What Keeps Us From Sinning In Heaven?

[BarneyFife]

Looking back my best memories of the college days are of the fellowship. But... even at that my two best friends were atheists. I never was nor could be although I did try for a while. It would not work. I could not even be an agnostic. My personal experiences with God as a Catholic Altar boy were real. I knew nothing of what the Bible contained other than the stories the nuns told and what the priest would say during mass, but I had encounters with God for certain two times, once at age 6 during Catholic baptism and the second time at age 10 out in a field behind my grandmother's house.

What I heard during my college years really was nonsense, especially in a Philosophy class, but I knew nothing to say and kept my mouth shut. A lot of water under the bridge since then... Both of my friends were smarter than me as far as IQ I guess according to the grade averages... if that means anything, but they were both dummies with regard to some really important things... to me anyway. Nevertheless at the time they were good to me and helped me in some bad situations. God was working on my behalf even then even though I did not know until years later.

I had friends exactly like this when I was in the Air Force and even in late (junior and senior year) high school, I think. They were very dear to me, but had differing basic values.

In recent years I've had an awakening with regard to moving away from judging people as basically good or evil in favor of judging individual expressions and actions and, even so, with more compassion than I had previously.

I don't mean to suggest that you were judging your friends.

It's just that I read something about 10 or 15 years ago about the apparently uncharacteristic selfless or virtuous acts of people normally thought to be evil originating with impulses that are directly from Christ. It seemed biblical and had a profound effect on me. Of course, age and the trials of life tend to urge a need for compassion, as well.

I'm growing weary of exchanging views that are largely absent of nuance. I have no interest in the theological chess games that used to have some gruesome appeal for me. And I have a growing desire to know God in the way of Christ's prayer of John 17.

 

[Brakelite]

Looking back my best memories of the college days are of the fellowship. But... even at that my two best friends were atheists. I never was nor could be although I did try for a while. It would not work. I could not even be an agnostic. My personal experiences with God as a Catholic Altar boy were real. I knew nothing of what the Bible contained other than the stories the nuns told and what the priest would say during mass, but I had encounters with God for certain two times, once at age 6 during Catholic baptism and the second time at age 10 out in a field behind my grandmother's house.

What I heard during my college years really was nonsense, especially in a Philosophy class, but I knew nothing to say and kept my mouth shut. A lot of water under the bridge since then... Both of my friends were smarter than me as far as IQ I guess according to the grade averages... if that means anything, but they were both dummies with regard to some really important things... to me anyway. Nevertheless at the time they were good to me and helped me in some bad situations. God was working on my behalf even then even though I did not know until years later.

I also was an altar boy, all my friends were Catholic until I left school to work. Despite the many shortcomings in my Catholic upbringing as far as doctrine, and experiential relational direction from the church (which to this day is actively discouraged) somehow, which I can only put down to the grace of God, I always found myself having a modicum of faith, despite my attempts to deny it in public.
So when for the first time I was verbally challenged by a Christian regarding my lifestyle and it's potential contrariness to the will of God, it was an easy thing to confess a belief in Him. It took a little longer to confess my utter need of Him.

 

[amadeus]

I had friends exactly like this when I was in the Air Force and even in late (junior and senior year) high school, I think. They were very dear to me, but had differing basic values.

In recent years I've had an awakening with regard to moving away from judging people as basically good or evil in favor of judging individual expressions and actions and, even so, with more compassion than I had previously.

I don't mean to suggest that you were judging your friends.

It's just that I read something about 10 or 15 years ago about the apparently uncharacteristic selfless or virtuous acts of people normally thought to be evil originating with impulses that are directly from Christ. It seemed biblical and had a profound effect on me. Of course, age and the trials of life tend to urge a need for compassion, as well.

I'm growing weary of exchanging views that are largely absent of nuance. I have no interest in the theological chess games that used to have some gruesome appeal for me. And I have a growing desire to know God in the way of Christ's prayer of John 17.

I believe that all that is good is most certainly of and/or from God. That many ungodly people never move toward God is their ultimate loss. I have taken too many wrong turns myself to be their judge at the moment. Could I ever be their judge? God knows!

 

[amadeus]

I also was an altar boy, all my friends were Catholic until I left school to work. Despite the many shortcomings in my Catholic upbringing as far as doctrine, and experiential relational direction from the church (which to this day is actively discouraged) somehow, which I can only put down to the grace of God, I always found myself having a modicum of faith, despite my attempts to deny it in public.
So when for the first time I was verbally challenged by a Christian regarding my lifestyle and it's potential contrariness to the will of God, it was an easy thing to confess a belief in Him. It took a little longer to confess my utter need of Him.

God has always been around us watching and waiting for that proper moment to draw hungry people to Him.

Mt 5:6

Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

 

[soberxp]

Could I ever be their judge? God knows!

If you fully understand the word of God,cuz every word of God is the judge.
Judge the Fruit Whether good.
Judge the fruit of ourselves first.
The fruit of others is left to God to Judge.
But you could Taste The fruit of others.

 

[BarneyFife]

If you are in heaven and you feel no pain, no injustice, Satisfy, as the Bible says, God will wipe away all their tears. A great pleasure or great joy.

And the spiritual body is not as weak as the physical body and needs to think about what to eat and drink even Wear.

How do you think such a body would commit a sin?

Let me know that.

Such a body (Revelation 16:14) would probably commit a sin the way Lucifer did, when his ways were perfect, just before/as iniquity was found in him (Ezekiel 28:15).

We will be like Jesus (1 John 3:2), who had an incorruptible body of flesh after he was risen from the tomb (John 20:27), of which there is no indication in the Bible to have been transformed into a 'spiritual body.'

 

[soberxp]

Such a body (Revelation 16:14) would probably commit a sin the way Lucifer did, when his ways were perfect, just before/as iniquity was found in him (Ezekiel 28:15).

I don't know Lucifer and I don't know if he/she's an angel.

We will be like Jesus (1 John 3:2), who had an incorruptible body of flesh after he was risen from the tomb (John 20:27), of which there is no indication in the Bible to have been transformed into a 'spiritual body.'

Jesus Christ is the The Spiritual Adam, has the spiritual body.not something Spiritual Lucifer.

I know that it's good enough for your question.

 

[amadeus]

If you fully understand the word of God,cuz every word of God is the judge.
Judge the Fruit Whether good.
Judge the fruit of ourselves first.
The fruit of others is left to God to Judge.
But you could Taste The fruit of others.

Indeed... do the following verses have any bearing on this?

Ecc. 3:18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
Ecc. 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.

Lev 11:8

Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you.

Ecc 4:5

The fool foldeth his hands together, and eateth his own flesh.

 

[soberxp]

Indeed... do the following verses have any bearing on this?

Ecc. 3:18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
Ecc. 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.

Lev 11:8

Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you.

Ecc 4:5

The fool foldeth his hands together, and eateth his own flesh.

I don't think it all to do with what I call fruit of good or fruit of God. But good question!

Lve 11:8 This is a metaphor that don't eat the Fruit of the tree of Good and evil, cuz it's death.

Ecc 4:5 This is a metaphor that the fool eat the Fruit of the tree of Good and evil from their own understanding.

Ecc 3:18-19 This is a metaphor that In this world we all will meet the fruit of the tree of good and evil,for all is vanity.


Only eat the word of God, the tree of life which is Jesus Christ the living word of God.

 

[amadeus]

Only eat the word of God, the tree of life which is Jesus Christ the living word of God.

Yes...

Joh 6:48

I am that bread of life.

Joh 6:51

I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

Joh 10:10

The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

 

[talons]

Yet two of them were just newly created in the image of Christ. Lucifer stood in the very presence of the Almighty. They walked in the garden with God. Communed with Him on a daily basis. All 3 fell.

All three had a mind of their own and were able to make decisions , they chose poorly .

And infected the rest of us with a terminal illness.

Adam was a dead man walking unless he partook of the tree of life . Why didn't he eat of the tree of life when he had the opportunity to ? I do not believe in the nebulous sin nature .

Was not Lucifer at one time a holy spirit?

He is a created being with an ability to make decisions of his own thinking . His thinking was stinking .

Was not Adam and Eve filled with God's Spirit ?

What we Christians know as the Holy Spirit came at Pentecost , Adam and Eve did not have the Holy Spirit .

Adam and Eve were not intellectually deprived either, they had full use of their intellectual capabilities and understood sciences today's PhDs can only dream of.

Scripture of support for this statement ?

They were perfect in every respect. Yet they fell.

Decision making has been given to all of us , selfishness is in EVERY human created even Jesus had a dose of it as seed of a woman . Discernment in our decisions as Christians is provided to us through the Holy Spirit but we must HEED what the Holy Spirit tells us .

What more is available to us now that they didn't have or understand?

History . We have the BIBLE , hindsight is 20/20 .

I suggest that we have the advantage of the full appreciation of the extent and magnitude of the love of God in Christ crucified. That my friend is what I believe will make all the difference.

We do , and with that we have the Holy Spirit as our comforter .

 

[Brakelite]

Which is to imply that He made Adam and Eve imperfect, not only contrary to the Bible s testimony in Genesis 1:31, but leaving them at a disadvantage that cursed us all—which I can't accept as an act of the loving God of the Bible. It's sabotage. Be it far from the Lord.

I hate the concept held by some that God deliberately established or created sin just so He could be merciful. Ridiculous and as you say, sabotage.

 

[Lambano]

I hate the concept held by some that God deliberately established or created sin just so He could be merciful. Ridiculous and as you say, sabotage.

You mean Supralapsarian Calvinism?

It's not just so that God could demonstrate mercy, though God's mercy is important. I have to believe that God's ultimate plans for us (whatever those may be) require that we have experiential knowledge of Good and Evil. Otherwise, you have to concede that Humanity was set up to fail by its Creator.

 

[Brakelite]

You mean Supralapsarian Calvinism?

It's not just so that God could demonstrate mercy, though God's mercy is important. I have to believe that God's ultimate plans for us (whatever those may be) require that we have experiential knowledge of Good and Evil. Otherwise, you have to concede that Humanity was set up to fail by its Creator.

I'm not intelligent or educated enough to work out why it's wrong, but God requiring us to experience evil for us to recognise good seems to me to be saying it's necessary to experience darkness before we recognise light. There is no such thing as evil in a materialistic sense, only the absence of good, just as darkness cannot exist anywhere there is light. Okay, I'm not making much sense to myself here, likely even less to you. Sorry. But when God declared that creation was very good, I believe Him, and I think Eve did also. She didn't have to believe Satan's lies as if God was holding something back so as to prevent her from some exalted form of existence...god....selfishly keeping divinity only to Himself. Adam sinned out of love for Eve...FOMO. I still think I'm making no sense. Simply put, I don't believe there is such a thing as a necessary evil.

 

[Gottservant]

I think in Heaven, we will be too busy to sin.

 

[AngelicArcher]

Never too late to NIP IT.

* does a little dance
"Nip it, nip it good! Do do do do do do,do,do..."

Oops.

 

[BarneyFife]

* does a little dance
"Nip it, nip it good! Do do do do do do,do,do..."

Oops.

"Cr-r-rack that nip!!"

 

[marks]

You mean Supralapsarian Calvinism?

It's not just so that God could demonstrate mercy, though God's mercy is important. I have to believe that God's ultimate plans for us (whatever those may be) require that we have experiential knowledge of Good and Evil. Otherwise, you have to concede that Humanity was set up to fail by its Creator.

I think that in order for God to gather together a family who loves Him because they want to means that we have to have a choice, and having a choice, while not having an intrinsically good nature, means that eventually, the wrong choice will be made. God, knowing that, created us anyway, knowing He would then provide a way through it for us.

Not set up to fail, set up to choose, and then be rescued.

Much love!