Who or What is Babylon the Great? How do God’s people come to be in her?

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Aunty Jane

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Quoting Jesus does not qualify as giving a PLUG for Jesus. Giving a plug refers to promoting. Those condemning Jesus at his trial quoted him but did not promote him.
.
We use this language regularly in our society. Promoting Jesus is giving the ascendency to him in all matters.
Can you qualify “ascendency….in all matters”?

Jesus the Christ was a humble “servant” of his God and Father (Acts 4:27, 30)….his “ascendency” does not rise above that of Yahweh….the one the Bible calls “the Most High over all the earth” (Psalm 83:18)

The one who is appointed as our High Priest, leads us in the worship of his God…..even after his return to heaven, the Father remained his “God”. (Rev 3:12) If the god you worship is Jesus, then you are giving your worship to the wrong god…..one worthy of our respect and honor, deserving of obeisance, but not worship.

There is a headship arrangement in God’s intelligent creation, stated by Paul in 1 Cor 11:3…
”But I want you to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn, the head of a woman is the man; in turn, the head of the Christ is God.”

Giving Christ “God” status argues with everything the Bible says about the relationship of the son to the Father. Those putting another god in the Father’s place are breaking the first Commandment. (Exodus 20:3)
 
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Aunty Jane

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Please Aunty, it is upon you to show where the first day, Sunday was made Holy and Sanctified and made for man as the day of worship, all those things the scripture has for the Sabbath, yet not for the first day.
I am not promoting a specific day of the week to worship God or to carry out no work.
Sunday is of Roman Catholic origin….not of biblical origin. Christians were not mandated to observe a Sabbath at all, but there is certainly nothing wrong with setting aside any day of the week to rest or to engage in spiritual activities….Jesus is called “Lord of the Sabbath”….but do you know why?

“There is a thousand-year “sabbath” rest that lies ahead for mankind.

Mark 2:27, 28: “[Jesus] went on to say to them: ‘The sabbath came into existence for the sake of man, and not man for the sake of the sabbath; hence the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath.’”

Jesus knew that Jehovah had instituted the Sabbath as a sign between God and Israel, and that it was meant to bring them relief from their labors. Jesus also was aware that his own death would provide the basis for setting aside the Mosaic Law as having found its fulfillment in him. He appreciated that the Law, with its sabbath requirement, provided “a shadow of the good things to come.” (Heb. 10:1; Col. 2:16, 17) In connection with those “good things” there is a “sabbath” of which he is to be Lord.

As Lord of lords, Christ will rule all the earth for a thousand years. (Rev. 19:16; 20:6; Ps. 2:6-8) While on earth, Jesus mercifully performed some of his most amazing works of healing on the Sabbath, thus demonstrating the kind of relief that he will bring to people out of all nations during his Millennial Reign. (Luke 13:10-13; John 5:5-9; 9:1-14) Those who appreciate the real meaning of the Sabbath will have opportunity also to benefit from that “sabbath” rest.” (Reasoning from the Scriptures)

This is what the Sabbath was leading to….no other nation on earth was given a Sabbath law…only Israel.
Gentile Christians were under no obligation to observe the Sabbath.
 
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Aunty Jane

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We as children of God are here to share His love and truth so that we may find each other in the kingdom of God, not to destroy each other for where we go to church. There will be many that we may be surprise to see and many we may be shocked not to find there...
Jesus sent his disciples out to find those who were “worthy” of the kingdom. (Matt 10:11-14) And when they found those worthy ones (those who embraced the Christian message) they were to stay and educate them. (Matt 28:19-20) These in turn would bring their lives into harmony with God’s truth, and go on to educate others.

The ones to whom Christ originally preached were all Jewish, but gentiles were observing the impact he was having on his own people, and the divisions he was causing among them. Were the teachings of the Christ divisive?

Jesus said at Matt 10: 36-38
“Do not think I came to bring peace to the earth; I came to bring, not peace, but a sword. 35  For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36  Indeed, a man’s enemies will be those of his own household. 37  Whoever has greater affection for father or mother than for me is not worthy of me; and whoever has greater affection for son or daughter than for me is not worthy of me. 38  And whoever does not accept his torture stake and follow after me is not worthy of me.”

So our job as Christians is to preach… “the good news of the kingdom in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations” (Matt 24:14) so that the “worthy” ones can hear it and respond before “the end” comes.…but at the same time, it is causing divisions, and even making “enemies” in one’s own household.
There can never be true peace among those who hold different beliefs in one faith….there is but one truth, not many versions of it. All must subscribe to that one truth. (1 Cor 1:10)

When Jesus comes to separate the “sheep from the goats”, it is their response to the Christian message about the kingdom, that will determine which category they fall into. Jesus has already told us what the response of the goats will be…(Matt 7:21-23) Their rejection will come as a complete shock to them….why? Because Yahweh allowed them to exercise their free will and to choose him as their God…or to follow the false three headed god created by the Roman Catholic church, hundreds of years after Christ’s death.

Our choices have everlasting consequences because the Father is selecting only those who will qualify as citizens of his kingdom. They have to love the truth. (2Thess 2:9-12) God has requirements, and we have to know what those requirements are...and as the “harvest” time approaches, we have to be different to the “weeds” in every way.
 
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quietthinker

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Can you qualify “ascendency….in all matters”?

Jesus the Christ was a humble “servant” of his God and Father (Acts 4:27, 30)….his “ascendency” does not rise above that of Yahweh….the one the Bible calls “the Most High over all the earth” (Psalm 83:18)

The one who is appointed as our High Priest, leads us in the worship of his God…..even after his return to heaven, the Father remained his “God”. (Rev 3:12) If the god you worship is Jesus, then you are giving your worship to the wrong god…..one worthy of our respect and honor, deserving of obeisance, but not worship.

There is a headship arrangement in God’s intelligent creation, stated by Paul in 1 Cor 11:3…
”But I want you to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn, the head of a woman is the man; in turn, the head of the Christ is God.”

Giving Christ “God” status argues with everything the Bible says about the relationship of the son to the Father. Those putting another god in the Father’s place are breaking the first Commandment. (Exodus 20:3)
A diversion AJ?
 

Aunty Jane

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A diversion AJ?
Mate…there is no end to your own diversionary tactics…..I asked you the questions first, but as usual, no answers were provided….I gave you another opportunity and still there was no answers….and then you use diversionary tactics to accuse me of being diversionary…..you do my head in.

I will have to put you on “ignore” again as you have nothing of value to add to any discussion….you are just a mess of confusion.

Bye….
 
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quietthinker

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Mate…there is no end to your own diversionary tactics…..I asked you the questions first, but as usual, no answers were provided….I gave you another opportunity and still there was no answers….and then you use diversionary tactics to accuse me of being diversionary…..you do my head in.

I will have to put you on “ignore” again as you have nothing of value to add to any discussion….you are just a mess of confusion.

Bye….
Denial needs to remove context to maintain its position. It has no objectivity nor does it desire it.
Projection is its source of self justification.....and outrage.
 

Hobie

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I am not promoting a specific day of the week to worship God or to carry out no work.
Sunday is of Roman Catholic origin….not of biblical origin. Christians were not mandated to observe a Sabbath at all, but there is certainly nothing wrong with setting aside any day of the week to rest or to engage in spiritual activities….Jesus is called “Lord of the Sabbath”….but do you know why?

“There is a thousand-year “sabbath” rest that lies ahead for mankind.

Mark 2:27, 28: “[Jesus] went on to say to them: ‘The sabbath came into existence for the sake of man, and not man for the sake of the sabbath; hence the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath.’”

Jesus knew that Jehovah had instituted the Sabbath as a sign between God and Israel, and that it was meant to bring them relief from their labors. Jesus also was aware that his own death would provide the basis for setting aside the Mosaic Law as having found its fulfillment in him. He appreciated that the Law, with its sabbath requirement, provided “a shadow of the good things to come.” (Heb. 10:1; Col. 2:16, 17) In connection with those “good things” there is a “sabbath” of which he is to be Lord.

As Lord of lords, Christ will rule all the earth for a thousand years. (Rev. 19:16; 20:6; Ps. 2:6-8) While on earth, Jesus mercifully performed some of his most amazing works of healing on the Sabbath, thus demonstrating the kind of relief that he will bring to people out of all nations during his Millennial Reign. (Luke 13:10-13; John 5:5-9; 9:1-14) Those who appreciate the real meaning of the Sabbath will have opportunity also to benefit from that “sabbath” rest.” (Reasoning from the Scriptures)

This is what the Sabbath was leading to….no other nation on earth was given a Sabbath law…only Israel.
Gentile Christians were under no obligation to observe the Sabbath.
Those who love and follow Christ do, its that simple...
John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.
 
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TheHC

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Aunty Jane

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Those who love and follow Christ do, its that simple...
John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.
I know that you uphold this observance as non negotiable, and I do admire the sincerity of your beliefs….but the Sabbath was mandated to Jews only. As a devout Jew, Jesus kept the Sabbath, but he also came to fulfill the law and to “take it out of the way”….it was a perfect law, given to an imperfect people, therefore it became a “curse” to them because no one could keep it perfectly…..so why did God give such a law knowing that his people would constantly fail in keeping it?

Paul answers…Gal 3:19…
19 Why, then, the Law? It was added to make transgressions manifest, until the offspring should arrive to whom the promise had been made; and it was transmitted through angels by the hand of a mediator……

25 But now that the faith has arrived, we are no longer under a guardian”

The law was not a permanent arrangement standing for all time to keep condemning God’s people…it had a two fold purpose…..

1) “To make transgressions manifest”…to show God’s people how sin condemned them every day and to remind them of their need for a savior who would rescue them from “the curse of the law by becoming a curse instead” of them. (Gal 3:13-14)

2) It was to remain in force “until the offspring should arrive”….the mediator whom God had provided to lead Israel to their Messiah. It acted as a “guardian” for them, because only those who tried their best to keep it were ready for the promised one to arrive. (Gal 3:23-25)

So as Paul also stated…”Christ is the end of the law”…..that included the Sabbath….so from my studies, I cannot see how the Sabbath remains when the whole law was abolished when Jesus died. The written law was no longer in force and faith in Christ’s sacrifice now replaced it.
 
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TheHC

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Babylon the Great is like an immoral harlot, one living in shameless luxury
Revelation 17:1-5 says: “‘Come, I will show you the judgment upon the great harlot who sits on many waters [peoples], with whom the kings [political rulers] of the earth committed fornication, whereas those who inhabit the earth were made drunk with the wine of her fornication.’ . . . And upon her forehead was written a name, a mystery: ‘Babylon the Great, the mother of the harlots and of the disgusting things of the earth.’” Revelation 18:7 adds that “she glorified herself and lived in shameless luxury.”
Is it not true that the dominant religious organizations have made it a practice to consort with political rulers for power and material gain, though this has resulted in suffering for the common people? Is it not also true that their higher clergy live in luxury, even though many of the people to whom they should minister may be impoverished?
Why can religions that profess to be Christian properly be viewed as a part of Babylon the Great, along with those who know nothing of the God of the Bible?
Jas. 4:4: “Adulteresses, do you not know that the friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever, therefore, wants to be a friend of the world is constituting himself an enemy of God.” (So, though they know what the Bible says about God, they make themselves his enemies if they choose friendship with the world by imitating its ways.)
2 Cor. 4:4; 11:14, 15: “The god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through.” “Satan himself keeps transforming himself into an angel of light. It is therefore nothing great if his ministers also keep transforming themselves into ministers of righteousness. But their end shall be according to their works.” (Thus Jehovah’s chief adversary, Satan the Devil himself, is really being honored by all who do not worship the true God in the manner that He has appointed, even though they may claim to be Christians. See also 1 Corinthians 10:20.)
Matt. 7:21-23: “Not everyone saying to me [Jesus Christ], ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness.”
Why is it urgent to get out of Babylon the Great without delay?
Rev. 18:4: “Get out of her, my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues.”
Rev. 18:21: “A strong angel lifted up a stone like a great millstone and hurled it into the sea, saying: ‘Thus with a swift pitch will Babylon the great city be hurled down, and she will never be found again.’”
Luke 21:36: “Keep awake, then, all the time making supplication that you may succeed in escaping all these things that are destined to occur, and in standing before the Son of man.”
What will happen to people who did not know Bible truth but lived and died in the past as part of Babylon the Great?
Acts 17:30: “God has overlooked the times of such ignorance, yet now he is telling mankind that they should all everywhere repent.”
Acts 24:15: “There is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.” (As to which ones of “the unrighteous” will be raised, God will decide.)
Job 34:12: “For a fact, God himself does not act wickedly, and the Almighty himself does not pervert judgment.”

More at Source:
Thanks again!
 

quietthinker

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I see why AJ ignores you.

She asked you: “What is your message?”

And from you? Nothing but crickets.
The short sightedness is astounding. In order for both yourself and AJ to make the criticisms you make, you need to deny/ ignore the context of the conversation. You also need to ignore where, how and why AJ's sidestepping is preferential including the hurried projection.
I'm not even certain you understand this language or could be bothered finding out.
 

pepper

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I know that you uphold this observance as non negotiable, and I do admire the sincerity of your beliefs….but the Sabbath was mandated to Jews only. As a devout Jew, Jesus kept the Sabbath, but he also came to fulfill the law and to “take it out of the way”….it was a perfect law, given to an imperfect people, therefore it became a “curse” to them because no one could keep it perfectly…..so why did God give such a law knowing that his people would constantly fail in keeping it?

Paul answers…Gal 3:19…
19 Why, then, the Law? It was added to make transgressions manifest, until the offspring should arrive to whom the promise had been made; and it was transmitted through angels by the hand of a mediator……

25 But now that the faith has arrived, we are no longer under a guardian”

The law was not a permanent arrangement standing for all time to keep condemning God’s people…it had a two fold purpose…..

1) “To make transgressions manifest”…to show God’s people how sin condemned them every day and to remind them of their need for a savior who would rescue them from “the curse of the law by becoming a curse instead” of them. (Gal 3:13-14)

2) It was to remain in force “until the offspring should arrive”….the mediator whom God had provided to lead Israel to their Messiah. It acted as a “guardian” for them, because only those who tried their best to keep it were ready for the promised one to arrive. (Gal 3:23-25)

So as Paul also stated…”Christ is the end of the law”…..that included the Sabbath….so from my studies, I cannot see how the Sabbath remains when the whole law was abolished when Jesus died. The written law was no longer in force and faith in Christ’s sacrifice now replaced it.
Saul knew nothing about Jesus.
 

TheHC

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The short sightedness is astounding. In order for both yourself and AJ to make the criticisms you make, you need to deny/ ignore the context of the conversation. You also need to ignore where, how and why AJ's sidestepping is preferential including the hurried projection.
I'm not even certain you understand this language or could be bothered finding out.
Well maybe you could explain it.

That’s what we’ve been waiting for!

But your reputation precedes you…. It’s already established, reading through your dialogue history w/ @Aunty Jane, that you won’t or can’t support any view you have.
It’s another “mystery”.

Have a good day, my riddle-speaking cousin.
 
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quietthinker

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Well maybe you could explain it.

That’s what we’ve been waiting for!

But your reputation precedes you…. It’s already established, reading through your dialogue history w/ @Aunty Jane, that you won’t or can’t support any view you have.
It’s another “mystery”.

Have a good day, my riddle-speaking cousin.
The Jews regularly pestered Jesus for a sign to prove his authority/ authenticity when all along he was providing signs. You guys have the same issue. Your inability to hear and see is never questioned by yourselves. You assume you have 20/20 vision and hearing which excels when in fact you struggle to tell a mountain from a molehill and a flat note from a sharp one.
I hope that's not too much of a 'riddle' for you to decipher.

To make it easy for you, perhaps checking my post #188 and what it responded to (the underlined in AJ's post) might give you perspective.
 
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TheHC

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The Jews regularly pestered Jesus for a sign to prove his authority/ authenticity when all along he was providing signs. You guys have the same issue. Your inability to hear and see is never questioned by yourselves. You assume you have 20/20 vision and hearing which excels when in fact you struggle to tell a mountain from a molehill and a flat note from a sharp one.
I hope that's not too much of a 'riddle' for you to decipher.

To make it easy for you, perhaps checking my post #188 and what it responded to (the underlined in AJ's post) might give you perspective.
Ok…your post #188,
Cut to the chase AJ, what is that message?
What’s this?
Another question from you?!

When are you gonna answer those questions asked of you?

It’s a two-way street, cousin.

When you logically answer my question - in post # 208 - I might feel inclined to answer yours. Logically.

That’s how dialogue works.

Give it a shot.
 
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