Catholics: What does it mean to pray to Mary?

[Rockerduck]

From what you say there is no possibility that you are a Theologian. Whatever college education you have must be influenced by a denomination.

A Theologian knows that there are errors in all denominations. And most denominations know the process of Salvation. Hate filled religious beliefs are backed by Hell fire….cool down.

The Catholic Church has one advantage over Protestants, their church has lived with Christianity and all it advances since the 4th century. Fourteen centuries after the biblical era Protestants tried to piece their beliefs together and pretty much gutted Christian history.

Martin Luther was more or less the founder of Protestantism and the Lutheran church are based on his teachings….from there the Protestant church fractured into thousands of denominations and in many ways abandon his teaching. Martin Luther did not hate the Catholic Church he wanted to reform it. That is why he nailed his 95 theses on the door of the castle church in Wittenberg, Germany on October 31, 1517.

Other than that the Catholic Church has a horrible history of cruelty and corruption. The Modern Catholic Church is much better and has made formal apologies for their past. And it is a fundamental belief in Christianity to forgive. We hate and do not forgive....don't count on Christ forgiving us.

Now I am not Catholic but I do worship with them and do attend cathedral presentations of the Stations of the Cross during Easter.

True Theologions are not any on denomination even though they may have their favorites….mine are Holy Ghost churches.

The Catholic Church call Miriam the Mother of God….not exactly true she is the mother of a God. Such is with theology the truth hinges on precise wording. Like I said more than 20,000 visitation helping the ill and children appearing in the middle of wars and blood shed to help people. This continues today.

I'm born again from above by the Grace of God through Jesus Christ. There is only the body of Christ, as Jesus said, the Bride of Christ. That's it. No denomination. Once you receive the Holy Spirit you belong to Jesus Christ who bought you with the price of His sacrifice on the Cross. The Catholic Church is in darkness and there is no light in it. If you have the Holy Spirit in you, your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 4:4-6 -
There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

1 Corinthians 6:19-20 - Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? 20 For you were bought at a price; therefore, glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s.

 

[Grailhunter]

I'm born again from above by the Grace of God through Jesus Christ.

You think you are the only Christian born by the Grace of God through Jesus Christ?
But this is how the Protestant church fractured into thousands of denominations....uneducated people forming beliefs and denominations.

Some guy in a Lazyboy coming up with an idea.
Millions and millions of people coming up with their own versions of Christianity.

 

[quietthinker]

Catholics: What does it mean to pray to Mary?​

hoping to find a partner that'll have you?

 

[Rockerduck]

You think you are the only Christian born by the Grace of God through Jesus Christ?
But this is how the Protestant church fractured into thousands of denominations....uneducated people forming beliefs and denominations.

Some guy in a Lazyboy coming up with an idea.
Millions and millions of people coming up with their own versions of Christianity.

Only one version of Christianity that doesn't involve a church building. The Crucifixion, Resurrection, and Glorification of Jesus Christ and the salvation He gives to His chosen in Him. The eternal life that is forever and ever in Heaven with Him. The road is narrow, my friend, and there be few who find it.

 

[Grailhunter]

Only one version of Christianity that doesn't involve a church building. The Crucifixion, Resurrection, and Glorification of Jesus Christ and the salvation He gives to His chosen in Him. The eternal life that is forever and ever in Heaven with Him. The road is narrow, my friend, and there be few who find it.

Can you find a scriture that says not to assemble and worship the Lord with other Christians?

 

[Rockerduck]

Can you find a scriture that says not to assemble and worship the Lord with other Christians?

That is the writer of Hebrews opinion, to not forsake the fellowship on the sabbath, and He did not mean Sunday either. Not everybody is a social butterfly. Jesus did say when two or 3 are gathered, I'll be there. But missionaries in 1800's who, by themselves went into Africa or the missionaries, who by themselves went to tribes. Everyone God calls cannot have the fellowship Paul ascribed to and surprise, Paul didn't either, Paul preferred to travel by Himself or have just one companion to travel with.

 

[Grailhunter]

That is the writer of Hebrews opinion, to not forsake the fellowship on the sabbath, and He did not mean Sunday either. Not everybody is a social butterfly. Jesus did say when two or 3 are gathered, I'll be there. But missionaries in 1800's who, by themselves went into Africa or the missionaries, who by themselves went to tribes. Everyone God calls cannot have the fellowship Paul ascribed to and surprise, Paul didn't either, Paul preferred to travel by Himself or have just one companion to travel with.

Do you think the Lord’s day was established during the biblical period? Do you think that Gentile-Christians were allowed in the Temple? Again find a scripture not to assemble and worship the Lord. And I will add assemble and give to the church.

100 scriptures about attending church and giving to the church
What Does the Bible Say About Giving To The Church?

 

[Rockerduck]

Do you think the Lord’s day was established during the biblical period? Do you think that Gentile-Christians were allowed in the Temple? Again find a scripture not to assemble and worship the Lord. And I will add assemble and give to the church.

100 scriptures about attending church and giving to the church
What Does the Bible Say About Giving To The Church?

A Jewish writer of Hebrews writing to Jewish Christians in the 1st century was talking about meeting on the sabbath in the synagogues. Plain and simple. Every church will take that Hebrews 10:25 and apply it to Christianity today, I have no problem with that. Yet the spirit of the letter to Hebrews was Jewish Christians. The Apostle Paul did refer to collections on the 1st day of the week. Its the gentile Christians who began meeting on Sundays. By the 2nd century the Jewish converts came to an end and Sunday worship stayed.

 

[Grailhunter]

A Jewish writer of Hebrews writing to Jewish Christians in the 1st century was talking about meeting on the sabbath in the synagogues. Plain and simple. Every church will take that Hebrews 10:25 and apply it to Christianity today, I have no problem with that. Yet the spirit of the letter to Hebrews was Jewish Christians. The Apostle Paul did refer to collections on the 1st day of the week. Its the gentile Christians who began meeting on Sundays. By the 2nd century the Jewish converts came to an end and Sunday worship stayed.

Already gave you the link to 100 scriptures about attending church and giving to the church
What Does the Bible Say About Giving To The Church?

Although I think that that the Apostle Paul wrote Hebrews, there is no conscience among scolars as to who wrote Hebrews. Also keep in mind that the title Hebrews did not accompany the actual text and nowhere in this text does the words Hebrew or Jew appear.

So was it written to the Jewish-Christians or Gentile-Christians? I think both.

 

[PS95]

Already gave you the link to 100 scriptures about attending church and giving to the church
What Does the Bible Say About Giving To The Church?

Although I think that that the Apostle Paul wrote Hebrews, there is no conscience among scolars as to who wrote Hebrews. Also keep in mind that the title Hebrews did not accompany the actual text and nowhere in this text does the words Hebrew or Jew appear.

So was it written to the Jewish-Christians or Gentile-Christians? I think both.

It was clearly written to wavering Jewish Christians if you go by it's content. There is no reason to think that Paul could not have written to Jews, although we aren't certain about who wrote Hebrews. You do realize you are diverting the topic of the thread?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I grew up Catholic, and while I have no issue with Catholicism, I enjoyed my schooling in a catholic school but we was not taught about the bible unfortunately.

Well, I guess you have at least one issue with it then, right? That it doesn't teach about the Bible in its schools. That's really amazing that a school that is supposed to be based on the Bible doesn't even teach about the Bible. Wow.

I loved the lovely rituals in church and all the grand symbolism and of course great monks chanting

What does it mean to pray to Mary? How does it work?

I pray to God the Father for Wisdom and understanding and don't quite understand Mother Mary's role in Prayer.
Can you let us in on it;

The thing that you need to know about that is that it isn't taught in the Bible. So, why do that? We should pray to God, not to anyone else.

 

[Grailhunter]

It was clearly written to wavering Jewish Christians if you go by it's content. There is no reason to think that Paul could not have written to Jews, although we aren't certain about who wrote Hebrews. You do realize you are diverting the topic of the thread?

Then stop talking about Hebrews

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Here is what the "cult of Mary" teaches.

Question:

Why we should pray to mother Mary ? ?????

Answer:​

Because Jesus has given us his Blessed Mother as our great spiritual mother..a heavenly advocate who intercedes for us.

Some Christians will ask, “Why pray to Mary when we can go directly to Jesus?” And if the prayer of a righteous man on earth avails much with God (Jas. 5:16–18), how much more would prayers from one who has finished the race and now reigns with Christ in Heaven ?

We should not be surprised that Scripture presents these holy men and women of heaven bringing our prayers to Jesus...the Lamb and that from the early Church onward Christians have asked the intercession of the saints who have gone before them to heaven.

Mary is the Mother of God and the disciple par excellence . We should not be surprised that she is our Preeminent intercessor among the angels and saints.

Mary is not the Mother of God. That is blasphemous. God has no mother. She was the mother of Jesus the man. Jesus is both God and man and Mary was only the mother of His human side, not His deity side.

 

[Grailhunter]

Mary is not the Mother of God. That is blasphemous. God has no mother. She was the mother of Jesus the man. Jesus is both God and man and Mary was only the mother of His human side, not His deity side.

Can you paint of picture of that? It would be interesting. Giving birth to a human baby with out the God baby.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


Some views, mainly Amil take the following to be meaning in heaven while in a disembodied state at the time---but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. Which then begs the question, how does that even make sense unless the ones in a disembodied state can communicate with saints still alive on the earth, and those still alive on the earth can communicate with those in heaven in disembodied state via praying to them? And since it obviously doesn't make sense, therefore, Amil couldn't possibly be the correct position. Not to mention, no Amil that I'm aware of prays to any dead saints in heaven, meaning Amils that are not Catholic. Yet at the same time, aren't all Catholics basically Amils, and don't Catholics pray to passed on saints?


No matter how you look at it then, the fact some Amils don't pray to any departed saints in heaven, while other Amils do, ones that are Catholic in this case---that neither of these scenarios make a lick of sense pertaining to this---but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years--if that is meaning while in heaven in a disembodied state. And if it is meaning that, what is the point of them being priests while in a disembodied state if there is no way to for those in heaven to communicate with those back on earth, and vice verse?

Are you being serious here? It seems that you are digging deeper and deeper all the time to try to find arguments to refute Amil. You've dug all the way to the bottom for this one. Why does someone's soul in heaven need to communicate with anyone on earth in order to be a priest of God and of Christ? That makes no sense at all.

Though, I for sure don't agree with Catholics, at least their view is trying to make some sense out of being priests in a disembodied state. While all these other Amils have these in heaven as priests in a disembodied state, and they being priests while in that state serving no purpose whatsoever. They are just priests while in a disembodied state, except these Amils can't explain why. At least Catholics can. But even so, I still reject the idea of Catholics praying to departed souls in heaven.

Do you agree that we are priests of God and of Christ right now, as taught in 1 Peter 2:9 and Revelation 1:5-6? If so, why would that no longer be the case when we die and our souls go to heaven?

Being a priest of God and of Christ is a reflection of our standing in Christ. Are we priests of God and of Christ only while we are actively serving Him and then stop being priests when we're not doing that? Or are we still considered to be priests of God and of Christ even while we are not actively serving Him? I don't know what the souls of the dead in Christ do exactly in heaven, but the idea that they would have to be communicating with people on earth in order to be priests is just not true.

Not only are we priests of Christ right now, but we are also soldiers of Christ (2 Timothy 2:3-4). Would you say that when we die we are no longer soldiers of Christ? No longer in His army of believers? If not, then why does Revelation 19 portray the souls of the dead in Christ and the angels who come with Him from heaven as His armies?

We are also servants of Christ. When we die and our souls go to heaven, do you think we are no longer His servants?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Can you paint of picture of that? It would be interesting. Giving birth to a human baby with out the God baby.

What are you talking about? Jesus was God before Mary gave birth to Him (see John 1), so how could Mary be the Mother of God? No, she was only the mother of His humanity, not His deity.

 

[Grailhunter]

What are you talking about? Jesus was God before Mary gave birth to Him (see John 1), so how could Mary be the Mother of God? No, she was only the mother of His humanity, not His deity.

I understand the concept of the belief of the pre-existent Christ. But is it that simple?

For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

If you can find a scripture where one God is talking to another God in the Old Testament I will be a believer…..Yahweh talking to Yeshua. Or can we find a lot of scriptures in the Old Testament where Yahweh says He is the only God and there is no other.

And if Miriam did not give birth to a God, were is the scripture where Yeshua became a God?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I understand the concept of the belief of the pre-existent Christ. But is it that simple?

Yes, it is that simple. You don't believe that Jesus is God? He can't be God unless He always existed and He created the heavens and the earth because those things are true about God.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. 15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.

For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

If you can find a scripture where one God is talking to another God in the Old Testament I will be a believer…..Yahweh talking to Yeshua. Or can we find a lot of scriptures in the Old Testament where Yahweh says He is the only God and there is no other.

What is your religion? You don't accept the New Testament? Anyway, here you go...

Genesis 1:1 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Genesis 3:22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Psalm 110:1 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

And if Miriam did not give birth to a God, were is the scripture where Yeshua became a God?

He didn't become a God, He is God and always has been God. He is God the Son. God is one God in three persons (Father, Son, Holy Spirit). See John 1 above.

 

[Grailhunter]

Yes, it is that simple. You don't believe that Jesus is God?

I believe Yeshua is a God.

He can't be God unless He always existed and He created the heavens and the earth because those things are true about God.

I disagree.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God.

I am not disagreeing with scripture....just that it is not that simple.

What is your religion? You don't accept the New Testament? Anyway, here you go...

Again take a flying leap
Yeshua is not named in the Old Testament...Yahweh specifically says He is the only God several times.

He didn't become a God, He is God and always has been God. He is God the Son. God is one God in three persons (Father, Son, Holy Spirit). See John 1 above.

No. the word Trinity is not in the Bible and Yahweh and Yeshua are identified as 2
Gods in the Gospels. Over a hundred scriptures prove the one God formula as false.

 

[PS95]

I understand the concept of the belief of the pre-existent Christ. But is it that simple?

For me, yes.

For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
If you can find a scripture where one God is talking to another God in the Old Testament I will be a believer…..Yahweh talking to Yeshua. Or can we find a lot of scriptures in the Old Testament where Yahweh says He is the only God and there is no other.

Then YHWH rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from YHWH out of heaven; Gen 19:24

YHWH on the earth was Yeshua. He was the Word who became flesh. This destruction was brought upon them by YHWH the Son of God, who had appeared to Abraham in an human form, who warned him, and He heard pleas for those cities, and then left from him to Sodom. The fire and brimstone was rained by him from YHWH his Father, out of heaven; and so the Targums of Jonathan and Jerusalem both call him, the Word of the Lord. If you read it all carefully you will see that the other two men are described as angels while this one was not.
The Son, who had conversed with Abraham, from the Father & for the Father who has committed all judgment to the Son. He our Savior but will also be the destroyer of those who reject His salvation.

Yeshua means YHWH is salvation, as you probably know. The New Covenant name needed is Yeshua- and no longer YHWH- because
* God IS our salvation-and that salvation is only found in His Son. * Ps 68:19, 79:9, 25:5, 27:9, 89:26, 62:6

There is no other name we need but His- Acts 4:10-12

, 10let it be known to all of you and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead—by this name this man stands here before you in good health. 11He is the STONE WHICH WAS REJECTED by you, THE BUILDERS, but WHICH BECAME THE CHIEF CORNERSTONE. 12And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among mankind by which we must be saved.”

Phil 2:9-11
Therefore God exalted Him to the highest place and gave Him the name above all names, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

And if Miriam did not give birth to a God, were is the scripture where Yeshua became a God?

There isn't one because Yeshua did not become a god.
Mary gave birth to Jesus who was both her son & God's son.
He had the nature of his mother- human, and the nature of His Father- God.

It's not possible to have the fullness of diety in Him and be called a god.

Col 1:19
For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,

Col 2:9
For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, 20and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.

2 Cor 5:19
namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their wrongdoings against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

I am worried about your school because it appears that you came out of it defending the RCC's Mary teachings, but awful confusion about God and His Son. That's odd. Where did you go?
You seem to have a God and a god like the JWs. What a nightmare they are. I was raised as one.
Just believe the verses I have given you. There are many many more!! Been there done that!