Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
Only to those that don't know scripture very well....
The diagram you just posted says "Rapture"
The Rapture is About to Happen, Here's Why--Rapture?
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Only to those that don't know scripture very well....
The diagram you just posted says "Rapture"
Marvelloustime
Well-Known Member
Marvelloustime
Well-Known Member
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Yep I see 3 falsehoods in the thread.
1) ha ha ha...scoff scoff...there is no rapture.
2) the rapture is postrib. ( declared from human minds with no verses)
3) some nut job claiming a rapture date in 2024.
All wrong
All broken down relics.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Both sides believe he comes postrib.
Only the pretrib rapture verses point to and declare a pretrib rapture.
No verses point to a postrib rapture.
I have put out challenges for postribbers to make a scriptural argument.
They have always answered with cliche's.
Trump
Trumpet
After the trib
Day of the Lord
As if they think voiding out our verses is some smoking gun.
If that is the postrib methodology, you guys are GUARANTEED error.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
i know you can read
“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Ok, read closely.
It clearly says Angeles are gathering from heaven. What is missing is Jesus is not in that picture.
It is angel's gathering in heaven which supports the pre-trib rapture
the saints are already in heaven and the angels gather them to mount the white horses after the tribulation period
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Jesus not in that picture???
At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn.
They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Jesus is not gathering.
Jesus not in the picture of the gathering.
Jesus is in the picture AFTER THE GATHERING.
So there is no rapture in those verses you posted.
Zero
Your claim that Jesus is absent or "not in the picture" during the gathering is inconsistent with the text of Matthew 24:30-31. The passage explicitly ties the gathering of the elect to the visible coming of the Son of Man.
Furthermore, your argument against the presence of the rapture in these verses ignores the clear parallels with other rapture-related passages, such as 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, which describe the Lord’s descent, the trumpet call, and the gathering of believers.
J.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
JESUS is the CENTER of the PICTURE = a Direct BULLSEYE
Wouldn't it be wise to strengthen our faith and prepare for either scenario? Debate is good on a forum like this but, I'd be very careful in teaching unbelievers that the pre trib is certain to happen as it could cause them not to seek stronger faith in case it did not happen, it would also make you a false teacher... and to make it through those days, we will need rock solid faith. IOW be ready and suited up with the armor of God.
JM2C
JM2C
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Men will truly , truly i say unto thee , beleive as they desire to beleive . Will cling to whatever tickles the ear .
BUT SHEEP TRULY LOVE THE WORD and WORDS OF GOD
and love NOT THEIR LIVES even unto death . MANY LOVE THEIR LIVES IN THIS WORLD
and thus will embrace a teaching that GIVES THEM THAT and offers unto them NO Talk of tribulations or persecutions .
NO reminders that we are APPOINTED UNTO SUCH . NO reminder that one must ENDURE TO THE END .
just the reminder that all is well , have ya best life now , do as thou wilt , AND NO WORRIES
GOD WILL NEVER EVER allow you to have to suffer FOR HIS NAME SAKE .
THE SHEEP have ONE LOVE and that LOVE IS ABOVE ALL , FOR GOD CHRIST , FOR TRUTH and it loves its neighbor as itself .
IF any man have the love of the world the LOVE OF THE FATHER IS NOT IN THEM .
THERE WAS GOOD REASON WHY JESUS warned HIS OWN about DIRE PERSECUTOINS AND DIRE TRIBULATIONS
and that NO MATTER what cometh against you , HE WHO ENDURES TO THE END shall be saved .
IN THIS WORLD ye shall HAVE TRIBULATION was not a message JUST for the first few
BUT FOR ALL BELEIVERS throught all ages TILL THE END DO COME . AMEN .
Marvelloustime
Well-Known Member
Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
And it causes many to think they can go ahead and live in sin until the rapture
is about to happen because they want to have their cake and eat it too
I once had a friend who thought that he would be okay to live his life of sin if he just waited for the Antichrist to chop his head off! I told him "what if you get hit by a car tomorrow, you will die in your sin". He had such a look of surprise on his face, I hope he has come to the Lord. He was not very sharp minded, he had a TBI years ago in an accident, but it did make him think for sure.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Runningman
Active Member
A literal taking-up into the sky after being resurrected seems to be the case because it happened to Jesus. I wouldn't say it makes complete sense to spiritualize the concept for everyone else. It seems to be the case that early Christians believed they would experience what Jesus did after their resurrection.
When you turn the light on, on the "RAPTURE" here's what you'll see: You will see TWO versions, and only TWO versions. The one the Rapturist tells you to belive, and the one they don't want anyone to know about.
So lets look at the TWO versions shall we? First off, both versions occur at two different periods of time, but only one is truly biblical, the other is not. The one that is not states that Jesus will come secretly, and not considered the second coming, because it is secret and invisibel, therefore you can't add it to the First Coming, and you shouldn't say it's the First and Half coming because that muddles the math for the Second coming. You know, "FUZZY NUMBERS". Perhaps they believe there are three comings, though they won't say that.
The "Rapture" came into the Church about 150 years ago, It was never preached by either the prophets or to the Apostles. After Paul returned from His Journey of perdge I call it. 13 years in all, seperating himself from the influence of his past and eating mostly on the word of God, came back to Jerusalem preaching Jesus and Him cruscified. Never making reference to some revelation about a "Secret Coming", where planes would drop from heaven and cars crashing and going over bridges while a Living church would go up all at once together and be taken off on a 7 year honeymoon. Even though the bible states this: "...and the dead shall rise first...". But remeber...sssshhhhh...it's a secret.
Although I could go on, I don't want to make this longer. So now the BIBLICAL version. So I will use what Jesus spoke about Himself, because no one knows more about Jesus and His comings and goings than Jesus. Read Carefully...very, very carefully.
Imagine speaking to you through the Holy Spirit.
29 “But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. 31 And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
The Biblical Version stays true to 1 Thessalonians 5. We see Jesus, we see He comes down to the clouds, and we see His angels and "A" Trumpet blast and the lifting up of His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other. We see also no one expected it, He comes as a theif to take His Elect and those who did not make themselves ready are crying out for the rocks and mountains to fall down on them for fear of the power they feel. It fulfills Thessalonians to the TEA.
Now you can't have two Version of clouds, trumpet blasts, rising of the elect and Jesus coming as a theif occuring at different points of time - One at pre-tribulation and one "...immediately after the tribulation of those days". CAN'T HAPPEN.
I Choose to believe Jesus, and I choose to believe that Jesus is my blessed Hope, not on an event, which I was once told that if I didn't believe it, I would not be raptured. Imagine me making Jesus my blessed hope and Him passing me up. WHAT?
WHOSE YOUR BLESSED HOPE, after me..................J E S U S, J E S U S, J E S U S!
So lets look at the TWO versions shall we? First off, both versions occur at two different periods of time, but only one is truly biblical, the other is not. The one that is not states that Jesus will come secretly, and not considered the second coming, because it is secret and invisibel, therefore you can't add it to the First Coming, and you shouldn't say it's the First and Half coming because that muddles the math for the Second coming. You know, "FUZZY NUMBERS". Perhaps they believe there are three comings, though they won't say that.
The "Rapture" came into the Church about 150 years ago, It was never preached by either the prophets or to the Apostles. After Paul returned from His Journey of perdge I call it. 13 years in all, seperating himself from the influence of his past and eating mostly on the word of God, came back to Jerusalem preaching Jesus and Him cruscified. Never making reference to some revelation about a "Secret Coming", where planes would drop from heaven and cars crashing and going over bridges while a Living church would go up all at once together and be taken off on a 7 year honeymoon. Even though the bible states this: "...and the dead shall rise first...". But remeber...sssshhhhh...it's a secret.
Although I could go on, I don't want to make this longer. So now the BIBLICAL version. So I will use what Jesus spoke about Himself, because no one knows more about Jesus and His comings and goings than Jesus. Read Carefully...very, very carefully.
Imagine speaking to you through the Holy Spirit.
29 “But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. 31 And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
The Biblical Version stays true to 1 Thessalonians 5. We see Jesus, we see He comes down to the clouds, and we see His angels and "A" Trumpet blast and the lifting up of His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other. We see also no one expected it, He comes as a theif to take His Elect and those who did not make themselves ready are crying out for the rocks and mountains to fall down on them for fear of the power they feel. It fulfills Thessalonians to the TEA.
Now you can't have two Version of clouds, trumpet blasts, rising of the elect and Jesus coming as a theif occuring at different points of time - One at pre-tribulation and one "...immediately after the tribulation of those days". CAN'T HAPPEN.
I Choose to believe Jesus, and I choose to believe that Jesus is my blessed Hope, not on an event, which I was once told that if I didn't believe it, I would not be raptured. Imagine me making Jesus my blessed hope and Him passing me up. WHAT?
WHOSE YOUR BLESSED HOPE, after me..................J E S U S, J E S U S, J E S U S!
Galgal
Member
Early Christians were as fallible as later Christians. Jesus' disciples were deeply mistaken when they thought Jesus was about to become King. Instead of what they expected, Jesus died. After Pentecost, the disciples were again mistaken when they thought Jesus was about to restore the Kingdom of God in Israel. So no matter what the early Christians thought, we need to have today's revelations, not the fossilized human traditions of religions.
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