have to get married.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

Salvation in increments?

The catechism says by its meaning in the words that by participating in the Mass, the work of redemption is being carried out, so I reckon salvation in increments may be applicable to what they are doing.

 

[Helen]

Yes, you are right Helen...I actually have been a tad convicted that I hid him....
BTW-do you think yellow is Rollos color? Ahahaha!!! (his new Avatar) he kills me no end. Lol!! ♥

Yes, his avatar gave me such a laugh...I needed that. :)

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

The body is your temple.
Not suppose to pollute it.

Christians are to refrain from doing harmful things to our bodies, and Christians are to glorify God in our bodies because our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit who dwells within us.

So stop going outside and breathing in all those fumes from the cars and trucks.
That's all 2nd hand smoke, that's worse of a sin.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

***
Define what you think is walking after the flesh. I am sure it will be sins of the flesh and you would be correct in doing so. But walking in the spirit is not walking without sins of the flesh. It IS walking in faith, believing God when He said Jesus paid, atoned, for all the sins of the world. A person must understand that faith is spiritual, it has no physical component. Therefore walking in the spirit is walking in faith that Jesus has paid for your sins and it also requires a person to not have any confidence in the flesh being able to not sin.

Jesus paid for all, all, all, sins of the flesh. Past, present, and future. But you must, must, must believe it or you are rejecting it. If a person does not believe their sins are paid for on the cross then they are not saved, period.

It is paid for in the sense you can never lose your salvation nor the seal of adoption; the Holy Spirit, but by not running that race in laying aside every weight & sin by looking to the author & finisher of our faith to help you do this, His words does cite consequences for not departing from iniquity.

Most religious people are so blind that they can not see the difference of walking in the spirit or in faith. That is the reason the forums are full of those that say a person has to stop sinning in order to be saved. But I can assure them that walking in the flesh is walking in a religion's doctrines that say they are walking in the spirit when all they see and talk about is sins of the flesh that have a physical component.

Most saved believers fail to see the race as living by faith in Him as our Good Shepherd that He will help us to lay aside every weight & sin in following Him as His disciples.

Nothing you have said can deter His judgment that is coming on "saved" believers for not looking to Him for help in departing from iniquity. Since we have been saved, we have been reconciled to God through Jesus Christ; now let us live that reconciled relationship with God through Jesus Christ, with His help.

 

[Enoch111]

Yes, his avatar gave me such a laugh...I needed that. :)

When a man puts a woman as his avatar, then there is clearly an identity issue.:cool:

 

[H. Richard]

Well then, HR, one of us is wrong, totally wrong, and I know for sure it's not me because only reformed churches and hyper grace churches believe in OSAS. Eternal security is NOT accepted by mainline Christianity. It's not accepted because it's not true. Only Mr. John Calvin believed this and spread this wrong soteriology around.

Any new Christians reading along will make up their own mind. All it takes is ONE reading of the New Testament with no preconceived ideas.

John 14:21 JESUS SAID
21“He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him.”

What commandments do you suppose JESUS is talking about?

Jesus was talking to the Jews who were under the commandments of the Law of Moses. Jesus gave Paul the only commandment that saves in this age under His grace {we are not under the law of Moses}. We are to place our belief, faith, trust, confidence in HIS< HIS< HIS, work on the cross where HE, HE, HE< paid for our sins of the flesh == ALL OF THEM.

Oh. This is interesting.
What does worshipping God in spirit mean?

A person placing their faith in HIM and His work on the cross. What does it mean to you, keeping the law of Moses. If it does you must be Jewish.

What does rejoicing in Christ mean?

I rejoice in the fact that God saw my need to be freed from this body of sin so He gave Paul a new gospel that He had hidden until He gave it to Paul. This new message of grace has saved me in spite of my sinful condition.

I am curious as to what you find joyful in your idea that you have to keep yourself save by your work trying not to sin.

What does not having confidence in our flesh mean?

It means I do not find any confidence that I can stop sinning in the flesh, period.

Could it, maybe, mean that we are to heed the words of Jesus and the commandments of Jesus?

This is funny. The scriptures tell us that we are sinful but obviously you think you can be sinless since you keep commandments.

And, you DO think about works a lot.

This shows you are not listening to what I write. My only claim is the work of Jesus on the cross and yes I know and admit that I am sinful in this flesh but obviously you think you are sinless because you keep commandment that no man { except Jesus} has ever been able to keep.

Guilty conscience?

No more than the tax collector.
Luke 18:9-14
9 Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
10 "Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself,'God, I thank You that I am not like other men — extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector.
12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.'
13 And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me a sinner!'
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."
NKJV

Thinking about what is in this reply which one are you? The tax collector or the Pharisee??

 

[Helen]

When a man puts a woman as his avatar, then there is clearly an identity issue.:cool:

He keeps saying that he can't see anyones avatar on the site any more.
So maybe he can't see the one he just changed it to anyway, and thinks that we can't either!!!