Exploring Trinitarian Logic

[face2face]

Wow, no. A thousand times, no. If that were the case any human could have been sacrificed to save mankind....there would have been no need for a heavenly man.

So Christ was a man in Heaven Lizbeth?
What type of man was he? His nature?
Do share...do you have a verse that teaches us about this Heavenly Man?
F2F

 

[face2face]

Pro_26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

J.

"Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own eyes"
Prov 26:5

 

[APAK]

I don't have to prove nothing to you.

In the Old Testament, the Levitical priests had to be sympathetic toward the people because they were themselves human, frail, and subject to the same weaknesses. The Hebrew word for "infirmity" in the context of priests and sacrifice is חָלָשׁ (chalah) and עֶצֶב (etseb), which convey the ideas of illness or weakness.

חָלָשׁ (chalah): This Hebrew term refers to physical illness, weakness, or vulnerability. It can also refer to a state of being morally or spiritually "weakened" or "sick." The priests, in their role, had to be aware of the frailty of human beings due to the effects of sin on the body and soul.

This idea of human frailty is crucial to understanding Jesus' identification with humanity.

עֶצֶב (etseb): Meaning "sorrow" or "suffering," this word is associated with emotional and physical distress. It highlights the idea of anguish and the burdens of life, which is integral to Jesus' identification with human suffering in His role as High Priest.

Understanding Jesus' Role through Greek and Hebrew Terms:
Sympathy and Compassion:

Hebrews 5:2 implies that the high priest must be compassionate because he is "compassed with infirmity" (ἀσθένεια). Jesus, as the High Priest, fulfills this role perfectly because He took on human nature, experiencing the full range of human weakness, including suffering, temptation, and death. This enables Him to empathize with human struggles.

The verb συμπαθέω (sympatheō) in Hebrews 2:17-18 means that Jesus has deep empathy for humanity. He "suffers with" His people, not only because He experienced suffering but also because His divine nature enables Him to perfectly understand and minister to those who are afflicted.

Temptation and Testing:

Hebrews 4:15 emphasizes that Jesus was πειρασμός (peirasmos) tested and tempted, yet without sin.

The testing Jesus endured was not just a passive experience of human weakness; it was a real trial in which He could have fallen to temptation but chose to remain sinless.

This is critical to His priestly role because only someone who is sinless can offer the perfect sacrifice for sins.

In the Old Testament, the priests' role was to offer sacrifices for their own sins and the sins of the people (Leviticus 16:6).

Jesus, however, had no need for such sacrifices, as He Himself was without sin, yet He still underwent the human experience of temptation to fully identify with humanity.

Jesus' Human Limitations and Divine Sympathy:

The ἀσθένεια (astheneia) of Jesus shows His participation in the full range of human frailty. He was fully human, with physical needs and weaknesses, but His divine nature enabled Him to remain sinless. This divine sympathy makes Him the perfect mediator between God and man.

The Old Testament priests' weaknesses were reminders of their need for atonement; in contrast, Jesus’ sympathy is rooted in His sinlessness and His voluntary identification with human weakness for the sake of redemption.

In examining the original Greek and Hebrew terms used in Hebrews 5:2, Hebrews 4:15, and Hebrews 2:17-18, we see that the "infirmity" Jesus shared with humanity is not merely physical frailty but the entire spectrum of human suffering, weakness, and temptation. His participation in this condition is essential for His role as the perfect High Priest who can empathize with us and intercede on our behalf.

The words ἀσθένεια (astheneia) and συμπαθέω (sympatheō) highlight that Jesus’ empathy is rooted in His own experience of human limitations, though without sin. Thus, Jesus as the High Priest is uniquely qualified to make atonement for humanity because He shares in our suffering but is perfectly sinless and capable of bringing us into reconciliation with God.

We could delve deeper into the grammar, but that's not really your strength.

J.

As we both know you do not consider Jesus as he walked on this earth a human being or person. This would not suit/sit well with your pagan dogma as we cannot have 3 divines and 1 human spirit (4 natures) in the wheelhouse of your god now can we?

And you speak of the Son of God as practicing and appearing as human and dotting all the Is and crossing all the Ts. How consideration and also very ignorance of you.

He was a human being and his human frailties and his sufferings and sorrows were natural human traits, as for any son of man. And to impersonally disregard this as a fact and only regard his frailly and suffering and sorrows as IDEAS and IDENTIFICATIONS as showing so-called human traits (humanity) of some type of non-authentic attributes, as an unnatural human being, is atrocious and cold. That Christ had to show compassion and and sympathy as a typical Levi priest as if it was part of HIS DUTY and assumed it as a ROLE of his Humanity is astonishing and stunning, You believe in a false Christ not found in scripture. Your dogma has got you by the ....throat ......and you cannot recognize it yet.. It has overtaken your senses of reasoning and spiritual discernment.....

You said, by copying and pasting of course....
' Jesus’ sympathy is rooted in His sinlessness and His voluntary identification with human weakness for the sake of redemption.'
So Jesus then was not really sympathetic as a typical human trait of his, and not because he was truly a son of man, loved his God, his Father, and loved his people. No, you say, he had to volunteer and IDENTIFY with mere men I guess to what, fit in....and play the role!!

And you suggest that Jesus had to volunteer TO IDENTIFY with human weakness, because you infer he has no human weakness(es). A lot of cow dug here.

And Christ was only sympathetic because he was sinless, and divine as your dogma dictates to you. You are actually stripping Christ of his real humanity, and you cannot see it, as you think you are unveiling it, and folks will not react to your distorted and artificial view....

You entire post lacks any compassion and understanding of Jesus the Christ, entirely.

 

[Lizbeth]

@Johann

17 For this reason he had to be made like them, fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people.

Your Jesus cannot be a High Priest Johann,

Not sure if you know this but you would still be in your sins if Christ wasn't born into Sin's Flesh.

You have no atonement with your god-man!

F2F

As I just showed, Jesus was not fully human in EVERY way. That is a biased paraphrased rendering you are using there - words of men, not God. "A body thou hast created for me"....Jesus came to earth in a physical body, but His spirit within Him, within His body was........Divine. Unlike the human spirit of fallen man.

 

[face2face]

As I just showed, Jesus was not fully human in EVERY way.

For this reason he had to be made like them, fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people. Heb 2:17

Your demeanor has changed, Lizbeth. I'm not sure what has happened, but I remember a time when you had these matters figured out! Who has persuaded you otherwise?

F2F

 

[Lizbeth]

So Christ was a man in Heaven Lizbeth?
What type of man was he? His nature?
Do share...do you have a verse that teaches us about this Heavenly Man?
F2F

When Christ is in heaven He is in the form of God. Before He came to earth as a baby He was in the form of God. After His resurrection just before ascending back to heaven, He prayed the Father to give Him back the glory that He had with the Father before the world began. In other words, that He would be in the form of God again. Jesus was no ordinary human like us. I better give you the exact quotes because I don't know if these are even in the bible version you use, or if they are, they might be a misleading paraphrase:

Phl 2:5-11

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.



Jhn 17:1-8

These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.

For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

 

[Lizbeth]

For this reason he had to be made like them, fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people. Heb 2:17

Your demeanor has changed, Lizbeth. I'm not sure what has happened, but I remember a time when you had these matters figured out! Who has persuaded you otherwise?

F2F

You might be confusing me with someone else.... I've never thought otherwise. I don't recall having any interactions with you until recently..

 

[Hepzibah]

@Johann

Rob Bowman claimed Jesus was capable of temptation, yet incapable of sin.

Do you hold this belief?...like @ProDeo

If so, I'd like to hear your Biblical explanation.

Capable of temptation
Incapable of sin

I expect this to end in a similar way to explaining Hypostasis.

F2F

The temptation of Jesus was to act from His own strength when His mission was to do the will of the Father who sent Him. He could not sin and that is not sin.

It is the same for those who walk as He walked - they must resist the temptation too, and see all through the eyes of the Spirit.

 

[Johann]

As we both know you do not consider Jesus as he walked on this earth a human being or person. This would not suit/sit well with your pagan dogma as we cannot have 3 divines and 1 human spirit (4 natures) in the wheelhouse of your god now can we?

And you speak of the Son of God as practicing and appearing as human and dotting all the Is and crossing all the Ts. How consideration and also very ignorance of you.

He was a human being and his human frailties and his sufferings and sorrows were natural human traits, as for any son of man. And to impersonally disregard this as a fact and only regard his frailly and suffering and sorrows as IDEAS and IDENTIFICATIONS as showing so-called human traits (humanity) of some type of non-authentic attributes, as an unnatural human being, is atrocious and cold. That Christ had to show compassion and and sympathy as a typical Levi priest as if it was part of HIS DUTY and assumed it as a ROLE of his Humanity is astonishing and stunning, You believe in a false Christ not found in scripture. Your dogma has got you by the ....throat ......and you cannot recognize it yet.. It has overtaken your senses of reasoning and spiritual discernment.....

You said, by copying and pasting of course....
' Jesus’ sympathy is rooted in His sinlessness and His voluntary identification with human weakness for the sake of redemption.'
So Jesus then was not really sympathetic as a typical human trait of his, and not because he was truly a son of man, loved his God, his Father, and loved his people. No, you say, he had to volunteer and IDENTIFY with mere men I guess to what, fit in....and play the role!!

And you suggest that Jesus had to volunteer TO IDENTIFY with human weakness, because you infer he has no human weakness(es). A lot of cow dug here.

And Christ was only sympathetic because he was sinless, and divine as your dogma dictates to you. You are actually stripping Christ of his real humanity, and you cannot see it, as you think you are unveiling it, and folks will not react to your distorted and artificial view....

You entire post lacks any compassion and understanding of Jesus the Christ, entirely.

You are not here for a cordial and civil discussion; instead, your approach is highly aggressive.

J.

 

[Johann]

No, he's not, in post #549 @face2face acknowledges a plurality within unity in Scripture, which is the doctrine of the Holy Trinity, but doesn't presently attribute that plurality within unity to them. The Holy Spirit has led him this far in understanding, and He should be praised for that. Through you and other trinitarians He can help him come closer to the truth. Focus on his acknowledgment of a plurality within unity in Scripture in your discussion with him.

I am not here to spend days on end engaging with three highly aggressive individuals.

J.

 

[Johann]

"Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own eyes"
Prov 26:5

Jesus is Jehovah/Yahweh (the Lord)

1. Rom. 10:9-13: Note the repeated “for” (gar), which links these verses closely together. The “Lord” of 10:13 (where kurios, “Lord,” translates the HebrewYahweh) must be the “Lord” of 10:9, 12.

2. Phil. 2:9-11. In context, the “name that is above every name” is “Lord” (vs. 11), i.e., Jehovah.

3. Heb. 1:10: Here God the Father addresses the Son as “Lord,” in a quotation from Ps. 102:25 (cf. 102:24, where the person addressed is called “God”). Since here the Father addresses the Son as “Lord,” this cannot be explained away as a text in which a creature addresses Christ as God/Lord in a merely representational sense.

4. 1 Pet. 2:3-4: This verse is nearly an exact quotation of Ps. 34:8a, where “Lord” is Jehovah. From 1 Pet. 2:4-8 it is also clear that “the Lord” in v. 3 is Jesus.

5. 1 Pet. 3:13-15: these verses are a clear reference to Is. 8:12-13, where the one who is to be regarded as holy is Jehovah.

6. Texts where Jesus is spoken of as the “one Lord” (cf. Deut. 6:4; Mark 12:29): 1 Cor. 8:6; Eph. 4:5; cf. Rom. 10:12; 1 Cor. 12:5.

7. Many other texts that call Jesus “Lord” do so in ways that equate him with Yahweh: Matt. 3:3, Mark 1:3, and Luke 3:4 (cf. Is. 40:3); Matt. 7:21-22 and Luke 6:46; Matt. 8:25 and 14:30 (cf. Ps. 118:25); Acts 1:24 (addressing the Lord Jesus [cf. v. 21] in prayer and attributing to him divine knowledge); 2:21 (cf. Joel 2:32), 36; 7:59-60; 8:25; 1 Cor. 1:2 (calling on the Lord), 8 (the day of the Lord) [etc.], 31 (cf. Jer. 9:23-24); 2:16 (cf. Is. 40:13); 4:4-5; 5:4 (gathering in the name of the Lord); 6:11; 7:17, 32-35 (devotion to the Lord); 10:21-22; etc.

C. Jesus has many other names or titles of God

1. Titles belonging only to God

a. The First and the Last (Beginning and End, Alpha and Omega): Rev. 1:7-8, 17b-18; 2:8; 22:13; cf. Is. 41:4; 44:6; 48:12; Rev. 21:6

b. King of kings and Lord of lords: Rev. 17:14; 19:16; cf. Dan. 4:37; 1 Tim. 6:15

2. Titles belonging in the ultimate sense only to God

a. Savior: Luke 2:11; John 4:42; Phil. 3:20; 2 Tim. 1:10; Titus 2:13, cf. v. 10; 2 Pet. 1:11; 2:20; 3:2, 18; 1 John 4:14; cf. Is. 43:11; 45:21-22; 1 Tim. 4:10; on Jesus becoming the source of salvation; Heb. 5:9, cf. Ex. 15:2; Ps. 118:14, 21

b. Shepherd: John 10:11; Heb. 13:20; cf. Ps. 23:1; Is. 40:11

c. Bridegroom/Husband: Matt. 22:2; 25:1-13; Mark 2:19; John 3:29; 2 Cor. 11:2; Eph. 5:25-27; Rev. 19:7-9; 21:2, 9; cf. Is. 54:5; 62:5; Jer. 31:32

d. Rock: 1 Cor. 10:4; cf. Is. 44:8

3. Jesus’ self-declarations—his “I am” sayings

a. Jesus’ “I am” (egô eimi) sayings with a predicate declare his divine functions: “I am the bread of life” (John 6:35, 48; cf. 6:41, 51), “I am the light of the world” (John 8:12), “I am the gate” of the sheep (John 10:7, 9), “I am the good shepherd” (10:11, 14), “I am the resurrection and the life” (John 11:25), “I am the way and the truth and the life” (John 14:6), “I am the [true] vine” (John 15:1, 5). In these sayings Jesus essentially claims to be everything his people need for eternal life.

b. Jesus’ “I am” (egô eimi) sayings without a predicate declare his divine identity as the divine Son come to be the Messiah: “I am [he]; do not fear” (Matt. 14:27; Mark 6:50; John 6:20; cf. Is. 43:2, 5); “I am [he]” (Mark 14:62); “I am [he], the one speaking to you” (John 4:26, cf. Is. 52:6); “unless you believe that I am [he] you will die in your sins…then you will know that I am [he]” (John 8:24, 28, cf. Is. 43:10-11); “before Abraham came into being, I am” or “I am [he]” (John 8:58, note v. 59); “I know the ones I have chosen…you will believe that I am [he]” (John 13:18-19, cf. Is. 43:10); “I am [he]” (John 18:5, cf. vv. 6-8). Note the many parallels to the “I am” sayings of God in Isaiah, which virtually all biblical scholars agree are echoed by Jesus’ “I am” sayings in John. Some scholars also see at least an indirect connection to God’s declaration “I am who I am” in Ex. 3:14 (especially for John 8:58).

4. The NT gives an extraordinary emphasis on Jesus’ “name,” stating that it is the highest of all names, Eph. 1:21; Phil. 2:9-11; referring to it as “the Name,” Acts 5:41; 3 John 7; glorifying his name, Acts 19:13-18, cf. Ps. 20:7. Christians call on his name for salvation; they get baptized and receive forgiveness of sins and eternal life in his name; they cast out demons in his name; they suffer and risk their lives for his name; they do everything in his name: Matt. 7:22; 10:22; 19:29; 24:9; Mark 9:38-39; 13:13; Luke 10:17; 21:12, 17; John 1:12; 15:21; 20:31; Acts 2:21, 36, 38; 3:6, 16; 4:7, 10, 12, 17-18; 30; 5:28; 8:16; 9:14, 21, 27-28; 10:43, 48; 15:26; 16:18; 19: 5; 21:13; 22:16; Rom. 10:12-13; 1 Cor. 1:13-15; 6:11; Col. 3:17; 1 Pet. 4:14; 1 John 2:12; 1 John 3:23; 5:13; Rev. 2:3, 13; 3:8.

The Biblical Basis of the Doctrine of the Trinity, Part IV: The Son, Jesus Christ, Is God

Part IV of an outline study of the doctrine of the Trinity; this part shows that the Bible identifies Jesus Christ as God and that it attributes to him the works, attributes, and honors characteristic of God.

bib.irr.org

Refute or accept.

J.

 

[Wrangler]

Jesus didn't have divine nature J...we have been over this so many times.

Jesus was like you in "every respect!"

F2F

It’s sad that trinitarians repeat the lie no matter how many times it is refuted. They just do laps on ground already covered.

Supposing Jesus was divine undermines the entire point of his ministry and significance of his resurrection. There is no theological significance to an all powerful god appearing to die then come back to life.

For a regular mere man to be resurrected by God as proof of our inheritance has all the theological significance in the world. If Jesus is not that man, then he is not the first fruit and we still wait for such proof as a regular guy, a mere man to be resurrected into a glorified body.

 

[Wrangler]

It's not Paul's "every respect" or is it in the likeness of sin's flesh BUT its a word which allows Johann's Christ to be distant enough from it sufficient for him to identify. Not fully man as Paul taught!

The passionate devotion to manmade doctrine - over the plain, simple, explicit teachings of Scripture - is something to behold. I don’t need God’s word, I got my own ideas and invention of word meanings.

 

[Scott Downey]

When Christ is in heaven He is in the form of God. Before He came to earth as a baby He was in the form of God. After His resurrection just before ascending back to heaven, He prayed the Father to give Him back the glory that He had with the Father before the world began. In other words, that He would be in the form of God again. Jesus was no ordinary human like us. I better give you the exact quotes because I don't know if these are even in the bible version you use, or if they are, they might be a misleading paraphrase:

Phl 2:5-11

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.



Jhn 17:1-8

These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.

For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

Even in His fleshly body, Christ said this about Himself

John 14
7 “If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.”

8 Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.”

9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. 11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.

 

[Scott Downey]

Christ tells this to both His disciples, and the unbelieving jews

John 10

Renewed Efforts to Stone Jesus​

31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?”

33 The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”

34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods” ’? 35 If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), 36 do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?

37 If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; 38 but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and [f]believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him.” 39 Therefore they sought again to seize Him, but He escaped out of their hand.

It is not just the Father in a man, like an indwelling power of God doing the works. Jesus also says HE is in the Father!

 

[APAK]

You are not here for a cordial and civil discussion; instead, your approach is highly aggressive.

J.

Stop your whining. Get your big boy pants on or go to your room.

Cordial aye, with a type of person who continually denies the LORD, and his rightful title, who is the LORD/Lord of ALL creation. As you deliberately without any shame, compound and confuse and mix where scripture points only to the the LORD/Lord of ALL, and call it the Son who was ONLY made lord by God for GENUINE BELIEVERS only!

And you still deny you are doing this.....?

 

[CadyandZoe]

When Christ is in heaven He is in the form of God. Before He came to earth as a baby He was in the form of God. After His resurrection just before ascending back to heaven, He prayed the Father to give Him back the glory that He had with the Father before the world began. In other words, that He would be in the form of God again. Jesus was no ordinary human like us. I better give you the exact quotes because I don't know if these are even in the bible version you use, or if they are, they might be a misleading paraphrase:

Phl 2:5-11

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.



Jhn 17:1-8

These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.

For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

Bear in mind that Paul is talking about the man Jesus, when he says he appeared in the form of God.

 

[Johann]

Stop your whining. Get your big boy pants on or go to your room.

Cordial aye, with a type of person who continually denies the LORD, and his rightful title, who is the LORD/Lord of ALL creation. As you deliberately without any shame, compound and confuse and mix where scripture points only to the the LORD/Lord of ALL, and call it the Son who was ONLY made lord by God for GENUINE BELIEVERS only!

And you still deny you are doing this.....?

Cheers bro-you won't be missed.

J.

 

[Johann]

Bear in mind that Paul is talking about the man Jesus, when he says he appeared in the form of God.

I don't think anyone here is denying the Man Christ Jesus-right? God manifest in the flesh-right?

J.

 

[David in NJ]

And later in that Psalm we have a Man of God called the Son of Man who trusted in his God to raise him from the Grave.

"For You will not abandon my soul (life / existence) to Sheol (grave), nor will You allow Your Holy One to undergo decay,"

The issue here for many is if Christ remained in the tomb his body would have broken down to dust as he was a man like you and I.

The reason God couldnt leave him in the grave was due to his sinless life so death (its dominion) called not hold him. God had removed sins power in the life and death of His Son.

So your quote is rather ironic as you have shown us how Jesus put his trust in His God and He redeemed Jesus from the grave.

Hebrews calls it the "eternal redemption" which Christ obtained through his own sacrifice.

he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption. Heb 9:12

F2F

eye C that Psalm 62:1-2 is beyond your comprehension.

The Word became flesh and dwelt among us........Immanuel = Elohim with us