Well, I am now nlooking into chapters 19 and 20...... and even without looking back to other relevant verses in both the old and the new testament, it is extremely difficult to understand the timing of His return, the 1000 years - symbolic or literal, whether it is on earth or in heaven, and how can anyone who has been with Christ for those 1000 years even consider the words that come out of the mouth of satan when he is released for a short time? This has got to be symbolic and at this time, very difficult to put together.... and once again, it is without considering the other verses outside of Revelation. Does anyone have thoughts on these events, their timing and how anyone could possibly be tempted by Satan after being with God?
Revelation - chapters 19 and 20
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Ummm...did you perhaps skip reading Genesis 2 and 3 or something? I can't imagine anyone asking a question like that if they have read those 2 chapters.
Genesis 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
Genesis 2:21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day : and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.
ewq1938
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ScottA
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Hello
Please consider that Rev 19 and Rev 20 cover the same time period. Rev 19 starts when Christ is given dominion over all of the earth, as per Daniel 7:13-14 after the Heavenly hosts have been judged and imprisoned in a pit for many days to await the time of their punishment which is when Rev 20 starts with Satan being grabbed by an angel chained up and imprisoned in the Bottomless pit after he is judged in heaven and no place was found for him there.
Both Rev 19 and 20 cover the same time period.
Please consider that Rev 19 and Rev 20 cover the same time period. Rev 19 starts when Christ is given dominion over all of the earth, as per Daniel 7:13-14 after the Heavenly hosts have been judged and imprisoned in a pit for many days to await the time of their punishment which is when Rev 20 starts with Satan being grabbed by an angel chained up and imprisoned in the Bottomless pit after he is judged in heaven and no place was found for him there.
Both Rev 19 and 20 cover the same time period.
Galgal
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I will comment on two verses.
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
(Revelation 20:4,5)
beheaded - This translation does not reflect the Greek original well. There is no "head" in the root of the word. The literal translation of the word is "cut off with an axe." It means "excommunicated." Excommunicated from Judaism in the first centuries - for their faith in Jesus Christ. Excommunicated from Christianity in later centuries - for their loyalty to the same Jesus Christ. Only such will rise in the first resurrection.
This verse must be explained in the same sense:
And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. (Revelation 6:11)
This is not about literal death, but about excommunication from society:
Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. (Matthew 24:9)
Saints will be hated in any country in the world, they will be excommunicated from Catholicism, from Orthodoxy, from Protestantism. Israel will accept such saints - and this will save the Jews.
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
(Revelation 20:4,5)
beheaded - This translation does not reflect the Greek original well. There is no "head" in the root of the word. The literal translation of the word is "cut off with an axe." It means "excommunicated." Excommunicated from Judaism in the first centuries - for their faith in Jesus Christ. Excommunicated from Christianity in later centuries - for their loyalty to the same Jesus Christ. Only such will rise in the first resurrection.
This verse must be explained in the same sense:
And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. (Revelation 6:11)
This is not about literal death, but about excommunication from society:
Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. (Matthew 24:9)
Saints will be hated in any country in the world, they will be excommunicated from Catholicism, from Orthodoxy, from Protestantism. Israel will accept such saints - and this will save the Jews.
Being in the presence of God did not stop the third of the angels in heaven while in the presence of God, chose to rebel and follow Satan.
And Jesus will rule the nations with a rod iron during the 1000 years. Necessary because the spirit of rebellion will still reside among some humans.
As far as the timeline....the last rebellion of nations, deceived by Satan, will be in the short space between the end of the millennium and the beginning of the GWT judgement. The short space of time denoted by the red square on my chart.
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Chapter 19: John sees the Marriage Supper of the Lamb begin as a direct result of the death of apostate Israel and the Old Covenant age. In essence, Israel, God’s wife [Ezekiel 16.32] had committed apostasy, which was the same thing as “sexual immorality” [Ezekiel 16]. According to Christ, divorce could be issued because of “sexual immorality”. [Matthew 5.31-32] Hence, God divorced his adulterous wife Israel by having her destroyed with fire, which was the Old Covenant death sentence for women who were “sexually immoral” (if they were related to priests, which Israel was). [Leviticus 21.9] God divorced ethnic apostate Israel in order to marry true Israel, which is the Church.
The overarching theme of Revelation 16-19 perfectly fits Christ’s parable of the wedding feast [Matthew 22.1-15], right down to the burning of “their city” being immediately followed by the wedding feast. The second half of the book symbolically represents Christ’s victory over the world including the Roman Empire and apostate Israel with the sword of His mouth His word. The demonic beings influencing Rome, Apostate Israel and their leaders are cast into the lake of fire alive.
Chapter 20: John sees Satan bound up so that he could not deceive the nations, a symbolic representation of the great chain the power of the gospel. The “first resurrection” refers to the resurrection of Jesus Christ “the first fruits”. [1 Corinthians 15.20] thus when we believe we are spiritually raised to life and reign with Christ. Verse 4 shows that even when we die physically we are still alive spiritually reigning with Christ. (Rev. 14.13: “blessed are those who die in the Lord from now on”) The “thousand years” is symbolic of the era of the Church age,
The number 1000 is a symbolic numeral for “completion”. Thus, when the “thousand years” end, the plan of God will be brought to completion. Satan will be released from his thousand-year binding, bringing about a great deception. Satan’s people (symbolized as “Gog and Magog”) will attempt to destroy the Church (symbolized as “God’s holy city”), the rapture will take place immediately followed by the second coming of Christ. Satan will be cast into the lake of fire. Christ will sit upon his throne, and he will bring about the resurrection of the dead. All of mankind (and angels) will be judged. John sees the wicked cast into the lake of fire. Finally, John sees Death itself destroyed by Christ.
So when are you saying Daniel 7:13-14 is initially meaning? A lot of us, Premil and Amil alike, take it to be meaning when Christ ascended to heaven 2000 years ago. Except I can't see Revelation 19 nor 20 fitting that time period. There wasn't anyone cast into the LOF 2000 years ago(Revelation 19:20).
If you perhaps see Daniel 7:13-14 as future still, per what you said then, that would make Revelation 19 and 20 future still, as well. The logic would then be that this 'many days' they are to wait in the pit for their judgment would be meaning the thousand years, which is what you conclude. Except a thousand years can't be less than a thousand years. They have to at least be a thousand years. Therefore, many days equal at least 1000 literal years at the minimum.
If you perhaps think 'many days' can't involve a lengthy time, such as a thousand years, what about the following in Daniel 8, for example?
Daniel 8:26 And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days.
Obviously---for it shall be for many days---is meaning over 500 years later or maybe even thousands of years later. Depending on how you look at it. Meaning from the time Daniel received the vision and that the vision is no longer shut up.
The problem with this view of yours, Daniel 7:13-14 does not appear to be future still, it appears it was already fulfilled 2000 years ago. And that Revelation 19 and 20 doesn't fit 2000 years ago though there are Amils that think Revelation 20:1-6 fit 2000 years ago. But only those verses and not ch 19 as well nor verses 7-15 in Revelation 20.
Ronald Nolette
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Well the 1000 year kingdom occurs on earth after Je3sus returns and judges the nations(peoples) And it is not people who are saved that rebel after the 1000 years ans Satan is loosed.
It will be a youth rebeillion and the people involved will all be under 100 years old. The survivors of the tribulation that go into the kingdom will go into the kingdom and repopulate the earth.
The old testament shows this clearly and people will have till their 100th birthday to accept Christ or die. So this rebellion will be those under 100 who Isaiah says will be like children.
In Ezekiel 34, God promises the gathered Israelites after the end of the visitation of the father's iniquities upon their children and their children's children in the third and fourth age/generation of their existence from the time of Isaac's birth, that he would remove the beasts of Daniel 7 and Satan from the face of the earth for a period of time. In Revelations 20:1-3 we are told that this period of time will be 1,000 years when the Bottomless pit is unlocked for a little while period.
Now Daniel 7:11-12 does not happen until after the completion of the third and the fourth age of the existence of the nation of Israel which comes to its conclusion in around 20 years' time. Immediately after the judgement of the beasts in Daniel 7:11-12, we have the son of man being given dominion over all of the peoples of the earth such that they should worship Him in Daniel 7:13-14. Daniel also tells us in the Daniel 2 statue prophecy that during the time of the kings of the fifth segment of the statue, which is during this present time period, that a stone uncut by human hands will come down out of heaven and strike the statue's feet and cause the statue to topple to the ground such that this stone can grind the statue into dust/chaff which will then get blown away by the wind of the spirit over the time of the great harvest of souls.
This stone that comes down out of heaven in our near future, in around 20 years' time, will the become the largest mountain/religion in all of the earth before Satan, the beasts in heaven are judged in heaven, and the judged kings of the earth are judged at a place know as Armageddon.
So logically, after God judges the heavenly hosts and the kings of the earth and gathers them together to be imprisoned in the Bottomless pit for 1,000 years before they are released once more, that Christ is given dominion over the peoples of the earth and God's everlasting kingdom which is stablished on the face of the earth at the same time that the stone comes down out of heaven.
Rev 19 initially speaks of Christ being given dominion over the peoples of the earth in heaven, and Rev 20:1-3 tells us that at the same time, Satan and the judged heavenly hosts and the judged kings of the earth will be gathered together and imprisoned in the Bottomless pit for 1,000 solar years.
The problem with your understanding of God's End Time prophetic words is that you appear to have no understanding of God's end time prophecies such that they mesh in harmony with what God has foretold us, will happen.
We all have only around 20 years for what I have posts to be proved or disproved.
My confidence is in what God has already told us will happen. He has already allowed the signs that herald the judgement of the heavenly hosts and the kings of the earth to be seen by all of the peoples of the earth. That sign was 9/11.
Shalom
TribulationSigns
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ewq1938
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You didn't, and can't dispute what I said because what I said is true. All you have is a one liner denial, devoid of any evidence.
Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
Here are some things to consider which you might find useful, or not.
In Revelation 20:5 the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. It doesn’t say they lived again after Satan’s little season, it’s after the thousand years. So the rest of the dead lived again and were alive during Satan’s little season. This point makes it much more likely that it’s not referring to physically dead people.
Example of someone who might fit this category, Luke 9:60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.
The beloved city in Revelation 20:9 is able to be compassed on earth, thus eliminating the heavenly Jerusalem as the beloved city. Fire comes down and devours “them”, which could be either the camp of the saints/beloved city or the deceived nations.
In Revelation 20:10 the devil is cast into the lake of fire where the beast and false prophet. (No, I didn’t forget to add the next word) In our translations the word “are” is sometimes inserted after “prophet” and sometimes the word “were” is used. In the Greek there is no word that clarifies if the beast and false prophet were in the LOF or if they are in the LOF. It could even be interpreted as the devil is cast into the lake of fire where the beast and false prophet are going. Meaning this event is the same event in Revelation 19:20 where the beast and false prophet are cast into the LOF. It might be possible to link the dragon giving his power, seat, and authority to the beast occurring when Satan is bound, then having Revelation 20 picking up the storyline of what happened to Satan after the Revelation 13:2 transfer of power.
Ok, I saved this for last, I don’t really agree with this but I know you see the papacy in several places in Revelation. I don’t remember all the details of this view I came across but the Revelation 19:17-18 birds that gather to eat the flesh of kings, mighty men, and … is a picture of the unfaithful eating the Lords supper. They are taking part in the ceremony but they are not eating Jesus’ flesh (John 6:54). The birds are tied back the Revelation 18:2 where Babylon is the cage of every unclean and hateful bird. I don’t remember anything else about that view or how it tied together with other verses but you might find it interesting anyway.
ewq1938
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The beast and FP are cast into the fire in Rev 19 but satan isn't. instead, he is bound and imprisoned for a thousand years. Afterward, satan will be cast into the fire where the other two had previously be cast. It's contextually clear the two go there first, and much later satan goes to the same place. The events of Armageddon etc do take place BEFORE the events of Rev 20.
Thanks and that is interesting because on the earth for those 1000 years, the beast and the harlot are not able to preach their false gospel to those that survived Christ's coming. And they will not be brought out of the abyss as satan will be after the 1000 years... there is something to think about.... why only him and not the other two.....?
Smith’s Literal
And the devil deceiving them was cast into the lake of fire and sulphur, where are the wild beast and false prophet, and they shall be tortured day and night for ever and ever.
ESV
and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
KJV
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Which interpretation is the correct one? It’s not contextually clear else we wouldn’t have the various words inserted after the word “prophet”.
ewq1938
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I already explained the context regarding the two being cast into fire first, and much later satan is cast there as well.
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