Did ANYONE In Scripture (Including Jesus), Claim Jesus IS God?

[face2face]

In response, the Pharisees asked, "You are not yet fifty years old! Have you seen Abraham?", and Jesus answered, "[...] before Abraham came into existence, I AM". Jesus explicitly not only said that He existed before Abraham was born, but that He's always existed, by referring to Himself as "I AM", the name of God: "God said to Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, you shall say to the children of Israel, I AM has sent me to you" (Ex. 3:13-14). Before I explain how He's always existed, first, do you accept that that's what Jesus said?

How many ways could Jesus exist?
Do you have any Bible examples of a person who didn't literally exist but is spoken as existing?

Why did the Pharisees attempt to stone Jesus to death for referring to Himself as "I AM" if it's just a shareable family name?

They couldn't hear him could they?

Because you also can't hear me as you continue to ask uninformed questions and make unlearned statements!

John 8 Context: Whose Father ????

• John 8:19
  "Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also."
• John 8:28
  "Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things."
• John 8:38
  "I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father."
• John 8:49
  "Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me."
• John 8:54
  "Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:"

Jesus said:

• Your father Abraham was overjoyed to see my day, and he saw it and was glad Jn 8:55–56.

Now please no more ignorant forcing of the Trinity on this chapter! You KNOW why they picked up stones to stone him! I even colour coded it for you and if you still can't intrepret the context there is nothing I can do for you!

"Your father is the Devil" a serpent! Carnal minded Vipers! (snakes dont have ears!...can't hear!)

Don't immulate their example please.

F2F

 

[face2face]

Absolutely God was in Christ!!!

"The Lord God has given me the tongue of those who are taught, that I may know how to sustain with a word him who is weary. Morning by morning he awakens; he awakens my ear to hear as those who are taught." Isaiah 50:4

"And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man." Luke 2:52

Jesus at the age of 12...reasoning with the elders!

"Why were you looking for me? Did you not know that I must be in my Father's house?" (Luke 2:49,

1. Do you think he was taught by an Angel? Or maybe His Heavenly Father?

2. Or maybe you believe he was instantly filled with knowledge and became God upon birth?

Hmmm these verses do tell an interesting story!

F2F

 

[MonoBiblical]

No, the Pharisees asked Jesus how He could've known Abraham when He was not even fifty years old, and Jesus explained the reason why Abraham knew Him when he was alive, saying, "[...] before Abraham came into existence, I AM". Jesus explicitly not only said that He existed before Abraham was born, but that He's always existed, by referring to Himself as "I AM", the name of God: "God said to Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, you shall say to the children of Israel, I AM has sent me to you" (Ex. 3:13-14). The Pharisees attempted to stone Jesus to death after that for blasphemy, because they understood that He had said He's God.

It actually before Abraham becomes [i.e overjoyed], I am [he or it here, the light of the world]. He was supposedly defaming God for claiming to be his predicted son.

 

[Magdala]

It actually before Abraham becomes [i.e overjoyed], I am [he or it here, the light of the world]. He was supposedly defaming God for claiming to be his predicted son.

The Pharisees asked Jesus if He had seen Abraham, and He didn't answer, "before Abraham became overjoyed, I AM", but rather "before Abraham came into existence, I AM." Here are some synonyms for "come into existence": spring, descend, be brought forth, emanate, originate, come forth, begin, be born, start, and commence. Jesus explicitly not only said that He existed before Abraham was born, but that He's always existed, by referring to Himself as "I AM", the name of God: "And God spoke to Moses, saying, l AM THE BEING; and he said, Thus shall ye say to the children of Israel, THE BEING has sent me to you. And God said again to Moses, thus shalt thou say to the sons of Israel, the Lord God of our fathers, the God of Abraham, and God of Isaac, and God of Jacob, has sent me to you: this is My name for ever, and my memorial to generations of generations" (English translation from The Tanakh, Ex. 3:14-15). In response, the Pharisees attempted to stone Jesus to death for blasphemy, because they understood that He had said He's God.

 

[face2face]

In Jn. 8:58, Jesus actually doesn't say, "before Abraham became overjoyed", but rather "before Abraham came into existence, I AM". Here are some synonyms for "come into existence": spring, descend, be brought forth, emanate, originate, come forth, begin, be born, start, and commence. Jesus explicitly not only said that He existed before Abraham was born, but that He's always existed, by referring to Himself as "I AM", the name of God: "God said to Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, you shall say to the children of Israel, I AM has sent me to you" (Ex. 3:13-14), Who is eternal. The Pharisees attempted to stone Jesus to death after that for blasphemy, because they understood that He had said He's God.

You lose all credibility by reposting the same content repeatedly.

 

[Magdala]

You lose all credibility by reposting the same content repeatedly.

If people didn't have to make me repeat myself then I wouldn't, would I?

 

[face2face]

@LuxMundi the way I'm seeing you would be a step or two behind this verse:

always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth. 2 Tim 3:7

Don't be that person!

 

[face2face]

People should just read what I post so that I don't have to repeat myself.

Cause and effect!

 

[Magdala]

How many ways could Jesus exist?
Do you have any Bible examples of a person who didn't literally exist but is spoken as existing?

I said that before I explain how He's always existed, first, do you accept that that's what Jesus said? See the following: The Pharisees asked Jesus, "You are not yet fifty years old! Have you seen Abraham?" (Jn. 8:57), and Jesus answered, "[...] before Abraham came into existence, I AM" (Jn. 8:58) Jesus explicitly not only said that He existed before Abraham was born, but that He's always existed, by referring to Himself as "I AM", the name of God: "And God spoke to Moses, saying, l AM THE BEING; and he said, Thus shall ye say to the children of Israel, THE BEING has sent me to you. And God said again to Moses, thus shalt thou say to the sons of Israel, the Lord God of our fathers, the God of Abraham, and God of Isaac, and God of Jacob, has sent me to you: this is My name for ever, and my memorial to generations of generations" (English translation from The Tanakh, Ex. 3:14-15).

They couldn't hear him could they?

Because you also can't hear me as you continue to ask uninformed questions and make unlearned statements!

John 8 Context: Whose Father ????

• John 8:19
  "Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also."
• John 8:28
  "Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things."
• John 8:38
  "I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father."
• John 8:49
  "Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me."
• John 8:54
  "Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:"

Jesus said:

• Your father Abraham was overjoyed to see my day, and he saw it and was glad Jn 8:55–56.

Now please no more ignorant forcing of the Trinity on this chapter! You KNOW why they picked up stones to stone him! I even colour coded it for you and if you still can't intrepret the context there is nothing I can do for you!

"Your father is the Devil" a serpent! Carnal minded Vipers! (snakes dont have ears!...can't hear!)

Don't immulate their example please.

You said that "I AM" is a shareable family name. Why did the Pharisees attempt to stone Jesus to death after He called Himself "I AM" if it's just a shareable family name?

 

[face2face]

I said that before I explain how He's always existed, first, do you accept that that's what Jesus said? See the following: The Pharisees asked Jesus, "You are not yet fifty years old! Have you seen Abraham?", and Jesus answered, "[...] before Abraham came into existence, I AM." Jesus explicitly not only said that He existed before Abraham was born, but that He's always existed, by referring to Himself as "I AM", the name of God: "God said to Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, you shall say to the children of Israel, I AM has sent me to you" (Ex. 3:13-14). Who is eternal. Before I explain how He's always existed, first, do you accept that that's what Jesus said?



You said that "I AM" is a shareable family name. Why did the Pharisees attempt to stone Jesus to death after He called Himself "I AM" if it's just a shareable family name?

1. So you lose credibility
2. You show a failure to engage
3. You come across as someone who is closed-minded, unwilling to listen, and not interested in engaging in meaningful dialogue.

Your argument falls over and you along with it.

 

[face2face]

It is this kind of spirit that led 220-250 church leaders to vote for the doctrine of men—an arrogant, self-righteous attitude that has no place in the Household of God. It's aggressive in nature, and like the repetition of prayers, it's pure vanity. @LuxMundi has consistently demonstrated that spirit since the first time I witnessed her repetitive posting.

A continual dripping on a very rainy day and a contentious woman are alike. Proverbs 27:15

Reposting is an irritation and an annoyance!

 

[quietthinker]

Did ANYONE In Scripture (Including Jesus), Claim Jesus IS God?

Yes? Please offer Scriptural Quote.

Glory to God,
Taken

The Jews clearly got the message Jesus was conveying that he was equal with God and they didn't like it. John 5:16-47

 

[face2face]

The Jews clearly got the message Jesus was conveying he was equal with God and they didn't like it. John 5:16-47

It was a culmination of everything the Lord said, all of which was true.

 

[Taken]

Jesus never said He was not Good.

Yes he did. He rebuked the person who said he was a good teacher.

Rebuke … means to disapprove.

Good … means morally righteous.

Mark 10:
[[7] And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him… Good Master,

Mark 10:
[18] And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good?

What occurred…was …
A man ran up to Jesus,
Kneeled down before Jesus,
Addressed Jesus “Good Master…
And …
Jesus asked the man, WHY the man called Jesus “Good”.

The man Never SAID “WHY”. he called Jesus “Good”.

Jesus Never SAID He was Not Good.

He explicitly said he is not God and implicitly said he is not good.

That is NOT True.
* The man, Never answered Jesus’ Question.
*Jesus Never Rebuked the man For Calling Jesus “Good”.
*Jesus Never Said He was “Not” Good.

*Jesus made a Statement, Revealing, a TRUTH…saying…
“Only God IS Good”.

* Then Jesus answered the mans Question.

* The man departed…and Jesus “gave A Lesson to His Disciples”.

*You missed the Lesson, Jesus was teaching men…WHO would be Sent to Preach Gods Word to other men.

* The Lesson is This…
If and When…any JEW /ISRAELITE man is a “Representative Disciple of Jesus, (Gods Word)…
Teach other (JEWS /ISRAELITES) ( Gods Truth)… Of HOW “ANY” JEW / ISRAELITE CAN inherit eternal Life…

* Teach THEM WHAT?
To Observe The Mosaic “Commandments”
Mark 10:19

* AND… for the Disciples to BE AWARE…
When a Wealthy, man has all his needs and wants met without struggle or discomfort claims he Obeys the (mosaic) Commandments…

* CHALLENGE that man….
IF he WOULD OBEY all the Mosaic COMMANDS…(not Steal, not Lie, not Cheat, etc,)….IF he were Poor?

Jesus “made a challenge to the man…to Literally experience…poorness, struggles, hardship…. FOR the man to Discover his OWN TRUE Character and Standing in Obedience TO Gods Word.

The Lesson is:
It is EASY to Follow After Gods Word…WHEN an individual…has no Debt, Providing, Hardship Worries….
And…
WILL a person…WITH…debts, provision shortages, hardships….STILL Trust and Follow After God in Obedience to His Word?

* THOSE ^^ are the Dilemmas Jesus was Teaching His Disciples THEY would Face…WHEN…THEY would be SENT oUT TO TEACH… (The Israelites /JEWS).

Why…?
Jews and ISRAELITES Specific?

Scripture Tells you…
* Jesus came to Seek and Teach the JEWS who became ….more interested in Gentile ways.. of Gaining WEALTH (by ANY means…Deceit, lying, theft, cheating)…is the way to Trust In a god).

* Check history…the Enslavement of Jews…the Slaughter of Jews.

* Check the Scriptures…
Jesus came to seek the LOST Jews…
Matt 15:24

*Jesus sent His Disciple to Seek the LOST Jews….Not the Gentiles.
Matt 10:5

* WHAT you, “by your own words understood from
Mark 10… IS:

He (Jesus) explicitly said he is not God and implicitly said he is not good.

No. Jesus said no such thing.

Scripture repeatedly reveals…
Jesus IS without Sin…IS Righteous…IS Gods Word…IS God…IS Good…IS I AM He…

John 1:
[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Mark 10:
[18b]…. there is none good but one, that is, God.

John 18:
[8b]Jesus answered, I have told you that I am he:

You would do well to heed Scriptural Warnings…To stop preaching what Gods Word Does NOT Say.

Glory to God,
Taken









Language Usage.
P1. If I say that I have a gardener and someone accuses me of having a green thumb AND
P2. I rebuke that accusation on the grounds that only my gardener has a green thumb
C. We must accept that I am denying the term green thumb applies to me.

Otherwise, just accept the compliment.

In John 17:1-3, Jesus separates himself from the one true God. He refers to himself as the one he (the one true God) sent. It is disingenuous to suppose he is claiming deity status in response to the man merely calling him a good teacher. This especially in light of him saying that glorifying himself to mean nothing at John 8:54. You are contradicting Jesus in claiming he is glorifying himself in the highest possible terms.
[/QUOTE]

 

[Taken]

"The Lord God has given me the tongue of those who are taught, that I may know how to sustain with a word him who is weary. Morning by morning he awakens; he awakens my ear to hear as those who are taught." Isaiah 50:4

"And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man." Luke 2:52

Jesus at the age of 12...reasoning with the elders!

"Why were you looking for me? Did you not know that I must be in my Father's house?" (Luke 2:49,

1. Do you think he was taught by an Angel? Or maybe His Heavenly Father?

2. Or maybe you believe he was instantly filled with knowledge and became God upon birth?

Hmmm these verses do tell an interesting story!

F2F

But DID you Understand the mysterious Story? Many DO Not.

God Himself Purposed IN Himself…
To come to Earth IN the Likeness “AS” a human man…

An Ignorant Babe…Unknowing…of WHAT a GOD IS…or WHO is GOD.

A babe…taught… presuming being taught (ABOUT God) since being raised by Faithful Jewish earthly parents of the House of David…

And REVEALED…this ignorant babe… learned, sought, accepted, followed, learned more, increased in Knowledge…and took upon Himself to accomplish Gods Mission…To Speak, Teach, Gods Word TO the lost Jews.

And A mysterious Surprise Revealed…
God in His own Wisdom…purposed Himself To appear IN the Likeness “AS” a human man…TO TEACH “ignorant human men…Gods Truth.

Eph.1
[9] Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

And God NAMED His Word…JESUS
And God TITLED His True Word …CHRIST

Eph.3
[11] According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Jesus Christ IS God In The Likeness AS A Human…sent to Teach “naturally born, sinful. ignorant rejecting humans, whining they can not Believe, by hearing. But can only believe, by SEEING”….HOW TO become MADE “forgiven and Reconciled WITH God….Without Seeing The invisible God”.

Do you get it? Many DO Not.
Thousands of humans ….SAW the “invisible God”…appear to their Human Eyes, in a manner Human EYES could SEE….And? They still could Not Believe…

And today…Millions of men…Still DO NOT Believe God Appeared to human men, in a manner, Human Eyes could See…(2,000 years ago.)

They use Double oxymoron speech…
“God Human…”
God Is the Creator.
ManKind is the Created.

God IS NOT Both.

Fact is God IS a Spirit.
Created Angels ARE Spirits.
ManKind IS NOT A Spirit.
ManKind HAS a Spirit.

Spirits (God, and angels) HAVE THE POWER…to Appear To Humans…in the outer LIKENESS appearance of a Human Body.

Outer appearance…no more MAKES God or Angels A Human…
Than A Human MAN whose outer appearance is LIKE a Female…makes that male A female.

God is Spirit…
Angels are created Spirits.
Men are Created humans males.
Women are Created females…
Regardless of what their Outer Appearance LOOKS “LIKE”.

Glory To God,
Taken

 

[ProDeo]

I asked a question. Try answering it.

Like I said, my worry is that you don't have fully understood the Gospel. You miss a lot rejecting the divinity of Christ.

I understand the Gospel. No need to worry. I just reject the manmade, 4th century IDOL that contradicts Scripture

AD 325 was about 318 church leaders to agree and 316 did. But we have the statements of 2 pupils of the Apostle John who clearly said that Jesus was God in the human flesh just as the Apostle John wrote in John 1, the Word was God and the Word became flesh.

In the hope I answered your question sufficiently I now repeat my question out of curiosity - Allow me a question, in your services to do sing praise to, or glorify Jesus? I know we do, loud and joyful. And most of all thankful.

I never been in the Kingdom Hall.

 

[ProDeo]

Mark 10:
[18b]…. there is none good but one, that is, God.

Glorifying the Father in meekness and humbleness.

Matt 11:29 - take up my yoke upon you, and learn from me, because I am meek and humble in heart, and ye shall find rest to your souls,

Glory to God,

Amen.

 

[David in NJ]

"The Lord God has given me the tongue of those who are taught, that I may know how to sustain with a word him who is weary. Morning by morning he awakens; he awakens my ear to hear as those who are taught." Isaiah 50:4

"And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man." Luke 2:52

Jesus at the age of 12...reasoning with the elders!

"Why were you looking for me? Did you not know that I must be in my Father's house?" (Luke 2:49,

1. Do you think he was taught by an Angel? Or maybe His Heavenly Father?

2. Or maybe you believe he was instantly filled with knowledge and became God upon birth?

Hmmm these verses do tell an interesting story!

F2F

OF course this is no shocker or surprise to us who know the Truth = Philippians 2:5-11

Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, as He already existed in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but emptied Himself by taking the form of a bond-servant and being born in the likeness of men.
And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death: death on a cross.

For this reason also God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name,
so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

 

[Wrangler]

Like I said, my worry is

I understand why you cannot answer simple questions. Your dogma cannot hold up to the slightest scrutiny.

the Apostle John who clearly said that Jesus was God in the human flesh just as the Apostle John wrote in John 1,

In no way did John say Jesus was God, neither clearly nor implied. You keep wanting to use his Gospel in contradiction to his own stated purpose in 20:31.

you miss a lot rejecting the divinity of Christ.

You are making up a lot violating the 1C.

I never been in the Kingdom Hall.

Neither have I been to the Kingdom Hall.

 

[RedFan]

OF course this is no shocker or surprise to us who know the Truth = Philippians 2:5-11

Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, as He already existed in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but emptied Himself by taking the form of a bond-servant and being born in the likeness of men.
And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death: death on a cross.

For this reason also God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name,
so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

YES! @David in NJ, you've just redeemed yourself from all of the dumb arguments you've advanced in favor the Son's divinity, and hit on the one that I accept wholeheartedly. Thank you!

There is a bit of a disconnect between "He already existed in the form of God" and "God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name." You can't exalt someone who is already exalted as God. You can't bestow on someone what what He already possesses as God. But there is an easy way to repair the disconnect, and that is what Paul is telling us something about the Incarnation -- the "emptying," if you will:

During the 30-odd years that Jesus Christ walked the planet, every statement he made indicating subservience to God the Father, and every instance where He disclaimed knowledge of something God would know, and every statement that could be construed as indicative of lack of divinity -- in short, every gospel quote the anti-Trinitarians lift as their proof texts -- DOES NOT PROVE THAT HE WASN'T GOD BEFORE THOSE YEARS, OR THAT HE ISN'T GOD TODAY. This was a TEMPORARY relinquishment, according to Paul. Whatever the essence or substance or ousia or "stuff" of God-ness is, the Son had it from the beginning, and will have it forever -- those 30-odd years excepted. The glass was full before the Incarnation, and filled up again after the Ascension. What He poured out of that glass on mankind in that interim period is what saves us and lets us attain to God-ness ourselves.