Babylon

[Jerry Huerta]

@Jerry Huerta,

It seems that you have not read all of the prophecies concerning the Land of Babylon and the fact that it was to become devastated and desolated for a period of some 2,000 or so year, which occurred some 60 years before the Roman Empire had dominion over nations and countries from about the year 60 BC in the area of the Land of Canaan. This means that the third segment of the Daniel 2 Statue prophecy which had dominion over the land of Babylon up to around 120 BC when they devasted and desolate the Lad of Babylon was the Grecian Seleucid Empire.

Neither have you understood that the Land of Babylon was remembered once more before God to begin receiving the cup of God's wrath in 1926 AD and the Nation that was given dominion over the Land of Babylon was Iraq. (Revelation 16:17ff)

As such the nation that is the fourth segment of the Daniel 2 Statue prophecy is Iraq and not the Roman Empire as you have suggested in other posts.

Holding onto the commentaries from the Reformation Period as being a solid reference source is fraught with dangers that leaves one face covered with brown stuff.

The above can be confirmed from recent historical records.

You should read Walvoord on the issue. He stated that the prophecy on the devastation of Babylon couldn’t be “literally fulfilled,”

As far as the historic fulfillment is concerned, it is obvious from both Scripture and history that these verses have not been literally fulfilled. The city of Babylon continued to flourish after the Medes conquered it, and though its glory dwindled, especially after the control of the Medes and Persians ended in 323 b.c., the city continued in some form or substance until a.d. 1000 and did not experience a sudden termination such as is anticipated in this prophecy. 1 ​

Such an acknowledgment concedes the fulfillment can’t be literal, which means it’s interpretation must be cryptic and affirms the segments of Daniel 2 conform to commentaries from the Reformation period, which I would trust more than the contemporary doctrines in a time in which the Church thinks it “rich and increased with goods.”

As to the relevance of goddess worship, in myth, the lewd Babylonian goddess Ishtar (Inanna was her Sumerian counterpart) was depicted riding a beast. The Babylonian goddess, Inanna/Ishtar, was ultimately used to promote the societal acceptance that empire could be obtained by exploiting their religion, raising the merchants’ status, and facilitating war; the symbolism was a sophisticated ideology. The parallelism between Ishtar and liberal or apostate Protestantism highlights imperial Protestant’s marketing empire through religion while raising the merchant’s status and, ultimately, facilitating war.

 

[covenantee]

Obviously, preterists pay no attention to grammar and syntax.

Faux historicists pay no attention to anything.

Daniel 2:44 states, “in the days of these kings,” meaning more than one; Tiberius was “one” king of the iron legs, so it can’t mean in the time of Tiberius.

More cultic semantic ignorance. Tiberius ruled in "the days of these kings"; specifically, in the days of the kings of the Roman empire.

The kings of the iron legs ruled sequentially, not simultaneously.

So did the kings of the four empires, the last of which was the Roman empire, during which Christ set up the Kingdom of God during the reign of Tiberius.

The passage in Daniel requires “kings that rule simultaneously,” so it can’t mean in the time of the Roman Empire.

You require "dispenish" delusion. Untenable Scripturally, historically, grammatically, and semantically.

Mark 1
14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

If Christ did not issue that declaration in the time of the Roman Empire, then in the time of what empire did He issue that declaration?

The feet of the image represent when the Roman Empire is divided at its fall, not during the time of Tiberius, when it’s at its height.

Christ didn't set up His Kingdom during the fall of the Roman Empire. He set up His Kingdom during the reign of Tiberius.

 

[covenantee]

I see you continue to omit that the prophets foretold the kingdom of God,

Of course they did. Why did you omit this?

Romans 1
1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)

Now tell us why you suddenly abandoned Zechariah 13:7.

 

[covenantee]

I guess that my evidence on the kingdom of God is getting to you. My response is that not all preterists agree on the seven kings in Revelation 17, so why would I have to agree with what every Historicists has written. I only have to agree with the foundation through the hermeneutics, that the little horn rises out of the fallen Roman Empire, and that in specific apocalyptic prophecy a day-stands-for-a-year.

What evidence is that?

Thanks for confirming that you're utterly incapable of identifying a single recognized Reformation historicist who corroborates your views on Daniel 2:44.

Not one.

You're a faux historicist.

So where does that leave you?

Just another cult on parade.

 

[CTK]

For what it is worth.... The phrase in 2:44 does not represent 10 kingdoms, nations, kings, that will be found on / in the earth, as we expect to see them. In 2:44, " in the days of these kings," they refer to God 10 commandments. Intially, God will show His 10 as 10 toes which are symbolically held captive at the end of the iron feet (kingdom or Rome), along with the "clay" which represents the Jewish people.This reflects, not only their physical captivity within the 4th kingdom, but their failure to obey God and go out into the world and preach the One true God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and His 10 commandments to the Gentile world. Symbolically, Jesus, The Stone, was sent by God to strike the feet of the iron kingdom (feet only, other not the toes), and symbiotically break into piecess the iron and c;lay elements only. As a result, the Jews (clay) who would accept Jesus as their Messiah would be identified as "pottery clay." Those who hardened their hearts and rejected Him, would be identified as "cereamic clay." Additionally, after the cross, the "pottery clay" would go out into the world preaching the Good news, which of course would include His 10 commandments (once symbolized as toes, but now will be symbolized as 10 horns (because of their power to transform lives). This was / is God's plan of salvation for the Jews and the Gentiles. This will ensure His Word and His Testimony would no longer kept within the Jewish people. As the church grew over the coming 400 years, so did the Word of God. But His church would be appropriated by those who sought to obtain control and power over this church. Intially, these folks began as Gentile followers of Jesus, but would become the head of the church and rise to the top. Here, they became bishops of the church - extremely powerful and revered. The most powerful bishop would be from Rome and he would eventually head the church and wield these 10 horns as weapons over all people and nations. They would sit atop the church, and God would now refer to them as 10 kings - and, in the hands of this "bishop" (little horn), He would refer to them as 10 kings. This is the meaning of 2:44 - "in the days of these kings." God is linking these "10 kings in chapter 7 back to chapter 2.

And for this to happen, and it took me no less than a few months to understand, that 2:34 was not an end time event, but was the cause and effect of the Messiah striking the feet in 2:34. He did not destroy the image but symbolically broke into pieces the two elements only. Without this understanding, much of the later chapters in Daniel could not be interpreted.





Verse 24a-the ten horns shall arise from this kingdom

Daniel 7:24a marks an important shift in the understanding of the ten horns. Up until this point, Daniel has seen these horns growing from the fourth beast, but now, Gabriel clarifies their identity: they are ten kings. This is the first time these ten horns are explicitly called kings, and this new designation raises a critical question—why are they now being recognized as kings, and what does this reveal about God’s plan?

To fully grasp their significance, we must return to Chapter 2 and Nebuchadnezzar’s metal-man image, where God first described the fourth kingdom—Pagan Rome—as a kingdom of iron. This kingdom, unlike its predecessors, would not simply rise and fall. Instead, it would undergo a unique transformation. The iron feet of Rome, which represented its rule over both the Jewish nation and the Gentile world, contained ten toes and clay—symbolizing both Roman dominion and the presence of God’s people under that rule.

In Daniel 2:34, the Stone (Messiah) strikes the feet of the image, breaking apart the iron and the clay – within the feet. However, it does not directly strike the toes. This distinction is crucial.

• The clay represented God’s people, who had been under Roman rule.
• The Stone’s impact symbolized the crucifixion of Jesus, which would bring about a great separation within the Jewish people.
• Those who accepted Jesus as their Messiah were identified as “pottery clay”, moldable in the hands of the Potter (Jeremiah 18:6).
• Those who rejected Him were identified as “ceramic clay”, hardened and unable to be shaped.

After the crucifixion, those who accepted the Messiah would go out into the world, preaching the Good News. The Ten Commandments, once entrusted to the Jewish nation, would now be proclaimed to the Gentiles—just as the ten toes were now symbolically free from Roman captivity.

When we move from Daniel 2 to Daniel 7, God reveals something new about these ten toes—they do not remain toes, but instead become ten horns (Daniel 7:7-8). This transformation is not accidental. In Chapter 2, the ten toes symbolized God’s law within the Jewish nation. But now, in Chapter 7, these same ten elements are described as “horns” or “powers”, indicating authority. And now, in Daniel 7:24, Gabriel further clarifies their status:

“The ten horns are ten kings who shall arise from this kingdom.”​

The Ten Commandments, which were God’s moral law, have transitioned to the top of the 4th beast, and would be redefined by the little horn. They are no longer just a guiding force—they have been elevated to the status of kings. Like kings, they must be obeyed—but not according to God’s original intent. Instead, the little horn (Papal Rome) would ensure that the commandments were worshipped in the way he determined.

When Pagan Rome fell in 476 AD, the Christian Church, which had already gained immense power, stepped into the void. The Bishop of Rome—soon to be the Pope—claimed authority over both religious and secular matters, thus marking the full transition from Pagan Rome to Papal Rome.

As Papal Rome grew in influence, it did not stand alone. Alongside it, the Ten Commandments themselves were altered, reshaped to fit the doctrines of the Church. The original moral law—once a guiding light for salvation—was now transformed into a system of enforced worship dictated by religious authority.

Later in verse 25, Daniel will reveal the final transformation of these ten toes, horns, and kings. Eventually, God will reclaim them, and they will be identified as the ten saints of the Most High. But for now, in Daniel 7:24a, these ten horns have become kings under Papal Rome’s rule, enforcing laws that have been twisted from their original divine purpose. This transformation is significant because it reveals that Papal Rome’s power was not just political—it was spiritual. Just as a king demands obedience, so too did the little horn enforce its own version of God’s commandments upon the world. Over time, the little horn would:

Replace biblical truth with human traditions.

Elevate the power of the Church above the Word of God.

Persecute those who refused to conform.

Thus, the ten horns becoming ten kings symbolizes how the teachings of God were distorted under the influence of Papal Rome. Rather than being God’s moral law, they were now used as instruments of control—and those who challenged the little horn’s authority would suffer the consequences.

Although Daniel would not have the ability to understand the meaning of this symbolism, this was still a deeply troubling revelation. This is why Daniel 7:24a marks a turning point—it confirms that the fourth beast’s final phase would be a kingdom unlike any before it, one that would redefine worship, authority, and obedience in ways never before seen in history.

 

[covenantee]

For what it is worth.... The phrase in 2:44 does not represent 10 kingdoms, nations, kings, that will be found on / in the earth, as we expect to see them. In 2:44, " in the days of these kings," they refer to God 10 commandments. Intially, God will show His 10 as 10 toes which are symbolically held captive at the end of the iron feet (kingdom or Rome), along with the "clay" which represents the Jewish people.This reflects, not only their physical captivity within the 4th kingdom, but their failure to obey God and go out into the world and preach the One true God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and His 10 commandments to the Gentile world. Symbolically, Jesus, The Stone, was sent by God to strike the feet of the iron kingdom (feet only, other not the toes), and symbiotically break into piecess the iron and c;lay elements only. As a result, the Jews (clay) who would accept Jesus as their Messiah would be identified as "pottery clay." Those who hardened their hearts and rejected Him, would be identified as "cereamic clay." Additionally, after the cross, the "pottery clay" would go out into the world preaching the Good news, which of course would include His 10 commandments (once symbolized as toes, but now will be symbolized as 10 horns (because of their power to transform lives). This was / is God's plan of salvation for the Jews and the Gentiles. This will ensure His Word and His Testimony would no longer kept within the Jewish people. As the church grew over the coming 400 years, so did the Word of God. But His church would be appropriated by those who sought to obtain control and power over this church. Intially, these folks began as Gentile followers of Jesus, but would become the head of the church and rise to the top. Here, they became bishops of the church - extremely powerful and revered. The most powerful bishop would be from Rome and he would eventually head the church and wield these 10 horns as weapons over all people and nations. They would sit atop the church, and God would now refer to them as 10 kings - and, in the hands of this "bishop" (little horn), He would refer to them as 10 kings. This is the meaning of 2:44 - "in the days of these kings." God is linking these "10 kings in chapter 7 back to chapter 2.

And for this to happen, and it took me no less than a few months to understand, that 2:34 was not an end time event, but was the cause and effect of the Messiah striking the feet in 2:34. He did not destroy the image but symbolically broke into pieces the two elements only. Without this understanding, much of the later chapters in Daniel could not be interpreted.





Verse 24a-the ten horns shall arise from this kingdom

Daniel 7:24a marks an important shift in the understanding of the ten horns. Up until this point, Daniel has seen these horns growing from the fourth beast, but now, Gabriel clarifies their identity: they are ten kings. This is the first time these ten horns are explicitly called kings, and this new designation raises a critical question—why are they now being recognized as kings, and what does this reveal about God’s plan?

To fully grasp their significance, we must return to Chapter 2 and Nebuchadnezzar’s metal-man image, where God first described the fourth kingdom—Pagan Rome—as a kingdom of iron. This kingdom, unlike its predecessors, would not simply rise and fall. Instead, it would undergo a unique transformation. The iron feet of Rome, which represented its rule over both the Jewish nation and the Gentile world, contained ten toes and clay—symbolizing both Roman dominion and the presence of God’s people under that rule.

In Daniel 2:34, the Stone (Messiah) strikes the feet of the image, breaking apart the iron and the clay – within the feet. However, it does not directly strike the toes. This distinction is crucial.

• The clay represented God’s people, who had been under Roman rule.
• The Stone’s impact symbolized the crucifixion of Jesus, which would bring about a great separation within the Jewish people.
• Those who accepted Jesus as their Messiah were identified as “pottery clay”, moldable in the hands of the Potter (Jeremiah 18:6).
• Those who rejected Him were identified as “ceramic clay”, hardened and unable to be shaped.

After the crucifixion, those who accepted the Messiah would go out into the world, preaching the Good News. The Ten Commandments, once entrusted to the Jewish nation, would now be proclaimed to the Gentiles—just as the ten toes were now symbolically free from Roman captivity.

When we move from Daniel 2 to Daniel 7, God reveals something new about these ten toes—they do not remain toes, but instead become ten horns (Daniel 7:7-8). This transformation is not accidental. In Chapter 2, the ten toes symbolized God’s law within the Jewish nation. But now, in Chapter 7, these same ten elements are described as “horns” or “powers”, indicating authority. And now, in Daniel 7:24, Gabriel further clarifies their status:

“The ten horns are ten kings who shall arise from this kingdom.”​

The Ten Commandments, which were God’s moral law, have transitioned to the top of the 4th beast, and would be redefined by the little horn. They are no longer just a guiding force—they have been elevated to the status of kings. Like kings, they must be obeyed—but not according to God’s original intent. Instead, the little horn (Papal Rome) would ensure that the commandments were worshipped in the way he determined.

When Pagan Rome fell in 476 AD, the Christian Church, which had already gained immense power, stepped into the void. The Bishop of Rome—soon to be the Pope—claimed authority over both religious and secular matters, thus marking the full transition from Pagan Rome to Papal Rome.

As Papal Rome grew in influence, it did not stand alone. Alongside it, the Ten Commandments themselves were altered, reshaped to fit the doctrines of the Church. The original moral law—once a guiding light for salvation—was now transformed into a system of enforced worship dictated by religious authority.

Later in verse 25, Daniel will reveal the final transformation of these ten toes, horns, and kings. Eventually, God will reclaim them, and they will be identified as the ten saints of the Most High. But for now, in Daniel 7:24a, these ten horns have become kings under Papal Rome’s rule, enforcing laws that have been twisted from their original divine purpose. This transformation is significant because it reveals that Papal Rome’s power was not just political—it was spiritual. Just as a king demands obedience, so too did the little horn enforce its own version of God’s commandments upon the world. Over time, the little horn would:

Replace biblical truth with human traditions.

Elevate the power of the Church above the Word of God.

Persecute those who refused to conform.

Thus, the ten horns becoming ten kings symbolizes how the teachings of God were distorted under the influence of Papal Rome. Rather than being God’s moral law, they were now used as instruments of control—and those who challenged the little horn’s authority would suffer the consequences.

Although Daniel would not have the ability to understand the meaning of this symbolism, this was still a deeply troubling revelation. This is why Daniel 7:24a marks a turning point—it confirms that the fourth beast’s final phase would be a kingdom unlike any before it, one that would redefine worship, authority, and obedience in ways never before seen in history.

Bro, in the days of what king(s) did God set up His Kingdom as declared in Daniel 2:44?

 

[CTK]

Bro, in the days of what king(s) did God set up His Kingdom as declared in Daniel 2:44?

"In the days of these kings." God is telling us that Jesus would set up His kingdom when He came to earth to begin His ministry, and of course, sacrifice His life for "many," These 10 toes (10 commandments) were given to Moses some 1500 years earlier. Meaning, they existed both before and after the cross. Jesus would certainly arrive before the Jews were destroyed in 70 AD - thus, His kingdom was "set up" during the time His 10 commandments were in the hands of His people.

 

[covenantee]

"In the days of these kings." God is telling us that Jesus would set up His kingdom when He came to earth to begin His ministry, and of course, sacrifice His life for "many," These 10 toes (10 commandments) were given to Moses some 1500 years earlier. Meaning, they existed both before and after the cross. Jesus would certainly arrive before the Jews were destroyed in 70 AD - thus, His kingdom was "set up" during the time His 10 commandments were in the hands of His people.

Mark 1
14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Did this declaration by Jesus during Tiberius' reign mark the beginning of the fulfillment of Daniel 2:44?

 

[ewq1938]

The city of Jerusalem extends beyond it's walls. Many cities had a protective wall for the main part, but the full extent of the city was past the walls.

 

[CTK]

Mark 1
14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Did this declaration by Jesus during Tiberius' reign mark the beginning of the fulfillment of Daniel 2:44?

I don't believe so. God is revealing His kingdom will take place during the"days of these kings." He does not or is not concerned about the secualr kings of the world. They are not important in this prophecy. Remember, should you accept the interpretation of 2:34 (and I pray you do), the purpose of His striking the feet (not the toes) was to separate or break into pieces His people and His 10 commandments from their captivity.... both from the Jewish people and the power of Rome. This is the important prophecy.... These "king's" symbolized as toes will be revealed in chapter 7 as "kings."

 

[Jay Ross]

You should read Walvoord on the issue. He stated that the prophecy on the devastation of Babylon couldn’t be “literally fulfilled,”

As far as the historic fulfillment is concerned, it is obvious from both Scripture and history that these verses have not been literally fulfilled. The city of Babylon continued to flourish after the Medes conquered it, and though its glory dwindled, especially after the control of the Medes and Persians ended in 323 b.c., the city continued in some form or substance until a.d. 1000 and did not experience a sudden termination such as is anticipated in this prophecy. 1​

Such an acknowledgment concedes the fulfillment can’t be literal, which means it’s interpretation must be cryptic and affirms the segments of Daniel 2 conform to commentaries from the Reformation period, which I would trust more than the contemporary doctrines in a time in which the Church thinks it “rich and increased with goods.”

As to the relevance of goddess worship, in myth, the lewd Babylonian goddess Ishtar (Inanna was her Sumerian counterpart) was depicted riding a beast. The Babylonian goddess, Inanna/Ishtar, was ultimately used to promote the societal acceptance that empire could be obtained by exploiting their religion, raising the merchants’ status, and facilitating war; the symbolism was a sophisticated ideology. The parallelism between Ishtar and liberal or apostate Protestantism highlights imperial Protestant’s marketing empire through religion while raising the merchant’s status and, ultimately, facilitating war.

I went one better and read the actual scriptures which speaks of the events concerning Babylon, and as far as I am concerned, the scriptures wins, hands down, on anything that Walvoord may have penned on this subject.

Babylon was remembered once more before God to receive His cup of wrath when Both Brittian and France divided up the Otterman Empire after WW1.

But this fulfilment of the seventh Bowl Judgement is being ignored by you.

PS: - Sorry for not responding sooner, but the I have lost power and the weather has thrown me a curve ball to deal with until today.

 

[covenantee]

I don't believe so. God is revealing His kingdom will take place during the"days of these kings." He does not or is not concerned about the secualr kings of the world. They are not important in this prophecy. Remember, should you accept the interpretation of 2:34 (and I pray you do), the purpose of His striking the feet (not the toes) was to separate or break into pieces His people and His 10 commandments from their captivity.... both from the Jewish people and the power of Rome. This is the important prophecy.... These "king's" symbolized as toes will be revealed in chapter 7 as "kings."

Why would the explicit announcement of the Kingdom of God in Mark 1:14,15 not be the fulfillment of the explicit prophecy of the Kingdom of God in Daniel 2:44?

 

[CTK]

Why would the explicit announcement of the Kingdom of God in Mark 1:14,15 not be the fulfillment of the explicit prophecy of the Kingdom of God in Daniel 2:44?

14Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel [f]of the kingdom of God, 15and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God [g]is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.”

I am not sure why these two verses are influencing your interpretation of 2:44.... Verse 2:44 is telling us when the kingdom of God will occur / begin -- that is during the time of the coming of the Messiah.

Verses in Mark are coming from the mouth of Jesus proclaiming that His kingdom is here and now in His person. They don't conflict....
God is telling us 700 years earlier the Messiah will come and set up His kingdom during the time of these kings...... these "kings" will be soon made available to the Gentile world.

Sorry, I don't see these two verses either conflicting or having them speak to the same prophecy.

 

[covenantee]

14Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel [f]of the kingdom of God, 15and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God [g]is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.”

I am not sure why these two verses are influencing your interpretation of 2:44.... Verse 2:44 is telling us when the kingdom of God will occur / begin -- that is during the time of the coming of the Messiah.

Verses in Mark are coming from the mouth of Jesus proclaiming that His kingdom is here and now in His person. They don't conflict....
God is telling us 700 years earlier the Messiah will come and set up His kingdom during the time of these kings...... these "kings" will be soon made available to the Gentile world.

Sorry, I don't see these two verses either conflicting or having them speak to the same prophecy.

Why do Roman empire kings, e.g. Tiberius, not qualify as some of "these kings"?

 

[CTK]

Why do Roman empire kings, e.g. Tiberius, not qualify as some of "these kings"?

This is not about the Caesar's or the Roman emporers or secular kingdoms. Daniel is writing about the coming Messiah and those things that are related to both the restoration of His people back to Jerusalem, and a greater prophecy about the salvation and restoration of mankind.

As I mentioned, God is coming to establish His kingdom on earth and the two important events are to send His people - those Jews who would accept Him as their Messiah to preach the Good news to the world. This, of course, is His 10 Words. The book of Daniel is not about earthly kingdoms or kings. God would indeed bring forward 4 and only 4 kingdoms WITHIN His plan of salvation and restoration. Daniel 2 establishes the "structure" and the restrictions / borders and boundaries where His prophecies must be found to occur within them. The 4 kingdoms are not the story... the story will take place within these 4 kingdoms. I hope this makes sense. Daniel has been largely interpreted as a history book - all commentaries look to see how these events / kings / kingdoms, etc., match up to our history books. But Daniel does not follow our history books. God will use those kingdoms before His coming to reveal His first coming and His plan.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Have you never read this passage,

Daniel 2
44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Instead of addressing what I said in my post and what is written in Acts 2:29-36, you try to change the subject. How about you actually address Acts 2:29-36 first before bringing up another passage? You probably expect me to address the Daniel 2 passage and your comments, but you don't have to address the passage I used to support my view and my comments? I'm not interested in a one way discussion.

 

[covenantee]

As I mentioned, God is coming to establish His kingdom on earth

So He didn't establish it when Jesus announced it in Mark 1:14,15?

 

[covenantee]

Instead of addressing what I said in my post and what is written in Acts 2:29-36, you try to change the subject. How about you actually address Acts 2:29-36 first before bringing up another passage? You probably expect me to address the Daniel 2 passage and your comments, but you don't have to address the passage I used to support my view and my comments? I'm not interested in a one way discussion.

This guy is a trademark cultist trying to pass himself off as an historicist.

There's a continual stream of nonsense emanating therefrom.

 

[CTK]

So He didn't establish it when Jesus announced it in Mark 1:14,15?

Yes, Jesus established His earthly kingdom at His first coming. Verse 2:44 is predicting His arrival in the 4th kingdom and tying everthing together in Daniel. He is showing the progression or transition of His 10 commandments as they come out of the Jewish nation, which was help captive within pagan Rome and how they rise out of the Jewish nation (chapter 7) and will be preached to the Gentile world. This is when God purposely identifies them as "horns" or powers because they will transfor lives. They will be accepted by the Gentiles along with the Testimony of Jesus. But, unfortunately, the Christian church will become dominated by Gentiles, they will remove the Jews from His church and the Gentiles will establish a pagan Roman type hierarchy with different levels of individuals having different levels of power. The most powerful group would rise as bishops and be given reverence and immense powers. This is how the little horn came to be... from WITHIN His church. When pagan Rome was slain (7:11), the door for the church to begin to take over both religious and secular control was inevitable.

The bishiop of Rome won out over the other 3 major christian centers - bishops of Alexandria, Jerusalem and Antioch - they each wanted to rule over the church but the bishop of Rome would be the strongest and he held the church over the largest city in the Empire. He became the pope after a few years - self proclaimed I am sure.

 

[CTK]

So He didn't establish it when Jesus announced it in Mark 1:14,15?

:If you do not mind, earlier I responded with a narrative from my commetary on Daniel - verse 7:24a. Here is another narrative for verse 7:25b.....I hope it makes sense to you....

Verse 25b–Shall persecute the saints of the Most High

Daniel 7:25 offers us a powerful glimpse into a great spiritual struggle—one that does not take place solely in the rise and fall of earthly kingdoms but also in the hearts and minds of all people. To truly understand its meaning, we must look beyond political rulers and empires and instead focus on the deeper spiritual reality that unfolds throughout history. The vision Daniel received was not just about kings and nations, but about God’s divine law, His commandments, and the battle over truth and worship.

Long before this verse, these ten symbols—ten toes, ten horns, and ten kings—appear in different forms, each revealing another layer of God’s plan. In Nebuchadnezzar’s dream in Daniel 2, the ten toes were hidden within the iron and clay, representing a time when God’s law was still confined within the Jewish nation. The iron symbolized the strength of Rome, while the clay represented the Jewish people under Roman rule, and the toes represented God’s 10 commandments. But this was never meant to last—God’s Word was always meant to go out into all the world. The turning point came when the Stone, representing the Messiah, struck the feet of the image (2:34), breaking apart the iron and clay elements only, and freeing both His people and His commandments to be carried into the nations.

In Daniel 7, those ten toes reappear, but now they are ten horns rising from out of the fourth beast, pagan Rome. This marks a new era, as Christ’s crucifixion and resurrection opened the way for His followers to spread God’s law and His truth beyond Israel. The ten horns, now symbolizing God’s power and authority to change the hearts of men are preached to the Gentile world and they begin to take root within the Roman Empire. These commandments are not just rules; they are living words that offer guidance, freedom, and salvation.

Not everyone welcomes the spread of God's truth. After the fall of Pagan Rome (7:11), a new power rises in its place. The Church, now aligned with the strength of the ten horns, ascends to reign over the remnants of the empire.

These ten horns, which once symbolized the spread of God's commandments throughout the world, now take on a new identity as ten kings, positioned at the very top of the fourth beast—Papal Rome. As these ten kings take their place, another figure emerges among them. The powerful bishop of Rome rises to prominence, no longer just a religious leader but one who claims dominion over both the Church and the state. This is the little horn, an entity unlike any other. Unlike the kings before him, he does not rule with swords and armies alone. His weapon is far more insidious—he does not seek to abolish God's Word but to alter it, twist it, and reshape its meaning to serve his own ends.

God, in His wisdom, does not allow His commandments to be erased from the world. They will always endure. However, He does permit them to be manipulated, repurposed into tools of oppression rather than instruments of righteousness. Where they were once given to lead people to truth and salvation, the little horn distorts them, enforcing doctrines and traditions that elevate his authority above God's own Word. The very commandments meant to set people free are now used to bind them in servitude, their original purpose obscured by human ambition and deception.

This is the defining feature of the fourth beast’s transformation. No longer does it conquer through brute force alone; it now wields power over the soul, dictating not just laws but beliefs. The little horn does not merely demand obedience—he demands worship, seeking to stand in the place of God Himself. This is where the true battle lies—not between earthly kingdoms, but between two opposing ways of worship. One is God’s way, a kingdom based on love, freedom, and obedience to His commandments. The other is the little horn’s way, a system that corrupts God’s truth to gain power and suppress the faithful.

Throughout history, God’s commandments have remained constant. They were once hidden within the Jewish nation, but after the coming of Christ, they were set free to spread across the world. His followers carried them forward, teaching His truth and proclaiming His kingdom. But in opposition to this, the little horn arose, working to distort and manipulate God’s Word. Though it could not erase His commandments, it sought to change them, replacing truth with human traditions and using its authority to lead people astray. Yet despite the efforts of the little horn, God’s law remains unshaken. His commandments are more than laws; they are His eternal Word, the foundation of His kingdom, and His gift to humanity. Though they have been challenged, they will never be destroyed.