The broad spectrum of Christianity VERSUS the narrow-minded view

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St. SteVen

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Did Jesus die only to save "Christians"? (whatever that means) ???
I would say, No.
The Atonement was a complete work. It paid the death penalty for the sin of all humankind. ("not only for ours")

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

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St. SteVen

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Were the vast majority predestined for destruction? (the broad way)
I would say, No.

Certainly a loving God is capable of a better plan for humankind than that. (pointless)
An absolute triumph of grace and mercy makes much more sense. But how?
Certainly not through the limited view of one (or a handful) of Christian denominations.



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St. SteVen

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Embracing Doctrinal Diversity - Unity in diversity

In the same way we have learned to understand and respect cultural diversity, we should learn to understand and respect doctrinal diversity. Can Catholics and Protestants respect one another despite our doctrinal differences? (yes) What about Baptists and Pentecostals? (yes) You name it. How...

The tyranny of doctrinal unity - "Join or die."

A follow-up to the two previous topics: https://www.christianityboard.com/threads/would-you-surrender-your-own-beliefs-in-the-cause-of-doctrinal-unity.56191/ https://www.christianityboard.com/threads/unity-of-the-faith-at-what-cost.56095/ - Do you have the right to allow the Holy Spirit to...

Would you surrender your own beliefs in the cause of doctrinal unity?

This is a follow-up to the previous topic: Unity of the faith - at what cost? Link below. Probably the biggest roadblock to Christian doctrinal unity is holding on to the freedom we have to determine our own beliefs. Would you surrender your own beliefs in the cause of Christian doctrinal...
 

Bob

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Won't those in Christ be spared judgment? Isn't judgment reserved for the unsaved?
So, you ask a question, for which you already have an answer, in order to tell me why my (standard) answer is wrong.

Is this how you treat Christians? (And now I am assured there is no point answering any of your posts.)

Pax vobiscum.
 
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Bob

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Good question.
As I added parenthetically in the OP "(whatever that means)"


This is the problem Bob.
When asked about salvation, we give the knee-jerk response that we were raised on.

How would a Catholic answer the question? Or a liturgical Lutheran? Orthodox?

Is our narrow view of salvation all there is? How did all these fine folks establish a relationship with God?
I doubt that they went forward at a tent meeting to kneel in the sawdust.

What is the one-size-fits-all answer? Even beyond Christianity.

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Not sure where to begin. The answer I gave is (I assumed) a standard understanding of salvation (see, e.g., any NT sermons by Pastor Alister Begg). I was drawn into it by what I assumed was an innocent question from NTR, which turned out to be a rhetorical trap.

Perhaps you or some other members of this forum could list all the various definitions/understandings of salvation. I would be edified.

I am done with this thread.

Peace.
 
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NotTheRock

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So, you ask a question, for which you already have an answer, in order to tell me why my (standard) answer is wrong.
Not exactly my brother. My aim was only to lead you away from the false doctrine of "eternal separation".
 

RLT63

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Saved from what?
The answer: “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved.” Acts 16:31.

“Neither is there salvation in any other; for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.” Acts 4:12.

“By grace are ye saved, through faith; and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God. Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus.” Ephesians 2:9, 10.
 

NotTheRock

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The answer: “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved.” Acts 16:31.

“Neither is there salvation in any other; for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.” Acts 4:12.

“By grace are ye saved, through faith; and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God. Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus.” Ephesians 2:9, 10.

But those verses don't explain from WHAT it is we are saved.
 

David in NJ

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Having been raised Protestant Evangelical Christian, there was always this perspective
that we had it right and those outside our mindset had it wrong.

As an adult I discovered things that led me to re-evaluate that mindset.

Catholics had a completely different way of approaching Christianity.
But I couldn't deny that they had a relationship with God. Even though it dismissed
some of the core tenets of Protestantism. Things that previously led me to
the conclusion that they weren't "saved". (whatever that means)

Similarly, liberal and progressive Christianity were viewed with skepticism.
As were those with the Protestant liturgical tradition. Barely distinguishable from Catholicism.
And I had yet to encounter anyone in the Orthodox tradition. Those in groups
considered to be religious cults were another issue.

All this has led me to a rather open position about what constitutes Christianity.
How have you dealt with this issue? A broad view, or a narrow view?

[
Regardless of what 'christian' denomination one claims, there remains only One Way to Eternal Life.

Thomas said to Him, “Lord, we do not know where You are going, and how can we know the way?”
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."

There were present at that season some who told Him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
And Jesus answered and said to them, “Do you suppose that these Galileans were worse sinners than all other Galileans, because they suffered such things? I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish. Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them, do you think that they were worse sinners than all other men who dwelt in Jerusalem?
I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.”

“Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or else make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for a tree is known by its fruit.
Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things?
For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good things, and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things.
But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment.
For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”
 

Dan Clarkston

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Would God play a high-stakes game of hide-and-seek with our souls?

WHY would anyone claim Jesus lied in Matthew 7:13,14 clueless-scratching.gif

Those doing this are definitely on the wide path that leads to eternal destruction
(spending eternity separated from the Lord being tormented in hell with the devil)



Saved from what, exactly?

Saved from spending eternity being separated from the Lord due to being a child of the devil getting the devil's reward which is eternity being tormented in the eternal fires of hell.... that's what.




How would a Catholic answer the question? Or a liturgical Lutheran? Orthodox?

Wrong answer.... how the Lord answers the question is the only thing that should be considered

All other viewpoints are irrelevant to those that actually love the Lord and desire to remain in right standing with Him.



How did all these fine folks establish a relationship with God?

Those that don't see things the Lord's way are in fact in opposition to the Lord and are His adversaries as they have set themselves in agreement with the devil instead of the Lord.




Won't those in Christ be spared judgment? Isn't judgment reserved for the unsaved?

Their works will be judged and they will be rewarded accordingly.

Not all judgement results in eternal separation from the Lord.



Did Jesus die only to save "Christians"? (whatever that means) ???

So you acknowledge that you are not a born again Christian?



Were the vast majority predestined for destruction?

No. Only the calvinist cult believes this




My aim was only to lead you away from the false doctrine of "eternal separation".

Sad that people keep saying Jesus is a liar concerning most people ending up in hell being separated from God for eternity

Those saying this are adversaries to the Lord just like the devil and have been blinded by the devil to reject what God says in His Word. This ends badly for such peoples.
 

Lizbeth

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Having been raised Protestant Evangelical Christian, there was always this perspective
that we had it right and those outside our mindset had it wrong.

As an adult I discovered things that led me to re-evaluate that mindset.

Catholics had a completely different way of approaching Christianity.
But I couldn't deny that they had a relationship with God. Even though it dismissed
some of the core tenets of Protestantism. Things that previously led me to
the conclusion that they weren't "saved". (whatever that means)

Similarly, liberal and progressive Christianity were viewed with skepticism.
As were those with the Protestant liturgical tradition. Barely distinguishable from Catholicism.
And I had yet to encounter anyone in the Orthodox tradition. Those in groups
considered to be religious cults were another issue.

All this has led me to a rather open position about what constitutes Christianity.
How have you dealt with this issue? A broad view, or a narrow view?

[
You would need to define your terms, which appear to be prejudicial, but by God's grace I hope I may stick with the narrow way that leads to life, not the broad way that leads to destruction. And my experience of mainstream evangelicalism is that it isn't narrow enough, since the 80's at least in North America and maybe earlier and has only gotten worse since then....or maybe it's true that "mainstream" has always missed the mark in every generation. Jesus did say He was sending us out as sheep among wolves.
 

St. SteVen

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Not sure where to begin. The answer I gave is (I assumed) a standard understanding of salvation (see, e.g., any NT sermons by Pastor Alister Begg). I was drawn into it by what I assumed was an innocent question from NTR, which turned out to be a rhetorical trap.

Perhaps you or some other members of this forum could list all the various definitions/understandings of salvation. I would be edified.

I am done with this thread.

Peace.
I meant no offense. The purpose of this thread is to challenge us to some broader thinking.

[
 

Lizbeth

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Yes, it's a far cry from what is taught in scripture. But it depends on your definition of "narrow". I'm talking about the narrow way that Jesus spoke about, which is the way of the cross and not for the faint of heart. Want to see...?


Col 3:1-4

If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.

For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.



1Jo 2:15-17

Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.



Mat 6:19-21

Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:

But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also……….



Mat 6:22-24

…………The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be SINGLE, thy whole body shall be full of light.

But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!

No man can serve TWO masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. (Mammom is the god of this world, involving pride of life, lust of the eyes, covetousness, chasing after things of this world like the pagans do etc.)……….


Mat 6:25-34

…………Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?

Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?

Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?

And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:

And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.

Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?

Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?

(For after all these things do the Gentiles (pagans/unbelievers) seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.

But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.



2Co 4:16-18

Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day.

For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all.

So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen, since what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.



The Narrow Way to Life is Through Death:


We should not marvel at this, since we are to follow in the Master’s footsteps:

Mat 16:21-27

From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.

But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but THOSE THAT BE OF MEN. (See, God’s ways are not man’s ways, not the ways of this world.)

Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.


2Co 4:8-11

We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair;

Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed;

Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.

For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.