Exploring Trinitarian Logic

[RLT63]

The special” of it was that Yeshua was the true Son of God. The significance of it was that God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son. The significance of the sacrifice was that He was the Son of God and lived His life without sin.

Now I want to make something clear, if the scriptures said that God made Miriam pregnant or if the scriptures said that Yahweh put the baby Yeshua in her belly….I would be OK with that. But the words associated with her or Yeshua do not indicate anything but the normal process….and again if it was not the normal process could the scriptures call Yeshua the Son of God…. If not He would be the miracle of God.

God so love the world that He did a miracle and put Yeshua in Miriam, and He would be called the miracle baby.

Again virgin does not equal holy.
Because Christians over time developed a belief that sex was dirty, nasty, and sinful and of the Devil. They have a tendency to fixate on it. It is a wonder they do not consider an Apostle and Apostle unless they were a virgin. It is one of the reason that Catholic clergy are celibate because they believe you are not really right with God unless you are virgin. It all amounts to religious hoopla.

You are saying that the Holy Spirit had sex with Mary. I would be careful if I was you

 

[Wrangler]

Scripture says Christ is both son of man and son of God. We need to just accept that instead of trying to pit scripture against scripture

Keep in mind these are titles, not biological relationships. The same with Messiah, Christ, Anointed, Word, Lamb, Priest, Apostle OF God.

By contrast, Scripture explicitly states repeatedly that Jesus is a man, which is a biological category. Jesus is literally a man, not a lamb.

 

[Lizbeth]

Keep in mind these are titles, not biological relationships. The same with Messiah, Christ, Anointed, Word, Lamb, Priest, Apostle OF God.

By contrast, Scripture explicitly states repeatedly that Jesus is a man, which is a biological category. Jesus is literally a man, not a lamb.

I dont know if I'm understanding your point or not, but He was begotten of God not of man........God was His father, Jesus was not conceived in the human way....He had no earthly father.

Yes scripture states repeatedly that Jesus is a man, but it also states repeatedly that He was and is God (and son of God).

 

[Lizbeth]

I hope you realize that God is not the only Illuminator…..there is a pretender in the camp who give a really good impression of being “an angel of light”.

1 Cor 11:12-15….
”But what I am doing I will continue to do, in order to eliminate the pretext of those who are wanting a basis for being found equal to us in the things about which they boast. 13  For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 14  And no wonder, for Satan himself keeps disguising himself as an angel of light. 15  It is therefore nothing extraordinary if his ministers also keep disguising themselves as ministers of righteousness. But their end will be according to their works.”

Look at the works…..look at what they do, not just what they say…..talk is cheap. Christendom is a disunited and fractured mess……not even close to Paul’s description at 1 Cor 1:10….

Most “born again” Christians cannot explain what it means, or why they need to be “born again”.

Can you explain what you think it means? Do all Christians need to be “born again”? What is the purpose of it?

Jesus said ye must be born again to enter the kingdom of heaven. Its purpose is to save our souls unto eternal life. Just in my own words, but mental assent of our natural mind is not sufficient for eternal life, we need to have received Christ (His Spirit) into our heart/spirit. In this way we become a new (renewed) and sanctified spiritual creature, a citizen of heaven, born from above...being reborn spiritually. Becoming and receiving a new man, which is a spiritual man, and thus fit for heaven because the new man is of heaven and made of heaven's substance, think we could say. Our old natural man of the flesh is of the earth, earthy, like Adam and cannot inherit eternal life.

Having a mental belief in God without actually receiving Christ into one's being, is like the Israelites under the Law.......having an intellectual belief in God and being obedient to His laws will have certain blessings for this life but doesn't save unto eternal life. If anyone has not yet received Christ and been born of Him, I hope they will be encouraged to seek Him:

Act 17:26-27

And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

Yes, the evangelical born again church is in a mess, and it's devastating. The devil has been busy seeking who he may devour, drawing many into deceptions and sins. I believe we are seeing the falling away and nearing the return of the Lord and end of this world.

 

[Grailhunter]

You are saying that the Holy Spirit had sex with Mary. I would be careful if I was you

I did not even mention the Holy Spirit.

 

[Grailhunter]

I like the nailing Jello to the wall analogy, lol. Scripture says Christ is both son of man and son of God. We need to just accept that instead of trying to pit scripture against scripture,....whether or not we understand and can nail down how this can be. The bible says this is a great mystery. He was born of a woman but begotten of God. And He pre-existed in eternity in the "form of God". But He humbled Himself to walk as a man, a perfect man perfectly obedient and submitted to the Father.

And as I said, that is what "we all" are debating.
Good to be thinking and talking about the Godhead.

 

[Lizbeth]

Appeal to Diversion. So, the Scripture that explicitly teaches ‘God is not a man’ are words that can be tossed aside to embrace its contradiction because your IDOL demands it?!

We need to look at the whole counsel of God and to understand what HE means by everything that is written. God "IS" not a man, He is Spirit, but somehow, wonderfully, He came and dwelt in the body of a man, Christ Jesus. "A body hast though prepared for me."

 

[RLT63]

I did not even mention the Holy Spirit.

Mat 1:18 - This is how Jesus the Messiah was born. His mother, Mary, was engaged to be married to Joseph. But before the marriage took place, while she was still a virgin, she became pregnant through the power of the Holy Spirit..

Tools
Luk 1:35 - The angel replied, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the baby to be born will be holy, and he will be called the Son of God.

 

[Wrangler]

begotten of God not of man

Begotten means created.

 

[RLT63]

Begotten means created.

Not really, unless you think you created your children

 

[Wrangler]

God "IS" not a man, He is Spirit, but somehow, wonderfully, He came and dwelt in the body of a man, Christ Jesus.

This makes Jesus - and all of us - a container for God’s Spirit. A container is not what it contains. Jesus is NOT God.

 

[Wrangler]

Not really, unless you think you created your children

Yup. Except reality is independent of thought. Begotten means created. Look it up.

 

[Grailhunter]

Mat 1:18 - This is how Jesus the Messiah was born. His mother, Mary, was engaged to be married to Joseph. But before the marriage took place, while she was still a virgin, she became pregnant through the power of the Holy Spirit..

Tools
Luk 1:35 - The angel replied, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the baby to be born will be holy, and he will be called the Son of God.

Luke 1:35 - The angel replied, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the baby to be born will be holy, and he will be called the Son of God.

 

[Behold]

This makes Jesus - and all of us - a container for God’s Spirit.

All the born again are the "Temple of the Holy Spirit"......so, the CHRISTian, is the "container for God's Spirit".

Absolutely.

 

[Wrangler]

All the born again are the "Temple of the Holy Spirit"......so, the CHRISTian, is the "container for God's Spirit".

Absolutely.

Christ contained the same spirit. Absolutely.

 

[Behold]

Christ contained the same spirit. Absolutely.

Let me show you this..

"God is A Spirit"..

"Jesus is THAT Spirit".

In Genesis, God gave the Spirit to Adam.
In John 20, Jesus gave the Spirit to the 11 Apostles.

See that?

Only God is THE Spirit and only God can GIVE the Spirit........and they DID.

In Acts 2, Jesus sent it down to us all.

Only GOD can do that for us.

 

[Lizbeth]

Begotten means created.

There is no end to the wresting of scripture it seems. Except that it doesn't end well for those who do that.

 

[RLT63]

Yup. Except reality is independent of thought. Begotten means created. Look it up.

Yup. Except reality is independent of thought. Begotten means created. Look it up.

What does begotten in the Bible mean?


In the Bible, the word "begotten" means to have been born or brought forth. It's the past participle of the verb "beget", which means to father or produce as offspring.

In the Bible, the term "begotten" is used in a few different ways:

• To express divinity
  In the Nicene Creed, Jesus is described as "begotten not made" to express that he is God and not a created being. The word "begotten" expresses the divinity that was passed down from God the Father to Jesus Christ.
  
  
• To refer to a unique relationship
  Jesus is called the "only begotten Son of God" because he was the only person to be born of a mortal mother and an immortal father. The word "begotten" refers to the unique relationship between the Father and Son, not to procreation.
  
  
• To refer to spiritual birth
  Jesus uses the word "begotten" to refer to spiritual birth.
  
  
• To refer to a relational union
  Paul uses the word "begotten" to refer to the relational union formed when he led the Corinthians and Onesimus to faith.
  

Newer Bibles often translate "begotten" as "became the father of" or "was father to".

 

[Wrangler]

Let me show you this..

"God is A Spirit"..

"Jesus is THAT Spirit".

No. Contradicts Scripture, which states repeatedly that Jesus is a man.

 

[Wrangler]

In the Bible, the term "begotten" is used in a few different ways:

• To express divinity
  In the Nicene Creed

The Nicene Creed is not in the Bible.