The many errors and contradictions found in Amillennialism.

[PinSeeker]

The term millennium was not even in use until the 17th century.

John wrote Revelation ~ and specific to this point, Revelation 20 ~ in about 95 A.D., Timtofly. In the first century.

Not even all "amil" agree on this alleged doctrine.

I mean there's all kind of opinions regarding anything. But regarding the millennium of Revelation 20, there has from very early after John wrote Revelation always been disagreement on when the millennium is in relation to Jesus's return.

What you have said here is really... I mean, no offense, but... has no meaning. Non sequitur, as it were.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[PinSeeker]

59. Does Amillennialism promote the gospel being locked in the pit with satan?

Yes, sadly.

No. Good grief. LOL! Amillennialists assert that Satan, as a result of being "locked in the pit," is unable to prevent the spread of the Gospel to the nations, which is exactly what John says in Revelation 20.

Goodness gracious.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[PinSeeker]

That isn't what John says at all.

Yes it is... :) What he says is not really what he says? LOL!

Locked in the pit is real, not "this isn't real".

Sure, it's real. Goodness gracious. But this pit... do you think it's a hole somewhere on earth? Surely not. My goodness. Just because we say something is spiritual and/or symbolic is not synonymous in any way with "not real." Wow.

He is imprisoned to keep him from deceiving the nations, and that is for only a temporary time then God allows him to deceive them.

Agreed. As if I ever disagreed with this...

Amill teaches the chain is the gospel...

No. Good Lord.

...and the bible places the chain in the pit with satan...

Well, the "chain" is what the dragon ~ Satan ~ is "seized" with. And this is all quite metaphorical, but certainly indicative of a very real taking away of Satan's ability to ~ a very real sealing of Satan from being able to ~ deceive the nations, or prevent the spread of the Gospel to all the nations. And this is what enables Jesus to send His disciples to all nations to spread the Gospel and thereby to make disciples, which is what He mandates at the end of Matthew's gospel... what we call the Great Commission.

so it is true Amill teaches the gospel is in the pit.

So no. If "Amil" were to teach such a thing, it would basically be saying Jesus gave a mandate to His disciples that was impossible complete or be successful in doing, which is absolutely ridiculous.

Do you ever even think about what you're saying and why you're saying it? What color are the skies in your world, EWQ? :)

Grace and peace to you.

 

[PinSeeker]

Wrong. It is an Amill belief of most.

In your opinion. Yeah, I'm good with that. :) I mean there may be some out there who consider themselves Amillennialists who actually believe "the Gospel is in the pit," but that's quite a ridiculous belief, and Amillennialism would disavow it.

satan is bound and imprisoned LONG AFTER the great commission ends.

LOL! We'll... agree to disagree. :)

The bible describes satan as free, and prowling around...

Yes, and while true, this prowling around is misunderstood by so many. Yeah, yeah, you think it's me and others who understand this along the same lines as I do, and I think it's you and others who understand this along the same lines as you do. All good, right? :)

It is not until the second coming that satan will be imprisoned.

Disagree...

Currently satan is free...

In a sense, yes, but bound completely from deceiving the nations, unable to prevent the spread of the Gospel to all nations.

This is why the world is so sinful and evil and grows worse year by year.

Ah, well, I think I would disagree with the growing worse thing. As the writer of Ecclesiastes says, there's nothing new under the sun. Sin is a terrible thing. But one day there will be no more sin. Come quickly, Lord Jesus.

Stop making personal jabs.

I don't do that. Except maybe to poke a little good-natured humor from time to time. :) No offense intended.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The earliest ones were all Premill.

That is a lie. The early church father Justin Martyr acknowledged that there were many Christians who did not share his Premill belief. I can't believe that you have no conscience about lying. Shameful.

Amill didn't exist unti, the 3rd century and it came from the RCC.

Nonsense. Another lie from you. You know you can't refute Amillennialism with scripture, so you resort to making lies about it instead. Pathetic.

 

[ewq1938]

No. Good grief. LOL! Amillennialists assert that Satan, as a result of being "locked in the pit," is unable to prevent the spread of the Gospel to the nations, which is exactly what John says in Revelation 20.

That isn't what John says at all. Locked in the pit is real, not "this isn't real". He is imprisoned to keep him from deceiving the nations, and that is for only a temporary time then God allows him to deceive them.

Amill teaches the chain is the gospel and the bible places the chain in the pit with satan so it is true Amill teaches the gospel is in the pit.

 

[Truth7t7]

That isn't what John says at all. Locked in the pit is real, not "this isn't real". He is imprisoned to keep him from deceiving the nations, and that is for only a temporary time then God allows him to deceive them.

Amill teaches the chain is the gospel and the bible places the chain in the pit with satan so it is true Amill teaches the gospel is in the pit.

Satan is "Currently" bound from "One Specific Purpose", And One Only?

"Deceive The Nations To Battle"

The Non-Literal 1,000 Years (Revelation) 20:1-6 Are Taking Place Now In The Lords Spiritual, And Will Cease At The Future Second Coming

If A Tribulation Saint Were To Die One Day Before The Second Coming, He Enters Into The Non-Literal 1,000 Year Reign

Many That Promote Millennialism Falsely Teach, Satan Cant Be Presently Bound Because Evil Exist In The World?

Satan Is Presently Bound As Is Clearly Seen In (Revelation) 20:7-8 Below That Interprets (Deceive The Nations) Is To Battle, Not General Evil In The World Presently.

Satan Is Loosed At The End Of The Tribulation When The 6th Vial Is Poured Out As Seen In (Revelation) 16:12, The Deception Is Devils In False Miracles Going Forth To The Kings Of The Earth, To Gather Them To The Final Battle

(Revelation) 20:1-9KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

(Revelation) 16:12-14 & (Revelation) 20:7-8 Same Deception In Gathering The Nations To The Very Same Final Battle In "Parallel" Teachings Of The Same Event

(Revelation) 16:12-17KJV
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

 

[Davy]

Satan is "Currently" bound from "One Specific Purpose", And One Only?

"Deceive The Nations To Battle"

The Non-Literal 1,000 Years (Revelation) 20:1-6 Are Taking Place Now In The Lords Spiritual, And Will Cease At The Future Second Coming

....

Nope! It ain't yet taking place today.

Where's my "camp of the saints" on earth I'm supposed to be gathered to by Christ, per Rev.20?

Why ain't I reigning right now over ALL NATIONS with Christ's "rod of iron" He was promised to use to reign over ALL nations, per Psalms 2? And why ain't we WITH Jesus LITERALLY for His marriage supper He promised to partake with us like the supper He did with His Apostles on earth?

And why aren't ALL... the 12 tribes of Israel back in the holy lands like God Promised, with Christ's reigning there as KING? Even half of the city of Jerusalem today is given to and controlled by Islamic Arabs who reject Jesus Christ. And even the majority of Jews there in the holy lands today still reject Jesus Christ!

I could on and on and on with all the STUPID falseness of man's false theory of Amillennialism which does not align with God's written Word at all!

 

[PinSeeker]

That isn't what John says at all.

It is. We disagree, of course.

Locked in the pit is real...

Yes, it is, I agree. But what we disagree on is the sense, the nature of these things. It's all real, for sure.

He is imprisoned to keep him from deceiving the nations, and that is for only a temporary time then God allows him to deceive them.

I absolutely, totally agree, as all Amillennialists worth their salt would, but Satan can do nothing without the permission of God Himself, without God allowing him to do something ~ as He did with Job. Remember, God said to Satan, "Behold, all that he has is in your hand. Only against him do not stretch out your hand" (Job 1:12), so God restricted Satan from harming Job himself, so "imprisoned" Satan in the sense that he was not allowed to, and thus restricted from, harming Job himself. That's exactly what John is saying about Satan's restriction now from preventing the spread of the Gospel to the nations; he is absolutely restricted from doing and unable to do that very thing. In this sense, he is bound/imprisoned/chained. And Jesus says that in Matthew 12:28-29, saying, "if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. Or how can someone enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man?" Jesus is that "someone" Who has "entered the strong man's" (Satan's) "house" (the world), and is "plundering his goods" drawing men unto Himself.

Amill teaches the chain is the gospel...

No, it doesn't. The chain... well, see directly below.

...and the bible places the chain in the pit with satan...

The chain mentioned in Revelation 20 is a visual image that indicates ~ is representative of ~ Satan's absolute restriction from preventing the spread of the Gospel to the nations.

...so it is true Amill teaches the gospel is in the pit.

Absolutely not. The Gospel is in this world and is unrestricted, spreading to all nations per Jesus's mandate, His Great Commission, as we call it, in Matthew 28, to "(g)o therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded..." In sending us, He is sending the Gospel to all nations, and commanding us to be the "vehicles" for this taking place, to be His witnesses to the ends of the earth.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Truth7t7]

Nope! It ain't yet taking place today.

Where's my "camp of the saints" on earth I'm supposed to be gathered to by Christ, per Rev.20?

Rev 20 states no such a thing, it's speaking of dead souls in the spiritual realm and has absolutely nothing to do with the physical earthly as you falsely claim

Revelation 20:1-6 Isnt A Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, Dont Be Deceived​

Can you find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) Physical Mortal Humans?

The Above Claims (Don't Exist)

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[Truth7t7]

Why ain't I reigning right now over ALL NATIONS with Christ's "rod of iron" He was promised to use to reign over ALL nations, per Psalms 2?

Will Jesus Rule With A "Rod Of Iron" A King's Scepter, During A Millennium As Many Teach?​

Problem is the many's interpretation of "Rod Of Iron"?

Many falsely believe and teach its some sort of (Rulers Scepter) "Wrong"!

A "Rod Of Iron" is a "Tool Of Destruction" that a Potter destroys clay vessels with

Jesus returns and destroy's the wicked like a Potter destroy's his vessels with a "Rod Of Iron" its that simple

Sad part is, many have been clearly shown this truth several times, and they continue to teach error

The "Rod Of Iron" is a "Tool Of Destruction" not a "Kings Scepter" as many falsely believe and teach

Psalm 2:9KJV
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

Revelation 2:27KJV
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Revelation 19:15KJV
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

 

[Truth7t7]

And why aren't ALL... the 12 tribes of Israel back in the holy lands like God Promised, with Christ's reigning there as KING?

No place in scripture does it state your claims made, the 12 tribes will be given the promised land for inheritance in the eternal kingdom in the New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem

The promised land of inheritance will be seen in the New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, as seen in Ezekiel chapters 47-48, the "Eternal Kingdom"

Ezekiel 48:29-35KJV

29 This is the land which ye shall divide by lot unto the tribes of Israel for inheritance, and these are their portions, saith the Lord God. 30 And these are the goings out of the city on the north side, four thousand and five hundred measures. 31 And the gates of the city shall be after the names of the tribes of Israel: three gates northward; one gate of Reuben, one gate of Judah, one gate of Levi. 32 And at the east side four thousand and five hundred: and three gates; and one gate of Joseph, one gate of Benjamin, one gate of Dan. 33 And at the south side four thousand and five hundred measures: and three gates; one gate of Simeon, one gate of Issachar, one gate of Zebulun. 34 At the west side four thousand and five hundred, with their three gates; one gate of Gad, one gate of Asher, one gate of Naphtali. 35 It was round about eighteen thousand measures: and the name of the city from that day shall be, The Lord is there.

Revelation 21:10-13KJV

10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, 11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; 12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: 13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.

Ezekiel Below Is (The Eternal Kingdom) Same River And Tree Of life, Same Fruit On The Tree, Same Leaves Of The Tree For Healing/Medicine

(The Eternal Kingdom)

Ezekiel 47:12KJV
12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.

(The Eternal Kingdom)

Revelation 22:1-2KJV
1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

 

[Truth7t7]

That's exactly what John is saying about Satan's restriction now from preventing the spread of the Gospel to the nations;

Your claim is "Error" (Deceive The Nations) in Rev 20:3 has absolutely nothing to do with the spreading of the gospel, but is interpreted in context in Rev 20:7-8 below "Deceive The Nations" To Battle"

Satan is "Currently" bound from "One Specific Purpose", And One Only?

"Deceive The Nations" To Battle"

The Non-Literal 1,000 Years (Revelation) 20:1-6 Are Taking Place Now In The Lords Spiritual, And Will Cease At The Future Second Coming

If A Tribulation Saint Were To Die One Day Before The Second Coming, He Enters Into The Non-Literal 1,000 Year Reign

Many That Promote Millennialism Falsely Teach, Satan Cant Be Presently Bound Because Evil Exist In The World?

Satan Is Presently Bound As Is Clearly Seen In (Revelation) 20:7-8 Below That Interprets (Deceive The Nations) Is To Battle, Not General Evil In The World Presently.

Satan Is Loosed At The End Of The Tribulation When The 6th Vial Is Poured Out As Seen In (Revelation) 16:12, The Deception Is Devils In False Miracles Going Forth To The Kings Of The Earth, To Gather Them To The Final Battle

(Revelation) 20:1-9KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

(Revelation) 16:12-14 & (Revelation) 20:7-8 Same Deception In Gathering The Nations To The Very Same Final Battle In "Parallel" Teachings Of The Same Event

(Revelation) 16:12-17KJV
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Nope! It ain't yet taking place today.

Where's my "camp of the saints" on earth I'm supposed to be gathered to by Christ, per Rev.20?

The camp of the saints is a figurative reference to the church.

Why ain't I reigning right now over ALL NATIONS with Christ's "rod of iron" He was promised to use to reign over ALL nations, per Psalms 2?

His rod of iron is used to break (destroy) the heathen (His enemies). Who is saying that is happening yet? Have you ever actually even read Psalm 2?

Psalm 2:7 I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. 8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. 9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

Does your understanding of reigning with a rod of iron involve breaking (destroying) Christ's enemies? It doesn't seem like it.

And why ain't we WITH Jesus LITERALLY for His marriage supper He promised to partake with us like the supper He did with His Apostles on earth?

Who said that is supposed to have happened yet? No one. What is the name of the straw man you're arguing with here?

And why aren't ALL... the 12 tribes of Israel back in the holy lands like God Promised, with Christ's reigning there as KING? Even half of the city of Jerusalem today is given to and controlled by Islamic Arabs who reject Jesus Christ. And even the majority of Jews there in the holy lands today still reject Jesus Christ!

Nowhere does it say that Christ will reign there. He reigns now from heaven over all of heaven and earth (Matthew 28:18). You would know that if you actually believed what He said Himself.

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

I could on and on and on with all the STUPID falseness of man's false theory of Amillennialism which does not align with God's written Word at all!

Your comments that promote your STUPID false doctrine do nothing at all to refute Amillennialism.

 

[Truth7t7]

The camp of the saints is a figurative reference to the church.

The "Saints" are the literal prophets returned in the (Two Witnesses) and they will be camped in Jerusalem bringing literal plagues upon this literal world, a replay of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt Rev 11, their tormenting plagues will draw the world to Jerusalem to kill them

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Below is the same (The Beast) making war with the (Two Witnesses/Saints) in Jerusalem, in (overcoming/killing) them

The Saints Are The Two Witnesses

Revelation 13:7KJV
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Revelation 11:7KJV
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The "Saints" are the literal prophets returned in the (Two Witnesses) and they will be camped in Jerusalem bringing literal plagues upon this literal world, a replay of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt Rev 11, their tormenting plagues will draw the world to Jerusalem to kill them

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Below is the same (The Beast) making war with the (Two Witnesses/Saints) in Jerusalem, in (overcoming/killing) them

The Saints Are The Two Witnesses

Revelation 13:7KJV
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Revelation 11:7KJV
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

The two witnesses symbolize the church. The camp of the saints symbolizes the church. It makes no sense to think that a number of people "as the sand of the sea" will all go to Jerusalem to attack two individuals. Revelation 20:7-9 is related to the increase in deception, wickedness, the mass falling away from the faith and increased persecution that will occur globally against the church before Jesus returns.

 

[Truth7t7]

The two witnesses symbolize the church.

I Strongly Disagree

The (Two Witnesses) will be literal prophets returned, they will bring literal plagues upon this literal world during the future 1260 day great tribulation, a remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt

The (Two Witnesses) will have literal physical bodies that die and they will lay dead in a literal street in Jerusalem, as a literal world watches in celebration of their deaths because they tormented the world by the literal plagues brought mentioned in Revelation 16:1-11

The (Two Witnesses) will be raised from the dead and stand upon literal physical feet and literally ascend to heaven in the sight of the world as the final hour(s) of earth's existence unfolds, ushering in the second coming of Jesus in the heavens (The End) in final judgement

To wave a "Magic Symbolic Wand" and claim that the scripture seen below represents "The Church" would be classified in the realm of Aesop's Fables IMHO

Revelation 11:3-15KJV
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I Strongly Disagree

And I strongly disagree with you. Glad we have established that.

The (Two Witnesses) will be literal prophets returned, they will bring literal plagues upon this literal world during the future 1260 day great tribulation, a remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt

The (Two Witnesses) will have literal physical bodies that die and they will lay dead in a literal street in Jerusalem, as a literal world watches in celebration of their deaths because they tormented the world by the literal plagues brought mentioned in Revelation 16:1-11

The (Two Witnesses) will be raised from the dead and stand upon literal physical feet and literally ascend to heaven in the sight of the world as the final hour(s) of earth's existence unfolds, ushering in the second coming of Jesus in the heavens (The End) in final judgement

To wave a "Magic Symbolic Wand" and claim that the scripture seen below represents "The Church" would be classified in the realm of Aesop's Fables IMHO

Revelation 11:3-15KJV
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

There's no need for you to repeat yourself. Your argument is not convincing to me whatsoever. You have unwisely decided to interpret the most highly symbolic book in the entire Bible as literally as you possibly can. That's on you. I know what you believe about this and you know what I believe. We disagree. Move on instead of repeating things that you already know I disagree with.

 

[Truth7t7]

And I strongly disagree with you. Glad we have established that.


There's no need for you to repeat yourself. Your argument is not convincing to me whatsoever. You have unwisely decided to interpret the most highly symbolic book in the entire Bible as literally as you possibly can. That's on you. I know what you believe about this and you know what I believe. We disagree. Move on instead of repeating things that you already know I disagree with.

By all means give your symbolic interpretations waiting?

Please Provide Your Symbolic Interpretation For The 3 Items Below?

1. Two Witnesses having power over all plagues?

2. Two Witnesses Dead Bodies Laying In A Street In Jerusalem?

3. A world watching and celebrating their deaths exchanging gifts?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

By all means give your symbolic interpretations waiting?

LOL. I have done that many times, so why should I think that you will pay any attention to what I'm saying now when you never have before?

Please Provide Your Symbolic Interpretation For The 3 Items Below?

1. Two Witnesses having power over all plagues?

The two witnesses are described as two candlesticks and two olive trees. What is your explanation for that, by the way? In what way can that apply to two individuals? In Revelation 1:20 it is explained that the seven candlesticks represent seven churches. So, with that in mind, how can two candlesticks represent two individuals in Revelation 11?

In Romans 11, the cultivated olive tree represents the Israel of God. The wild olive tree represents the Gentiles and Paul talks about branches from the wild olive tree being grafted in with the remaining branches in the cultivated olive tree that were not broken off, which represent Israelite believers. So, to me the two witnesses are called two olive trees because it symbolically represents Jew and Gentile believers being brought together as one in the church.

And, regarding the kind of power the two witnesses have, it's unfortunate that most in the church deny the kind of power that we have. Because Jesus has all power over all things, we have that same power at our disposal because of him. Now, the whole thing is symbolic, so this does not mean that we can literally have fire coming out of our mouths like it says regarding the two witnesses or anything like that. But, we have the power of God at our disposal when we preach the gospel and Revelation 11 is portraying that in a symbolic way.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.

2. Two Witnesses Dead Bodies Laying In A Street In Jerusalem?

It's not referring to Jerusalem. The great city, which is also called Babylon, is not Jerusalem, but is the spiritual opposite of the heavenly new Jerusalem, which is "the bride, the Lamb's wife" (Rev 21:2,9). Jesus was not crucified in Jerusalem.

John 19:20 Many of the Jews read this sign, for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city, and the sign was written in Aramaic, Latin and Greek.

Hebrews 13:12 And so Jesus also suffered outside the city gate to make the people holy through his own blood.

It's referring to people thinking that the church is dead because they have silenced the preaching of the gospel by drowning it out with their false teaching. But, they don't realize that soon after we will be caught up to meet Christ in the air and they will be destroyed when He returns.

3. A world watching and celebrating their deaths exchanging gifts?

Again, it's a symbolic representation of the world thinking they have defeated the church and silenced the gospel. But, then Jesus will come and take vengeance on them (2 Thess 1:7-10), showing that they have not won anything.