The Holy People and the Treaty

[Spiritual Israelite]

The text of Daniel 9:27 does not say "agreement", but "covenant".

Right. He is blatantly changing the text to fit his doctrine.

What covenant established the animal sacrifices that will be stopped in the middle of the 7 years ?

The new covenant.

Hebrews 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. 5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: 6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. 7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. 8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; 9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

 

[Keraz]

You have just insisted that the blood of Christ and the salvation of Christ has not come yet in order that you can impose a future fulfillment of Satan's short time, and then you tell me I will need to answer to God for disagreeing with you

WE ALL must answer to God. For some. it won't be so bad, for teachers and promotors of false doctrines, like preterism =- not so good. James 3:1

Satan knew that his time was short the moment the events described in Revelation 12:3-12 occurred

All of Revelation from Rev 6:11 to the end is unfulfilled. Rev 12 did not happen in the 1st Century.

Satan knew that his time was short the moment the events described in Revelation 12:3-12 occurred. He never knew, and still does not know how long his short time is. Only God does.

Revelation 13:7 tells us exactly how long Satan will have.

 

[Keraz]

The text of Daniel 9:27 does not say "agreement", but "covenant".

Those who mistakenly stick to the KJV Bible, are seriously disadvantaged. Why discount modern scholarship? And the much wider range of source documents available now?
A clearly worded translation says: The prince will make a firm league with the many for one of the seventy........

It is not and cannot be a Covenant with God.

What covenant established the animal sacrifices that will be stopped in the middle of the 7 years ?

The new Covenant, which the Lord will make with His faithful peoples, as they live in all of the Holy Land. Ezekiel 40 to 46, Jeremiah 31:31-34

 

[Keraz]

Right. He is blatantly changing the text to fit his doctrine.

A nasty and vindictive comment.

The new covenant.

Isn't it rather obvious that the new Covenant is yet to be made? Jesus has fulfilled His side of it, but we humans will pledge our side, after we are all settled into our heritage and established our own government. Hosea 1:11, Hosea 2:18-23

4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

This is correct; Jesus did that for us, but we will again make sacrifices for atonement of errors and thanksgiving. Isaiah 56:1-8

Your shouting and trumpet blowing, [written not verbal] on subjects we have done over many times before, just serves to dig the hole of false beliefs even further.
I know it isn't impossible for a deceived person to overcome wrong beliefs. Difficult, but possible. Try it; your very life may depend on it!

 

[Douggg]

A clearly worded translation says: The prince will make a firm league with the many for one of the seventy........

What translation version ?

Keraz, as Daniel was praying in Daniel 9, what covenant was Daniel confessing his people Israel had broken ?

 

[Keraz]

What translation version ?

Keraz, as Daniel was praying in Daniel 9, what covenant was Daniel confessing his people Israel had broken ?

There is no mention of any Covenant in Daniel 9.
Daniels Prayer; in Daniel 9:1-19, only says how the people of Judah have sinned and disobeyed Gods Commandments. Something they still continue to do, to the soon to happen; virtual demise of Jewry. Isaiah 22:14

Please come to your senses and realize that the Dan 9:27 agreement is not a Covenant with God.
It will be a treaty for peaceful relations between the leader of the OWG and a majority of the Christian peoples. That 7 years will set the countdown for the glorious Return.

 

[TribulationSigns]

There is no mention of any Covenant in Daniel 9.
Daniels Prayer; in Daniel 9:1-19, only says how the people of Judah have sinned and disobeyed Gods Commandments. Something they still continue to do, to the virtual demise of Jewry. Isaiah 22:14

Please come to your senses and realize that the Dan 9:27 agreement is not a Covenant with God.
It will be a treaty for peaceful relations between the leader of the OWG and a majority of the Christian peoples. That 7 years will set the countdown for the glorious Return.

Your interpreation is deeply flawed!

Dan 9:24-27
(24) Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
(25) Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
(26) And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
(27) And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The seventy weeks are determined between God and His people, not an agreement or peace treaty between evil man and national Israel or the Middle Eastern Jewish people. This covenant involves God and His entire congregation of Israel, which includes all saints from both the Old and New Testaments. We are all Daniel's people in Christ, that Messiah the Prince, who has confirmed a covenant with us by being cut off for us, not for Himself! Selah!

It’s astonishing how blind you are to the truth with your false doctrine.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Isn't it rather obvious that the new Covenant is yet to be made?

No, it's rather obvious that it has been made.

Jesus has fulfilled His side of it, but we humans will pledge our side, after we are all settled into our heritage and established our own government. Hosea 1:11, Hosea 2:18-23

The new covenant is all about Jesus providing salvation and the forgiveness of sins for those who believe in Him. Our part of it is to put our faith in His blood that He shed to establish the new covenant.

This is correct; Jesus did that for us, but we will again make sacrifices for atonement of errors and thanksgiving. Isaiah 56:1-8

Nonsense! The only sacrifice for atonement needed is His! What an insult to Jesus to think we would ever need to make sacrifices for atonment! The purpose of animal sacrifices was to foreshadow Christ's sacrifice (Hebrews 10:1-10), so they no longer have any purpose and are permanently obsolete.

Your shouting and trumpet blowing, [written not verbal] on subjects we have done over many times before, just serves to dig the hole of false beliefs even further.

LOL. Meaningless comment.

I know it isn't impossible for a deceived person to overcome wrong beliefs.

Your prove that by refusing to acknowledge your wrong beliefs.

Difficult, but possible. Try it; your very life may depend on it!

No, you try it. You're the one believing wrongly about several things.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

There is no mention of any Covenant in Daniel 9.

Is that according to your flawed translation again? You really need to throw that translation in the trash. Every other English translation has the word covenant in this verse.

Daniel 9 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[Douggg]

There is no mention of any Covenant in Daniel 9.

Yes, there is.

Daniel's prayer was a confession of how his people Israel had violated the Mt. Sinai covenant that they agreed to. The Mt. Sinai covenant included the law of Moses.

Daniel 9:4 And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments; kjv

11 Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him. kjv

The covenant to be confirmed for 7 years in Daniel 9:27 is the Mt. Sinai covenant. It is not some sort of peace treaty will a supposed leader of a supposed One World Government.

 

[Douggg]

A clearly worded translation says: The prince will make a firm league with the many for one of the seventy........

Again, what translation are you quoting from ?

 

[Keraz]

The covenant to be confirmed for 7 years in Daniel 9:27 is the Mt. Sinai covenant

Impossible.
The agreement Prophesied in Daniel 9:27 cannot be the Mt Sinai Covenant. It is between a prince, [a powerful person' and many people.
It has nothing to do with the Jews, as they will be gone some time before this.

My Bible is the Revised English Bible, a superior translation of far better scholarship and sources that the outdated and erroneous KJV. The Bible dedicated to King James and full of Church doctrine of the 17th Century. You trust it at your peril.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Impossible.
The agreement Prophesied in Daniel 9:27 cannot be the Mt Sinai Covenant.

That is right, for once.

It is between a prince, [a powerful person' and many people.

No, the Messiah, referred to as the Prince in verse 26, is Jesus Christ. The people associated with this prince were the Jews, representing the congregation that embodied the Kingdom of God but opposed Christ, who is the true city and sanctuary. This is why Christ told the Jews that they would be the ones to destroy the temple, and in three days, He would rebuild it. We are the people of the congregation of Israel; we are His Temple. The unfaithful individuals from the Old Testament, AT THAT TIME (verse 26) who contributed to Christ's destruction, symbolize the stones of the temple falling. However, in three days, He rebuilt the temple and empowered the New Testament congregation to serve as His representatives in the Kingdom.

It has nothing to go with the Jews, as they will be gone some time before this.

Yes, it was the Jews who came and destroyed Christ. Because of this, their representative kingdom was taken away from them and given to the New Testament congregation that He rebuilt in three days. We, the Church, NOW represent God's kingdom spiritually, bringing the Gospel to the world since the Cross. Amen!

 

[Keraz]

No, the Messiah, referred to as the Prince in verse 26, is Jesus Christ.

There are two princes in Dan 9:26.
The first one is Jesus, as He is removed after 69 'weeks' have passed.
The second prince, commands an army which destroys the city and the Temple Obviously; Titus, - Rome and was fulfilled in 70-135 AD.

THEN, in Dan 9:27, another prince comes, plainly after the Roman conquest and at a time when there will be a new Temple in Jerusalem.
We can easily identify him, as being the leader of the fourth Kingdom, as described in Daniel 7:23-24 and in Dan 7:25, which relates to Rev 13:5-7, where he is called the 'beast' or the Anti-Christ.
Proved by 2 Thess 2:3-4.

Spiritualizing the end times Prophesies, just leads to confusion and error. There must be a future physical Kingdom on earth to fulfil the many Prophesies about it: Isaiah 2:1-5, Zechariah 14:16-21, +

 

[Keraz]

God’s Holy People in the Last Days:

Isaiah 62:1-12... ..They will be called the holy people; the Redeemed of the Lord.
Daniel 8:23-26 In the last days, when sin is most prevalent, a powerful leader will arise. He will succeed in whatever he does, and will take control of the mighty nations and of God’s holy people. By cunning and deceit, his plans will come about and cause great harm to many when they least expect it. He will challenge even the Prince of Princes, but then will be broken, but not by human hand.
This prophecy tells of events to happen in the distant future.

Daniel 7:23-25 The explanation given is: There will be a 4th kingdom, one that will encompass the whole earth. Initially ten rulers will govern it, but another leader will take over all this kingdom. He will defy the Most High God and will conquer the holy ones of God.

Revelation 13:7 The ‘beast’ is allowed to wage war on God’s people and to defeat them…. Vividly described in Zechariah 14:1-2
Daniel 11:32 By plausible promises he will win over those who will violate the Covenant, but some will resolutely keep their faith.
The Covenant here, is the one between God and His people, for their protection.

The treaty, the 7 year peace agreement of Daniel 9:27, is between the Leader of the One World Govt, and the leaders of the Christian nation of Beulah. It will be broken by the leader of the OWG after the first 3 1/2 years. Daniel 11:31

These Bible prophesies are proof that God’s holy people, His chosen elect people; all those true born again Christian believers; the One people of God, Ephesians 4:4-6, are not removed from the earth, as some would like to think, but are present in the holy Land during the last few years of this age.

As we see in Daniel 11:32, Zechariah 14:2b, they divide into two groups, one remaining in the holy Land and the other goes away. Revelation 12:6-17 again shows these two groups; the faithful ones who refused the peace treaty with the leader of the World Govt, taken to a place of safety and those who did agree with the treaty if Death; Isaiah 28:14-15, they must remain. Revelation 12:17

The fact of all the righteous Christians living in all of the Holy Land, before the Return of Jesus, is well prophesied in all of the Bible. Many do not see it because of false teachings and not comprehending the truth of how Christians are now to be the recipient’s of the promises of God, given initially to ethnic Israel, but now available to all true believers. 2 Corinthians 1:20

We Christians look forward to being at last the people God has always wanted in His holy Land.
That is our promise and our great privilege; to be alive to participate at this critical time of mankind’s history.
What I pray all will do, is see the real truth of what actually will happen.

 

[quietthinker]

Why do people not see the Bible as absolutely clear on the truth of the Lord's holy peoples being in the holy Land before the Return?

You have lost your way in the Prophetic word Keraz....cobbling scenarios from your imagination while assuming and putting it forth as greater insight. Where you have gone is the common path of delusion.
Those who see recognise this and wont have a bar of your fantastical imagining!

 

[Douggg]

My Bible is the Revised English Bible, a superior translation of far better scholarship and sources that the outdated and erroneous KJV. The Bible dedicated to King James and full of Church doctrine of the 17th Century. You trust it at your peril.

Your bible is the 1989 REB. There is not an online free view of the verses of that translation.

At the biblehub site for Daniel 9:27, the vast majority of translations have "covenant" in Daniel 9:27.

Daniel 9:27 - Gabriel's Prophecy of the Seventy Weeks

And he will confirm a covenant with many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of the temple will come the abomination that causes desolation, until the decreed destruction is poured out upon him.

biblehub.com

 

[Douggg]

God’s Holy People in the Last Days:

Isaiah 62:1-12... ..They will be called the holy people; the Redeemed of the Lord.
Daniel 8:23-26 In the last days, when sin is most prevalent, a powerful leader will arise. He will succeed in whatever he does, and will take control of the mighty nations and of God’s holy people. By cunning and deceit, his plans will come about and cause great harm to many when they least expect it. He will challenge even the Prince of Princes, but then will be broken, but not by human hand.
This prophecy tells of events to happen in the distant future.

Daniel 7:23-25 The explanation given is: There will be a 4th kingdom, one that will encompass the whole earth. Initially ten rulers will govern it, but another leader will take over all this kingdom. He will defy the Most High God and will conquer the holy ones of God.

Revelation 13:7 The ‘beast’ is allowed to wage war on God’s people and to defeat them…. Vividly described in Zechariah 14:1-2
Daniel 11:32 By plausible promises he will win over those who will violate the Covenant, but some will resolutely keep their faith.
The Covenant here, is the one between God and His people, for their protection.

The treaty, the 7 year peace agreement of Daniel 9:27, is between the Leader of the One World Govt, and the leaders of the Christian nation of Beulah. It will be broken by the leader of the OWG after the first 3 1/2 years. Daniel 11:31

These Bible prophesies are proof that God’s holy people, His chosen elect people; all those true born again Christian believers; the One people of God, Ephesians 4:4-6, are not removed from the earth, as some would like to think, but are present in the holy Land during the last few years of this age.

As we see in Daniel 11:32, Zechariah 14:2b, they divide into two groups, one remaining in the holy Land and the other goes away. Revelation 12:6-17 again shows these two groups; the faithful ones who refused the peace treaty with the leader of the World Govt, taken to a place of safety and those who did agree with the treaty if Death; Isaiah 28:14-15, they must remain. Revelation 12:17

The fact of all the righteous Christians living in all of the Holy Land, before the Return of Jesus, is well prophesied in all of the Bible. Many do not see it because of false teachings and not comprehending the truth of how Christians are now to be the recipient’s of the promises of God, given initially to ethnic Israel, but now available to all true believers. 2 Corinthians 1:20

We Christians look forward to being at last the people God has always wanted in His holy Land.
That is our promise and our great privilege; to be alive to participate at this critical time of mankind’s history.
What I pray all will do, is see the real truth of what actually will happen.

Keraz, is there anyone, other than yourself, who promotes the idea that the population of the current nation of Israel will be wiped out in a solar flare event and be replaced by Christians moving to there and creating a new Christian nation called Beulah ?

 

[Zao is life]

WE ALL must answer to God. For some. it won't be so bad, for teachers and promotors of false doctrines, like preterism =- not so good. James 3:1

You implied that I will answer to God for disagreeing with your false doctrine. I won't have to answer to God for that.

If I were you I would leave out statements about people needing to answer to God when linking those statements to what you say certain passages of scripture mean.

Just a piece of good and friendly advice.

 

[Scott Downey]

A nasty and vindictive comment.

Isn't it rather obvious that the new Covenant is yet to be made? Jesus has fulfilled His side of it, but we humans will pledge our side, after we are all settled into our heritage and established our own government. Hosea 1:11, Hosea 2:18-23

This is correct; Jesus did that for us, but we will again make sacrifices for atonement of errors and thanksgiving. Isaiah 56:1-8

Your shouting and trumpet blowing, [written not verbal] on subjects we have done over many times before, just serves to dig the hole of false beliefs even further.
I know it isn't impossible for a deceived person to overcome wrong beliefs. Difficult, but possible. Try it; your very life may depend on it!

The New Covenant is not like the old.
The NC is like the covenant God made with father Abraham.

God himself fulfilled that covenant, Abraham only had to believe God which made Abraham righteous with God, God performed it all.
Abraham's covenant came before the OC of the law of Moses. The OC was one of obedience to laws, ordinances, commandments and those who had a part in it had to perform obligations.

Here is what happened, God put Abraham to sleep. God performed the covenant between them, Abraham was knocked out, Abraham did NOTHING.

Genesis 15

After these things the word of the Lord came to Abram in a vision, saying, “Do not be afraid, Abram. I am your shield, [a]your exceedingly great reward.”

2 But Abram said, “Lord God, what will You give me, seeing I [b]go childless, and the heir of my house is Eliezer of Damascus?” 3 Then Abram said, “Look, You have given me no offspring; indeed one[c] born in my house is my heir!”

4 And behold, the word of the Lord came to him, saying, “This one shall not be your heir, but one who will come from your own body shall be your heir.” 5 Then He brought him outside and said, “Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them.” And He said to him, “So shall your descendants be.”

6 And he believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.

7 Then He said to him, “I am the Lord, who brought you out of Ur of the Chaldeans, to give you this land to inherit it.”

8 And he said, “Lord God, how shall I know that I will inherit it?”

9 So He said to him, “Bring Me a three-year-old heifer, a three-year-old female goat, a three-year-old ram, a turtledove, and a young pigeon.” 10 Then he brought all these to Him and cut them in two, down the middle, and placed each piece opposite the other; but he did not cut the birds in two. 11 And when the vultures came down on the carcasses, Abram drove them away.

12 Now when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and behold, horror and great darkness fell upon him. 13 Then He said to Abram: “Know certainly that your descendants will be strangers in a land that is not theirs, and will serve them, and they will afflict them four hundred years. 14 And also the nation whom they serve I will judge; afterward they shall come out with great possessions. 15 Now as for you, you shall [d]go to your fathers in peace; you shall be buried at a good old age. 16 But in the fourth generation they shall return here, for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete.”

17 And it came to pass, when the sun went down and it was dark, that behold, there appeared a smoking oven and a burning torch that passed between those pieces. 18 On the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying:

“To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the River Euphrates— 19 the Kenites, the Kenezzites, the Kadmonites, 20 the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Rephaim, 21 the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.”

****************
Only God walked between the carcasses, meaning the covenant was on God to perform it.
Back then in a covenant between 2 parties, both men would walk together between the carcass pieces, signifying it was both parties' responsibilities to uphold and maintain the covenant between them.

Since God put Abraham asleep, and only God walked between the carcasses, that signified it was entirely on God to maintain and perform the covenant He established with Abraham