Get back to everyone when you study the Hebrew and Greek of those terms which you quote in English.
How the idea of Immortal Soul got into the Church
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LuxMundi
Active Member
I have and that's why the scriptural verses I cited are linked to Hebrew and Koine Greek.
You didn't link them, and you didn't type in the Greek or Hebrew. But you did use Latin.
LuxMundi
Active Member
You have to click on the scriptural verses, and it'll either take you to the verse in Hebrew-English, or the Koine Greek-English.
Last edited:
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Immortal…eternal…forever…never ending…Let us mince words.
Is it soul or spirit?
What does the soul or spirit look like?
Where in the body does the soul reside?
What is the soul or spirit made of?
How does soul or spirit move?
Does a soul or spirit have eyes or the capability of sight?
If a child dies and goes to Heaven…do they grow up?
Or is there a difference between a child and a grownup in Heaven?
What does the soul or spirit do in Heaven?
Does the soul or spirit have the sense of touch in Heaven?
Does the soul or spirit eat food in Heaven?
What does love mean in Heaven?
Can the soul or spirit play baseball in Heaven?
The humor in this is that most of these questions occurred around a campfire at Bible Camp in a conversation with a Southern Baptist preacher….But it does not matter if I was in the United States or one of universities in five countries that I attended or visited, these questions are just as unanswerable for certain.
But it is my opinion that everyone has a soul or spirit and that soul or spirit exists in Heaven or Hell forever, but there is a difference between the word exist forever and immortal. But then what is the general consciences.
Opinion 1
The human soul or spirit is that part of a man or woman that is not physical. The soul is central to the personhood of a human being. It is the “true self”—who a person really is. The soul is the center of life, feeling, thought, and action in a human being.
Opinion 2
Without a doubt the human soul is immortal. That is, the soul is not subject to death. Once created, the soul never ceases to exist but is everlasting. The soul is spiritual and thus has the quality of immortality. In contrast, the body is physical; the earthly body we now possess is subject to death.
The immortality of the soul is clearly seen in many places in Scripture. For example, in Psalm 23:6 David says, “I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever.” In Ecclesiastes 12:7 the Preacher mentions two things that happen at death: “The dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.” In 2 Corinthians 5:8 Paul says that to be “absent from the body” is to be “present with the Lord” (NKJV). All these passages indicate that the soul is immortal.
Opinion 3
Over and over again in Scripture, people are referred to as "souls" (Exodus 31:14; Proverbs 11:30). The human soul is that part of a person that is eternal—the part that lives on after the body dies and decays. Jesus said we were not to fear men, who can only kill the body, but not the soul (Matthew 10:28).
There is some confusion as to whether the human spirit and the human soul are the same thing, or different in some way. The Bible is not entirely clear on this point, but there is evidence of at least some subtle differences. The spirit is described more in terms of force (Numbers 14:24), while the soul seems to be a static entity. Again, there is very little in the Bible to tell us what differences exist between the two. However, there is indication that they are separate entities (1 Thessalonians 5:23; Hebrews 4:12).
Opinion 4
Both the Old and New Testaments teach that humans have an immaterial part that will last forever. Thus, we should not see life and death as existence and non-existence. As Dr. Frank Turek often says, “When we die, we don’t cease to exist; we simply change location.” Death is a transition to a different mode of existence. Therefore, life and death should be viewed as two different states of existence.
Is it soul or spirit?
What does the soul or spirit look like?
Where in the body does the soul reside?
What is the soul or spirit made of?
How does soul or spirit move?
Does a soul or spirit have eyes or the capability of sight?
If a child dies and goes to Heaven…do they grow up?
Or is there a difference between a child and a grownup in Heaven?
What does the soul or spirit do in Heaven?
Does the soul or spirit have the sense of touch in Heaven?
Does the soul or spirit eat food in Heaven?
What does love mean in Heaven?
Can the soul or spirit play baseball in Heaven?
The humor in this is that most of these questions occurred around a campfire at Bible Camp in a conversation with a Southern Baptist preacher….But it does not matter if I was in the United States or one of universities in five countries that I attended or visited, these questions are just as unanswerable for certain.
But it is my opinion that everyone has a soul or spirit and that soul or spirit exists in Heaven or Hell forever, but there is a difference between the word exist forever and immortal. But then what is the general consciences.
Opinion 1
The human soul or spirit is that part of a man or woman that is not physical. The soul is central to the personhood of a human being. It is the “true self”—who a person really is. The soul is the center of life, feeling, thought, and action in a human being.
Opinion 2
Without a doubt the human soul is immortal. That is, the soul is not subject to death. Once created, the soul never ceases to exist but is everlasting. The soul is spiritual and thus has the quality of immortality. In contrast, the body is physical; the earthly body we now possess is subject to death.
The immortality of the soul is clearly seen in many places in Scripture. For example, in Psalm 23:6 David says, “I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever.” In Ecclesiastes 12:7 the Preacher mentions two things that happen at death: “The dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.” In 2 Corinthians 5:8 Paul says that to be “absent from the body” is to be “present with the Lord” (NKJV). All these passages indicate that the soul is immortal.
Opinion 3
Over and over again in Scripture, people are referred to as "souls" (Exodus 31:14; Proverbs 11:30). The human soul is that part of a person that is eternal—the part that lives on after the body dies and decays. Jesus said we were not to fear men, who can only kill the body, but not the soul (Matthew 10:28).
There is some confusion as to whether the human spirit and the human soul are the same thing, or different in some way. The Bible is not entirely clear on this point, but there is evidence of at least some subtle differences. The spirit is described more in terms of force (Numbers 14:24), while the soul seems to be a static entity. Again, there is very little in the Bible to tell us what differences exist between the two. However, there is indication that they are separate entities (1 Thessalonians 5:23; Hebrews 4:12).
Opinion 4
Both the Old and New Testaments teach that humans have an immaterial part that will last forever. Thus, we should not see life and death as existence and non-existence. As Dr. Frank Turek often says, “When we die, we don’t cease to exist; we simply change location.” Death is a transition to a different mode of existence. Therefore, life and death should be viewed as two different states of existence.
Taken
Well-Known Member
A created human body is not “Given” an immortal soul.
However, a human man, “Given” Gods Gift of Salvation WILL Keep the mans Soul Alive Forever.
You started with a mans “natural” mortal Body…moved to speaking of the Soul, then back to the Body, as if The Body and Soul ARE the same thing…
They are two distinct things, with one Identifying Name.
Man is the Body, it’s Life is BLOOD.
All SOULS belong to God.
The Life of the Soul, is Gods BREATH.
A saved Soul “continues” “keeping” Gods BREATH and the Soul.
An UN-saved soul Life, will return to God, and the “lifeless” soul Destroyed and Forgotten.
Mortal “means” subject to Death, must Die.
That does apply to mans Form (body).
Immortal means”not subject to Death, (can not Die).
Souls, begin “Spiritual dead.”
A saved “soul” can not Die.
A mans “natural spirit” Shall die.
A mans “born again spirit” can not die.
That does not apply to ALL souls.
Some souls shall never Die….Because it received Gods Gift of Salvation.
(Body’s experience physical Death.)
Any Separation From God, whether the body, soul, spirit of a man is (alive or bodily dead)…
Is a “Spiritual Death”.
Point…
Yes, some souls Shall remain Alive Forever, others Shall not.
UN-saved souls, Shall have “their” Lifeless UN saved soul and Dead Body's Destroyed (after Judgement).
They, whose Body’s Are Raised “in glory”. (Without Sin)…will Require their Living Soul “IN” their (glorified) body, to maintain their Ability…to Hear, See, Taste, Speak, Smell, Feel Touch…same as Now of a soul IN a natural mortal Body.
Glory to God,
Taken
Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
Hilarious and not in a good way... if man does NOT have an immortal soul then man was not created in God's image meaning... God lied. Sadly the SDA teaches numerous false doctrines being a cult and all.
ALL people.... will in fact be awake and conscience for all eternity, it's just a matter of where they will be spending eternity
Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
No, God's Word does not teach that I'm being held accountable for the sin Adam committed or the sins committed by any others.
God's Word specifically teaches that we all have sinned ourselves.... and that is what we are accountable for, the sins WE have committed.
Deuteronomy 24:16
The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin
Deuteronomy 1:39
Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it.
2 Kings 14:6
But the sons of the slayers he did not put to death, according to what is written in the book of the Law of Moses, as the Lord commanded, saying, “The fathers shall not be put to death for the sons, nor the sons be put to death for the fathers; but each shall be put to death for his own sin
Ezekiel 18:19
Yet you say, ‘Why should the son not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity?’ When the son has practiced justice and righteousness and has observed all My statutes and done them, he shall surely live
Ezekiel 18:20
The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself
We were NOT born with a sin nature!
When God placed a person in the mother's womb... the Lord did not put sin in to them making them to be born as sinners.
What some are referring to as "sin nature" are the habits we all take on as a result of living in a world full of sin and darkness and habitually they become full of "sin nature" because they live in sin continually walking after the flesh and not after the Spirit.
God did not make anyone to be a sinner when He created them... but satan claims He did
Romans 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
We all became sinners AFTER we arrived on Club Earth so God is holding each person accountable for their own sin, not for Adam's sin
Romans 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Here again.... death (separation from God) passed upon all men because all have sinned
Davy
Well-Known Member
Then you haven't read Apostle Paul's Epistles in The New Testament...
Rom 5:12-19
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
KJV
Depends on context. In the context of Christ's ressurrection He gave life to all men, I Cor 15:21-22. At the resurrection all men will receive immortality and incorruptibility I Cor 15: 52-53. As far as definitions go, immortal is also eternal.
The other context where it is used is when the life with Christ is mentioned it means eternal death. The opposite is eternal death. Both are relative to one's relationship with Christ or a lack thereof.
Sin is not commutable, Rom 5:12 clearly states that death is what is passed to all men. I Cor 15:20-22. Rom 5:18 reinforces this concept.
Your misinterpretation makes Christ a sinner if sin is passed through our human nature.
Christ took on our human nature in every respect. Christ came to defeat death.
Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
You missed the part that said we have all sinned our own sins... and that what Adam did resulted in sin being in the world and the opportunity to sin came upon all people... and they all sinned so we are all being held accountable for our own sin, not Adam's sin
And you missed in God's Word where God said the children are not responsible for the sins of the fathers
Deuteronomy 24:16
The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin
Deuteronomy 1:39
Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it.
2 Kings 14:6
But the sons of the slayers he did not put to death, according to what is written in the book of the Law of Moses, as the Lord commanded, saying, “The fathers shall not be put to death for the sons, nor the sons be put to death for the fathers; but each shall be put to death for his own sin
Ezekiel 18:19
Yet you say, ‘Why should the son not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity?’ When the son has practiced justice and righteousness and has observed all My statutes and done them, he shall surely live
Ezekiel 18:20
The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself
If what you are saying is true... then according to Rom 5:19 ALL have been made righteous by what Jesus has done
So you really believe verse 19 and there are no more sinners now???
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Hobie said:
The Bible doesn’t teach that people have immortal souls but many believe it.
But it does! Paul in Corinthians says when a believer is absent from the body , they are present with the Lord. So part of a person leaves the body at death.
Paul also prays a blessing on a persons body (soma), soul(psuche) and spirit(pneuma). The showing man is a triune body which is the image of the triune god.
The Bible doesn’t teach that people have immortal souls but many believe it.
But it does! Paul in Corinthians says when a believer is absent from the body , they are present with the Lord. So part of a person leaves the body at death.
Paul also prays a blessing on a persons body (soma), soul(psuche) and spirit(pneuma). The showing man is a triune body which is the image of the triune god.
ALL men are made righteous.
Righteous does not mean no sinners. It means to be made correct, right. Christ reversed the curse of the fall and made all things right. Defeated death. I Cor 15:21-22 says the same thing.
Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
NOT true according to Jesus
Matthew 7:13,14
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
I hope you get delivered from the false doctrines of universalism.... and soon because time is running out!
You show a total misunderstanding of Gospel respective of the creation of man and this world, the fall of man and the redemption of the world from the fall, which put the universe right with God, so that His prime creature, man, could again be in communion with Him in this world.
I explained the two contexts in which righteous is used in scripture. This could be your lack of understanding Greek.
We are entering the Lenten season which is all about Christs death and resurrection delivering mankind from the curse of death.
Read Rom 5, especially Rom 5:12, then vs 18-19. It is referencing physical death, the curse of Adam's sin, and Christ becoming man, generic man, not men who have a spiritual relationship with Him, so that He can overcome death. Physical death. This is also clearly illustrated in I Cor 15: 21 -22. It is also stated clearly in I Cor 15, 51-53. Referencing physical death, being mortal and becoming immortal. Other texts are II Cor 5:18-19 II Tim 1:10, Heb 2:14, Heb 2:9.
Everyone of these texts is showing how Christ made mankind righteous. Meaning, the Greek meaning, to be made right or put into a correct relationship. This is theology `101.
Without over coming death there can be no spiritual relationship with Christ. Man would still be condemned to death through Adam.
Do you even understand the doctrine of Universalism? It has actually been condemned by the Church in the Second Council of Constantinople in 553
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
How the idea of Immortal Soul got into the Church
The denial of death....even while staring it in the face, makes it easy to fall in line with all and any pagan views......which might I add, fall from the tree like a ripe apple in unrenewed minds.
Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
Yes you did.... with the false doctrine of universalism which is a doctrine of demons
You are a very confused individual
Quite contrary. My whole post originally was ONLY about mankind. It never even referenced man's spiritual existence with God.
In my second post I also only referenced the relationship God had with His creation from the cause of separation, namely death, the curse given to Adam. That effected all mankind, not just believers which you seem to think it refers. Christ's resurrection reversed the curse of death, physical death of mankind.
How can you even arrive at a view that these texts even reference universalism, which is why I asked if you even understood Universalism.
What do you think Easter is about?
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