Exploring Trinitarian Logic

[St. SteVen]

Figurative. In V2, this (word) was with God in the beginning. The word was made flesh, not God was made flesh.

The Word was God. The Word became flesh.

John 1:1 NIV
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 NIV
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. ...

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[Wrangler]

Jesus was prophesied about, not seeing how this disproves the Trinity.

Because you don't want to see. The prophecy is of a man among the people of Israel, not God incarnate.

 

[RLT63]

Because you don't want to see. The prophecy is of a man among the people of Israel, not God incarnate.

He was a man
Rom 5:15 - But not as the offence, so also is the free gift.For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man,Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

 

[Wrangler]

The Word was God. The Word became flesh.

Right but God did not become flesh and this is because John never made the claim that Jesus was God incarnate. You are just ignoring all the verses that prove your dogma wrong. John is the most anti-trinitarian book of the Bible.

In today's devotional reading at chapter 3, we find at verse 2 and 17, it states that God sent his son. Not the father. God, in his unitarian nature. This is proof text that Jesus is NOT God.

If your take on 1:1 were correct such verses would not exist. Yet, they are ubiquitous. Back door rationalization to deny the explicit words of God. The father is the only true God. Why would Scripture say this explicitly and repeatedly if it were not true?

 

[RLT63]

Right but God did not become flesh and this is because John never made the claim that Jesus was God incarnate. You are just ignoring all the verses that prove your dogma wrong. John is the most anti-trinitarian book of the Bible.

In today's devotional reading at chapter 3, we find at verse 2 and 17, it states that God sent his son. Not the father. God, in his unitarian nature. This is proof text that Jesus is NOT God.

If your take on 1:1 were correct such verses would not exist. Yet, they are ubiquitous. Back door rationalization to deny the explicit words of God. The father is the only true God. Why would Scripture say this explicitly and repeatedly if it were not true?

It is you that is ignoring scripture. You say he is right then you deny it

 

[Wrangler]

It is you that is ignoring scripture. You say he is right then you deny it

Nope. I just deny the eisegesis of trinitarianism.

• Did you read Deut 18:15-18? Where a man from the people of Israel would be chosen to have God's words put in his mouth?
• Did you read 1:21, about the expected prophet?
• Did you read 1:45 where Philip tells Nathanael they found the very person Moses and the prophets wrote about? Affirming Deut 18:15-18?
• Who was this expected prophet?
• Did you read 3:2 and 3:17 where God (in his unitarian nature) sent Jesus? If Jesus were God incarnate such verses would not be written. Language Usage. No one sends themselves.

 

[RLT63]

Nope. I just deny the eisegesis of trinitarianism.

• Did you read Deut 18:15-18? Where a man from the people of Israel would be chosen to have God's words put in his mouth?
• Did you read 1:21, about the expected prophet?
• Did you read 1:45 where Philip tells Nathanael they found the very person Moses and the prophets wrote about? Affirming Deut 18:15-18?
• Who was this expected prophet?
• Did you read 3:2 and 3:17 where God (in his unitarian nature) sent Jesus? If Jesus were God incarnate such verses would not be written. Language Usage. No one sends themselves.

No one sends themselves.

You don't have a basic understanding of the Trinity

 

[Ritajanice]

Because you don't want to see. The prophecy is of a man among the people of Israel, not God incarnate.

Who carried out the will of God and brought everything to completion, just as God had planned before the foundation of the world....in Gods Name...

He came in the Name Of God...not as God himself .

He passed what he was sent to do by his Father God..would you agree?

I’m back, lol....the subject matter fascinates me.

 

[Wrangler]

No one sends themselves.

You don't have a basic understanding of the Trinity

You don't have a basic understanding of reading comprehension. The trinity is not in the Bible. Language Usage: No one sends themselves.

If the Trinity were correct doctrine v3:2 and 3:17 would read God the Father sent God the Son. Facts go against the trinity. Whereas, the word was God in invested with dogmatic significance, God (in his unitarian nature) sent Jesus has no meaning or significance at all in Trinityland. @face2face

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
The Word was God. The Word became flesh.

Right but God did not become flesh...

LOL
The Word = God
The Word/God became flesh (Jesus)

In today's devotional reading at chapter 3, we find at verse 2 and 17, it states that God sent his son. Not the father. God, in his unitarian nature. This is proof text that Jesus is NOT God.

"God sent His son." Who was Jesus Father?
God = God the Father.

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[Wrangler]

Who carried out the will of God and brought everything to completion, just as God had planned before the foundation of the world....in Gods Name....

God's name. Here is where JW, @Aunty Jane, have it right! God's name is not Jesus.

He taught us to start praying by acknowledging God's name as holy, which is YHWH (or in English, Jehovah). Trinitarians cannot start by acknowledging Jesus' God because they worship another god, a false god, a god that violates the 1C, the Lord's Prayer, definition, logic, language usage and explicit Scripture.

He passed what he was sent to do by his Father God..would you agree?

Absolutely agree!

I’m back, lol....the subject matter fascinates me.

The study of IDOLATRY is fascinating. In Christendom, I'd say the top 4 IDOLATRIES are:

4. The Pope is the vicar of Christ, our intermediary to Christ.​

3. OSAS*​

2. ECT, Eternal Conscious Torment, aka burn in hell forever.​

1. The trinity.​

​

* Christ said "IF you remain in me." This only makes sense if it is possible to NOT remain in Christ.

Nothing external can overcome the grace of God established by faith - except our internal faithlessness. I don't mean a simple incident of backsliding, giving in to temptation. I'm talking about rejecting the Spirit that saved you.

 

[RLT63]

You don't have a basic understanding of reading comprehension. The trinity is not in the Bible. Language Usage: No one sends themselves.

If the Trinity were correct doctrine v3:2 and 3:17 would read God the Father sent God the Son. Facts go against the trinity. Whereas, the word was God in invested with dogmatic significance, God (in his unitarian nature) sent Jesus has no meaning or significance at all in Trinityland. @face2face

Your frustration is showing when you resort to insults as you have been throughout this conversation.
You talk about reading comprehension, you can't understand John 1 and your argument is basically the same as saying the sun doesn't rise in the East.
Everyone can see through your ploy.

 

[Ritajanice]

Christ said "IF you remain in me." This only makes sense if it is possible to NOT remain in Christ.

If one has been Born Of The Spirit, the Spirit can never leave our spirit as it’s been permanently birthed by the Holy Spirit.

He will always remain in us, we are being conformed into Jesus image, therefore we still have that old man to deal with even though we have a new heart and spirit within, it’s being purified by the Spirit..plus our minds are being renewed day by day also.

That old man in us gets less as we are being conformed into Jesus image..I don’t believe he will ever truly die, not this side of Heaven....I had an incident today on the phone where the old man made an announcement, lol..darn pain in the neck he is...anyway, this is for another topic...just my thoughts.

 

[St. SteVen]

He taught us to start praying by acknowledging God's name as holy, which is YHWH (or in English, Jehovah). Trinitarians cannot start by acknowledging Jesus' God because they worship another god, a false god, a god that violates the 1C, the Lord's Prayer, definition, logic, language usage and explicit Scripture.

That saw cuts both ways.
I have resisted using it but here you go...
What would be the point of denying Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh if He wasn't God?

2 John 1:7 NIV
I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh,
have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.

[

 

[Wrangler]

Your frustration is showing when you resort to insults

Yea, right. More projecting.

You don't have a basic understanding of the Trinity

You don't have a basic understanding of reading comprehension. The trinity is not in the Bible.

The trinity is not in the Bible. This, you refuse to understand.

 

[Wrangler]

That saw cuts both ways.
I have resisted using it but here you go...
What would be the point of denying Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh if He wasn't God?

2 John 1:7 NIV
I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh,
have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.

[

Again, I reject your implied premise. Nowhere does Scripture say Jesus was God. Just another back door rationalization for dogma that contradicts Scripture.

Regarding 2 John 1:7, the context is to oppose heresies developing during the time of the Apostles. In this case, claiming Jesus was a spirit being. John affirms Jesus was not a spirit being but a man, in the flesh.

 

[RLT63]

Yea, right. More projecting.



The trinity is not in the Bible. This, you refuse to understand.

I know the word Trinity is not in the Bible.

 

[Wrangler]

I know the word Trinity is not in the Bible.

Intellectually dishonest. I did not make a semantic statement. The concept of the trinity is not in the Bible and I'm sure you know that's what I mean when I say the trinity is not in the Bible.

In fact, the trinity contradicts Scripture. This is why you and others often avoid questions. See post #3,707. To get around the significance of contradicting Scripture, you throw off the shackles of logic by embracing dualism. Even still, it does not help much. In addition, you must:

1. Disregard explicit Scripture, e.g., only the father is God.
2. Doctrinally invest in back door rationalizations of ambiguous Scripture, e.g., the word was God, so that means a person is also God.
3. Confuse figurative and literal verses, e.g., above.
4. This also requires embracing mysticism, e.g., Let's invent the inherently contradictory idea of a 3-person person and that words are a person separate from the person from whom they come from, and assert Jesus is this person, along with inventing any other ideas to rationalize what contradicts Scripture.

It's such a torture position. Whatever it takes to get people to violate the 1C. Trinitarian logic on display. I wonder who would be motivated to get people to violate the 1C?

 

[RLT63]

Intellectually dishonest. I did not make a semantic statement. The concept of the trinity is not in the Bible and I'm sure you know that's what I mean when I say the trinity is not in the Bible.

In fact, the trinity contradicts Scripture. This is why you and others often avoid questions. See post #3,707. To get around the significance of contradicting Scripture, you throw off the shackles of logic by embracing dualism. Even still, it does not help much. In addition, you must:

1. Disregard explicit Scripture, e.g., only the father is God.
2. Doctrinally invest in back door rationalizations of ambiguous Scripture, e.g., the word was God, so that means a person is also God.
3. Confuse figurative and literal verses, e.g., above.
4. This also requires embracing mysticism, e.g., Let's invent the inherently contradictory idea of a 3-person person and that words are a person separate from the person from whom they come from, and assert Jesus is this person, along with inventing any other ideas to rationalize what contradicts Scripture.

It's such a torture position. Whatever it takes to get people to violate the 1C. Trinitarian logic on display. I wonder who would be motivated to get people to violate the 1C?

This is exactly what you do with John 1. That one chapter disproves your entire argument

 

[Wrangler]

This is exactly what you do with John 1. That one chapter disproves your entire argument

Nonsense. You don't have an argument of your own. So, your pretend my argument works against me. False witness. Still no answers to post #3,707.