The Coming Rapture

[The Light]

I do believe it is immediate.

1 Thes 4:
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Then indicates immediately following,
Rather than denoting different times, days.

I do not think that it is immediate because of the harvests relating to feasts of God. They are a shadow of what is to come.

Then can also mean after that; next; afterwards.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

This is not correct. The harvest occurs at the 6th seal. The wrath of God is the 7th seal.

No. The 6th seal announces that the harvest and wrath of the Lamb are at hand and then it happens at the 7th seal/7th trumpet/7th vial.

1 Thes 5
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Shortly before that verse Paul taught that the wrath we are not appointed to happens suddenly and unexpectedly like a thief in the night on the day the Lord Jesus Christ returns, which is the same day that we are caught up to meet the Lord in the air (1 Thess 4:14-5:3).

What you are saying DOES NOT agree with the scripture.

Yes, it does. Unfortunately, you misinterpret the scripture.

You say, right after we are caught up in the air, He will then send down His wrath on the unbelievers left on the earth.

That is correct. Tell me, when else does 2 Thess 1:10 happen except for when we are caught up in the air?

2 Thessalonians 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Only doctrinal bias can make someone think that "When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe" will happen at some other time than when we are caught up to Him in the air. And, clearly, on the same day "When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe", He will take vengeance on unbelievers.

Notice the scripture says that the tribulation is over first.

Yeah? Obviously.

And then the gathering from heaven and earth occurs. This is opposite of what you are saying. Therefore, what you say is not correct.

I did not say the opposite of that. Tell me exactly what I said that you think was the opposite of what you said here.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

So, you are saying you think "the tribulation of those days" refers to God's wrath? If so, I disagree. Keep reading after that verse.

Matthew 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: 33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. 34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. 35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. 36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Notice here that Jesus says when the things He talked about start to happen then you will know that His second coming and gathering of the elect is near. Then, He points out how no one knows the day or hour His second coming will happen and also points out that when it happens He will destroy all unbelievers just like all unbelievers were destroyed by the flood on Noah's day. So, the wrath and the gathering of the elect happens on the same day when Jesus comes again.

On a sidenote, your observation that I change what I am saying sometimes is correct. When I learn something, I do not hesitate to change my beliefs.

That's a good thing. I give you kudos for that. I have changed my beliefs at times in the past as well. Not as much in more recent times because after studying things for a long time a person usually becomes more and more set in his or her beliefs. But, I'm not closed-minded about things despite how I may come across. I just have studied this so long that it makes it less likely that I will change any of my beliefs at this point. Though I did change how I interpret Revelation 10:1-3 recently because of something WPM said. He indicating that he believes that passage is referring to Jesus and I agree. It refers to an angel there, but the Greek word can mean "messenger" as well. If you disagree, that's fine. I'm not going to argue about that here. I'm just giving an example where I did change my interpretation of something recently.

You challenged me recently when we were discussing sudden destruction. I was saying that the Day of the Lord is one year long, and the sudden destruction would occur at the end of the year at Armageddon. You wanted to know how sudden destruction could take a year. I went back and looked at all the related scriptures and realized that you were correct.

Okay. That reference to "sudden destruction" is obviously from 1 Thess 5:2-3. So, did this change how you interpret anything in Revelation?

I was saying that the Day of the Lord is one-year long. I was in error. I should have said that the day of wrath or the day of vengeance is one year long.

The day of the Lord is the day of wrath/vengeance, so, unfortunately, you are still mistaken.

The Day of the Lord is the destruction at Armageddon when Jesus returns with the armies of heaven. It is sudden destruction. So you made me think and you were correct. Kudos.

Again, kudos to you for being willing to reconsider that and for recognizing that, but I don't understand why you don't recognize that the day of the Lord and the day of wrath are the same thing. I hope you will reconsider that, also.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

1 Thessalonians 4
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The Lord brings the dead, which have already risen, with him when He comes for the alive that remain. The dead are in the clouds. The alive are caught up together with those that are already in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air.

No one has risen from the dead yet before what is described in 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 occurs. You are the only one I've ever seen who believes that. The ones who the Lord brings with Him at that time are the souls of the dead in Christ. They then unite with their resurrected, changed bodies.

 

[Taken]

I do not think that it is immediate because of the harvests relating to feasts of God. They are a shadow of what is to come.

Then can also mean after that; next; afterwards.

The intent and focus is in regard to those who Are Converted IN Christ.
No pause is indicated, only the physically dead being first.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

As there is nowhere in the Bible that actually says anyone will be taken to live in heaven; do you have a Plan B?

Paul said to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord... did
you not know the Lord is in Heaven right now at God's Right Hand???

Those of us who will be taken in the rapture will look down
upon thee and say.... "Glad we did not believe like that guy"

While ya'll are going thru the great tribulation, the rest of us will be having that heavenly feast!

 

[ewq1938]

Please quote the scripture that says the resurrected body of the dead in Christ is already in heaven before He resurrects it from the dead.

I posted all the verses here:

The Coming Rapture

Do you have the scripture on that? Yes. 2Co 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2Co 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which...

www.christianityboard.com

The dead in Christ, which is the dead body of the one in Christ, remains in the grave until the coming of the Lord,

And it will rwemain there forever as the body of the saved is not given back to the saved dead. They have a new body in heaven according to Paul.

in which at the trumpet of God, all the dead in Christ are resurrected and then all who are alive and remain, are caught up with them.

it says, "caught up with them in the clouds" The living are the only ones raptured. The dead are not raptured but are in the clouds with Christ when the rapture happens.

 

[JLB]

The living are the only ones raptured.

Those who are alive and remain are caught up TOGETHER with those who are resurrected.

The dead (sleeping) bodies of the dead in Christ are resurrected from the dead.

• Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

 

[JLB]

I posted all the verses here:

2Co 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2Co 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

The new body is in heaven! Here Paul uses an analogy of a building, house and tabernacle to represent a physical body.

So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 1 Corinthians 15:42-44

• It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

It the new spiritual body will raised from the old natural body at His coming.


For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.
1 Corinthians 15:22-23


For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. 2 Corinthians 5:1-4

Eternal in the heavens because the eternal resurrection body is that of Christ’s eternal resurrection body that those who are “in Christ” will receive at His coming.

Our dead bodies will be clothed with His eternal resurrected body.


Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 1 John 3:2

 

[rebuilder 454]

Right Jesus holds the sickle....... and sends His angels to gather the elect, just as Matthew 24 says. Revelation 14:14 is the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24. It occurs at the 6th seal. It is a harvest.

Yes, the elect Jews are gathered from the earth............immediately after the tribulation OF THOSE DAYS. The Church is in heaven BEFORE the tribulation.

It is the Jews that go through the great tribulation. The Word of God is clear on this. Those that get victory over the beast are singing the song of Moses. They are of the 12 tribes across the earth.

Revelation 15
2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.



I totally agree with this.

The rapture of the Church will be a secret coming. The dead in Christ rise first in the spring and alive remain until the end of summer.

The harvest of Revelation 14:14 is the second coming when all eyes see the coming of the Lord. JESUS REMAINS IN THE CLOUDS. He does not touch the earth at this time. At this rapture, all go to heaven for the marriage supper. This harvest occurs at the 6th seal and is the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24........as marked by the signs of the sun and moon being darkened and the stars falling from heaven. Then seventh seal is opened and the wrath of God begins.

Rev 19 is the third. This is Armageddon. After Armageddon Jesus will set His feet on the mount of Olives.


How can I be missing the target when everything I am saying is proven by the Word of God?

You have been taught that the tribulation and the wrath of God are the same thing. I see you were unable to answer my 2 questions about the tribulation and the wrath of God.

The great tribulation is when saints are killed for their faith by the beast. This begins when the AOD is set up. The great tribulation is the 5th seal.

The wrath of God is when God punishes unbelievers. The wrath of God is the 7th seal.

I have no clue how you can conclude the tribulation and wrath are the same thing or than that's what you were taught. The scriptures certainly do not support this belief, nor does common sense.

The Gt is 2 parts.
That is a no brainer.

In school the second semester is not the first, but neither cancels out the other.
In pregnancy , the first trimester is not the third, and never cancels the third.

Have 2 timeframes in the gt does not remove the length of it.
You are...once again....hung up over definitions
I have never, nor ever will, say the 7 yr gt does not have wrath at the second part.

But you have some block to think that trib can not contain wrath, and wrath can not contain trib.

BTW
Take a look at the 4 horsemen. Millions killed.
Not necessarily Jews or believers.
That is at the beginning ot the gt 7 yr period.
So where in that early slaughter of earth's population, can we we say " trib is only the devil persecution of believers"...when in the wrath part of the trib we see God killing unbelievers.????
They Both are killing unbelievers in both sections of the wrath and trib.
Crunch the numbers
Look at the millions killed by horsemen sent from heaven , at the START of the gt, and ask yourself why you can not call that wrath???

It is beyond obvious there is an overlap, and the trib part kills almost as many unbelievers as the wrath part.

Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. Revelation 14:9-12

• Here is the patience of the saints;

Jesus said it this way concerning the great tribulation —


But he who endures to the end shall be saved. Matthew 24:13

You are saying all the martyrs killed during the gt were not saved?
All those currently in the grave are not saved?
Only posttibbers are saved?
( while running from cave to cave with the AC chasing after them ?)

Or maybe you don't know what "enduring to the end" means.
Did Paul "endure to the end"?

 

[rebuilder 454]

The pretrib group believes they go before the great tribulation.


In fact, the resurrection of the dead in Christ occurs before the rapture at the coming of the Lord.

Show me one postrib rapture verse against my 10 or so pretrib rapture verses.
Any one of the pretrib rapture verses destroys ANY hope of a supposed postrib rapture theory.
Try and find a verse supporting your view.

 

[The Light]

The intent and focus is in regard to those who Are Converted IN Christ.
No pause is indicated, only the physically dead being first.

He will bring the dead with Him as they rise first. The alive will not prevent them which are asleep. The alive remain. All facts of scripture.

The feasts of God are proof that these events do not happen at the same time.

 

[rebuilder 454]

No. The 6th seal announces that the harvest and wrath of the Lamb are at hand and then it happens at the 7th seal/7th trumpet/7th vial.


Shortly before that verse Paul taught that the wrath we are not appointed to happens suddenly and unexpectedly like a thief in the night on the day the Lord Jesus Christ returns, which is the same day that we are caught up to meet the Lord in the air (1 Thess 4:14-5:3).


Yes, it does. Unfortunately, you misinterpret the scripture.


That is correct. Tell me, when else does 2 Thess 1:10 happen except for when we are caught up in the air?

2 Thessalonians 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Only doctrinal bias can make someone think that "When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe" will happen at some other time than when we are caught up to Him in the air. And, clearly, on the same day "When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe", He will take vengeance on unbelievers.


Yeah? Obviously.


I did not say the opposite of that. Tell me exactly what I said that you think was the opposite of what you said here.


So, you are saying you think "the tribulation of those days" refers to God's wrath? If so, I disagree. Keep reading after that verse.

Matthew 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: 33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. 34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. 35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. 36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Notice here that Jesus says when the things He talked about start to happen then you will know that His second coming and gathering of the elect is near. Then, He points out how no one knows the day or hour His second coming will happen and also points out that when it happens He will destroy all unbelievers just like all unbelievers were destroyed by the flood on Noah's day. So, the wrath and the gathering of the elect happens on the same day when Jesus comes again.


That's a good thing. I give you kudos for that. I have changed my beliefs at times in the past as well. Not as much in more recent times because after studying things for a long time a person usually becomes more and more set in his or her beliefs. But, I'm not closed-minded about things despite how I may come across. I just have studied this so long that it makes it less likely that I will change any of my beliefs at this point. Though I did change how I interpret Revelation 10:1-3 recently because of something WPM said. He indicating that he believes that passage is referring to Jesus and I agree. It refers to an angel there, but the Greek word can mean "messenger" as well. If you disagree, that's fine. I'm not going to argue about that here. I'm just giving an example where I did change my interpretation of something recently.


Okay. That reference to "sudden destruction" is obviously from 1 Thess 5:2-3. So, did this change how you interpret anything in Revelation?


The day of the Lord is the day of wrath/vengeance, so, unfortunately, you are still mistaken.


Again, kudos to you for being willing to reconsider that and for recognizing that, but I don't understand why you don't recognize that the day of the Lord and the day of wrath are the same thing. I hope you will reconsider that, also.

I told him that also, but you were more eloquent.

 

[rebuilder 454]

He will bring the dead with Him as they rise first. The alive will not prevent them which are asleep. The alive remain. All facts of scripture.

The feasts of God are proof that these events do not happen at the same time.

No
They meet the resurrected in the air immediately.
The rapture is the gathering of the bride.
Dead in Christ along with the living.

 

[rebuilder 454]

So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 1 Corinthians 15:42-44

• It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

It the new spiritual body will raised from the old natural body at His coming.


For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.
1 Corinthians 15:22-23


For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. 2 Corinthians 5:1-4

Eternal in the heavens because the eternal resurrection body is that of Christ’s eternal resurrection body that those who are “in Christ” will receive at His coming.

Our dead bodies will be clothed with His eternal resurrected body.


Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 1 John 3:2

Start a thread on Rev 14:14.
Ask postribs to unpack it.

They can't.
Rev14:14 is the nuclear Bomb.
Blows a hole in postribber doctrine so big, a bus could drive through it

 

[rebuilder 454]

1 Thessalonians 4
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The Lord brings the dead, which have already risen, with him when He comes for the alive that remain. The dead are in the clouds. The alive are caught up together with those that are already in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air.

1) you put a gap in there that is not there.
2) the dead in Christ that are currently in the grave are raised at the rapture of 1 thes 4.
3) Jesus brings the " 'dead' spirits" (without bodies), ALREADY IN HEAVEN, with him at the rapture.
4) it is as if you totally miss what is happening at the graves opening up ( 1 thes 4).
5) what is resurrected????
Where are the spirits currently of those currently in the grave?????
You do not know they come with him without glorified bodies, and enter the new bodies?????
Totally rotted bodies are somehow rebuilt instantly. But the SAME SPIRIT that went to heaven 100 yrs ago re enters that new body.

THAT is >>>> "he brings with him those that died"

 

[rebuilder 454]

He will bring the dead with Him as they rise first. The alive will not prevent them which are asleep. The alive remain. All facts of scripture.

The feasts of God are proof that these events do not happen at the same time.

How did the innumerable number get to heaven?
(A harvest so large nobody can count them.)

What feast depicts them?
Remember it is declared that the times of the Gentiles must be completed.
Why must they be completed?
IOW THE END OF the church age.
The Gentile bride ( book of Ruth)
Naomi being the catalyst/land owner/ primary inherator/ and given the offspring of Ruth/Boaz, (meaning the bond is inseparable ...and yet separate)
The gt is JACOBS TROUBLE...or ISRAEL'S TROUBLE.
7!!!!
7 YEARS!!!!!

Miriam was judged 7 days
Nebachanezer was judge 7 years.

Jesus said "...those days shortened"
Those days (7 years), are shortened at Rev 14.
Rev 14 is 100% Jewsish harvests.
Firstfruits is the 144k, main harvest OF "JEWS ONLY" ,is by Jesus sitting on a cloud.

Wheat and barley is Gentiles.
Fruit harvest is Jews only.

 

[The Light]

No. The 6th seal announces that the harvest and wrath of the Lamb are at hand and then it happens at the 7th seal/7th trumpet/7th vial.

The seventh seal contains 7 trumpets and 7 vials. You seem to think that the 7th seal contains only the 7th trumpet and 7th vial

Do you think the seals are already open?

I will address the rest of your post later.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The seventh seal contains 7 trumpets and 7 vials. You seem to think that the 7th seal contains only the 7th trumpet and 7th vial

Nope. It doesn't contain any of the trumpets or vials. Where is that stated in the text? Nowhere. I believe what is described in relation to the seventh seal happens concurrently with what is described in the 7th trumpet and 7th vials. There is no reason to think that the 7th seal contains any trumpets or vials.

Do you think the seals are already open?

I don't know and I'm not sure why it matters if they have been opened yet or not. It doesn't have to be the case that they are opened immediately before what is described within them happens. Jesus could have opened them long ago after He ascended to reveal things that would happen in the future from that time. What difference does it make if that's the case or if He opens each one right before what is described in relation to each one happens?

 

[The Light]

Nope. It doesn't contain any of the trumpets or vials. Where is that stated in the text?

Revelation 8
1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.

5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.

6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;

Etc...........Etc......................

I don't know and I'm not sure why it matters if they have been opened yet or not. It doesn't have to be the case that they are opened immediately before what is described within them happens. Jesus could have opened them long ago after He ascended to reveal things that would happen in the future from that time. What difference does it make if that's the case or if He opens each one right before what is described in relation to each one happens?

It matters because I'm trying to figure where you think those first 6 trumpets and 6 vials occur.

It's like everyone wants to ignore those first 6 trumpets and vials and pretend they do not occur in the 7th seal........ which is after the 6th seal. When are they going to happen?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Revelation 8
1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.

5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.

6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;

Etc...........Etc......................

None of that says the seventh seal contains the seven trumpets and vials. Try again.

It matters because I'm trying to figure where you think those first 6 trumpets and 6 vials occur.

I see each seal as being parallel to each trumpet and vial. I don't see the seven seals occurring, followed by the seven trumpet, followed by the seven vials like you do. Look at the descrition of the seventh trumpet. How can anything happen on the earth after those who destroy the earth are destroyed? Also, the seventh trumpet signals "the time of the dead, that they should be judged". When are the dead judged? After the thousand years (and Satan's little season), as can be seen in Revelation 20:11-15. Interpreting the seals, trumpets and vials all in chronological order (seals followed by trumpets followed by vials) contradicts other scripture.

It's like everyone wants to ignore those first 6 trumpets and vials and pretend they do not occur in the 7th seal........ which is after the 6th seal.

I ignore nothing. Ever. Why don't you try a bit harder to understand what others believe instead of assuming they are ignoring the first 6 trumpets and vials? Nowhere does it say they occur in the 7th seal. That comes only from your imagination.