What becomes of our faith if the Genesis account is NOT literal?

[St. SteVen]

Reminds me of where Paul said he knows whom he trusted with all things. I couldn’t find that verse...

One of these perhaps?

Matthew 11:27 NIV
“All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father,
and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.

Luke 10:22 NIV
“All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows who the Son is except the Father,
and no one knows who the Father is except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.”

[

 

[face2face]

I like what some atheists conclude.
Living your life as if there might be a God works better than living your life as if there isn't a God, (just in case?) - LOL

Recently in a public presentation on "Why I am not an Atheist" this concept was introduced as one possible motivation for believing in a God.

The life of Albert Camus is a case in point. I beleive he struggled with not seeing the evidence for a God and the presense of evil, as reasons he was an atheist.

I believe its his quote you have referenced:

I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die to find out there isn't, than live as if there isn't and to die to find out that there is.
Albert Camus

It's a luke warm spirit one I'm certain Christ would spew out. The jealously of God demands full conviction based on the evidence for His existence in the things He has revealed.

Hedging one's bets it likened to having a foot in both camps.

How many Sunday churches goers have held the same motive?

F2F

 

[VictoryinJesus]

One of these perhaps?

Matthew 11:27 NIV
“All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father,
and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.

Luke 10:22 NIV
“All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows who the Son is except the Father,
and no one knows who the Father is except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.”

[

I’m having trouble with my bible apps. I had to delete the one I used mostly and download others. I’m having trouble with the ads now. I can’t copy or search like I use to so I had to search on Google. This is the one I was thinking of: 2 Timothy 1:12 - Patience in Persecution

 

[St. SteVen]

I’m having trouble with my bible apps. I had to delete the one I used mostly and download others. I’m having trouble with the ads now. I can’t copy or search like I use to so I had to search on Google. This is the one I was thinking of: 2 Timothy 1:12 - Patience in Persecution

That is also a hymn which you might remember. Note the Refrain.



[

 

[amadeus]

“…but we know in whom we believe…or we do not.” Reminds me of where Paul said he knows whom he trusted with all things. I couldn’t find that verse but found this one while looking for it…where they mocked Jesus. ’He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God.’ Matthew 27:43.

Encouraging.

Amen! See also this:

Da 3:17	If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king.
Da 3:18	But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.

 

[Jack]

This point causes me a massive amount of cognitive dissonance. (something most won't admit)

The gospel and the New Testament narrative unravel when these things aren't literal.

- The geologies are meaningless. (or in serious error)
- Who wrote the Books of Moses? (and when)
- If Adam wasn't a literal human then he didn't literally sin.
- If Adam didn't literally sin, then there is no original sin.
- If there is no original sin then being born in Adam's race does not make you a sinner.
- If we are not redeemed from original sin by Christ's payment of the death penalty...
- Then the Atonement was of none effect.
- If the Atonement was of none effect, we are lost in our sin and awaiting judgment of our works.
- We all fall short of the perceived standard (the glory of God) and stand condemned.
- Faith in Christ can't help us, the Atonement is null and void. (as outlined above)
- Where does that leave us?

Alternatively:
- There is anecdotal evidence (and in some cases historical evidence) that faith in Christ can help us.
- And that a renewed relationship with the creator is possible. (assuming we were alienated prior)

But how can this be when church doctrine is a house of cards?
- Is a relationship with the creator of figment of our imagination? (wishful thinking?)
- Might we conjure up our own salvation to quell the fear of the unknown?

It's enough to drive one mad. (as my British friends might say)

I like what some atheists conclude.
Living your life as if there might be a God works better than living your life as if there isn't a God, (just in case?) - LOL

]

Jesus said it's literal! Your problem is with Him!

 

[St. SteVen]

Jesus said it's literal! Your problem is with Him!

Can you literally boil a frog by turning up the heat slowly?

[

 

[Jack]

Can you literally boil a frog by turning up the heat slowly?

[

No but Jesus can and will burn gays FOREVER in Hell Fire! He said so!

 

[St. SteVen]

No but Jesus can and will burn gays FOREVER in Hell Fire! He said so!

True for those who hate gays.

Galatians 5:19-21 NIV
The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery;
20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions
21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before,
that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

[

 

[quietthinker]

This point causes me a massive amount of cognitive dissonance. (something most won't admit)

The gospel and the New Testament narrative unravel when these things aren't literal.

- The geologies are meaningless. (or in serious error)
- Who wrote the Books of Moses? (and when)
- If Adam wasn't a literal human then he didn't literally sin.
- If Adam didn't literally sin, then there is no original sin.
- If there is no original sin then being born in Adam's race does not make you a sinner.
- If we are not redeemed from original sin by Christ's payment of the death penalty...
- Then the Atonement was of none effect.
- If the Atonement was of none effect, we are lost in our sin and awaiting judgment of our works.
- We all fall short of the perceived standard (the glory of God) and stand condemned.
- Faith in Christ can't help us, the Atonement is null and void. (as outlined above)
- Where does that leave us?

Alternatively:
- There is anecdotal evidence (and in some cases historical evidence) that faith in Christ can help us.
- And that a renewed relationship with the creator is possible. (assuming we were alienated prior)

But how can this be when church doctrine is a house of cards?
- Is a relationship with the creator of figment of our imagination? (wishful thinking?)
- Might we conjure up our own salvation to quell the fear of the unknown?

It's enough to drive one mad. (as my British friends might say)

I like what some atheists conclude.
Living your life as if there might be a God works better than living your life as if there isn't a God, (just in case?) - LOL

]

We look for proof here and there. We mostly cobble information to suit predetermined conclusions while claiming objectivity.
Cognitive activity is useful particularly if it is anchored in truth but what if it is not?
God's Spirit cuts through intellect (which is often if not mostly 'disabled' to a greater or lesser degree) and communicates directly with the heart (emotions) He is the light which lightens every man coming into the world (John 1:9)

Impaired cognition, faulty information and understanding is only a small part of the equation. It is what we do with the Spirit's prompting which matters. Do we listen and hear it? Do we recognise the glory given us in Jesus and trust it?

The cognitive will sort itself out if the heart is in the right place. It may take even a lifetime because of our stubbornness but oh how his Spirit desires to teach us rapidly. We do not need to wander the desert for 'forty years'.

 

[Jack]

True for those who hate gays.

Those who defend gays HATE gays. So then, why do you defend gays?

 

[St. SteVen]

God's Spirit cuts through intellect (which is often if not mostly 'disabled' to a greater or lesser degree) and communicates directly with the heart (emotions) He is the light which lightens every man coming into the world (John 1:9)

Great post, thanks.
This bit reminded me that most human decisions are made based on an emotional reaction anyway.
Typically some crumb of logic is used to justify a largely emotional decision on our part.

Our memories are a collection of positive and negative events that form biases and emotional inclinations.

[

 

[St. SteVen]

What becomes of our faith if the Genesis account is NOT literal?​

The gospel and the New Testament narrative unravel when these things aren't literal.

- The geologies are meaningless. (or in serious error)
- Who wrote the Books of Moses? (and when)
- If Adam wasn't a literal human then he didn't literally sin.
- If Adam didn't literally sin, then there is no original sin.
- If there is no original sin then being born in Adam's race does not make you a sinner.
- If we are not redeemed from original sin by Christ's payment of the death penalty...
- Then the Atonement was of none effect.
- If the Atonement was of none effect, we are lost in our sin and awaiting judgment of our works.
- We all fall short of the perceived standard (the glory of God) and stand condemned.
- Faith in Christ can't help us, the Atonement is null and void. (as outlined above)
- Where does that leave us?

[

 

[quietthinker]

What becomes of our faith if the Genesis account is NOT literal?​

The gospel and the New Testament narrative unravel when these things aren't literal.

- The geologies are meaningless. (or in serious error)
- Who wrote the Books of Moses? (and when)
- If Adam wasn't a literal human then he didn't literally sin.
- If Adam didn't literally sin, then there is no original sin.
- If there is no original sin then being born in Adam's race does not make you a sinner.
- If we are not redeemed from original sin by Christ's payment of the death penalty...
- Then the Atonement was of none effect.
- If the Atonement was of none effect, we are lost in our sin and awaiting judgment of our works.
- We all fall short of the perceived standard (the glory of God) and stand condemned.
- Faith in Christ can't help us, the Atonement is null and void. (as outlined above)
- Where does that leave us?

[

Down the flush!

 

[St. SteVen]

Down the flush!

Agree.
Seems that way.

Yet the literal Genesis view requires putting on blinders to the truth.
I can't live with that either.

Somehow, the end product works. The best assurance.

[

 

[quietthinker]

Agree.
Seems that way.

Yet the literal Genesis view requires putting on blinders to the truth.
I can't live with that either.

Somehow, the end product works. The best assurance.

[

what blinders do you see Steven?

 

[St. SteVen]

what blinders do you see Steven?

The church gave us the literal view of Genesis.
Yet, science, archeology and history bring serious questions.
It doesn't add up.

[

 

[quietthinker]

The church gave us the literal view of Genesis.
Yet, science, archeology and history bring serious questions.
It doesn't add up.

[

It appears they are serious questions for you. Would you like to articulate?

 

[St. SteVen]

It appears they are serious questions for you. Would you like to articulate?

The atheists do a better job of explaining than I would.
But in general, there are questions about whether Moses existed.
Questions about who actually wrote the Books of Moses.
Questions about the Exodus. Questions about Canaan and the conquest.
Questions about the origins of humankind.
Questions about the Genesis account of the global flood.
On and on it goes.

There is at least one valid question in all of that.

[

 

[PGS11]

Why does Jesus make the sacrifice of atonement for original sin?Why did Jesus come?Its all there in Genesis remove it or lessen it and the entire faith falls apart.Jesus would not have to come because if it never happened there is no original sin there for no reason for Jesus to come and make the sacrifice.Please explain Christianity without the fall of humanity and Jesus sacrifice of atonement I would love to hear it.

You will have to find another reason for Jesus to come and make the sacrifice and you won't be able to find one.

That Jesus did make the sacrifice of atonement proves Genesis is true or he made it for nothing.

You have to see the big picture and ask the questions.What happened to cause all of this? Why did God the Father have to send Jesus to make the sacrifice?What did Jesus accomplish in the sacrifice he made?What was the victory over?These are all very important questions to understand.You have to understand the sacrifice to have proper faith.We do find our salvation in having faith in Jesus death and resurrection.Why do we have faith in his death and resurrection?The answers are all there.

Its also telling you humans are created beings not a produce of evolution if you don't believe in Genesis you believe man is a product of evolution you have no other path or explanation.

Also who was the third player who had a hand in all of this causing the fall of humanity - Satan.Why did he do it?The answers are there.