Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so a 1000 yr reign on this earth is false

[Ritajanice]

Revelation 21

King James Version

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21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.
16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.
18 And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.
19 And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;
20 The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolyte; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.
21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls: every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.
22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

 

[David in NJ]

Revelation 21​

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King James Version​

​

​

21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.
16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.
18 And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.
19 And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;
20 The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolyte; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.
21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls: every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.
22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

According to God's Word, does this occur before or after the 1,000 Years?

 

[Doug]

How do you interpret this passage...

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Foreseeing a new heavens and earth

I guess I did ask that, but that's not really what I'm wanting to talk about.


The key phrase there is "not found in scripture". Please base your beliefs on scripture. Jesus made animal sacrifices obsolete by His sacrifice. It would be an insult to Christ for animal sacrifices to be reinstated. Please prayerfully read Hebrews 8 to 10.

My belief rests on Ezekiel saying there would be a temple and sacrifices

 

[covenantee]

the first thing is the Bible translations change testament to covenant, but outside of that for the new covenant to be in place today Israel would have to be fully in their promised land......[Eze 36:28 KJV] 28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

The terms "covenant" and "testament" are fully interchangeable and synonymous, as the use of both terms across the numerous translations shows. They are translations of the same Greek word. The NASB uses "covenant" more often and so provides the greater number of results on a search for that term.

Do you think that Christ and the writers of the Scriptures that I cited knew what Ezekiel had written?

 

[Doug]

Doug,
God will NEVER forgive Israel's sin under the Old Covenant = Hebrews 9:15

For this reason Christ is the mediator of a New Covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

Heb 9:15 says he forgave Israel's sins committed under the first testament by the blood of the new testament, which will allow God to be just to forgive their iniquity in the new covenant

 

[Doug]

That is not at all what scripture teaches. No one's sin can be forgiven under the old covenant. It can only be forgiven under the new covenant by way of Christ's blood.

Hebrews 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

I showed you scripture that said the new covenant is already in force and established and that it replaced the old covenant. Why do you not accept what that scripture teaches?

Hebrews 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

Hebrews 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

That is not at all what scripture teaches. No one's sin can be forgiven under the old covenant. It can only be forgiven under the new covenant by way of Christ's blood.

[Act 13:38 KJV] 38 Be it known unto you therefore, men [and] brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:
This is before the new covenant

I showed you scripture that said the new covenant is already in force and established and that it replaced the old covenant. Why do you not accept what that scripture teaches?

Hebrews 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

Hebrews 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

These verses dont say the nw covenant is in effect.....it says only the new covenant will take away the first......:may establish" 10:9 not established

 

[Doug]

I am just shocked whenever I see a Christian say something like this because I know that Jesus established the new covenant when He shed His blood on the cross while making the old covenant obsolete at the same time. The new covenant is all about Jesus and His sacrifice.

How exactly do you think the new covenant becomes established?

you Bible translation causes error .......Jesus shed his blood for the new testament.....a testament required the death of a testator to be in effect Heb 9:16-17....Jesus stated his will in Matthew 26:28 [Mat 26:28 KJV] 28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins......the new covenant will be made not has been[Jer 31:31 KJV] 31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:..............The new covenant will be made when Israel is in the promised land [Eze 36:24 KJV] 24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

 

[covenantee]

The throne of David is not some mystical metaphoric thing but an actual position that David himself occupied...the throne of Israel. This wasn't a spiritual symbol but a real throne. Jesus will occupy it for 1000 years during the millenial reign.

David's literal physical throne was destroyed over 2,000 years ago, circa 587 BC, by Nebuchadnezzar. It cannot be physically occupied.

Jesus occupies something immeasurably more great and glorious, David's throne in the heavens.

Ever since His resurrection.

 

[Scott Downey]

the new covenant has not been established yet it will be in the millennium kingdom

Absurdly false to say that.
We are in the New Covenant right now.
2 Cor 3

5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God,

6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the [a]Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

 

[Doug]

Why do you not accept it that Peter says we are?

[1Pe 1:1 KJV] 1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
Peter is writing to scattered jews...Gentile christians cant be scattered into their own land

Please show ne where Paul says we are a priesthood .....if we are he should relate it

 

[Scott Downey]

Hebrews 9
14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without [a]spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? 15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

 

[Doug]

Why do you not address my points? It's like you didn't even read what I said at all.

Where is that literal throne now?

you said .................

Notice here that Peter said there was a prophecy made by David where God told him that He would raise up Christ to sit on his (David's) throne and then said the prophecy was speaking "of the resurrection of Christ". And Peter said "This Jesus hath God raised up". By saying "This Jesus hath God raised up", he was saying that the prophecy about Jesus being raised up to sit on David's throne was fulfilled. God made Jesus "both Lord and Christ", proving that His level of power and authority had been elevated. Him being Lord means He is Master and King.

you cant say by being resurrected he fulfilled siting on David's throne......he was raised to sit on it in the millennium

Jesus throne is with God..........[Heb 12:2 KJV] 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of [our] faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

 

[Doug]

The terms "covenant" and "testament" are fully interchangeable and synonymous, as the use of both terms across the numerous translations shows. They are translations of the same Greek word. The NASB uses "covenant" more often and so provides the greater number of results on a search for that term.

Do you think that Christ and the writers of the Scriptures that I cited knew what Ezekiel had written?

They aren't really interchangeable but are co dependent.....a covenant doesnt require death a testament does....Christ shed his blood for the new testament so God could be just in forgiving Israel (Hebrews 9:15)....if you substitute new covenant for new testament you could be confused and think we are in the new covenant

 

[WPM]

The Holy Spirit already PROVED to you His Correlation of His Truth in the Holy Scriptures which HE Authorized.

God expects that we BELIEVE His every word = Matthew 4:4

Brilliant intellectual minds are not permitted to know = Matthew 11:25

Humbleness of mind and spirit REQUIRED = Matthew 18:1-7

PROVED = God's Word = Trust HIM at His Word
BELIEVE = God's Word = Have faith in His Word
REQUIRED = God's Word = Submit to His Word

Lol. Okay, you have nothing then. I get it.

 

[Doug]

Absurdly false to say that.
We are in the New Covenant right now.
2 Cor 3

5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God,

6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the [a]Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

the new covenant will be made with Israel not us Jeremiah 31:31 and wont be made til Israel is in all the land

 

[WPM]

According to God's Word, does this occur before or after the 1,000 Years?

After.

 

[Doug]

Hebrews 9
14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without [a]spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? 15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

This is talking about Israel

 

[WPM]

the new covenant will be made with Israel not us Jeremiah 31:31 and wont be made til Israel is in all the land

You are now denying the cross-work. Wow! You are denying Christ’s new covenant has already been introduced. Premil is letting it's mask fall. This is utter heresy. That is why it desires another temple, priesthood and blood sacrifices.

 

[WPM]

This is talking about Israel

True Israel - God's elect of all nations.

 

[Scott Downey]

This is talking about Israel

It is about all believers in Christ, not the jews only.
The apostles doctrines included the gentile and the jew in this new covenant, and the only qualifier is that you believe in Christ.

Acts 26

Paul Recounts His Conversion​

12 “While thus occupied, as I journeyed to Damascus with authority and commission from the chief priests, 13 at midday, O king, along the road I saw a light from heaven, brighter than the sun, shining around me and those who journeyed with me. 14 And when we all had fallen to the ground, I heard a voice speaking to me and saying in the Hebrew language, ‘Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads.’ 15 So I said, ‘Who are You, Lord?’ And He said, ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. 16 But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. 17 I will [b]deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I [c]now send you, 18 to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified[d] by faith in Me.’