ROMANS: CHRIST DIED FOR US

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Doug

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2018
3,065
499
83
south
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Romans 5:6-8 KJV - 6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Christ died for us, the ungodly, while we were sinners.

All are under sin. There is nothing we can do to make ourselves righteous and acceptable to God:

Galatians 3:22 KJV - 22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Romans 3:12 KJV - 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

We can not turn from our sins and make ourselves clean to be accepted seeing we are dead in sins:

Ephesians 2:1 KJV - 1 And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins;

We can only be justified unto eternal life by the redemption in Christ Jesus and his blood:

Romans 5:9 KJV - 9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

We can only be reconciled to God by the death of Christ for us:

Romans 5:10 KJV - For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

We have eternal life now and have now received the atonement (the reconciliation) , we can add nothing to what Christ has done:

Romans 5:11 KJV - And not only [so], but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
 

LoveYeshua

Member
Sep 25, 2024
286
94
28
Quebec
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Romans 5:6-8 KJV - 6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Christ died for us, the ungodly, while we were sinners.

All are under sin. There is nothing we can do to make ourselves righteous and acceptable to God:

Galatians 3:22 KJV - 22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Romans 3:12 KJV - 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

We can not turn from our sins and make ourselves clean to be accepted seeing we are dead in sins:

Ephesians 2:1 KJV - 1 And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins;

We can only be justified unto eternal life by the redemption in Christ Jesus and his blood:

Romans 5:9 KJV - 9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

We can only be reconciled to God by the death of Christ for us:

Romans 5:10 KJV - For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

We have eternal life now and have now received the atonement (the reconciliation) , we can add nothing to what Christ has done:

Romans 5:11 KJV - And not only [so], but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
Doug, No scripture from Matthew, John, Luke and Mark? all the details are in these books. you are missing a lot.
 

Doug

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2018
3,065
499
83
south
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Doug, No scripture from Matthew, John, Luke and Mark? all the details are in these books. you are missing a lot.
Show me from them where Jesus died and shed his blood for all
Show me where we are saved without the law
 

Doug

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2018
3,065
499
83
south
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Doug, No scripture from Matthew, John, Luke and Mark? all the details are in these books. you are missing a lot.
Show me from them where Jesus died and shed his blood for all
Show me where we are saved without the law
 

Doug

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2018
3,065
499
83
south
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Doug, No scripture from Matthew, John, Luke and Mark? all the details are in these books. you are missing a lot.
I asked this twice...did you miss it?
Show me from them where Jesus died and shed his blood for all
Show me where we are saved without the law
 

LoveYeshua

Member
Sep 25, 2024
286
94
28
Quebec
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
I asked this twice...did you miss it?
Show me from them where Jesus died and shed his blood for all.
Show me where we are saved without the law
sorry yes I missed it, ill get back to you, i will get the verses for you and explain.

Blessings
 

LoveYeshua

Member
Sep 25, 2024
286
94
28
Quebec
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
I asked this twice...did you miss it?
Show me from them where Jesus died and shed his blood for all
Show me where we are saved without the law
Hi Doug, Here is the main verse where Jesus said he would shed his blood for all. I will explain in detail but before I cite this verse in the text below in red, I will explain the origins of blood sacrifice, that way is is easier to understand.

" This is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. "
(Matthew 26:28)


The concept of blood as a means of atoning for sin has deep roots in the Bible, beginning with the earliest accounts of human sin and God's provision for its remedy. After Adam and Eve sinned in the Garden of Eden, their eyes were opened to their nakedness, and they attempted to cover themselves with fig leaves. However, in God's mercy, He provided a more lasting solution: He made garments of animal skins for them. In order for God to clothe Adam and Eve in these skins, an animal had to be killed, which represents the first instance of bloodshed in Scripture. While the text doesn’t explicitly say this was for atonement, it can be understood as a foreshadowing of the need for a sacrifice to cover sin. The shedding of blood to cover the nakedness and shame caused by sin becomes a theme that runs throughout the Bible, pointing forward to the ultimate sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

We see that the shedding of blood becomes a key element in the Levitical sacrificial system, which God instituted to maintain a relationship with His people and deal with the problem of sin. In the Book of Leviticus, God specifically commands the Israelites to offer animal sacrifices, and in Leviticus 17:11, He explains the significance of blood: "For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it for you on the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement by the life." In this context, the blood of sacrificed animals becomes a symbol of life given in exchange for the sinner's life. The animal's death was a substitute for the sinner, acknowledging the principle that sin brings death, and only by the shedding of blood could there be forgiveness and reconciliation with God.

One of the most significant rituals involving blood in the Old Testament is the Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur), described in Leviticus 16. Once a year, On this day, the high priest would enter the Holy of Holies, the innermost part of the tabernacle or temple, and sprinkle the blood of a sacrificial animal on the Mercy Seat—the cover of the Ark of the Covenant. This act symbolized the covering of the people's sins and the restoration of their relationship with God. In Leviticus 16:15-16, we read: "Then he shall kill the goat of the sin offering that is for the people and bring its blood inside the veil and do with its blood as he did with the blood of the bull, sprinkling it over the mercy seat and in front of the mercy seat." The high priest performed this ritual on behalf of the entire nation of Israel, seeking God's forgiveness for their sins and the restoration of peace with Him.

The Ark of the Covenant itself held great significance in Israel's worship. It contained the tablets of the Law, the manna from the wilderness, and Aaron's staff that budded, serving as a reminder of God's provision and His covenant with his people. The Mercy Seat—the golden cover of the Ark—was the place where God's presence dwelled. It was here, above the Mercy Seat, that the high priest would sprinkle the blood of the sacrifice, signifying that the people's sins were covered by the blood, allowing them to be in right standing with God. The blood that was sprinkled on the Mercy Seat acted as a symbol of God's mercy, covering over sin and preventing His judgment from falling on the people.

In the New Testament, Jesus Christ fulfills and transcends the Old Testament sacrificial system. In Matthew 26:28, during the Last Supper, Jesus speaks of His blood as the "blood of the covenant" that is poured out for the forgiveness of sins. This moment is a direct reference to the New Covenant He was about to inaugurate with His death. Just as the blood of animals was used to cover sin in the Old Covenant, so now the blood of Jesus would be shed once and for all, securing forgiveness and reconciliation with God for all who believe in Him. Jesus' blood is the ultimate atonement, fulfilling what the blood of animal sacrifices could only symbolically accomplish.

This connection between Jesus' blood and the blood sprinkled on the Mercy Seat is significant. In the Old Testament, the high priest's sprinkling of blood on the Ark symbolized the temporary covering of sin. However, Jesus' sacrifice—His blood poured out on the cross—provides the final and perfect covering for sin, not just for the Israelites but for all people, once and for all. The writer of Hebrews makes this point in Hebrews 9:11-15, where he explains that Jesus entered into the heavenly Holy of Holies, not with the blood of animals but with His own blood, securing eternal redemption for humanity.

"But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that have come, He went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not made by human hands, that is, not of this creation. He did not enter by the blood of goats and calves, but by His own blood, thus securing eternal redemption. The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean. How much more then will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God! For this reason, Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, now that He has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant."
(Hebrews 9:11-15)

In the Old Covenant, blood was used to symbolize life and to temporarily cover sin. But in the New Covenant, Jesus' blood is the true and final atoning sacrifice. His death on the cross, marked by the shedding of His blood, opened the way for permanent forgiveness and eternal reconciliation with God. Where the blood of animals could only provide temporary atonement, the blood of Jesus provides a once-for-all solution to the problem of sin.

Through the sprinkling of blood on the Mercy Seat, the Day of Atonement rituals pointed forward to the ultimate sacrifice of Christ, whose blood would not only cover sin temporarily but would take away sin forever. Jesus' blood, poured out on the cross, serves as the fulfillment of everything that the sacrificial system of the Old Testament foreshadowed. His sacrifice opened the way for all people to be forgiven, reconciled to God, and brought into a new relationship with Him, secured by the blood of Christ.

Thus, the act of sprinkling blood on the Mercy Seat in the Old Testament finds its ultimate fulfillment in the blood of Jesus, who, through His death, provided the final atonement for sin and established the New Covenant in His blood, making eternal redemption available to all who believe in Him.

1737640216893.pngsource of image:The Ark of the Covenant
 
Last edited:

LoveYeshua

Member
Sep 25, 2024
286
94
28
Quebec
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Show me where we are saved without the law
To answer that question I will be honest , in the bible only Paul says this and no one else

To my knowledge In short, Jesus fulfilled the law, and through His death and resurrection. The law itself, especially its moral teachings, reflects God’s eternal character and is not discarded, but its role in salvation has been completed in Christ. Now, believers are called to live according to the law’s moral principles, the 10 commandments empowered by the Holy Spirit, while recognizing that their salvation comes through Christ alone.

First, we need to understand the meaning of the word "fulfill" in Matthew 5:17. Jesus did not say He came to abolish the law, which is often misunderstood as meaning the law would be irrelevant. Instead, He came to fulfill it. To fulfill in this context means to complete or bring something to its intended end. Jesus’ life, death, and resurrection perfectly fulfilled the law and the prophecies that were part of it. This means that Jesus fulfilled the moral law by perfectly obeying it. He lived a life without sin, which no one else could do. He also fulfilled the ceremonial law by being the perfect sacrifice for sin. All the sacrifices in the Old Testament pointed to Him as the Lamb of God who would take away the sin of the world. Jesus fulfilled the prophetic law, meaning that He was the fulfillment of all the Messianic prophecies written in the law and the prophets.

since the New covenant is defined by the 10 commandments, representing GOD's moral principles and are internalized in our heart with at it's core LOVE for God and our neighbour, we then fulfill GOD's requirements and follow HIS will.

Everything in the Bible points to Christ.

“When Jesus spoke again to the people, He said, ‘I am the light of the world. Whoever follows Me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.’”
(JOHN 8:12)

If you have more questions let me know.
 

Doug

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2018
3,065
499
83
south
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
" This is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. "
(Matthew 26:28)
Very informative post on the blood....thanks for the time and effort it took

The problem in using this verse is Jesus shed his blood for many not all
He shed his blood for the transgressions of Israel under the first covenant (Hebrews 9:15)
Paul manifests his blood for all
 

Doug

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2018
3,065
499
83
south
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
To answer that question I will be honest , in the bible only Paul says this and no one else

To my knowledge In short, Jesus fulfilled the law, and through His death and resurrection. The law itself, especially its moral teachings, reflects God’s eternal character and is not discarded, but its role in salvation has been completed in Christ. Now, believers are called to live according to the law’s moral principles, the 10 commandments empowered by the Holy Spirit, while recognizing that their salvation comes through Christ alone.

First, we need to understand the meaning of the word "fulfill" in Matthew 5:17. Jesus did not say He came to abolish the law, which is often misunderstood as meaning the law would be irrelevant. Instead, He came to fulfill it. To fulfill in this context means to complete or bring something to its intended end. Jesus’ life, death, and resurrection perfectly fulfilled the law and the prophecies that were part of it. This means that Jesus fulfilled the moral law by perfectly obeying it. He lived a life without sin, which no one else could do. He also fulfilled the ceremonial law by being the perfect sacrifice for sin. All the sacrifices in the Old Testament pointed to Him as the Lamb of God who would take away the sin of the world. Jesus fulfilled the prophetic law, meaning that He was the fulfillment of all the Messianic prophecies written in the law and the prophets.

since the New covenant is defined by the 10 commandments, representing GOD's moral principles and are internalized in our heart with at it's core LOVE for God and our neighbour, we then fulfill GOD's requirements and follow HIS will.

Everything in the Bible points to Christ.

“When Jesus spoke again to the people, He said, ‘I am the light of the world. Whoever follows Me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.’”
(JOHN 8:12)

If you have more questions let me know.
I will get back
 

Doug

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2018
3,065
499
83
south
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
To my knowledge In short, Jesus fulfilled the law, and through His death and resurrection. The law itself, especially its moral teachings, reflects God’s eternal character and is not discarded, but its role in salvation has been completed in Christ. Now, believers are called to live according to the law’s moral principles, the 10 commandments empowered by the Holy Spirit, while recognizing that their salvation comes through Christ alone.
I must admit I am confused
Here you say the commandments were fulfilled in Christ and we are to live after the Spirit
Before you said we had to obey the commandments to enter the kingdom
 

LoveYeshua

Member
Sep 25, 2024
286
94
28
Quebec
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Very informative post on the blood....thanks for the time and effort it took

The problem in using this verse is Jesus shed his blood for many not all
He shed his blood for the transgressions of Israel under the first covenant (Hebrews 9:15)
Paul manifests his blood for all
thank you for the comment much appreciated. You have to fix this , that to think everything is for Israel it is not what the bible says.

If we look at the verse:

Heb 9:15 Therefore Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, now that He has died to redeem them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.

this does nor say it is for Israel but for all who believe or are called.


I will prove it with a verse that Jesus to whom all authority was given says here;

Mat 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.

Mat 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit,

Mat 28:20 and teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

This cannot be denied all Jesus did and was teaching was preached to all including the gentiles, they preached first to Israel then to everyone on the earth. this is a fact and is certain!

What do you mean by :""Paul manifests his blood for all""??

Blessings.
 

Doug

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2018
3,065
499
83
south
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Heb 9:15 Therefore Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, now that He has died to redeem them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.

this does nor say it is for Israel but for all who believe or are called.
[Heb 9:15 KJV] 15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions [that were] under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Israel was given the first testament
 
  • Like
Reactions: LoveYeshua

Doug

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2018
3,065
499
83
south
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I will prove it with a verse that Jesus to whom all authority was given says here;

Mat 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.

Mat 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit,

Mat 28:20 and teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”
This was given to the twelve and is to be enacted in the kingdom on earth
 

LoveYeshua

Member
Sep 25, 2024
286
94
28
Quebec
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
I must admit I am confused
Here you say the commandments were fulfilled in Christ and we are to live after the Spirit
Before you said we had to obey the commandments to enter the kingdom
I explained that fulfilled DOES NOT MEAN FINISHED! it is GOD through the HOLY spirit that calls is to repentance from sin. SIn Is defined by GOD's eternal Moral law the 10 Commandments, we have to keep them to enter the Kingdom that is ceertain;

There are verses that speak about the importance of obedience to God’s commandments in relation to salvation and entrance into the Kingdom.


One key verse is Revelation 22:14 (KJV)

"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city."

This verse implies that obedience to God's commandments is connected to gaining access to the "tree of life" and entering the heavenly city, which is often understood as the Kingdom of God.

Also, the general idea that keeping God's commandments is essential for eternal life is reflected throughout Scripture, especially in the Gospels (e.g., Matthew 19:17 and John 14:15), and it's echoed in the teachings of Revelation about those who are faithful to God.

Mat 19:17 “Why do you ask Me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.

Jhn 14:15 If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

All the words of Jesus are true and easy to understand.

Blessings
 

LoveYeshua

Member
Sep 25, 2024
286
94
28
Quebec
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
[Heb 9:15 KJV] 15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions [that were] under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Israel was given the first testament
I Agree that Israel was given by GOD himself in person the first covenant ( 10 commandments) in the desert, they needed instructions also from Moses as instructed by god, there were all The laws added because of the transgression of Israel as I mentioned before. The israelites were a people held in captivity for 400 years, they worshipped strange Gods and were lost. Moses did a good Job but it was not easy for Him to lead this multitude ( over 1 million of memory serves me)

Know that later it was accepted that peoples not from Israel could join Israel by obeying the laws given to Israel here also it shows it can be for everyone that wants to become GOD's people. Do a bible search for the word "sojourn" in the old testament.

Blessings.
 

LoveYeshua

Member
Sep 25, 2024
286
94
28
Quebec
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
This was given to the twelve and is to be enacted in the kingdom on earth
what do you mean enacted in the kingdom?, the true Kingdom is not yet here but in the hearts of a few only. But be certain it is coming soon I think.

the disciples did as Jesus asked they spread the words of Jesus as far as they could at that time, we still have their message in the New testament today their testimony is clearly written.

Blessings
 

Doug

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2018
3,065
499
83
south
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
What do you mean by :""Paul manifests his blood for all""??
[Rom 3:22 KJV] 22 Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
[Rom 8:32 KJV] 32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
[1Ti 4:10 KJV] 10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
[Col 1:20 KJV] 20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, [I say], whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven.

Paul revealed that Christ's blood was shed to reconcile all, Jew and Greek....not just for the transgressions under the first covenant
 
  • Like
Reactions: LoveYeshua

LoveYeshua

Member
Sep 25, 2024
286
94
28
Quebec
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
[Rom 3:22 KJV] 22 Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
[Rom 8:32 KJV] 32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
[1Ti 4:10 KJV] 10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
[Col 1:20 KJV] 20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, [I say], whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven.

Paul revealed that Christ's blood was shed to reconcile all, Jew and Greek....not just for the transgressions under the first covenant
yes, I get it now, thank you.
 

Doug

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2018
3,065
499
83
south
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Know that later it was accepted that peoples not from Israel could join Israel by obeying the laws given to Israel here also it shows it can be for everyone that wants to become GOD's people. Do a bible search for the word "sojourn" in the old testament.
Gentiles could always be saved through Israel and follow the law
 
  • Like
Reactions: LoveYeshua