Is Ezekiel Chapter 39 In The Gog/Magog Battle Future And Unfulfilled?

[Spiritual Israelite]

I quote from the word of God what you say the word of God does not teach what it says.



Here it is in black and white.
God keeps his promise he made to Abraham.
God keeps all his promises .


Revelation 20
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.​

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Your comprehension is terrible.The word of God is keeping to the same subject here.The subject is the saints who are resurected and sit on thrones from verse 4-9.Same resurected saints in Ezekiel 37 who come out of their graves.And Gog ,who God destroys in Ezekiel 38 is the same Gog in revelation 20.​

All you do is make assumptions about the text. You have nothing concrete to go by. It absolutely does NOT say that those who are in "the camp of the saints" had previously been resurrected. Those who have part in the first resurrection reign with Christ in heaven, not on earth. The ones on earth in Revelation 20:9 are living saints who haven't died yet and they will not die and will instead be changed immediately when Christ returns and sends fire down on all of His enemies.

You continue to fail to ensure that your interpretations of Ezekiel 38 and Revelation 20 lines up with the rest of scripture. Is the following passage in your Bible or not?

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

This indicates the the resurrection of the dead in Christ is followed by being caught up to meet the Lord in the air and then being with the Lord forever? No mention of being resurrected and then being on the earth and being attacked. Not even close. So, Revelation 20:9 can't possibly be talking about resurrected saints being attacked. No, it's talking about those who are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord being opposed throughout the world ("the four quarters of the earth" - Rev 20:8) and then Jesus takes vengeance in flaming fire on them when He comes (2 Thess 1:7-10).

 

[tailgator]

All you do is make assumptions about the text. You have nothing concrete to go by. It absolutely does NOT say that those who are in "the camp of the saints" had previously been resurrected. Those who have part in the first resurrection reign with Christ in heaven, not on earth. The ones on earth in Revelation 20:9 are living saints who haven't died yet and they will not die and will instead be changed immediately when Christ returns and sends fire down on all of His enemies.

You continue to fail to ensure that your interpretations of Ezekiel 38 and Revelation 20 lines up with the rest of scripture. Is the following passage in your Bible or not?

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

This indicates the the resurrection of the dead in Christ is followed by being caught up to meet the Lord in the air and then being with the Lord forever? No mention of being resurrected and then being on the earth and being attacked. Not even close. So, Revelation 20:9 can't possibly be talking about resurrected saints being attacked. No, it's talking about those who are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord being opposed throughout the world ("the four quarters of the earth" - Rev 20:8) and then Jesus takes vengeance in flaming fire on them when He comes (2 Thess 1:7-10).

You must really hate revelation 20 because it destroys all your false doctrines.This is not an assumption.It is the word of God which you said makes no sense to you

Revelation 20​

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.​

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.​

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.​

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,​

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.​

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them​

 

[Douggg]

Is there something wrong with your reading comprehension?

The saints of Israel are resurected out of their graves here in Ezekiel 37 and they live in the land of Israel when Gog comes against them in Ezekiel 38.

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Ezekiel 37​

12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.​

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13 And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,​

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14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord.​

God brings them up out of their graves and you say they are not resurected.God says he puts his spirit in them and you say they are not saints.​

Revelation 37 the valley of dry bones vision was a visual dramatization involving Ezekiel's participation (verses 7,10, 11) to make the prophetic point about how God was going to reunite the northern and southern kingdoms (of Israel) back into one kingdom, verse 15-28. The vision, as far as the reuniting goes, was fulfilled on May15, 1948 when Israel became one united nation again.

Still ahead is "David my servant" in Ezekiel 37:24 to be their king forever. "David my servant" in Ezekiel 37 is generally considered to be a code name for the messiah. The messiah of course is Jesus.

Does Ezekiel 37 refer to an actual resurrection of individuals ?

I don't think that is what is being meant because in verse 11, it says what the bones represent.... the whole house of Israel, i.e. the nation, whose collective mindset of having no hope of living in the land of Israel ever again had overtaken them.

11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.

12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.

Has Israel been resurrected to be a nation in the land of Israel again ? Yes.

 

[Truth7t7]

Which is greater, the worldly foreshadowing, or what it points to? (Rhetorical)

Scott everything in the Bible to you is symbolic, I can't remember a post where you actually believed the scripture was literal

 

[ScottA]

Scott everything in the Bible to you is symbolic, I can't remember a post where you actually believed the scripture was literal

Oh, but surely I have quoted this "literal" one numerous times:

So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them (Genesis 1:27).​

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Oh, and there is also this one:

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Give ear, O my people, to my law; Incline your ears to the words of my mouth. I will open my mouth in a parable (Psalms 78:1-2). "A" parable--singular. The words of His mouth, all one parable.​

 

[ewq1938]

Eze 39:9 And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:
Eze 39:10 So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down any out of the forests; for they shall burn the weapons with fire: and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord GOD.

Burning weapons for 7 years without the use of additional wood doesn't sound like a future event. It's either a historical event or it's scrapped prophecy, replaced by new prophecy of the new covenant.

 

[tailgator]

Revelation 37 the valley of dry bones vision was a visual dramatization involving Ezekiel's participation (verses 7,10, 11) to make the prophetic point about how God was going to reunite the northern and southern kingdoms (of Israel) back into one kingdom, verse 15-28. The vision, as far as the reuniting goes, was fulfilled on May15, 1948 when Israel became one united nation again.

Still ahead is "David my servant" in Ezekiel 37:24 to be their king forever. "David my servant" in Ezekiel 37 is generally considered to be a code name for the messiah. The messiah of course is Jesus.

Does Ezekiel 37 refer to an actual resurrection of individuals ?

I don't think that is what is being meant because in verse 11, it says what the bones represent.... the whole house of Israel, i.e. the nation, whose collective mindset of having no hope of living in the land of Israel ever again had overtaken them.

11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.

12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.

Has Israel been resurrected to be a nation in the land of Israel again ? Yes.

The only thing fulfilled in 1948 was the beast that received a deadly wound in 70 AD was healed in 1948 and the people who rejects Christ followed after that beast.



As for the resurrection of Israel in Ezekiel 37
This resurrection takes place at the coming of Jesus.At that time ,Israel is raised from the dead and brought up out of their graves and God puts his spirit in them and they live.

Ezekiel 37
12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.

13 And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,

14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord.



Has the whole house of Israel come up out of their graves?No

Has God put his spirit in the whole house of Israel?
No

Is Messiah reigning over the whole house of Israel?
No



Only if you think Benjamin netanyahu is Messiah.
Do you believe Benjamin netanyahu is Messiah Doug?Are you worshiping netanyahu Doug?


Ezekiel 37
23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.

24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.

25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.




There are a lot of people who can't tell the difference between the Messiah and his kingdom from Benjamin netanyahu and his kingdom.

One is the true king of Israel chosen by God and one chosen by them who reject the true king of Israel.

 

[Davidpt]

False

God is not hiding his face from the resurected saints in Ezekiel 37,38,39.
He brings them up out of their graves as Ezekiel 37 says and he puts his spirit in them as the word of God says They are gathered into the land of Israel as the word of God says and there they live .

After God has done all this in Ezekiel 37 ,Gog comes against the resurected saints who have the spirit of God in them and fire and brimstone rains down on Gog and all the heathen who came against the resurected saints .


Why would you believe it is irrational for someone to believe the resurected saints who live in the land of Israel in Ezekiel 37-39 are the resurected saints who live in Israel in revelation 20?

Let's look at some of the text again.

Ezekiel 39:23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.

Ezekiel 39:24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.

Ezekiel 39:29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.


The following clearly tells us when God is no longer hiding His face from them.

Ezekiel 39:17 And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood.
18 Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan.
19 And ye shall eat fat till ye be full, and drink blood till ye be drunken, of my sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you.
20 Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war, saith the Lord GOD.
21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.
22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.
23 ¶And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.
24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.


Obviously, what verses 17-20 are pertaining to is the same judgment mentioned in verse 21. That judgment being upon Gog and his multitude.

Then look what verse 22 says next---So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.

On a side note. Anyone that might think Ezekiel 38-39 has already been fulfilled, as in was fulfilled before Christ came, it really makes sense of this verse 22 then, doesn't it? That before Christ was born the house of Israel shall already know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward , then this same house of Israel, a good majority of them anyway, rejects Christ and don't even believe He is the promised Messiah. Doesn't anyone even use common sense anymore? There is no way verse 22 can be meaning before Christ was born.

Then verse 23-24 tells us---And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword. According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.

And finally verse 29 tells us that after God executes His judgment on Gog and his multitude---Neither will I hide my face any more from them : for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel. We have to keep in mind, when God executes his judgment on Gog and his multitude, the house of Israel meant in both chapters are already back in their own land at the time. And even though they are back in their own land God is still hiding His face from them and doesn't quit hiding His face from them until He executes His judgment on Gog and his multitude. Once again, clearly, per Revelation 20:7-9, God is not hiding His face from anyone. Not that you are saying He is, yet that is beside the point. Therefore, these accounts are not referring to the same events and that you are conflating events that happen in the end of this age with events that happen a thousand years after the end of this age.

Clearly, as of chapter 38 as well, God is still hiding His face from them and doesn't stop hiding his face from them until He executes His judgment on Gog and his multitude first.


Let me ask you this then? If you insist Ezekiel 38-39 are the same events as Revelation 20:7-9 and that you insist Revelation 20:7-9 is meaning 1000 years after Christ returns, what do you do with the following below since the great white throne judgment is what follows after Revelation 20:7-9?

Ezekiel 39:8 Behold, it is come, and it is done, saith the Lord GOD; this is the day whereof I have spoken.
9 And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:

Ezekiel 39:12 And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land.


Now you have to explain this 7 years and this 7 months and how it fits after Revelation 20:7-10 but prior to Revelation 20:11-15.

 

[tailgator]

Let's look at some of the text again.

Ezekiel 39:23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.

Ezekiel 39:24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.

Ezekiel 39:29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.


The following clearly tells us when God is no longer hiding His face from them.

Ezekiel 39:17 And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood.
18 Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan.
19 And ye shall eat fat till ye be full, and drink blood till ye be drunken, of my sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you.
20 Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war, saith the Lord GOD.
21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.
22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.
23 ¶And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.
24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.


Obviously, what verses 17-20 are pertaining to is the same judgment mentioned in verse 21. That judgment being upon Gog and his multitude.

Then look what verse 22 says next---So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.

On a side note. Anyone that might think Ezekiel 38-39 has already been fulfilled, as in was fulfilled before Christ came, it really makes sense of this verse 22 then, doesn't it? That before Christ was born the house of Israel shall already know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward, then this same house of Israel, a good majority of them anyway, rejects Christ and don't even believe He is the promised Messiah. Doesn't anyone even use common sense anymore? There is no way verse 22 can be meaning before Christ was born.

Then verse 23-24 tells us---And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword. According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.

And finally verse 29 tells us that after God executes His judgment on Gog and his multitude---Neither will I hide my face any more from them : for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel. We have to keep in mind, when God executes his judgment on Gog and his multitude, the house of Israel meant in both chapters are already back in their own land at the time. And even though they are back in their own land God is still hiding His face from them and doesn't quit hiding His face from them until He executes His judgment on Gog and his multitude. Once again, clearly, per Revelation 20:7-9, God is not hiding His face from anyone. Not that you are saying He is, yet that is beside the point. Therefore, these accounts are not referring to the same events and that you are conflating events that happen in the end of this age with events that happen a thousand years after the end of this age.

Clearly, as of chapter 38 as well, God is still hiding His face from them and doesn't stop hiding his face from them until He executes His judgment on Gog and his multitude first.


Let me ask you this then? If you insist Ezekiel 38-39 are the same events as Revelation 20:7-9 and that you insist Revelation 20:7-9 is meaning 1000 years after Christ returns, what do you do with the following below since the great white throne judgment is what follows after Revelation 20:7-9?

Ezekiel 39:8 Behold, it is come, and it is done, saith the Lord GOD; this is the day whereof I have spoken.
9 And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:

Ezekiel 39:12 And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land.


Now you have to explain this 7 years and this 7 months and how it fits after Revelation 20:7-10 but prior to Revelation 20:11-15.

God hid his face from Israel for thousands of years.
He is not hiding his face from them when he brings them up out of their graves,puts his spirit in them ,and gathers them back into the land promised to Abrahams seed(Christ) in Ezekiel 37.


First things first,
Do you also deny that God will do these things as some on this board do?

Do you deny God will bring Israel up out of their graves,put his holy spirit on the whole house of Israel,and bring Israel into their own land as he said he will?

Ezekiel 37
12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.

13 And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,

14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord.




If you deny God will do any of these things ,then there is no need to proceed.You deny Israel will be resurected

 

[Douggg]

The only thing fulfilled in 1948 was the beast that received a deadly wound in 70 AD was healed in 1948 and the people who rejects Christ followed after that beast.

No, Israel is not the beast.

Israel has to have been restored as a nation for the parable of the fig tree to be fulfilled. The parable of the fig tree generation began in 1967 when the Jews regained control of Jerusalem.

As for the resurrection of Israel in Ezekiel 37
This resurrection takes place at the coming of Jesus.At that time ,Israel is raised from the dead and brought up out of their graves and God puts his spirit in them and they live.

Matthew 24:31 is not the rapture/resurrection event. It is the fulfillment of Deuteronomy 30:1-6 of bringing all the Jews scattered into the nations to the land of Israel.

Deuteronomy 30:

1 And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee,

2 And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul;

3 That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee.

4 If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, [compare with the text of Matthew 24:31] from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:

5 And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.

6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

The Jews, those of which are still in the nations when Jesus returns, when they are brought to land of Israel will die of old age during the 1000 years. At the end of the thousand year, they will be resurrected for the Great White Throne Judgement and their names being found in the book of life, will receive their eternal everlasting bodies to continue living forever throughout eternity.

Has the whole house of Israel come up out of their graves?No

The nation as a whole has. One unified nation, no longer a kingdom of the north and a kingdom of the south.

Has God put his spirit in the whole house of Israel?
No

Not yet, I agree.

Is Messiah reigning over the whole house of Israel?
No

Not yet, I agree.

Only if you think Benjamin netanyahu is Messiah.
Do you believe Benjamin netanyahu is Messiah Doug?Are you worshiping netanyahu Doug?

No-one, including the Jews, are saying nor believing that Benjamin Netanyahu is the messiah.

Neither is Benjamin Netanyahu the Antichrist. The Antichrist will be the little horn person associated with the EU.

 

[Davidpt]

Don't try to speak for me. Nothing you're saying about what I'm supposedly saying is true. I believe that Ezekiel 37 is referring to what happened here long ago and not to a future resurrection of dead saints.

Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Let's see if you might be correct. But it will be involving details that have to be taken into account first. Details are something that Amils like to tend to ignore a lot of the time. And don't try and deny it either. You know you and other Amils ignore details a lot of the time otherwise you couldn't remotely be coming to some of the conclusions that you all do at times.


Ezekiel 37:23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.


Let's start with these details first. Does any of that sound like that might fit anyone meant in Matthew 27:52?

These that came bodily out of the graves, that after they came out they then started doing this--shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.

What about these next details?

Ezekiel 37:24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.
26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.



And after they came out of their graves, they then, at that time, began dwelling in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever

Keeping in mind, obviously Matthew 27:52-53 was a literal event. Which means if you then take Ezekiel 37 to be involving the same things Matthew 27:52-53 is involving, you then have to interpret Ezekiel 37 in the same manner, as in literal. Which then makes nonsense of the texts above I brought up.

Who cares about details, right? Apparently many Amils must not since they have to make pretty much every prophet in the OT out to be liars because they have to change, or simply ignore, many things these prophets said and meant.

Why don't you and other Amils simply face it, Amil theology doesn't cut it. One has to explain too many things away or simply ignore too many things, or change too many things to mean something they are not even meaning, as if God Himself never said any of those things through any of His prophets. If you still think Ezekiel 37 is possibly involving what Matthew 27:52-52 is involving, why even bother trying to understand the Bible at all since you are clearly wasting your time and everyone else's time with these wild goose chases here?


I'm not saying I agree with @tailgator either, in regards to Ezekiel 37. But I certainly don't agree with you for certain if you seriously think Matthew 27:52-52 can possibly explain Ezekiel 37. For the life of me I can't figure out why, you being as intelligent as you are, because clearly you are very intelligent, you then thinking details are unimportant, that they just don't matter. If you insist that that is false, that you do think details are important, that details do matter, why then are you coming to some of the absurd conclusions you do at times, mainly involving OT prophecies?

 

[Davidpt]

God hid his face from Israel for thousands of years.
He is not hiding his face from them when he brings them up out of their graves,puts his spirit in them ,and gathers them back into the land promised to Abrahams seed(Christ) in Ezekiel 37.

At that point He no longer would be hiding His face. Therefore, Ezekiel 37 must be meaning after God executes His judgment on Gog and his multitude, not before he does. If everything pertaining to Ezekiel 37 is already true before God executes His judgment on Gog and his multitude, it tends to make nonsense out of the following, for one.

Ezekiel 39:21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.
22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.

I'm pretty certain, as of Ezekiel 37, they would already know He is the Lord their God. While this passage indicates they will not know that until after God executes His judgment on Gog and his multitude first.

Do you deny, like @Douggg does, that Ezekiel 39:17-21 is pertaining to the judgment involving Gog and his multitude?

@Douggg tends to think, if I recall correctly, and he can correct me if I get some of this wrong, Ezekiel 39:17-21 is not pertaining to anything that ch 38 is nor chapter 39, verses 1-19, are, but is pertaining to something entirely different and that these events are separated by at least 7 years. IOW, ch 38 and chapter 39, verses 1-19, occur first, then 7 years or so later, Ezekiel 39:17-21 occurs. Thus two battles separated by at least 7 years, rather than just one battle, according to his thinking.

 

[NayborBear]

Ezekiel 37
12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.

The "I will open your graves" is referring to "Spiritually dead." Not to those who are looking at the bottom side of a lawnmower!
There's a whole lot of "prophesy" written that the "truer" meaning can only be spiritually discerned! Due to the fact that over the course of the centuries and copy's of copy's and the way/s that human culture has/causes words and terms used in describing "events" seems to have this "innate ability" (for lack of a better explanation) of Apostisetic drifting from what was said and meant originally!
So without an ability to spiritually discern?
One's/Ones' "tradition" of interpretation/s of prophesy is always going to "miss the mark!"
Not that this missing of the mark is "sin" per se! But is certainly a falling short!
Solution?
Go right to the "source" and ask the "Horse"
May not give you the answer that you had "endorsed"
Yet? He's always on this steady course
Talk to Mr. God!


Philippians 3:13-15 (KJV)
13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,

14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

 

[tailgator]

No, Israel is not the beast.

Israel has to have been restored as a nation for the parable of the fig tree to be fulfilled. The parable of the fig tree generation began in 1967 when the Jews regained control of Jerusalem.


Matthew 24:31 is not the rapture/resurrection event. It is the fulfillment of Deuteronomy 30:1-6 of bringing all the Jews scattered into the nations to the land of Israel.

Deuteronomy 30:

1 And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee,

2 And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul;

3 That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee.

4 If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, [compare with the text of Matthew 24:31] from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:

5 And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.

6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

The Jews, those of which are still in the nations when Jesus returns, when they are brought to land of Israel will die of old age during the 1000 years. At the end of the thousand year, they will be resurrected for the Great White Throne Judgement and their names being found in the book of life, will receive their eternal everlasting bodies to continue living forever throughout eternity.


The nation as a whole has. One unified nation, no longer a kingdom of the north and a kingdom of the south.



Not yet, I agree.


Not yet, I agree.



No-one, including the Jews, are saying nor believing that Benjamin Netanyahu is the messiah.

Neither is Benjamin Netanyahu the Antichrist. The Antichrist will be the little horn person associated with the EU.



View attachment 56712

False
1967 is when the beat subdued three kings.

 

[Douggg]

@Douggg tends to think, if I recall correctly, and he can correct me if I get some of this wrong, Ezekiel 39:17-21 is not pertaining to anything that ch 38 is nor chapter 39, verses 1-19, are, but is pertaining to something entirely different and that these events are separated by at least 7 years. IOW, ch 38 and chapter 39, verses 1-19, occur first, then 7 years or so later, Ezekiel 39:17-21 occurs. Thus two battles separated by at least 7 years, rather than just one battle, according to his thinking.

Yes, you have stated my position correctly. Thanks.

The Gog/Magog event > then 7 years > then Armageddon > Jesus having returned. The left half of the chart below. It's an easy timeline chart to read.

The Gog/Magog event should be happening soon.

 

[tailgator]

At that point He no longer would be hiding His face. Therefore, Ezekiel 37 must be meaning after God executes His judgment on Gog and his multitude, not before he does. If everything pertaining to Ezekiel 37 is already true before God executes His judgment on Gog and his multitude, it tends to make nonsense out of the following, for one.

Ezekiel 39:21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.
22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.

I'm pretty certain, as of Ezekiel 37, they would already know He is the Lord their God. While this passage indicates they will not know that until after God executes His judgment on Gog and his multitude first.

Do you deny, like @Douggg does, that Ezekiel 39:17-21 is pertaining to the judgment involving Gog and his multitude?

@Douggg tends to think, if I recall correctly, and he can correct me if I get some of this wrong, Ezekiel 39:17-21 is not pertaining to anything that ch 38 is nor chapter 39, verses 1-19, are, but is pertaining to something entirely different and that these events are separated by at least 7 years. IOW, ch 38 and chapter 39, verses 1-19, occur first, then 7 years or so later, Ezekiel 39:17-21 occurs. Thus two battles separated by at least 7 years, rather than just one battle, according to his thinking.

Ezekiel 39:17-21 is about Gog being destroyed in the land of Israel.

Israel is gathered into the land of Israel after they are raised out of their graves in Ezekiel 37 as God says and I have already quoted several times.

The fact that Israel is already in the land of Israel before Gog invades the land of Israel is proof they are raised from their graves and gathered into the land of Israel before Gog invades the land of Israel.

Ezekiel 38:8​

After many days you will be called to arms. In future years you will invade a land that has recovered from war, whose people were gathered from many nations to the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate. They had been brought out from the nations, and now all of them live in safety.​

See?
Israel has already been raised from their graves,have already been given the spirit of God and dwell in the land of Israel BEFORE Gog and the nations invade.
In fact,Israel will live safely (meaning no harm can befall them,)Without any man made defences of any kind.No walls,fences or bars.

As for Ezekiel 39,It does not say God is hiding his face from Israel after he gathers them into the land of Israel .God says he does not hide his face from them after he gathers them.And as the verse above shows,God gathered Israel before Gog comes against them.


Ezekiel 39
27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;

28 Then shall they know that I am the Lord their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.

29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord God.


Like I said.
God gathers the whole house of Israel (prophets ,saints and all)after he opens their graves,brings them up out of their graves,puts his holy spirit in them and then gathers them into the land of Israel .
Ezekiel 39:28-29 is only confirming Ezekiel 37.


Ezekiel 37
12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.

13 And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,

14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord.

 

[tailgator]

Yes, you have stated my position correctly. Thanks.

The Gog/Magog event > then 7 years > then Armageddon > Jesus having returned. The left half of the chart below. It's an easy timeline chart to read.

The Gog/Magog event should be happening soon.



View attachment 56741

The beast in the land of Israel today is destroyed in the war of armegeddon 1000 years before Gog and the nations outside the promised land comes against the resurected saints kingdom.
The land will have already recovered from the war of armegeddon before Gog even thinks about coming against the resurrected saints of Israel.

Ezekiel 38:8​

After many days you will be called to arms. In future years you will invade a land that has recovered from war, whose people were gathered from many nations to the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate. They had been brought out from the nations, and now all of them live in safety.​

 

[Davidpt]

Ezekiel 38:8​

After many days you will be called to arms. In future years you will invade a land that has recovered from war, whose people were gathered from many nations to the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate. They had been brought out from the nations, and now all of them live in safety.​

Why can't any of that describe the past 2000 years beginning with what happened in 70 AD? Then close to the mid 20th century they have been brought out of the nations where they were dwelling, to then return to their homeland? What you probably take issue with, would be my guess, might be this---and now all of them live in safety---that that doesn't fit the ones currently occupying that region? I guess it all depends on how you might look at it. Maybe to them, their military power might make them feel safe and secure?

In 70 AD was there not a war at that time? If we make this far into the future, meaning a thousand years after Christ returns, what war would it be involving that causes the land to become desolate to begin with, not for a short period of time, but a for a long period of time? After all, the text says this---which had long been desolate. A few days, a few months, a few years, hardly describes---had long been desolate, IMO. 70 AD through the early 20th century could fit it, though.

 

[tailgator]

Why can't any of that describe the past 2000 years beginning with what happened in 70 AD? Then close to the mid 20th century they have been brought out of the nations where they were dwelling, to then return to their homeland? What you probably take issue with, would be my guess, might be this---and now all of them live in safety---that that doesn't fit the ones currently occupying that region? I guess it all depends on how you might look at it. Maybe to them, their military power might make them feel safe and secure?

In 70 AD was there not a war at that time? If we make this far into the future, meaning a thousand years after Christ returns, what war would it be involving that causes the land to become desolate to begin with, not for a short period of time, but a for a long period of time? After all, the text says this---which had long been desolate. A few days, a few months, a few years, hardly describes---had long been desolate, IMO. 70 AD through the early 20th century could fit it, though.

God has not raised Israel out of their graves and brought them back yet.

Just because a Jew buys an airplane ticket and moves from.one location to another does not mean God has opened Israel's graves and put his holy Spirit into them and brought them into their own land.

The people who moved into the promised land followed the beast after it's deadly wound was healed.God did not make them follow the beast.They chose to follow the beast



As for Ezekiel 38:8 which I quoted.The land has long been desolate.It will also be made desolate with the abomination that causeth desolation before it is given to the resurected saints at Christs coming when he gathers Israel into the land promised to resurected Israel.

But the land will recover as Ezekiel 38:8 says before Gog comes against Israel.

 

[tailgator]

Why can't any of that describe the past 2000 years beginning with what happened in 70 AD? Then close to the mid 20th century they have been brought out of the nations where they were dwelling, to then return to their homeland? What you probably take issue with, would be my guess, might be this---and now all of them live in safety---that that doesn't fit the ones currently occupying that region? I guess it all depends on how you might look at it. Maybe to them, their military power might make them feel safe and secure?

In 70 AD was there not a war at that time? If we make this far into the future, meaning a thousand years after Christ returns, what war would it be involving that causes the land to become desolate to begin with, not for a short period of time, but a for a long period of time? After all, the text says this---which had long been desolate. A few days, a few months, a few years, hardly describes---had long been desolate, IMO. 70 AD through the early 20th century could fit it, though.

This is Israel coming with the Lord to Jerusalem.
They are gathered out of the nations at that time and come to Jerusalem with the Lord.

Zech 14
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.


The same time the abomination that makes desolate is placed in Jerusalem and the occupants of Judea flee ,the saints arrive in Jerusalem with the Lord.They are there for 1000 years before Gog comes against them .