Absolute truth - Do we know what it is?

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Dan Clarkston

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I don't make things happen, God does. How else can you read scripture except as what it says?

Scripture does not teach that God decided that most people are created for the sole purpose of going to hell.

That's the false teaching of demons that resided in that unrepentant murderer John Calvin who was one of satan's most valued servants... a true worker of iniquity and darkness




You are assuming that non Christians are innocent good people not deserving of he'll.

You are also assuming that God is not capable of being just or merciful.

Can you justify these assumptions from scripture?

Those are YOUR assumption and I said nothing even close to that.

God's Word teaches that Jesus paid for the sins of the entire world... meaning that everyone has the opportunity and pathway to be saved thru Jesus Christ. Those that choose to not come to the Lord and get born again will go to hell and God is not the One deciding this because the Lord gave man free will and God does not violate the gifts and callings that He gave (man was created in God's image... God has free will and so do we)

God never said that all would be saved... but His Word teaches that salvation is for everyone and Jesus tasted of death for ALL... let's go over a few scriptures yet again that prove limited atonement is doctrines of demons and is not of the Lord.

The Father sovereignly decided to make man in His own Image which is why all men have free will. He said in His Word than we are predestined to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ (Romans 8:29), and we are to be followers of God as dear children (Ephesians 5:1)

God's Word says man is without excuse (Romans 1:20), the grace that brings salvation has come upon all men (Titus 2:11-13)

God's Word says it's not God's will that any perish and He wants all to come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9), and He has commanded men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30), and has given every man faith (Romans 12:3)

Jesus said if He be lifted up He would draw all men until Himself (John 12:32), and Jesus has tasted of death for every man (Hebrews 2:9)

In light of all these scriptures, we can say for sure that limited atonement taught by John Calvin is false doctrine and is in opposition to what God says.


Romans 8:29,30
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.


Romans 1:19-21
Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.


Titus 2:11,12
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;


2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Acts 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

John 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
 

Scott Downey

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Scripture does not teach that God decided that most people are created for the sole purpose of going to hell.

That's the false teaching of demons that resided in that unrepentant murderer John Calvin who was one of satan's most valued servants... a true worker of iniquity and darkness






Those are YOUR assumption and I said nothing even close to that.

God's Word teaches that Jesus paid for the sins of the entire world... meaning that everyone has the opportunity and pathway to be saved thru Jesus Christ. Those that choose to not come to the Lord and get born again will go to hell and God is not the One deciding this because the Lord gave man free will and God does not violate the gifts and callings that He gave (man was created in God's image... God has free will and so do we)

God never said that all would be saved... but His Word teaches that salvation is for everyone and Jesus tasted of death for ALL... let's go over a few scriptures yet again that prove limited atonement is doctrines of demons and is not of the Lord.

The Father sovereignly decided to make man in His own Image which is why all men have free will. He said in His Word than we are predestined to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ (Romans 8:29), and we are to be followers of God as dear children (Ephesians 5:1)

God's Word says man is without excuse (Romans 1:20), the grace that brings salvation has come upon all men (Titus 2:11-13)

God's Word says it's not God's will that any perish and He wants all to come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9), and He has commanded men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30), and has given every man faith (Romans 12:3)

Jesus said if He be lifted up He would draw all men until Himself (John 12:32), and Jesus has tasted of death for every man (Hebrews 2:9)

In light of all these scriptures, we can say for sure that limited atonement taught by John Calvin is false doctrine and is in opposition to what God says.


Romans 8:29,30
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.


Romans 1:19-21
Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.


Titus 2:11,12
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;


2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Acts 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

John 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Every man among you, means the church, the saved, not every single unsaved person. What this says is God has given faith as His gift to those He saves, which is why they believed. That's the context, not the whole world, God does not give to the unsaved.
 

Dan Clarkston

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That's the context, not the whole world, God does not give to the unsaved.

Sadly the calvinists are teaching many false doctrines such as this claiming Jesus did not go to the Cross for the whole world, claiming God did not love the whole world and sent Jesus so WHOSOEVER that believes on Him would be saved.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Did God have fore knowledge of all people that would be born on Club Earth??? Sure He did, which is why Romans 8:30 says all people are predestined by God to be in the image of Jesus Christ (to live in submission to God)

Romans 8:29,30
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

God very clearly tells us it is His will that not any should perish

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Right now God is commanding ALL men everywhere to repent!

Acts 17:30

And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Jesus said He is drawing ALL men unto Himself...

John 12:32

And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

At Calvary, Jesus tasted of death for ALL men!

Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

It's hard to explain away what God's Word clearly has to say... but leave to the calvinist (and those influenced by their heresy) to continue scripture twisting to lead people astray

What's pretty funny is calvinists don't know if they are elect or not... they just assuming cause based on their false doctrine they may not be one of the elect and just think they are (Surgeon taught this garbage)

Calvinist (and those influenced by their heresy) never let what God's Word says to get in the way of what they believe
beam_in_eye2.gif
 

Dan Clarkston

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So the calvinist heresy says it's not possible for most people to get saved... and only they are saved.

Which of course is why calvinism is a demonic cult.
 

Windmill Charge

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Those are YOUR assumption and I said nothing even close to that.
Your post 354 "
So, in essence you are making the claim that all the folks that end up in hell... it was God's will for them to go there?

In other words, it's God's fault that they did not get saved? clueless-scratching.gif"

" Good " people do not end in hell.
Your post shows you assumption you are making about those who go to hell.
 

Hobie

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It is. In this case, our ability to know "Truth" is limited by the accuracy of our measurement devices, and the fact that the means used can only prove that space is NOT Euclidean; it can't prove that it IS Euclidean.

The one thing I find sad about that story is that Father Saccheri felt it necessary to turn his back on Truth in order to defend knowing "Absolute Truth" absolutely.
No, it's limited by our allowing the Holy Spirit to guide us...
 

Dan Clarkston

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Your post 354 "
So, in essence you are making the claim that all the folks that end up in hell... it was God's will for them to go there?

In other words, it's God's fault that they did not get saved? clueless-scratching.gif"

" Good " people do not end in hell.
Your post shows you assumption you are making about those who go to hell.

He is speaking calvinist nonsense... claiming God is preventing most people from getting saved because the calvinists claim God does not actually want most people to get saved.... they think God only wants calvinists to be saved showing that calvinism is in fact a cult.

The calvinists are confused thinking God and satan... are the same guy! crazy.gif
 

Windmill Charge

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He is speaking calvinist nonsense... claiming God is preventing most people from getting saved because the calvinists claim God does not actually want most people to get saved.... they think God only wants calvinists to be saved showing that calvinism is in fact a cult.

The calvinists are confused thinking God and satan... are the same guy! View attachment 56312
I agree that you, the person I quoted , is talking nonsense.
 

St. SteVen

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New topic:


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Hobie

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Galatians 5:18 NIV
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

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The law says not to commit adultery, but when you are truly led by the Spirit you surpass it, and don't even look at a woman in lust. The mind(forehead) and your actions(hand) are under Christ, united with Him, Christ in you and you in Christ. But if you follow the deceiver in your actions as well as beliefs and receive his mark in the hand as well as the forehead, then you have a problem..
 

St. SteVen

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St. SteVen said:
Galatians 5:18 NIV
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
The law says not to commit adultery, but when you are truly led by the Spirit you surpass it, and don't even look at a woman in lust. The mind(forehead) and your actions(hand) are under Christ, united with Him, Christ in you and you in Christ. But if you follow the deceiver in your actions as well as beliefs and receive his mark in the hand as well as the forehead, then you have a problem..
Sounds like a bunch of double-talk to me. Are you under the law or not?
Does surpassing the law negate it, or support it?
Who is the REAL deceiver here?

If the mind and actions are under Christ, they are NOT under the law.

Galatians 3:23-25 NIV
Before the coming of this faith,[a] we were held in custody under the law,
locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed.
24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith.
25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

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St. SteVen

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The law says not to commit adultery
Adultery was against God's law of human conscience before the law was given to the Israelites alone through Moses.
Same with murder. Why was it wrong for Cain to murder his brother? The law had not yet been given.

But if you follow the deceiver in your actions as well as beliefs and receive his mark in the hand as well as the forehead, then you have a problem..
So, you have manufactured a Mark of the Beast as NOT following the law we are not under?

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Hobie

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St. SteVen said:
Galatians 5:18 NIV
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

Sounds like a bunch of double-talk to me. Are you under the law or not?
Does surpassing the law negate it, or support it?
Who is the REAL deceiver here?

If the mind and actions are under Christ, they are NOT under the law.

Galatians 3:23-25 NIV
Before the coming of this faith,[a] we were held in custody under the law,
locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed.
24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith.
25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

[
But it is His Law that is His will so is not grievous to us, and we follow it out of love for Him.
 
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St. SteVen

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But it is His Law that is His will so is not grievous to us, and we follow it out of love for Him.
What "Law" are you talking about?
- The Law, the Books of the Law
- The law, that God gave to the Israelites alone through Moses
- God's law, of human conscience given to all of humankind
- Christ's law, given in the new covenant


1 Corinthians 9:20-22 NIV
To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews.
To those under the law I became like one under the law
(though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law.
21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law
(though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law),
so as to win those not having the law.
22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak.
I have become all things to all people so that
by all possible means I might save some.

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