Miscellaneous observations on the Pre Trib Rapture

[KUWN]

The word rapture is found in the Bible in Paul’s writings, more than once. Those who claim the word Rapture does not appear in the Bible have no biblical basis for such a claim.

The rapture is defined as a single event, whereas apostasy is a process that has no definable beginning and end. An Apostasy is not something you can point to as an event. Apostasy can be interpreted as ‘departure.’

Irenaeus, as of today, has the oldest Pre-Trib statement made, in the second century! No, the Rapture did not first come on the scene with Darby.

The Rapture takes place before the beginning of the Day of the Lord (aka, The Tribulation).

The Rapture has no antecedent signs; it comes as a thief in the night, hence the Rapture could happen any time, it is, unlike the Second Coming, imminent. This was the belief of the early Church.

The primary purpose of the Rapture is to end the Church dispensation and resume the Jewish age. There are 7 years left until the Jewish dispensation is over with.

Rev 3.10 states that the Church will be removed from the time of the Tribulation.

If the Lord will keep us safe during the Trib, as Post-Trib claim, why have a Rapture at all, surely the Lord can keep us safe at the end of the Trib. A Rapture at the time of the second coming serves no prophetic purpose.

If the Rapture and the Second Coming occur together, as post tribbers believe, and all living believers are caught up to meet Jesus and escort him back to earth, then there won’t be any sheep left on earth when Jesus arrives. All that would be left is goats, who will be sentenced to the eternal flame.

The sine qua non of Dispensationism is to keep the Church and Israel separate for all eternity. The Church did not replace Israel, Israel's program is just delayed for as long as the Church Age is present.

The Church is exempt from the wrath of God (1 Thes 5.9, i.e., the Tribulation). The wrath of God is the unique event called the Day of the Lord, which is preceded by the Rapture.

The Church is a mystery in God’s overall plan. No Rapture is mentioned in the OT, while the second coming is taught in the OT.

Of Christ’s return to earth, the Rapture is phase one of the return of Christ, while the second coming is phase two of his coming. I have no problem counting the Rapture as Christ's mystery coming as per 1 Cor 15.

The Rapture could happen at any time, but the second coming is preceded by many signs. The second coming can be calculated to the very day as to when he will return. 7 years from the signing of the peace treaty of Daniel 9, and 3 1/2 years from the AD of the Antichrist.

No judgment is said to occur at the time of the Rapture, whereas judgment at the second coming is quite clear.

Post Trib believers have a big dilemma at the second coming, which happens just before that Millennial Kingdom. There are no believers in their natural bodies who enter the Millennium to repopulate the earth.

GJohn 14 1-3 indicates that Jesus is coming to take his bride to the place where he lives, in heaven at his Father’s house.

The saints are killed on a massive scale during the Tribulation. But the scriptures teach that the Church is exempt from the Tribulation.

 

[Galgal]

There is no translation of believers into new bodies in Scripture. "Body" is singular, referring to the Body of Christ in which they are saved. This is a spiritual Body that unites those saved by Christ. Physically saved people remain in their previous bodies, only the general status of believers changes. From being persecuted by the world, believers become victors of this world.

There is no "rapture" in Scripture in the sense of a physical removal from this world to another world. The "rapture" occurs in this world. The "rapture" is the aliyah of the five wise virgins to the Lord in Israel, which will take place in a multitude of people ("in the clouds") and will occur in the socio-political environment of this world ("in the air"). The Second Coming of Christ occurs before the rapture. Because the rapture occurs to the Bridegroom for the wedding feast, and not vice versa. The coming of the Bridegroom will occur in Israel after the construction of the Third Temple in the Judean Desert, according to the prophecy of Ezekiel. When the "full number of the Gentiles" enters the eastern gate of the Temple, then at the moment of closing the eastern gate the Body of Christ will be determined, consisting of those who entered. In this spiritual Body the salvation of all the rest takes place, first the Jews, who will receive the messengers of Christ in Israel, then the five wise virgins, who will be raptured to Israel to the Lord who appeared there.

The result of these events will be the appearance on the earth of Israel, which will become the incarnation of Jesus Christ in the Second Coming, will shepherd all nations with a rod of iron.

 

[KUWN]

The Second Coming of Christ occurs before the rapture.

I know of no scholar, pre trib or post trib, who teaches this. It would appear that you are neither a pre trib or post trib. You are espousing a belief that no rapture advocate holds. Would you mind explaining this anomaly and how you arrive at this statement that the Second Coming comes BEFORE the Rapture.

 

[Galgal]

I know of no scholar, pre trib or post trib, who teaches this. It would appear that you are neither a pre trib or post trib. You are espousing a belief that no rapture advocate holds. Would you mind explaining this anomaly and how you arrive at this statement that the Second Coming comes BEFORE the Rapture.

Then said the Lord unto me; This gate shall be shut, it shall not be opened, and no man shall enter in by it; because the Lord, the God of Israel, hath entered in by it, therefore it shall be shut. (Ezekiel 44:2)

Here is described the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. There is not and cannot be an entry into the eastern gate of the Temple of another "God of Israel" except the appearance of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Ezekiel describes a specific Temple that will be built in a specific place (not Jerusalem). This Temple is shown to Ezekiel (and to us) by God, so the embodiment of this Temple is the embodiment of the Word of God.

And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. (Matthew 24:31)

they shall gather together his elect from the four winds - a specific place must be indicated where God will gather the elect.

The only way to indicate one common place for the gathering of the elect is to show that place in the Bible. At the beginning, Ezekiel describes in detail the dimensions of the Temple. If God Himself had to build this Temple, He would not have needed to indicate all the dimensions in such detail. So, the dimensions of the Temple are given for us to build this Temple.

After 3 chapters of description of the dimensions, it is written that the glory of the Lord will enter the eastern gate of the Temple. What is "the glory of the Lord"?

Whether any do enquire of Titus, he is my partner and fellowhelper concerning you: or our brethren be enquired of, they are the messengers of the churches, and the glory of Christ. (2 Corinthians 8:23)

This is the "full number of the Gentiles." At first, the “full number of the Gentiles” will enter through the eastern gate of the Temple; they are also “the elect from the four winds,” they are also the “Philadelphian Church” of Revelation.

After the eastern gate is closed, all those who enter will become the incarnation of Jesus Christ at the Second Coming. That is, the moment of closing the eastern gate will become that "twinkling of an eye" when the status of people who entered the eastern gate will change. The angel of the Philadelphia church will become equal to God, it is written that the Jews will worship Him, and God forbade worshiping simple angels.

So the Bridegroom has come, after this the "five wise virgins" must be taken (raptured) to Him for the wedding feast. But this cannot happen immediately, because first the elect from the four winds must be received by the carnal Israelites, the Jews. Therefore there will be several months of vials of wrath, against the carnal in religions, and against this world.

The Jews will receive those who entered the eastern gate after the 6th vial of wrath. "The great river Euphrates" is an image of Judaism. When Judaism dries up, the way will open for the "kings from the rising sun", the "lost tribes of Israel", who are hidden in the bowels of the believers from among the "five wise virgins".

But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. (Romans 2:29)

After the completion of the Aliyah of the "five wise virgins", the city of Yahweh Shammah will appear in Israel. This city has 12 gates with the names of the tribes of Israel. This indicates that by this time the lost tribes of Israel will have already been resurrected, embodied in the union of the heavenly and the earthly, Jews in the flesh and Jews in the spirit.

The emergence of the city of Yahweh Shammah in Israel corresponds to the main holiday of the Torah, Simchat Torah, it will be the 7th vial of wrath poured into the air.

Instead of the "prince of the power of the air", the Spirit of Christ will dominate the atmosphere of this world.

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
(1 Thessalonians 4:16,17)

First, the Lord will come down from heaven to earth, and He will remain on earth, in the Third Temple, in Israel.

Next, the dead Jewish people will be resurrected, receiving the saints who entered the eastern gate of the Temple.

After this, those who remained faithful to the Lord in the "hour of temptation" will be taken by force to the Lord in Israel.

caught up - "taken by force," as in John 6:15.
clouds - "multitudes of people," as in Hebrews 12:1.
air - "the midst of this world," as in Ephesians 2:2.

 

[Galgal]

This is what the Third Temple described by Ezekiel looks like:


This is what the future borders of Israel and the distribution of territories between the resurrected tribes look like:



When this is fulfilled, there will be practically no unbelievers left on earth, the whole world will believe.

 

[Douggg]

The Rapture could happen at any time, but the second coming is preceded by many signs.

"any time" between now and the day the Antichrist goes into the temple and commits the Transgression of Desolation act.

 

[Keraz]

We Christians will not and cannot be physically removed from this earth. Heaven is a place for Spirit beings and 'rapture to heaven' believers, of whatever timing; know this, so their answer to that is: we are 'changed' and made immortal at the moment of rapture. This ignores the plain scripture of Revelation 20:11-15, of how it is only at the Great White Throne Judgement, that immortality is conferred to those whose names are found in the Book of Life. The 'change at the twinkle of an eye', in Corinthians 15, is a prophecy about what happens at the GWT, AFTER the Millennium.

Re: the word 'escape' in Luke 21:36. This is rendered as 'pass safely through' in the Revised English Bible.
Although 'escape' is one way of translating the Greek word there, to do that is to directly conflict with the context of the immediately preceding verse 35, that says what will happen; 'will come upon everyone the whole world over'. The REB correctly renders Luke 21:34-36.

Certainly, verse 36 does not even hint of a rapture to heaven; that has to be imposed onto the text.

Re; Revelation 3:10. Being 'kept from', doesn't mean taken away from. The 3 men in the fiery furnace weren't taken out of it, they were protected in it. Noah went thru the Flood, people today face persecution; it’s simply illogical and totally unscriptural to even think that suddenly God will allow His people to 'escape, away from’, trials and testing, let alone take them all up to heaven before Judgement!

The other aspect of a 'rapture to heaven', is what does God really want of His people? We have the Great Commission. Matthew 28:19 When did, or when will, God rescind that?

So what will the Lord do for His faithful people?
Most will know that I point out how the Lord's holy people, that is: every faithful Christian, will be gathered into all of the holy Land, Psalm 107, Ezekiel 34:11-16, where they will be the people God always wanted in His Land, being His witnesses, Isaiah 43:10, John 15:27 and His Light to the nations. Isaiah 49:8, Matthew 5:14-15

I have plenty of Biblical proofs of this. It is what will happen, any other belief is deception.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

The Rapture could happen at any time,

Not true... it will happen sometime after the man of sin is revealed to the world, who is the anti-christ

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him (speaking of the catching away, or rapture),
That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition

*The phrase ”Gathering together”
Strongs 1997 = from 1996; a complete collection; especially a Christian meeting (for worship): -- assembling (gathering) together.
Strongs 1996 = from 1909 and 4863; to collect upon the same place: KJV -- gather (together).

*The phrase ”Falling Away”
Strongs 646 = feminine of the same as 647; defection from truth (properly, the state) ("apostasy"): KJV -- falling away, forsake.
Strongs 647 = neuter of a (presumed) adjective from a derivative of 868; properly, something separative, i.e. (specially) divorce: KJV -- (writing of) divorcement.
Strongs 868 = from 575 and 2476; to remove, i.e. (actively) instigate to revolt; usually (reflexively) to desist, desert, etc.: KJV -- depart, draw (fall) away, refrain, withdraw self.

*Same word is translated “forsake” in Acts 21:21 - so this is what the word means: many will forsake the Lord (speaking of those that were Christians but fall away)

Definitions point to the rapture not happening until many who claim to be Christians fall away from the faith, and the anti-christ is revealed

This would mean the traditional pre-trib rapture view could not be correct
where Christians are taken out before the anti-christ is revealed, but instead Christians will be here leading up to the start of the anti-christ coming to power

Some claim the word translated “falling away” really means rapture… if that were true, then 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 would say the rapture won't happen until the rapture happens and the anti-christ be revealed which it does NOT say.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Would you mind explaining this anomaly and how you arrive at this statement that the Second Coming comes BEFORE the Rapture.

That's not taught in scripture at all

 

[KUWN]

There is no translation of believers into new bodies in Scripture. "Body" is singular, referring to the Body of Christ in which they are saved. This is a spiritual Body that unites those saved by Christ. Physically saved people remain in their previous bodies, only the general status of believers changes. From being persecuted by the world, believers become victors of this world.

There is no "rapture" in Scripture in the sense of a physical removal from this world to another world. The "rapture" occurs in this world. The "rapture" is the aliyah of the five wise virgins to the Lord in Israel, which will take place in a multitude of people ("in the clouds") and will occur in the socio-political environment of this world ("in the air"). The Second Coming of Christ occurs before the rapture. Because the rapture occurs to the Bridegroom for the wedding feast, and not vice versa. The coming of the Bridegroom will occur in Israel after the construction of the Third Temple in the Judean Desert, according to the prophecy of Ezekiel. When the "full number of the Gentiles" enters the eastern gate of the Temple, then at the moment of closing the eastern gate the Body of Christ will be determined, consisting of those who entered. In this spiritual Body the salvation of all the rest takes place, first the Jews, who will receive the messengers of Christ in Israel, then the five wise virgins, who will be raptured to Israel to the Lord who appeared there.

The result of these events will be the appearance on the earth of Israel, which will become the incarnation of Jesus Christ in the Second Coming, will shepherd all nations with a rod of iron.

The Third Temple, according to the prophecy of Ezekiel, will be the place of the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.

Christ returns to Bozrah first, then moves up to Jerusalem, to Mt Olivet, not the temple

 

[Galgal]

The Third Temple, according to the prophecy of Ezekiel, will be the place of the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.

Christ returns to Bozrah first, then moves up to Jerusalem, to Mt Olivet, not the temple

The Mount of Olives is moved by the word of the Lord to the Judean Desert, to the place where the Third Temple will be built. "The feet of the Lord" are the evangelists who will stand on this forked mountain.

 

[tailgator]

The word rapture is found in the Bible in Paul’s writings, more than once. Those who claim the word Rapture does not appear in the Bible have no biblical basis for such a claim.

The rapture is defined as a single event, whereas apostasy is a process that has no definable beginning and end. An Apostasy is not something you can point to as an event. Apostasy can be interpreted as ‘departure.’

Irenaeus, as of today, has the oldest Pre-Trib statement made, in the second century! No, the Rapture did not first come on the scene with Darby.

The Rapture takes place before the beginning of the Day of the Lord (aka, The Tribulation).

The Rapture has no antecedent signs; it comes as a thief in the night, hence the Rapture could happen any time, it is, unlike the Second Coming, imminent. This was the belief of the early Church.

The primary purpose of the Rapture is to end the Church dispensation and resume the Jewish age. There are 7 years left until the Jewish dispensation is over with.

Rev 3.10 states that the Church will be removed from the time of the Tribulation.

If the Lord will keep us safe during the Trib, as Post-Trib claim, why have a Rapture at all, surely the Lord can keep us safe at the end of the Trib. A Rapture at the time of the second coming serves no prophetic purpose.

If the Rapture and the Second Coming occur together, as post tribbers believe, and all living believers are caught up to meet Jesus and escort him back to earth, then there won’t be any sheep left on earth when Jesus arrives. All that would be left is goats, who will be sentenced to the eternal flame.

The sine qua non of Dispensationism is to keep the Church and Israel separate for all eternity. The Church did not replace Israel, Israel's program is just delayed for as long as the Church Age is present.

The Church is exempt from the wrath of God (1 Thes 5.9, i.e., the Tribulation). The wrath of God is the unique event called the Day of the Lord, which is preceded by the Rapture.

The Church is a mystery in God’s overall plan. No Rapture is mentioned in the OT, while the second coming is taught in the OT.

Of Christ’s return to earth, the Rapture is phase one of the return of Christ, while the second coming is phase two of his coming. I have no problem counting the Rapture as Christ's mystery coming as per 1 Cor 15.

The Rapture could happen at any time, but the second coming is preceded by many signs. The second coming can be calculated to the very day as to when he will return. 7 years from the signing of the peace treaty of Daniel 9, and 3 1/2 years from the AD of the Antichrist.

No judgment is said to occur at the time of the Rapture, whereas judgment at the second coming is quite clear.

Post Trib believers have a big dilemma at the second coming, which happens just before that Millennial Kingdom. There are no believers in their natural bodies who enter the Millennium to repopulate the earth.

GJohn 14 1-3 indicates that Jesus is coming to take his bride to the place where he lives, in heaven at his Father’s house.

The saints are killed on a massive scale during the Tribulation. But the scriptures teach that the Church is exempt from the Tribulation.

You say the word rapture is in the bible but you can't quote any verse that contains the word.

The people who say the word rapture is not in the bible were telling the truth.

 

[KUWN]

You say the word rapture is in the bible but you can't quote any verse that contains the word.

The people who say the word rapture is not in the bible were telling the truth.

1 Thes 4.17 ἔπειτα ἡμεῖς οἱ ζῶντες οἱ περιλειπόμενοι ἅμα σὺν αὐτοῖς ἁρπαγησόμεθα ἐν νεφέλαις εἰς ἀπάντησιν τοῦ κυρίου εἰς ἀέρα· καὶ οὕτως πάντοτε σὺν κυρίῳ ἐσόμεθα.18 Ὥστε παρακαλεῖτε ἀλλήλους ἐν τοῖς λόγοις τούτοις.

There it is, just a plain as day. Remember, I said the Bible, not a Translation, like you use, which are the words of man. BTW, if you want more occurrences of rapture, just let me know.

 

[tailgator]

1 Thes 4.17 ἔπειτα ἡμεῖς οἱ ζῶντες οἱ περιλειπόμενοι ἅμα σὺν αὐτοῖς ἁρπαγησόμεθα ἐν νεφέλαις εἰς ἀπάντησιν τοῦ κυρίου εἰς ἀέρα· καὶ οὕτως πάντοτε σὺν κυρίῳ ἐσόμεθα.18 Ὥστε παρακαλεῖτε ἀλλήλους ἐν τοῖς λόγοις τούτοις.

There it is, just a plain as day. Remember, I said the Bible, not a Translation, like you use, which are the words of man. BTW, if you want more occurrences of rapture, just let me know.

There it isn't.

The English word rapture is not found in any bible.Not the Latin ,Greek ,or English bibles.Its based on a Latin word rapio from the greek word raptus which means seized or carried away,but the Greek 1 Thes 4:17 does not use the word raptus.

The Koine Greek of 1 Thessalonians 4:17 uses the verb form ἁρπαγησόμεθα (harpagēsometha), which means "we shall be caught up" or "we shall be taken away".


Like I says.The word rapture is not found in the bible.Not any bible

 

[tailgator]

The word rapture is found in the Bible in Paul’s writings, more than once. Those who claim the word Rapture does not appear in the Bible have no biblical basis for such a claim.

The rapture is defined as a single event, whereas apostasy is a process that has no definable beginning and end. An Apostasy is not something you can point to as an event. Apostasy can be interpreted as ‘departure.’

Irenaeus, as of today, has the oldest Pre-Trib statement made, in the second century! No, the Rapture did not first come on the scene with Darby.

The Rapture takes place before the beginning of the Day of the Lord (aka, The Tribulation).

The Rapture has no antecedent signs; it comes as a thief in the night, hence the Rapture could happen any time, it is, unlike the Second Coming, imminent. This was the belief of the early Church.

The primary purpose of the Rapture is to end the Church dispensation and resume the Jewish age. There are 7 years left until the Jewish dispensation is over with.

Rev 3.10 states that the Church will be removed from the time of the Tribulation.

If the Lord will keep us safe during the Trib, as Post-Trib claim, why have a Rapture at all, surely the Lord can keep us safe at the end of the Trib. A Rapture at the time of the second coming serves no prophetic purpose.

If the Rapture and the Second Coming occur together, as post tribbers believe, and all living believers are caught up to meet Jesus and escort him back to earth, then there won’t be any sheep left on earth when Jesus arrives. All that would be left is goats, who will be sentenced to the eternal flame.

The sine qua non of Dispensationism is to keep the Church and Israel separate for all eternity. The Church did not replace Israel, Israel's program is just delayed for as long as the Church Age is present.

The Church is exempt from the wrath of God (1 Thes 5.9, i.e., the Tribulation). The wrath of God is the unique event called the Day of the Lord, which is preceded by the Rapture.

The Church is a mystery in God’s overall plan. No Rapture is mentioned in the OT, while the second coming is taught in the OT.

Of Christ’s return to earth, the Rapture is phase one of the return of Christ, while the second coming is phase two of his coming. I have no problem counting the Rapture as Christ's mystery coming as per 1 Cor 15.

The Rapture could happen at any time, but the second coming is preceded by many signs. The second coming can be calculated to the very day as to when he will return. 7 years from the signing of the peace treaty of Daniel 9, and 3 1/2 years from the AD of the Antichrist.

No judgment is said to occur at the time of the Rapture, whereas judgment at the second coming is quite clear.

Post Trib believers have a big dilemma at the second coming, which happens just before that Millennial Kingdom. There are no believers in their natural bodies who enter the Millennium to repopulate the earth.

GJohn 14 1-3 indicates that Jesus is coming to take his bride to the place where he lives, in heaven at his Father’s house.

The saints are killed on a massive scale during the Tribulation. But the scriptures teach that the Church is exempt from the Tribulation.

From my observations of scripture,the saints in Israel who do not worship the beast are killed during the tribulation(persecution).

Revelation 6
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.


After this tribulation (persecution)The church (from all nations)comes out of the 6th seal great tribulation.(Wrath of God)

Revelation 7
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,

12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.

13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

 

[KUWN]

After this tribulation (persecution)The church (from all nations)comes out of the 6th seal great tribulation.(Wrath of God)

Revelation 7
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Remember that God's/the Lamb's wrath first occurs in Rev 6 (see for example verse 16). The church is exempt (3.10) from the time of the Tribulation, which is the final 7 years of the Jewish Disposition. In Rev 19, the bride has made herself ready, and then returns with Christ and other heavenly beings. And the Church has already been rewarded in heaven. The Rewards were handed out at the Rewards Ceremony, a better translation would by The Rewards Ceremony, and not the Judgment Seat of Christ. Note that in the OT, God judged the elect nation of Israel by using other peoples and nations.

 

[tailgator]

Remember that God's/the Lamb's wrath first occurs in Rev 6 (see for example verse 16). The church is exempt (3.10) from the time of the Tribulation, which is the final 7 years of the Jewish Disposition. In Rev 19, the bride has made herself ready, and then returns with Christ and other heavenly beings. And the Church has already been rewarded in heaven. The Rewards were handed out at the Rewards Ceremony, a better translation would by The Rewards Ceremony, and not the Judgment Seat of Christ. Note that in the OT, God judged the elect nation of Israel by using other peoples and nations.

False.

The great tribulation which the church comes out of does not last 7 years.

The persecution of the body of Christ in revelation 6 where in their breathren must be killed as they were only last 42 months.

The saints of God are not given into the hand of the beast for no more than 42 months.Not seven years.

Where do you get your unbiblical doctrine from?

Revelation 13
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.



This tribulation of the christians only lasts 42 months.Not ,7 years

 

[KUWN]

Where do you get your unbiblical doctrine from?

I am looking for someone more scholarly to discuss this with. You have been blocked from interacting with me.

 

[tailgator]

I am looking for someone more scholarly to discuss this with. You have been blocked from interacting with me.

No,you are looking for a fool to believe your unbiblical doctrine.You hate when someone points out your errors.

 

[Keraz]

I am looking for someone more scholarly to discuss this with. You have been blocked from interacting with me.

As the Bible never says the Lord will take His people to heaven and says several times that such a thing is impossible; there is nothing to discuss.
But now, if you want to talk about what the Prophets really do tell us about Gods plans for our future, then there is plenty to discuss and know of forthcoming dramatic events.