Do you not believe Satan exists?

[face2face]

Absolutely.

Let's start here...
You added the name Jesus to this verse. You changed it's meaning by doing that. Let's look at that passage in context.
Hebrews 5
1 For every high priest taken from among men is appointed for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins.
2 He can have compassion on those who are ignorant and going astray, since he himself is also subject to weakness.
3 Because of this he is required as for the people, so also for himself, to offer sacrifices for sins.
First we notice there is no mention of Jesus. The high priest in this passage was chosen from among men. That's not how Jesus became the high priest. He wasn't voted in by men. He was given to us by God.
Next we notice the high priest is required to offer sacrifices for sins. Where is it stated that Jesus made these sacrifices?
The high priest is subject to weakness because he is just like those around him. He does not have the Spirit residing inside him as Jesus did.

Verse 2 is making reference to your typical high priest, not Jesus.


Thoughts?

o

I introduced Jesus’ name to show that Jesus fulfilled the requirements of the High Priest perfectly (in every way). This is the intent of the writer who is making a comparison between the Aaronic Order and the Priesthood which is after the order of Melchizedek.

The purpose of the first part of this chapter (verses. 1-10) is to corroborate the position arrived at in the conclusion of Hebrew 4… that we have in Christ a true High Priest sufficient for all our needs.

This is done by analysing the conception of a high priest, and observing that Christ in all respects fulfils it.

We ask, how was Jesus “tempted in all points” as you Job? (Note: No mention of a supernatural Satan in all of Hebrews – concerning I know, but context is king!)

Well, for that to happen (and to uphold God’s righteousness) Jesus was made in every way like you & I.

Jesus was born of a woman. Galatians 4:4 – death (a corrupting nature, condemnation etc) no longer has hold over Jesus - Romans 6:9

So it’s about nature isn’t it?

We ask, how is Jesus suitable to be our High Priest?

Well…

EVERY High Priest is taken from among men, none more so than the very Son of Man! Hebrews 5:1; Hebrews 2:6

That’s the whole point of the writers thoughts…

Jesus was taken from among men – meaning he came out of man, not as you suggest being merely chosen by men, because Aaron was also chosen and appointed by God.

Now Hebrews 5:1 is based on Chapter 4

4:15 For we do not have a high priest (Jesus) incapable of sympathizing with our weaknesses, but one who has been tempted in every way just as we are, yet without sin.

So how was Jesus subject to weakness? In what way did Jesus satisfy this idea of weakness? AND how is Jesus able to sympathise with those with this weakness?

We learn from the writer that Jesus was subject to weakness and while tempted in every way, he never faulted, and no guile or sin was found in his mouth, but weakness was in Jesus – WHAT weakness?

The Apostle Paul picks up on this point in 2 Corinthians 13:4 bringing Jesus, His Sacrifice and us all together in one view.

For to be sure, he was crucified in weakness, yet he lives by God's power. Likewise, we are weak in him, yet by God's power we will live with him in our dealing with you.

So what are the Apostles teaching us?

The high priest’s office being to mediate between man and God, Jesus should be of the same nature, and sympathetic with those in whose behalf he mediates; and that his credentials are split between the Son of Man & Son of God, i.e. that God himself has given him life and appointed him to spiritually represent mankind before Him in every way.

 

[face2face]

1 Chronicles 21
1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

<snip>

7 And God was displeased with this thing; therefore he smote Israel.



Why would God provoke David to number Israel and then turn around and be angry with David for numbering Israel? If what you say is true, then God caused David to sin.

Nowhere in that verse does it even hint that Satan is God or one of His angels.

I have to disagree with your interpretation.

Do you have anymore examples?

o

I posted the translators notes for that reason.

You rightly mentioned 2 Sam 24:1 and while I do have an understanding on this section of Scripture, it is sufficient enough for now to state the word Satan is used in reference to God or His angels.

 

[Job]

I introduced Jesus’ name to show that Jesus fulfilled the requirements of the High Priest perfectly (in every way). This is the intent of the writer who is making a comparison between the Aaronic Order and the Priesthood which is after the order of Melchizedek.

The purpose of the first part of this chapter (verses. 1-10) is to corroborate the position arrived at in the conclusion of Hebrew 4… that we have in Christ a true High Priest sufficient for all our needs.

This is done by analysing the conception of a high priest, and observing that Christ in all respects fulfils it.

We ask, how was Jesus “tempted in all points” as you Job? (Note: No mention of a supernatural Satan in all of Hebrews – concerning I know, but context is king!)

Well, for that to happen (and to uphold God’s righteousness) Jesus was made in every way like you & I.

Jesus was born of a woman. Galatians 4:4 – death (a corrupting nature, condemnation etc) no longer has hold over Jesus - Romans 6:9

So it’s about nature isn’t it?

We ask, how is Jesus suitable to be our High Priest?

Well…

EVERY High Priest is taken from among men, none more so than the very Son of Man! Hebrews 5:1; Hebrews 2:6

That’s the whole point of the writers thoughts…

Jesus was taken from among men – meaning he was came out of man not as you suggest he was chosen by men because Aaron was also chosen and appointed by God.

Now Hebrews 5:1 is based on Chapter 4

4:15 For we do not have a high priest (Jesus) incapable of sympathizing with our weaknesses, but one who has been tempted in every way just as we are, yet without sin.

So how was Jesus subject to weakness? In what way did Jesus satisfy this idea of weakness? AND how is Jesus able to sympathise with those with this weakness?

We learn from the writer that Jesus was subject to weakness and while tempted in every way, he never faulted, and no guile or sin was found in his mouth, but weakness was in Jesus – WHAT weakness?

The Apostle Paul picks up on this point in 2 Corinthians 13:4 bringing Jesus, His Sacrifice and us all together in one view.

For to be sure, he was crucified in weakness, yet he lives by God's power. Likewise, we are weak in him, yet by God's power we will live with him in our dealing with you.

So what are the Apostles teaching us?

The high priest’s office being to mediate between man and God, Jesus should be of the same nature, and sympathetic with those in whose behalf he mediates; and that his credentials are split between the Son of Man & Son of God, i.e. that God himself has given him life and appointed him to spiritually represent mankind before Him in every way.

Can you show me from the scriptures where Jesus offered sacrifices for His own sins?

3 Because of this he is required as for the people, so also for himself, to offer sacrifices for sins.

o

 

[Job]

I posted the translators notes for that reason.

You rightly mentioned 2 Sam 24:1 and while I do have an understanding on this section of Scripture, it is sufficient enough for now to state the word Satan is used in reference to God or His angels.

If that's what you believe, then I won't try and change your mind.

Even though...

o

 

[face2face]

Okay lets go back to Numbers.

Num 22:22 Then God’s anger was kindled because he went, and the angel of the Lord stood in the road to oppose (tn) him.

tn The word is שָׂטָן (satan, “to be an adversary, to oppose”).

God here is the Satan.

 

[face2face]

If that's what you believe, then I won't try and change your mind.

Even though...

o

Its what's written.

 

[face2face]

Can you show me from the scriptures where Jesus offered sacrifices for His own sins?

3 Because of this he is required as for the people, so also for himself, to offer sacrifices for sins.

o

Excellent question!

How was Jesus made sin for us?

2 Corinthians 5:21

And how manys times did he do this?

Hebrews 10:12

 

[Job]

Excellent question!

How was Jesus made sin for us?

2 Corinthians 5:21

And how manys times did he do this?

Hebrews 10:12

You need to answer the question I asked.

Show me where Jesus offered sacrifices for His sins.

 

[Job]

Its what's written.

Not really. If you change the wording of the verse then it is not what's written.

o

 

[Job]

Okay lets go back to Numbers.

Num 22:22 Then God’s anger was kindled because he went, and the angel of the Lord stood in the road to oppose (tn) him.

tn The word is שָׂטָן (satan, “to be an adversary, to oppose”).

God here is the Satan.

How can God be Satan when it's the angel of the Lord that's blocking the path?

You do realize the Lord is God...........right?

o

 

[face2face]

You need to answer the question I asked.

Show me where Jesus offered sacrifices for His sins.

You haven't been told he was sinless?

Hebrews 10:12 He offered one sacrifice for sins (in himself) once AND for all.

How was Jesus made sin for us?

You are dodging the question...how did Jesus relate to sin?

 

[face2face]

How can God be Satan when it's the angel of the Lord that's blocking the path?

You do realize the Lord is God...........right?

o

Progress? You are saying the Angel of the Lord here is a Satan (adversary?).

 

[face2face]

Not really. If you change the wording of the verse then it is not what's written.

o

If the word Satan is used whether translated Satan or Adversary, it still has the same meaning.
You understand that right?

 

[Job]

You haven't been told he was sinless?

Hebrews 10:12 He offered one sacrifice for sins (in himself) once AND for all.

How was Jesus made sin for us?

You are dodging the question...how did Jesus relate to sin?

If the word Satan is used whether translated Satan or Adversary, it still has the same meaning.
You understand that right?

Progress? You are saying the Angel of the Lord here is a Satan (adversary?).

I suggest a course on reading comprehension.

You have a nice day Mr. Face.

o

 

[face2face]

We didn't get to Mr. Job and his adversary ;)

 

[bbyrd009]

If there are Christians that believe Satan isn't a literal entity, then I guess they believe Jesus was being tempted by an imaginary being.

When you succumb to temptation, did the devil make you do it? lol

the concept of scapegoat should be considered here, but imo that doesn't make satan any less real; just prolly more personified.
We like to give things a face i guess

 

[mjrhealth]

Satan exists. he is real enough, first time I saw Him He was persuing someone, dressed in those roman garments with teh sandals with the wrap arounds big lion at His side, next two times I was standing with teh Lord, and he appeared from behind a bush in a nice valley, all dressed up in a business suit, told him to leave and he did, than i saw him once in dressed as an old women trying to scratch out the eyes of a man who was sitting next to a building with his head under his arms weeping, again told him to leave and he did. All these done in the spirit, and you think im lying when i tell you that you are missing out on some of the best things in Jesus. He has so much to show us just so few bother to listen.

And i have seeing his works in my life, using the bible against me so I was fighting God till I figured out what he was doing, his works are all over this forum, he loves teh religious and teh learned, pride is an easy thing to manipulate in men.

Oh he is a really good looking man, no wonder he dupes so many.

 

[Angelina]

The orthodox Jews believe that Satan was a human and an adversary of Job but I believe that he was and is a fallen angelic being....JM2C

 

[Dcopymope]

The orthodox Jews believe that Satan was a human and an adversary of Job but I believe that he was and is a fallen angelic being....JM2C

Is this belief amongst the Jews a recent one, or is this something they have pretty much always believed?

 

[Angelina]

An interesting read ~ The Book of Job, part 6: Satan | Alexander Goldberg