Exploring Trinitarian Logic

[Ritajanice]

Nice poster RJ.
IF you believe what you just posted.

Of course I believe what I posted.

If we aren’t Born Again ,then we aren’t reunited back to our Father God...how else am I going to be able to enter heaven, if my spirit hasn’t been forgiven / birthed and reunited back to God...Spirit gives birth to spirit...?

My spirit is Born Again, Born Again is Biblical , without out it we can’t see the Kingdom Of God...reading your posts on another thread about Born Again you seem very confused in your understanding of what it means...I guess I’ll catch you over on the other thread...hopefully..I did ask you a few questions.....we are all learning...I would love to get your understanding of what it means to be birthed in the Spirit...see you over there.

 

[Ritajanice]

We also have this.

If Jesus was fully God, then why does he intercede for us with the Father?

He’s also sitting at his right hand....yet he’s supposed to be fully God....is it not surprising that I’m confused..
With all that’s been presented to me today...I just thank God that I can take a break from it, not put myself under pressure to understand..plus having that security that belief in the trinity, doesn’t affect our salvation...Praise God...

Romans 8:34says that Jesus “is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.” In 1 John 2:1 we read that Jesus is our “advocate with the Father,” and from Hebrews 7:25 we learn that Jesus “always lives to intercede” for us.

 

[Ritajanice]

Full context of scripture.

10 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.

3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

6 This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.

7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.

9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.

13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.

14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

19 There was a division therefore again among the Jews for these sayings.

20 And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him?

21 Others said, These are not the words of him that hath a devil. Can a devil open the eyes of the blind?

22 And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.

23 And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch.

24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.

25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

30 I and my Father are one.

31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

39 Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand,

40 And went away again beyond Jordan into the place where John at first baptized; and there he abode.

41 And many resorted unto him, and said, John did no miracle: but all things that John spake of this man were true.

42 And many believed on him there.

 

[Lizbeth]

Of course it’s all about being Born Again, after being Born Again, what do you think that you grow in, doctrine?

What does the Bible say about spiritually mature?
Our faith in Jesus was not created to sit idle or remain stagnate but to mature and grow. What is spiritual maturity? Paul in Ephesians 4:14-15 says: “Then we will no longer be immature like children… but growing in every way more and more like Christ.”

Whose conforming me into the image of Jesus....the Spirit of course, the Bible can’t mature our spirit, it just confirms how our spirit is conformed into Jesus image....by the power of the Holy Spirit, we have that new heart and spirit within...remember?...partakers Of the divine nature....that is the biggest Honour and Privilege one can receive from God, for any of us....for without the Spirit I’d still be in darkness and alienated from the Living Spirit Of God.
The word is there of course to understand how we grow and mature in Christ, but, the word doesn’t make our spirit grow/ mature, that’s the role of the Holy Spirit, whose leading and authority were under, the moment our spirit is reborn, only then can we be conformed into Jesus image....
We grow in spirit, whose Spirit are we growing in?..how do we communicate with God, through his Living Spirit, check it out with doctrine?

It’s the Spirits role in us that grows and matures us, how can I grow in Christ...just by reading a Bible?

23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth


We do not worship the Bible.....we worship the Living God in spirit.

Short commentary.
The Bible says in John 4:24“God is a Spirit…” hence, we can only make contact with Him through our spirits. When He wants to communicate with you, He does so directly with your spirit, not your head or your mind; it's a Spirit-to-spirit communication.


Wow!!....are you saying that you only know what Born Again means by only reading about it in the Bible...the Bible confirms how our spirit is reborn.....= by supernatural divine Living heart revelation....how else could I possibly know that my spirit is Born Again, other than by Gods Living testimony.....the Bible even confirms that?

What do you think “ Spirit gives birth to spirit “ means?

I knew in my spirit that is was Born Again, having never read a Bible...God speaks to our heart, what does he say about seeking him out with all our heart.we may be on a different level of faith, Lizbeth.

Not for me Sis...as soon as the Spirit testified with my spirit that I was God’s child, I knew straight away that my spirit was Born Again, it was Alive in Christ.

That’s all I knew, “ Born Again “, the Holy Spirit has been growing and maturing me in Christ ever since.....reading the word is 100% necessary, it confirms everything that the Spirit is teaching us...

The Bible is not the Living Spirit Of God...it’s what I refer to every time I believe God is speaking to my spirit/ heart..

God has always communicated with my spirit/ heart...via His Living testimony, who indwells my heart/ spirit...where did my new heart and spirit that I have within come from, the Bible?...of course not, it was a wonderful gift from God, supernatural faith, that was planted by God in my spirit/ heart, penetrated my heart/ spirit and taken up permanent residence in my spirit, Gods seed ( Living) is what penetrates our heart and starts to grow, a Living seed....Born Again of imperishable/ incorruptible seed....

I believe he speaks to you via his word.....you and I understand the Bible differently...

God speaks to you one way, he speaks to me a different way, we are all part of the vine....God uses us all very differently to represent his Son, that is my testimony/ belief.

Personally, I think we all need to respect where each other are regarding spiritual growth, we’re all most definitely understanding the word differently.......that’s for sure.....

One thing we all have in common and know is, no one can come to the Son except through the Father...

God gives you different knowledge about himself, he does the same imo to everyone else.

We all testify of God in the way that he has brought us to testify....” differently “......

I think it’s a shame when we start pointing the finger , when others don’t understand us....I think we need to be far more patient with one another, ...then I get whispered in my ear...whose patience do you need....the patience of the Spirit of course....anyway just my thoughts...

Short commentary.

The psalmist in Psalm 84 also says that those whose hearts are set on pilgrimage are blessed. Our natural selves long for a home, for stability, for comfort, and for some measure of predictability. A heart set on pilgrimage recognizes that moving toward God often means leaving behind those very things.

Doctrine is teachings and beliefs. It matters very much what we believe and choose to believe, as that can steer us in the right direction, or it can lead us astray, which can ultimately lead to apostasy. After being born again we are exhorted in scripture to grow in understanding and in knowledge of God, which helps our personal spiritual growth. For which knowledge of His word is a tremendous help. And the body is called to edify itself in love and provoke one another to good works and teach and preach His word.

2Ti 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2Ti 4:2
Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

Those who don't know the scriptures well don't mature much and are prone to blowing around with every wind of doctrine, this I experienced in my earlier years, as well as often observe in others.

And sister, I want to tell you, the devil works hard to try and keep people from God's word....those who have trouble reading/hearing scripture is often because of a spirit (not God's) hindering and blocking them, and they need to seek God for deliverance.

 

[Wrangler]

I’m still not 100% understanding the trinity

A trinitarian admitted in this very thread the trinity cannot be understood (only believed). This is because it is not understandable nonsense, like square circles. The trinity's origin is from Pagan religions that Christians encountered as they spread out from Israel, particularly Greek. @Aunty Jane once posted a rather comprehensive post showing the various triune Pagan gods from antiquity.

Not only is the trinity embarrassingly not in Scripture, it goes against Scripture. A formal statement may be The nature of God is a trinity - consisting of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit who are co-equal, co-substantial and co-eternal - and if you do not believe this, you cannot be saved but are damned to hell forever. The doctrine of the trinity is inherently contradictory besides contradicting Scripture. This means it is inherently nonsense, like square circles. That's why I presented the logical options in this post.

P1. There is a 3 person committee that makes up the whole.
P2. One person on this committee is fully the whole.
C. 3 = 1.

Pick 1:

1. The trinity doctrine is wrong because it contradicts the Bible.
2. The Bible is wrong because it does not have an explicit teaching of the trinity.

I pick 1, the trinity is wrong doctrine. It's wrong because it is not in Scripture.

Predictably, no trinitarian even responded to it. It is telling how frequently adherent's summarily ignore questions. They act like only they get to ask questions and their dogma must be accepted by default. The mortal enemies of the concept of the trinity are these 4 pillars, which have to be violated at every turn:

1. Definition​

2. Logic​

3. Language Usage​

4. Explicit Scripture​

One devotee redefines death. Death is not the end of life, to rationalize the trinity. Death is merely the separation from God, you see. What they fail to realize in these desperate rationalizations to "support" the man-is-god thesis is that it never supports the magic #3. In this case, with a redefinition of death, then we are all immortal or eternal and not just Christ.

It is remarkable to see them ignore explicit teachings of Scripture (there is only one God, the father) to rely on their own understanding in invoking invalid premises to appear to use logic.

P1. God is the word.​

P2. The word was made flesh.​

C.​

As @Rich R recently pointed out, all the verses that are vague that trinitarians doctrinally invest in have a valid non-trinitarian interpretation. This makes sense given the fact that, with the possible exception of Luke, the entire Bible is written by unitarian Jews who reject the trinity to this day. Everything the trinitarians invoke from Scripture has to be taken out of this unitarian context.

Context is not explicitly one of the pillars above but is part of language usage. If one reads John 1 in its entirety, the context is obvious that John is telling the reader that Jesus is the expected prophet that Moses told us about who is a man among the people of Israel v21 and v45, from Deut 18:15-18. Trinitarians have no answer to explain if their interpretation of v1 is correct, why does Jesus teach that the Father is the only true God? Also, every epistle acknowledges only God the Father. There is no God the Son or God the HS. Odd that the trinity doctrine being completely absent from Scripture does not disturb these IDOLATORS one little bit.

I hope this post helps you better understand the trinity.

 

[Ritajanice]

Doctrine is teachings and beliefs.

Doctrine does not save, it confirms all that the Spirit testifies with my heart/ spirit...the Holy Spirit is the teacher, doctrine confirms this.
Belief in God comes from his Living testimony, it doesn’t come from doctrine..the Bible confirms this we are Born Of The Spirit we are not Born Again by any bible...the rebirth is a Living supernatural spiritual rebirth, ....the Living Spirit indwells our spirit...the Bible doesn’t indwell my spirit, the Bible confirms what the Spirit testifies/ witnesses to my heart/ spirit.

It matters very much what we believe and choose to believe, as that can steer us in the right direction, or it can lead us astray, which can ultimately lead to apostasy. After being born again we are exhorted in scripture to grow in understanding and in knowledge of God, which helps our personal spiritual growth. For which knowledge of His word is a tremendous help. And the body is called to edify itself in love and provoke one another to good works and teach and preach His word.

That’s what you believe, I posted what I believe.

2Ti 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2Ti 4:2
Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

Again, that scripture makes sense to you, makes no sense to me..I am Born Again a child of God, led by the Living Holy Spirit as he indwells my spirit, under his influence and his authority.....I am being conformed into the image of Jesus as I am a partaker Of the divine nature, called to Glorify God ....and be a representative for the Lord Jesus just as I’ve been called to do by God, I know my calling......to be led through the Bible by the Holy Spirit, who brings the word to my understanding...reproof and correction can only come from the Living Spirit....everything we hear from humans, including myself, cannot always be taken for Gods truth....many interpretations of scripture from folk on here, whose to say who speaks Gods truth...that’s where the gift of discernment is needed..

Those who don't know the scriptures well don't mature much and are prone to blowing around with every wind of doctrine, this I experienced in my earlier years, as well as often observe in others.

Don’t agree, those who don’t seek God out with their heart, only understand scripture from their own human understanding...seeking God out within one’s heart, is where we will find God, which the word confirms...God is the revealer of himself to us, when we seek him out genuinely and sincerely....don’t let anyone puff themselves up with their own knowledge of scripture....knowledge of scripture comes and is revealed to our heart/ spirit only by the Holy Spirit...we know nothing without him.

Maturity doesn’t come from scripture, it comes from the Living Holy Spirit who is at work in our hearts/ spirit ,maturing and conforming our heart / spirit to be more and more like Christ, the Bible confirms this.
We have a new heart and spirit within...which is being purified daily ,and inevitably will grow in maturity to be more like Jesus....the Living seed was planted in our hearts/ spirit, there it starts the process of spiritual growth...

And sister, I want to tell you, the devil works hard to try and keep people from God's word....those who have trouble reading/hearing scripture is often because of a spirit (not God's) hindering and blocking them, and they need to seek God for deliverance.

Those who have trouble hearing the Spirit of God speaking to their heart/ spirit are missing out beyond my words can explain...I’ve been there..the enemy used to say to me, that wasn’t God speaking to your heart..it was all in your imagination...oh yes, the devil is such a scheming liar..

I don’t need any deliverance from the devil...I just need to walk in faith, trusting all that the Spirit reveals to my heart/ spirit.

Bible knowledge without God’s Living testimony leading us through and bringing it to our understanding...

One will get nowhere...therefore seek God out with all your heart for there is where you will find him.

 

[GodsGrace]

Amusing as you continue to interpret my words into what you want it to mean to further your obvious agenda of the Trinity model of God not found in the Bible.

You know I never said or want to even think that the Bible was written by non-inspired people of God. What happened however after a few centuries after Christ, and you must know this already, some sneaky people of power and of the pen snuck into the Holy writ and modifies scripture here and there that served, you guessed it, their Trinity nondescript God. Now would you want to build your beliefs and doctrines on these contaminated areas of scriptures? It's disgusting.

So continue to shout out, as if folks with listen, that I might have said or suggested these Bible writers were fanatics, and it is lie of course. It is a wild gesture of desperation that will only get you a bad reputation, if not already.

This is the 3rd time you're accusing me of misquoting you and so I will no longer be posting to you since it's obvious I don't understand you at all.

BUT

HERE is what you posted in your post no. 4052 in its entirety:

Relax a bit...

I'm afraid you might not like my answer. The list of beliefs and doctrines comes from the word of God, the Bible. Not from fables and the writings of religious fanatics and philosophers that took an interest in the Bible at one time, and then departed from it to use it and mix it in with their own vane ideas to make a name for themselves.

If you think the above is NOT YOU calling the very persons who assembled the bible (which is the group I was referring to) then YOU need to be careful of what you write.

I was addressing the Early Church Fathers.
The ECF's assembled the NT.
That may not be what you like to hear because you might be prejudiced against them for some reason or other,
but your dislike of anything outside of the bible does NOT REPUTIATE HISTORY.
And try to remember that it's due to THEIR sacrifices and hard work that you're on a Christian forum today.

And with this I end my posts to you.
I will not be replying further.

 

[Lizbeth]

Doctrine does not save, it confirms all that the Spirit testifies with my heart/ spirit...the Holy Spirit is the teacher, doctrine confirms this.
Belief in God comes from his Living testimony, it doesn’t come from doctrine..the Bible confirms this we are Born Of The Spirit we are not Born Again by any bible...the rebirth is a Living supernatural spiritual rebirth, ....the Living Spirit indwells our spirit...the Bible doesn’t indwell my spirit, the Bible confirms what the Spirit testifies/ witnesses to my heart/ spirit.

That’s what you believe, I posted what I believe.

Again, that scripture makes sense to you, makes no sense to me..I am Born Again a child of God, led by the Living Holy Spirit as he indwells my spirit, under his influence and his authority.....I am being conformed into the image of Jesus as I am a partaker Of the divine nature, called to Glorify God ....and be a representative for the Lord Jesus just as I’ve been called to do by God, I know my calling......to be led through the Bible by the Holy Spirit, who brings the word to my understanding...reproof and correction can only come from the Living Spirit....everything we hear from humans, including myself, cannot always be taken for Gods truth....many interpretations of scripture from folk on here, whose to say who speaks Gods truth...that’s where the gift of discernment is needed..

Don’t agree, those who don’t seek God out with their heart, only understand scripture from their own human understanding...seeking God out within one’s heart, is where we will find God, which the word confirms.

Those who have trouble hearing the Spirit of God speaking to their heart/ spirit are missing out beyond my words can explain...I’ve been there..the enemy used to say to me, that wasn’t God speaking to your heart..it was all in your imagination...oh yes, the devil is such a scheming liar..

I don’t need any deliverance from the devil...I just need to walk in faith, trusting all that the Spirit reveals to my heart/ spirit.

Bible knowledge without God’s Living testimony leading us through and bringing it to our understanding...

One will get nowhere...therefore seek God out with all your heart for there is where you will find him.

It's so strange to me that a born again Christian would be arguing against God-breathed scriptures. Maybe you're overthinking this. And I'm not speaking of the letter but the new way of the Spirit. Amen we are to seek God with all our heart.....He is there, and also in heaven and also in His living abiding word too as we read and meditate on it prayerfully with the Holy Spirit illuminating it to us. Just think, that Word was made flesh sister and will never pass away.

 

[Ritajanice]

It's so strange to me that a born again Christian would be arguing against God-breathed scriptures. Maybe you're overthinking this. And I'm not speaking of the letter but the new way of the Spirit. Amen we are to seek God with all our heart.....He is there, and also in heaven and also in His living abiding word

God does not live in the Bible..

What do you mean he is there, where in us is he ..and by whose testimony?

Who birthed our spirit?

too as we read and meditate on it prayerfully with the Holy Spirit illuminating it to us.

The Holy Spirit illuminates nothing to me in the Bible...he speaks / testifies directly to my spirit as it’s Born Again?

Just think, that Word was made flesh sister and will never pass away.

I have argued against no scripture, so please don’t start twisting what I’ve posted, I’ve said what we hear from the Spirit must always be checked out with the word... it’s how you interpret being Born Again is what I don’t agree with.

You said not many would understand what it means to be Born Again unless they read scripture.?

So tell me how can reading scripture birth you spirit supernaturally by divine heart revelation?

What is supernatural divine heart revelation?

 

[Wrangler]

Just think, that Word was made flesh sister and will never pass away.

Taking figurative verses literally. The literal word of God will not pass away. Words are WHAT's not WHO's. Words are what a person says, not a distinct person from the one who says it.

God's literal word was put in a man of the people of Israel, fulfilling the prophecy of Deuteronomy 18:15-18, i.e., made flesh.
The word was made flesh ≠ God was made flesh.

 

[GodsGrace]

We are all Christian’s in this thread - despite claims to the contrary.

You just blashpemed God in a post that just fell on page 1 and which I am NOT going to look for....
but, you blaspheme Jesus all the time, so no problem for those reading along...they know what you state.

And, you can call yourself a billionaire...
that does not make you one.

 

[GodsGrace]

Taking figurative verses literally. The literal word of God will not pass away. Words are WHAT's not WHO's. Words are what a person says, not a distinct person from the one who says it.

God's literal word was put in a man of the people of Israel, fulfilling the prophecy of Deuteronomy 18:15-18, i.e., made flesh.
The word was made flesh ≠ God was made flesh.

You can't stand it Wrangler.
It's truly satanic.

@Lizbeth is a CHRISTIAN person....she knows what CHRISTIANS believe....

and she is 100% correct in her post.
THE WORD
THE LOGOS

Go find out what the logos is Mr. Philosopher (which is how you presented yourself to me back when).

THE WORD/LOGOS became FLESH.

You posted this:
God's literal word was put in a man of the people of Israel, fulfilling the prophecy of Deuteronomy 18:15-18, i.e., made flesh.
The word was made flesh ≠ God was made flesh.

So you agree with the Trinity now?
Yes. God's WORD/LOGOS was made flesh.

OR

Do you mean that GOD ALMIGHTY THE CREATOR. or as we Christians would say GOD FATHER....
came down to earth HIMSELF?

Which would be a problem because God is Spirit and is Invisible.
Need verses? IF you really do, I'll go get 'em for ya.

 

[Ritajanice]

Jesus glorified body and Spirit will never pass away...it’s seated at the right hand of his Father God in heaven.

The body that he walked the earth with ,died on a cross, period...what happened to his human body, I don’t think is recorded, not sure, perhaps someone can put me right on that.?

 

[Wrangler]

You can't stand it Wrangler.
It's truly satanic.

Projecting.

Do you mean that GOD ALMIGHTY THE CREATOR. or as we Christians would say GOD FATHER....
came down to earth HIMSELF?

Neither. What part of my post below do you not understand?

Taking figurative verses literally. The literal word of God will not pass away. Words are WHAT's not WHO's. Words are what a person says, not a distinct person from the one who says it.

God's literal word was put in a man of the people of Israel, fulfilling the prophecy of Deuteronomy 18:15-18, i.e., made flesh.
The word was made flesh ≠ God was made flesh.

 

[Ritajanice]

You can't stand it Wrangler.
It's truly satanic.

@Lizbeth is a CHRISTIAN person....she knows what CHRISTIANS believe....

and she is 100% correct in her post.
THE WORD
THE LOGOS

Go find out what the logos is Mr. Philosopher (which is how you presented yourself to me back when).

THE WORD/LOGOS became FLESH.

You posted this:
God's literal word was put in a man of the people of Israel, fulfilling the prophecy of Deuteronomy 18:15-18, i.e., made flesh.
The word was made flesh ≠ God was made flesh.

So you agree with the Trinity now?
Yes. God's WORD/LOGOS was made flesh.

OR

Do you mean that GOD ALMIGHTY THE CREATOR. or as we Christians would say GOD FATHER....
came down to earth HIMSELF?

Which would be a problem because God is Spirit and is Invisible.
Need verses? IF you really do, I'll go get 'em for ya.

Of course she does...because she’s on the same page as you.LOL...you understand her, you certainly do not understand what I post that’s for sure, so what I post must be satanic and that of John Calvin, ..,LOL.

Therefore wrangler and I couldn’t possibly be Born Again Christ followers....because we don’t believe as you believe...LOL...plus apparently I’m a Calvin follower, because I post what I believe to be placed on my heart by the Spirit....well, good on Calvin if he posted like me...that makes him a Born Again Christ follower......are you with me yet?

And yet you have the gall to accuse me Of, exactly what you accuse me and others of....wake up GG..has the penny dropped yet?

Growing in self awareness is a wonderful gift...

Why is self-awareness so important? Proverbs 20:5says, “the purpose in a man's heart is like deep water, but a man of understanding will draw it out.” Developing self-awareness is vital toward building a relationship with ourselves and with God.

 

[Lizbeth]

Jesus glorified body and Spirit will never pass away.

The body that he walked the earth with ,died on a cross, period...what happened to his human body, I don’t think is recorded, not sure, perhaps someone can put me right on that.?

In Matthew, Mark and Luke it says this:

Mat 24:35
Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

No need to overthink things.....scripture says we are not to lean on our own understanding but in all our ways acknowledge (and depend upon) GOD and HE will make our paths straight. All we need to do is accept what scripture says and more understanding may come later, or not......because we likely will not and don't have to understand everything in this life. Just don't lets be arguing against the truth and what we may not yet understand. There is no need to try and justify oneself, or explain away the problem.....if anyone has trouble reading the scriptures they can seek the Lord for help.

 

[Ritajanice]

In Matthew, Mark and Luke it says this:

Mat 24:35
Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

No need to overthink things.....scripture says we are not to lean on our own understand but in all our ways acknowledge (and depend upon) GOD and HE will make our paths straight. All we need to do is accept what scripture says and more understanding may come later, or not......because we likely will not and don't have to understand everything in this life. Just don't lets be arguing against the truth and what we may not yet understand. There is no need to try and justify oneself, or explain away the problem.....if anyone has trouble reading the scriptures they can seek the Lord for help.

I accept what the Holy Spirit testifies with my spirit..then I check it with scripture...

The Holy Spirit speaks directly to my spirit..just like he did when he birthed my spirit, the Bible confirms his Living testimony.

The Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are the children of God.....spirit children...not worldly children any longer.

Flesh gives birth to flesh.

Spirit gives birth to spirit.

 

[GodsGrace]

Thanks for the kind words. I'll just say that I went to a Catholic school for 12 years where we had religion class 5 days a week. I'm very familiar with the trinity. I've just come to a point where I accept Jesus as the son of God and let it go at that. There is a world of difference between "the son of God" and "God the Son." The former is all over the scriptures whereas the latter is noticeably absent. I can't help but see that.

And you think you could learn the Trinity from going to a Catholic school for 12 years?
I used to be Catholic Rich, I sent my two children to Catholic school for varying reasons.
I've been teaching Catholic doctrine for years so I know what I'm saying: You CANNOT learn about the Trinity in Catholic school.

I began to read the ECF's a few years ago and I can't tell you how liberating it was for me.
Those that the Apostles taught - the Apostles taught - believed Jesus was God.
These men worked hard to come to grips with what this meant...and they did....and they died for it.
I don't think we should let church history and the early church's belief system go so easily.

Here are some writings of theirs:


Polycarp (AD 69-155) was the bishop at the church in Smyrna. Irenaeus tells us Polycarp was a disciple of John the Apostle. In his Letter to the Philippians he says,

Now may the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the eternal high priest himself, the Son of God Jesus Christ, build you up in faith and truth...and to us with you, and to all those under heaven who will yet believe in our Lord and God Jesus Christ and in his Father who raised him from the dead.1

Ignatius (AD 50-117) was the bishop at the church in Antioch and also a disciple of John the Apostle. He wrote a series of letters to various churches on his way to Rome, where he was to be martyred. He writes,

Ignatius, who is also Theophorus, unto her which hath been blessed in greatness through the plentitude of God the Father; which hath been foreordained before the ages to be for ever unto abiding and unchangeable glory, united and elect in a true passion, by the will of the Father and of Jesus Christ our God; even unto the church which is in Ephesus [of Asia], worthy of all felicitation: abundant greeting in Christ Jesus and in blameless joy.2

Being as you are imitators of God, once you took on new life through the blood of God you completed perfectly the task so natural to you.3

There is only one physician, who is both flesh and spirit, born and unborn, God in man, true life in death, both from Mary and from God, first subject to suffering and then beyond it, Jesus Christ our Lord.4

Justin Martyr (AD 100-165) was an Christian apologist of the second century.

And that Christ being Lord, and God the Son of God, and appearing formerly in power as Man, and Angel, and in the glory of fire as at the bush, so also was manifested at the judgment executed on Sodom, has been demonstrated fully by what has been said.10

Permit me first to recount the prophecies, which I wish to do in order to prove that Christ is called both God and Lord of hosts.11

Therefore these words testify explicitly that He [Jesus] is witnessed to by Him [the Father] who established these things, as deserving to be worshipped, as God and as Christ.12

The Father of the universe has a Son; who also, being the first-begotten Word of God, is even God.

There's a lot more in case you'd care to look up these writers of the very early church who were taught by the Apostles.

As per Romans 10:9 I confessed Jesus as my lord (he's my boss. Sometimes I actually do what he says. ) and I believed that God raised him from the dead. As the same verse says, that make me saved.

This is good. I also left the CC way back in the 70's when I had my experience with God and got to know Jesus.
It offers some things now...not much...but back then it offered nothing.
As you can see from where I live...I do attend Mass at times.
I have no problem with this or the homilies - I do wish more was said - but Jesus is very much presented to whomever would wish to receive Him.

Whether Jesus is God or not, I definitely don't see where I have to believe he is God in order to be saved.

I NEVER say who's saved or who isn't. That's up to you and God.
I said this:
IN ORDER TO BE DEFINED,,,,,,
DEFINED
AS CHRISTIAN....A PERSON MUST BELIEVE CHRISTIAN TENETS.
ONE OF THEM IS THAT JESUS IS GOD.
(sorry for the caps, just easier).

On the other hand, I don't see where someone who believes Jesus is God is not a Christian. I'd never suggest you are not a born again Christian.

I read the above a couple of times and I'm not sure what it means.
If someone believes Jesus is God...of course He's a Christian.
As Paul says in 1 Cor, he must also believe that He rose from the dead.

As to me being born again or not....right...that is not for you to decide.
If a person IS born again, they should be defined as Christian.
To be defined as Christian one must believe Jesus is God and that He was resurrected from the dead....
because THIS is the proof that HE IS GOD.

Just as only God can forgive sin...
Only God could resurrect Himself from the dead...It is HIS power that does this.

You're just a born again Christian who believes in the trinity. We'll both be on the new earth where we can continue this conversation with a more perfect insight. I look forward to meeting you face to face!

Rich,,,,there are members on this very forum that claim to be Christian and do not even believe Jesus is God.
They tell me he's a man.
Our faith cannot be watered down in this manner.
I think we need to stand up for our faith.
Try telling an Islamic person something negative about Muhammad.
The name of Jesus is used as CURSE WORD in many movies because we Christians do NOTHING about it.
We just don't care.
I was not like this before...I've come to the realization that it goes beyond discussing whether or not Jesus is God...
This should not be a matter for debate....it should be ACCEPTED by everyone that wants to define themselves as Christiuan.

And with that, I respect your desire to stop.
I think you understand my newly acquired position.

 

[GodsGrace]

Projecting.

Neither. What part of my post below do you not understand?

No more posting to you Wrangler.
I will comment from time to time,
it's my prerogative.

 

[Wrangler]

What part of my post below do you not understand?

Taking figurative verses literally. The literal word of God will not pass away. Words are WHAT's not WHO's. Words are what a person says, not a distinct person from the one who says it.

God's literal word was put in a man of the people of Israel, fulfilling the prophecy of Deuteronomy 18:15-18, i.e., made flesh.
The word was made flesh ≠ God was made flesh.

No more posting to you Wrangler.
I will comment from time to time,
it's my prerogative.

See what I mean @Ritajanice about trinitarians refusing to answer questions?