Can We Honor Jesus Christ Through His Mother Mary? a debate

[BreadOfLife]

I could show all kinds of things your catholic cult has kept secret from you. Or maybe you do know and are accepting of these catholic traditions. Would you like me to post some of that evidence?i

Anytime, sparky.
However, when I prove you wrong, like I did with this statue nonsense - will you admit it?

What were the names of those 2 cherubim? And were these cherubim made for the specific purpose of relaying messages to God? ie. praying for individuals. If Moses were using those cherubim the way catholics use their images, then yes, Moses was an idolater.i

Catholics don't use statues to relay images.
Why would you make such asinine claim? Idolatry is forbidden in the Catholic Church and always HAS been.

Why would God command Moses to make the Cherubim in the first place??

How about God having that serpent destroyed because it had become an object of worship.
2 Kings 18
4 He removed the high places and broke the sacred pillars, cut down the wooden image and broke in pieces the bronze serpent that Moses had made; for until those days the children of Israel burned incense to it, and called it Nehushtan.i

Why would God command Moses to make the serpent in the first place - instead of just healing the people Himself??

Nothing in scripture allows for the use of images in worship. I can show you verse after verse condemning these images. You can't show me one that makes allowances for them. Your catholic traditions do not trump the scriptures.

I already showed you TWO places in Scripture where graven images were not only allowed by God - but COMMANDED by God that they be constructed. The people bowed and prayed before the Ark with graven images of golden angels on it.

Was this "Idol worship"??

Old enough to know how to spell or at least smart enough to use spellcheck.

But not old enough to understand a simple explanation or to do your homework without being told . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

You should really research the underbelly of your church. I know for a fact you know very little about your churches history and practices. If you did, you wouldn't call yourself a catholic.

After reading your inane responses - it's glaringly apparent that you don't know ANYTHING for a "fact".
You certainly don't know what the Catholic Church teaches - and you have absolutely NO idea what I know or don't know about Catholic doctrine.

But - anytime you wanna challenge me - be my guest . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Show us where He commanded these images be used in worship.

1 Chron. 16:4 shows David appointing "Levites to minister before the ark of the LORD, to extol, thank, and praise the LORD, the God of Israel."

Here, the Ark is being used in WORSHIP.

Joshua 7:6
Then Joshua tore his clothes and fell facedown to the ground before the ark of the LORD, remaining there till evening. The elders of Israel did the same, and sprinkled dust on their heads.

Here, the Ark with the golden Cherubim is AGAIN being used in WORSHIP.

You LOSE because you are ignorant of the Word of God, sparky . . .

 

[Job]

Do you really think that those people think that the "chunk of rock or piece of canvas" can hear them?

Yes I do. How can they expect an image of Mary to pray for them if they didn't think the image could hear?
Do you see what I'm saying?

God had Moses build a Bronze Serpent for the people. He later had that serpent destroyed because the people started burning incense to it.

 

[Marymog]

Yes I do. How can they expect an image of Mary to pray for them if they didn't think the image could hear?
Do you see what I'm saying?

God had Moses build a Bronze Serpent for the people. He later had that serpent destroyed because the people started burning incense to it.

Job,

If you REALLY think that then I am more concerned about you than them.

They made THE graven image their God. They stopped worshiping God. That's why he destroyed it. People who look at statues and pictures of May are not making the statue or picture their God. But I have a feeling you already know this and you are just being obstinate.

What about the Ark of the Covenant?

Mary

 

[Job]

You LOSE because you are ignorant

I've grown weary of your childish name calling and belligerent attitude. I find, as I suppose you do to, that any interaction between us is pointless.

You have a nice day.

 

[Job]

What about the Ark of the Covenant?

What about it?

 

[Marymog]

What about it?

Never mind. It was answered in post #283.

I am on the verge of ending communications with you. You don't seem to want to DISCUSS a topic. To me you seem to want to only ask questions and never legitimately or honestly answer questions. And when you do answer the answer is generally not based on facts or logic.

If you REALLY didn't know about the story of The Ark of The Covenant and how it pertains to worship then you should start reading/researching scripture.

Mary

 

[Job]

I am on the verge of ending communications with you. You don't seem to want to DISCUSS a topic.

The topic is: Can We Honor Jesus Christ Through His Mother Mary?

I've been discussing that for 15 pages. Now you want to discuss the Ark of the Covenant. The presence of the Ark doesn't legitimize the idolatry that's taking place in the church today. And it's not just the catholic church...it's everywhere. This just happens to be a catholic thread.

the story of The Ark of The Covenant and how it pertains to worship then you should start reading/researching scripture.

Maybe you should clue me in? Show me how it pertains to worship today.
j

 

[BreadOfLife]

I've grown weary of your childish name calling and belligerent attitude. I find, as I suppose you do to, that any interaction between us is pointless.
You have a nice day.

No - you've grown weary of being exposed for spewing falsehoods.
If you don't like being exposed - then clean up your act . . .

 

[Job]

For your viewing pleasure and discovery.

 

[epostle1]

You should really research the underbelly of your church. I know for a fact you know very little about your churches history and practices. If you did, you wouldn't call yourself a catholic.

I'm quite aware of the hateful lies and false histories from bigoted anti-Catholics that cannot withstand scholarly scrutiny. The gates of hell assailed, but did not prevail. Did Jesus lie when He made that promise?

 

[epostle1]

For your viewing pleasure and discovery.

More hate propaganda and misinformation from the Christian Taliban.

 

[epostle1]

Show us where He commanded these images be used in worship.

Do we have to over the same scriptures 50 times? We don't need images. They may be used in processions but not in worship. That's a straw man fallacy. "Worship" in Catholic terminology, means celebrating the Eucharist that you deny anyway. Statues are helpful devotional aids and nothing more. THEY ARE NOT ITEMS OF WORSHIP. Scripture shows the proper use of images as well as the improper use and you can't tell the difference.

 

[Marymog]

The topic is: Can We Honor Jesus Christ Through His Mother Mary?

I've been discussing that for 15 pages. Now you want to discuss the Ark of the Covenant. The presence of the Ark doesn't legitimize the idolatry that's taking place in the church today. And it's not just the catholic church...it's everywhere. This just happens to be a catholic thread.

Maybe you should clue me in? Show me how it pertains to worship today.
j

I agree with you, that is the topic of this thread. That topic has morphed not only by your doing but by others also. You asked in post #214 "How do you get a piece of marble to pray?" You asked that question on your 2nd posting in this debate. You went OFF topic real fast ;).That question my friend is not on topic so please don't pretend you are staying on topic.

And lets be accurate here also. You didn't join the discussion until page 11 where you linked a youtube video that wasn't even honest or accurate. You haven't been discussing this for 15 pages.

BreadOfLife already tried to "clue you in". I can't add anything to what he has already said.

Mary

 

[epostle1]

Yes I do. How can they expect an image of Mary to pray for them if they didn't think the image could hear?
Do you see what I'm saying?

I see you are brainwashed into believing LIES. We are not dumb as to think images can pray or hear so your comment is INSULTING. You like to irritate Catholics with STUPID remarks such as this one. It doesn't matter how many times it's explained, a devotional aid is not an item of worship. Your Bible is a devotional aid. Do you worship your Bible? Maybe you are trying to justify your bleak, boring whitewashed church that has no art whatsoever?

God had Moses build a Bronze Serpent for the people. He later had that serpent destroyed because the people started burning incense to it.

That's true. It went from proper use to improper use,
AND YOU CAN'T TELL THE DIFFERENCE.

 

[epostle1]

For your viewing pleasure and discovery.

This is long overdue:

Job has been admitted to the ICU (Ignore Care Unit)

 

[Job]

BreadOfLife already tried to "clue you in". I can't add anything to what he has already said.

That's good to hear.

You have a nice day...

 

[Job]

We don't need images. They may be used in processions but not in worship.

Below is a statement you made in the thread "question about crosses".

That’s exactly what we Catholics do: we worship Christ: through images at times.

Notice anything?
.

 

[Job]

That's true. It went from proper use to improper use,
AND YOU CAN'T TELL THE DIFFERENCE.

You guys obviously can't tell the difference either because you keep using it's construction as a defense for your own images.

b. How about when he made a bronze serpent and placed it on a pole so that the sick would be healed?? Was that "weak"??

One had to look at the bronze statue of the serpent to be healed, which shows that statues could be used ritually, not merely as religious decorations.

This defense can be found in virtually every catholic thread. This and the Ark of the Covenant. They use these 2 events to justify their statues of Jesus and Mary.
n