Exploring Trinitarian Logic

[Pierac]

1 John 5:20

GNV
But we know that that Son of God is come, and hath given us a mind to know him, which is true, and we are in him that is true, that is, in that his Son Jesus Christ, the same is that very God, and that eternal life.

GW
We know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding so that we know the real God. We are in the one who is real, his Son Jesus Christ. This Jesus Christ is the real God and eternal life.
GNT
We know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we know the true God. We live in union with the true God—in union with his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and this is eternal life.
HCSB
And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding so that we may know the true One. We are in the true One—that is, in His Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

KJV
And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

EASY
We also know that the Son of God has come into the world. He has helped us to understand what is true. As a result, we know the only true God. We live together with this true God, because we belong to his Son, Jesus Christ. He is the true God. He is the one who gives us life with God for ever.
EHV
We know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true, in his Son, Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.
ESV
And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.
ESVUK
And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.
EXB
We also know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding so that we can know the True One. And ·our lives [L we] are in the True One and in his Son, Jesus Christ. He is the true God and the eternal life.

NIRV
We also know that the Son of God has come. He has given us understanding. So we can know the God who is true. And we belong to the true God by belonging to his Son, Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.
NIV
We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.
NIVUK
We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

WYC
And we know, that the Son of God came in flesh, and gave to us wit, that we know him very God, and be in the very Son [Jesus] of him [and be in the very Son Jesus of him]. This is very God, and everlasting life.
YLT
and we have known that the Son of God is come, and hath given us a mind, that we may know Him who is true, and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ; this one is the true God and the life age-during!

On and on

Listen to Jesus...

Joh 7:28 Then Jesus cried out in the temple, teaching and saying, "You both know Me and know where I am from; and I have not come of Myself, but He (God) who sent Me (Jesus) is true, whom you do not know. 29 "I know Him, because I am from Him, and He (My God) sent Me."

(John 8:40) "But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do.

The apostles call him "a man" (Acts 2: 22; 1 Tim. 2:5). Act 2:22 "Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know--

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

He is constantly contrasted with and distinguished from his God and Father.

Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. (see Acts 2:22)

"Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ" (2 Cor.5:18).

"God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ… has blessed us… in Christ. He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to himself” (Eph.1:3-5).

"For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Thess.5:9).

"God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus” (Rom. 2:16).

"For God… has saved us, and called us... according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity" (2 Tim 1:9).

"Blessed be God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has caused us to be born-again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead" (1 Peter 1:3).

"To the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen" (Jude 25).

"Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which god performed through him in your midst" (Acts 2:22).

Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Paul tell us in 1Co 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through (dia) whom we exist.


Always God the Father is the source and origin of all works, deeds and salvation which come to us through the mediatorship of his son. From Him comes all to us through our Lord Jesus Christ so that to God the Father made all the praise be directed. The Father is the sole origin and Creator of "all things." In contrast, Jesus is the Father's commissioned Lord Messiah through whom God's plan for the world is coming to completion. The whole Bible from cover to cover categorically states that God created the universe and all the ages with Jesus Christ at the center of his eternal purpose. Jesus is the diameter running all the way through.

Now you know the truth... Scott

 

[Bladerunner]

There is no mention of the true Nephilim after the flood since all air breathing life perished.

Any mention of them after the flood was in relation to a race of very tall people called the sons of Anak....or the Anakim. (Deut 9:1-2)

they were giants....which came from the wives of the sons of Noah...Rem, Noah's family was perfect but the dna of the wives (at least two of them) were not.

 

[Scott Downey]

1 Corinthians 8:6 tells us Christ Created all things
Christ is the Creator God.
As is God the Father.
They are both God.
Someone who says Christ has no pre-existence as the Creator has lied to you. For by Christ were all things created, all things were created for Him and in Christ all things consist, as does say also Colossians 1. If Christ was not in the Father, and the Father in Christ, then nothing would exist.

12 [k]Giving thanks unto the [l]Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the Saints in [m]light,

13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son,

14 [n]In whom we have redemption through his blood, that is, the forgiveness of sins.

15 [o]Who is the image of the invisible God, [p]the first begotten of every creature.

16 For by him were all things created which are in heaven, and which are in earth, things visible and invisible: whether they be [q]Thrones, or Dominions, or Principalities, or Powers, all things were created by him, and for him.

17 And he is before all things, and in him all things consist.

****************************************************************
KJ21
yet to us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we in Him, and one Lord Jesus Christ by whom are all things, and we by Him.
ASV
yet to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we unto him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we through him.
AMP
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, who is the source of all things, and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things [that have been created], and we [believers exist and have life and have been redeemed] through Him.
AMPC
Yet for us there is [only] one God, the Father, Who is the Source of all things and for Whom we [have life], and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through and by Whom are all things and through and by Whom we [ourselves exist].
BRG
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
CSB
yet for us there is one God, the Father. All things are from him, and we exist for him. And there is one Lord, Jesus Christ. All things are through him, and we exist through him.
CEB
However, for us believers, There is one God the Father. All things come from him, and we belong to him. And there is one Lord Jesus Christ. All things exist through him, and we live through him.
CJB
yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom all things come and for whom we exist; and one Lord, Yeshua the Messiah, through whom were created all things and through whom we have our being.
CEV
We have only one God, and he is the Father. He created everything, and we live for him. Jesus Christ is our only Lord. Everything was made by him, and by him life was given to us.
DARBY
yet to us [there is] one God, the Father, of whom all things, and *we* for him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and *we* by him.
DLNT
yet for us there is One God the Father, from Whom are all things, and we are for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through Whom are all things, and we are through Him.
DRA
Yet to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we unto him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
ERV
For us there is only one God, and he is our Father. All things came from him, and we live for him. And there is only one Lord, Jesus Christ. All things were made through him, and we also have life through him.
EASY
But for us there is only one God, who is the Father. All things come from him. We live to serve him. For us, there is only one Lord, who is Jesus Christ. All things are there because of him. And we ourselves live because of him.
EHV
nevertheless for us there is one God—the Father, from whom all things exist and we exist for him—and one Lord—Jesus Christ, through whom all things exist and we exist through him.

 

[Aunty Jane]

they were giants....which came from the wives of the sons of Noah...Rem, Noah's family was perfect but the dna of the wives (at least two of them) were not.

Can you provide some evidence for this? All we have is the Bible’s account, and this scenario is entirely missing from Scripture. The sons of Anak were a very tall race of people who seemed like giants to the people of Israel. Remember Goliath and his brother, were exceedingly tall probably suffering from gigantism. Even today we have the Maasai in Africa who are a very tall race of people.

Noah and his wife were the offspring of Adam...not perfect at all in their DNA. It was not the time for Messiah’s arrival and the demon angels had brought the human race to such abhorrent wickedness too soon, so that God had to intervene and produce a stop gap to reset the human race.....there was no redemption in the flood, and humans lived who had no right to, introducing a level,of wickedness that would be seen only upon Christ’s return. (Matt 24:37-39).....

God cleansed the earth and started afresh, eliminating the Nephilim and sending their errant father’s back to the spirit realm, where he dealt with them, putting them under restraint so that they could never materialised again.
Faithful angel’s continued to bring messages to God’s earthly servants, but the rebel angels caused trouble from the invisible realm, as we see in the accounts of those who were demon possessed in Bible times.
And even today there are people who have trouble with evil spirits.....

 

[face2face]

1 Corinthians 8:6 tells us Christ Created all things
Christ is the Creator God.
As is God the Father.
They are both God.
Someone who says Christ has no pre-existence as the Creator has lied to you. For by Christ were all things created, all things were created for Him and in Christ all things consist, as does say also Colossians 1. If Christ was not in the Father, and the Father in Christ, then nothing would exist.

There is a strong delusion in this forum where believers have convinced themselves that Jesus, the Son of Man, is merely Father God in disguise.

There have always been, and will continue to be, "false prophets" (2 Peter 1:19-20, 2:1; Matthew 24:4-5, 11, 24).

This has always been prevalent in mainstream religion. Judaism was filled with false teachers during the time of Christ, and today, Christianity has endured 2,000 years of doctrinal development, to the point where the original Gospel is nearly lost to the world.

When Christ asked, "Will I find faith on the earth?" at his return, he was speaking about mature faith, it will be seen that the true Gospel of God as delivered by the Apostles will be scarely seen.

Here is the correct quote Scott

8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we live, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we live. 1 Co 8:5–6.

All things come from the Father including Christ!

"Through" is the key word here (as shown to you by Pierac) – God reconciled the world "through" Christ, and therefore all things now exist because of the work of God through Christ Jesus our Lord.

Perhaps you're having difficulty discerning between the Blue and Green text?

The Greek is also interesting, Scott – it says, "through whom [are] all things and we [are] through him."

Think of it this way – without the life of Christ, this creation and this era of time could not exist. Such is the significance of the spiritual creation in and through Him.

Do you want to know the Irony in your quote Scott?

The context

8:4 With regard then to eating food sacrificed to idols, we know that “an idol in this world is nothing,” and that “there is no God but one.” 1 Co 8:4.

You used idolatrous doctrines to attempt explaining a very simple passage of Scripture, which clearly reveals that the One God of the Old Testament is still the One God of the New Testament.

Your problem is that you do not understand the true Christ.

If God has made Christ the way, truth and life "No one comes to the Father except through me”

It's important to know who God is and the true Christ.

F2F

 

[Johann]

There is a strong delusion in this forum where believers have convinced themselves that Jesus, the Son of Man, is merely Father God in disguise.

That's not what @Scott Downey said; you have a way of misrepresenting members' words to suit your narrative.

J.

 

[face2face]

That's not what @Scott Downey said; you have a way of misrepresenting members' words to suit your narrative.

J.

Not so J..it is you who is twisting the truth.

Scott said "Christ is the Creator God."

F2F

 

[Johann]

Not so J..it is you who is twisting the truth.

Scott said "Christ is the Creator God."

F2F

Scriptures Affirming Christ as the Creator: AND as God!

John 1:1-3
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by Him, and without Him was not anything made that was made."
This passage identifies the Word (Logos) as both God and the agent of creation.

Colossians 1:16-17
"For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him, and for Him. And He is before all things, and by Him all things consist."
Christ is portrayed as the Creator of all realms and the sustainer of creation.

Hebrews 1:2
"Hath in these last days spoken unto us by His Son, whom He hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also He made the worlds."
God created the worlds through His Son, confirming Christ's role in creation.

Hebrews 1:10
"And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of Thine hands."
This verse applies to Christ the words of Psalm 102:25-27, affirming His divine work as Creator.

Scriptures Affirming Christ as God:
John 1:1
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
The divinity of Christ is declared explicitly here.

John 20:28
"And Thomas answered and said unto Him, My Lord and my God."
Thomas confesses Christ's divinity after His resurrection.

Titus 2:13
"Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ."
Christ is called the "great God" in this verse.

Hebrews 1:8
"But unto the Son He saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of Thy kingdom."
God the Father addresses the Son as God.

Philippians 2:6
"Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God."
Christ's equality with God is affirmed here.

Isaiah 9:6
"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon His shoulder: and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

The Messiah is called "The mighty God."

J.

 

[face2face]

Scriptures Affirming Christ as the Creator: AND as God!

John 1:1-3
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by Him, and without Him was not anything made that was made."
This passage identifies the Word (Logos) as both God and the agent of creation.

Colossians 1:16-17
"For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him, and for Him. And He is before all things, and by Him all things consist."
Christ is portrayed as the Creator of all realms and the sustainer of creation.

Hebrews 1:2
"Hath in these last days spoken unto us by His Son, whom He hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also He made the worlds."
God created the worlds through His Son, confirming Christ's role in creation.

Hebrews 1:10
"And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of Thine hands."
This verse applies to Christ the words of Psalm 102:25-27, affirming His divine work as Creator.

Scriptures Affirming Christ as God:
John 1:1
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
The divinity of Christ is declared explicitly here.

John 20:28
"And Thomas answered and said unto Him, My Lord and my God."
Thomas confesses Christ's divinity after His resurrection.

Titus 2:13
"Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ."
Christ is called the "great God" in this verse.

Hebrews 1:8
"But unto the Son He saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of Thy kingdom."
God the Father addresses the Son as God.

Philippians 2:6
"Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God."
Christ's equality with God is affirmed here.

Isaiah 9:6
"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon His shoulder: and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

The Messiah is called "The mighty God."

J.

Not a single one of those quotes shows Christ literally performing the creative works, and we both know you can't provide any.

Do you know what's really disturbing about your reply? You actually believe all those quotes can be daisy chained together to prove your false understanding of Christ.

Each of those quotes has its own context and meaning, but you're not interested in grasping their true significance; you just want to load your shotgun with buckshot and fire away.

So undisciplined are you with the Word of God for a man of your vintage you are without excuse!

F2F

 

[Johann]

Not a single one of those quotes shows Christ literally performing the creative works, and we both know you can't provide any.

Amazing!


Greek Text:
Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ Λόγος, καὶ ὁ Λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν Θεόν, καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος.
οὗτος ἦν ἐν ἀρχῇ πρὸς τὸν Θεόν.
πάντα δι’ αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο, καὶ χωρὶς αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο οὐδὲ ἕν ὃ γέγονεν.

Key Verbs and Syntax:

ἦν (was) – Imperfect indicative active of εἰμί, showing the eternal preexistence of the Logos ("was" continuous action in the past).
ἐγένετο (were made) – Aorist indicative middle of γίνομαι, meaning "came into being" or "were created." The aorist tense marks this as a completed action.
δι’ αὐτοῦ (through Him) – The preposition διά with the genitive indicates agency, affirming that Jesus (the Logos) was the active agent in creation.

Colossians 1:16-17
Greek Text:
ὅτι ἐν αὐτῷ ἐκτίσθη τὰ πάντα, τὰ ἐν τοῖς οὐρανοῖς καὶ τὰ ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς, τὰ ὁρατὰ καὶ τὰ ἀόρατα, εἴτε θρόνοι εἴτε κυριότητες εἴτε ἀρχαὶ εἴτε ἐξουσίαι· τὰ πάντα δι’ αὐτοῦ καὶ εἰς αὐτὸν ἔκτισται·
καὶ αὐτὸς ἐστὶν πρὸ πάντων, καὶ τὰ πάντα ἐν αὐτῷ συνέστηκεν.

Key Verbs and Syntax:

ἐκτίσθη (were created) – Aorist indicative passive of κτίζω, indicating that all things were created "in" or "by" Him (ἐν αὐτῷ).

The passive voice shows the creative action originating from the Father but executed through the Son.

δι’ αὐτοῦ (through Him) – The preposition διά with the genitive again highlights Christ as the means or agent of creation.

ἔκτισται (have been created) – Perfect indicative passive of κτίζω, signifying a completed action with continuing results; all creation remains dependent on Him.

συνέστηκεν (consist) – Perfect indicative active of συνίστημι, meaning "hold together" or "stand together," showing Christ’s sustaining power over all creation.

Hebrews 1:2
Greek Text:
ἐπ’ ἐσχάτου τῶν ἡμερῶν τούτων ἐλάλησεν ἡμῖν ἐν Υἱῷ, ὃν ἔθηκεν κληρονόμον πάντων, δι’ οὗ καὶ ἐποίησεν τοὺς αἰῶνας·

Key Verbs and Syntax:

ἐποίησεν (He made) – Aorist indicative active of ποιέω, directly attributing the act of making (creating) the worlds (τοὺς αἰῶνας) to God through the Son.

δι’ οὗ (through whom) – As in John 1:3 and Colossians 1:16, the preposition διά with the genitive reinforces the Son’s active role as the agent of creation.

In him were created (en autōi ektisthē). Paul now gives the reason (hoti, for) for the primacy of Christ in the work of creation (Col_1:16f.). It is the constative aorist passive indicative ektisthē (from ktizō, old verb, to found, to create (Rom_1:25).

This central activity of Christ in the work of creation is presented also in Jhn_1:3; Heb_1:2 and is a complete denial of the Gnostic philosophy.

The whole of creative activity is summed up in Christ including the angels in heaven and everything on earth. God wrought through “the Son of his love.” All earthly dignities are included.
Have been created (ektistai). Perfect passive indicative of ktizō, “stand created,” “remain created.” The permanence of the universe rests, then, on Christ far more than on gravity. It is a Christo-centric universe.

Through him (di' autou). As the intermediate and sustaining agent. He had already used en autōi (in him) as the sphere of activity.

Hebrews 1:10 (citing Psalm 102:25)
Greek Text:
καί, Σὺ κατ’ ἀρχὰς, Κύριε, τὴν γῆν ἐθεμελίωσας, καὶ ἔργα τῶν χειρῶν σου εἰσὶν οἱ οὐρανοί·

Key Verbs and Syntax:

ἐθεμελίωσας (You laid the foundation) – Aorist indicative active of θεμελιόω, emphasizing Christ’s foundational work in creation as a completed action.
ἔργα (works) – Nominative plural, describing the heavens as "the works of Your hands," a direct acknowledgment of Jesus’ creative action.

Lord (Kurie). In the lxx, not in the Hebrew. Quotation (the sixth) from Psa_102:26-28 through Heb_1:10-12. Note emphatic position of su here at the beginning as in Heb_1:11-12 (su de). This Messianic Psalm pictures the Son in his Creative work and in his final triumph.
Hast laid the foundation (ethemeliōsas). First aorist active of themelioō, old verb from themelios (foundation) for which see Col_1:23.


1 Corinthians 8:6
Greek Text:
ἀλλ’ ἡμῖν εἷς Θεὸς ὁ Πατήρ, ἐξ οὗ τὰ πάντα καὶ ἡμεῖς εἰς αὐτόν· καὶ εἷς Κύριος Ἰησοῦς Χριστός, δι’ οὗ τὰ πάντα, καὶ ἡμεῖς δι’ αὐτοῦ.

Key Verbs and Syntax:

δι’ οὗ τὰ πάντα (through whom are all things) – Again, διά with the genitive specifies Christ as the agent of creation.
τὰ πάντα (all things) – Neuter plural, signifying the totality of creation brought into being through Christ.

Through him (di' autou). En autōi (in him) For Him---Gospel 101 basics-so simple a child can understand this!

J.

 

[face2face]

Amazing!

Not really Johann, I've come to see through your approach to interpreting Scripture.

Greek Text:
Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ Λόγος, καὶ ὁ Λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν Θεόν, καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος.
οὗτος ἦν ἐν ἀρχῇ πρὸς τὸν Θεόν.
πάντα δι’ αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο, καὶ χωρὶς αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο οὐδὲ ἕν ὃ γέγονεν.

Someone taught you to do this as a way of inflating your ego. You are not a Greek scholar, but perhaps you dream of being one when you head hits the pillow at night?

Key Verbs and Syntax:

ἦν (was) – Imperfect indicative active of εἰμί, showing the eternal preexistence of the Logos ("was" continuous action in the past).
ἐγένετο (were made) – Aorist indicative middle of γίνομαι, meaning "came into being" or "were created." The aorist tense marks this as a completed action.
δι’ αὐτοῦ (through Him) – The preposition διά with the genitive indicates agency, affirming that Jesus (the Logos) was the active agent in creation.

Colossians 1:16-17
Greek Text:
ὅτι ἐν αὐτῷ ἐκτίσθη τὰ πάντα, τὰ ἐν τοῖς οὐρανοῖς καὶ τὰ ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς, τὰ ὁρατὰ καὶ τὰ ἀόρατα, εἴτε θρόνοι εἴτε κυριότητες εἴτε ἀρχαὶ εἴτε ἐξουσίαι· τὰ πάντα δι’ αὐτοῦ καὶ εἰς αὐτὸν ἔκτισται·
καὶ αὐτὸς ἐστὶν πρὸ πάντων, καὶ τὰ πάντα ἐν αὐτῷ συνέστηκεν.

Key Verbs and Syntax:

You actually believe Verbs and Syntax is the means by which the Children of God come to a knowledge of truth.

ἐκτίσθη (were created) – Aorist indicative passive of κτίζω, indicating that all things were created "in" or "by" Him (ἐν αὐτῷ).

The passive voice shows the creative action originating from the Father but executed through the Son.

δι’ αὐτοῦ (through Him) – The preposition διά with the genitive again highlights Christ as the means or agent of creation.

ἔκτισται (have been created) – Perfect indicative passive of κτίζω, signifying a completed action with continuing results; all creation remains dependent on Him.

συνέστηκεν (consist) – Perfect indicative active of συνίστημι, meaning "hold together" or "stand together," showing Christ’s sustaining power over all creation.

Hebrews 1:2
Greek Text:
ἐπ’ ἐσχάτου τῶν ἡμερῶν τούτων ἐλάλησεν ἡμῖν ἐν Υἱῷ, ὃν ἔθηκεν κληρονόμον πάντων, δι’ οὗ καὶ ἐποίησεν τοὺς αἰῶνας·

Key Verbs and Syntax:

ἐποίησεν (He made) – Aorist indicative active of ποιέω, directly attributing the act of making (creating) the worlds (τοὺς αἰῶνας) to God through the Son.

δι’ οὗ (through whom) – As in John 1:3 and Colossians 1:16, the preposition διά with the genitive reinforces the Son’s active role as the agent of creation.

In him were created (en autōi ektisthē). Paul now gives the reason (hoti, for) for the primacy of Christ in the work of creation (Col_1:16f.). It is the constative aorist passive indicative ektisthē (from ktizō, old verb, to found, to create (Rom_1:25).

This central activity of Christ in the work of creation is presented also in Jhn_1:3; Heb_1:2 and is a complete denial of the Gnostic philosophy.

The whole of creative activity is summed up in Christ including the angels in heaven and everything on earth. God wrought through “the Son of his love.” All earthly dignities are included.
Have been created (ektistai). Perfect passive indicative of ktizō, “stand created,” “remain created.” The permanence of the universe rests, then, on Christ far more than on gravity. It is a Christo-centric universe.

Through him (di' autou). As the intermediate and sustaining agent. He had already used en autōi (in him) as the sphere of activity.

Hebrews 1:10 (citing Psalm 102:25)
Greek Text:
καί, Σὺ κατ’ ἀρχὰς, Κύριε, τὴν γῆν ἐθεμελίωσας, καὶ ἔργα τῶν χειρῶν σου εἰσὶν οἱ οὐρανοί·

Key Verbs and Syntax:

ἐθεμελίωσας (You laid the foundation) – Aorist indicative active of θεμελιόω, emphasizing Christ’s foundational work in creation as a completed action.
ἔργα (works) – Nominative plural, describing the heavens as "the works of Your hands," a direct acknowledgment of Jesus’ creative action.

Lord (Kurie). In the lxx, not in the Hebrew. Quotation (the sixth) from Psa_102:26-28 through Heb_1:10-12. Note emphatic position of su here at the beginning as in Heb_1:11-12 (su de). This Messianic Psalm pictures the Son in his Creative work and in his final triumph.
Hast laid the foundation (ethemeliōsas). First aorist active of themelioō, old verb from themelios (foundation) for which see Col_1:23.


1 Corinthians 8:6
Greek Text:
ἀλλ’ ἡμῖν εἷς Θεὸς ὁ Πατήρ, ἐξ οὗ τὰ πάντα καὶ ἡμεῖς εἰς αὐτόν· καὶ εἷς Κύριος Ἰησοῦς Χριστός, δι’ οὗ τὰ πάντα, καὶ ἡμεῖς δι’ αὐτοῦ.

Key Verbs and Syntax:

δι’ οὗ τὰ πάντα (through whom are all things) – Again, διά with the genitive specifies Christ as the agent of creation.
τὰ πάντα (all things) – Neuter plural, signifying the totality of creation brought into being through Christ.

Through him (di' autou). En autōi (in him) For Him---Gospel 101 basics-so simple a child can understand this!

J.

I'll leave you to your copy and paste faith, your nouns, pronouns, verbs and syntax.

When you gain the skills to interpret the Word without your toys, let me know.

I'll be here ready to serve you warm milk.

F2F

 

[Marvelloustime]

you know what i notice . that people in both camps have in common . THEY in MASS number
are all headed right into the glue of anti christ , the message of interfaith and satans finding common ground .
The judge nots led the church to this as leaven more and more filled them places up . TILL ALL were ready in time
TO BELIEVE THE LIE , the very LIE that interfaith is leading and shall lead them all to BELIEVE.
i shun intefaith doctrine to hell if i could . not the people but the DOCTRINE . i dont heed anti christ or his anti christs and their fake
love message that aint LOVE and IT AINT OF GOD .

@amigo de christo

 

[Marvelloustime]

and interfaith is the glue of anti christ that will lead all the decieved to merge as one.
OH there sure are doctrines of devils all right and the thing about them doctrines is
HE sure can make it sound so good and loving and for the good of humanity , when in truth it leads ONLY TO THE SECOND DEATH .
HE desires death for all . but it sure seems many love a lie . all who love a lie love death .

@amigo de christo

 

[Scott Downey]

No one has ever seen God. The one and only Son, who is himself God and is at the Father’s side—he has revealed him.

John 1:18
KJ21
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared Him.
ASV
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
AMP
No one has seen God [His essence, His divine nature] at any time; the [One and] only begotten God [that is, the unique Son] who is in the intimate presence of the Father, He has explained Him [and interpreted and revealed the awesome wonder of the Father].
AMPC
No man has ever seen God at any time; the only unique Son, or the only begotten God, Who is in the bosom [in the intimate presence] of the Father, He has declared Him [He has revealed Him and brought Him out where He can be seen; He has interpreted Him and He has made Him known].
BRG
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
CSB
No one has ever seen God. The one and only Son, who is himself God and is at the Father’s side—he has revealed him.
CEB
No one has ever seen God. God the only Son, who is at the Father’s side, has made God known.
CJB
No one has ever seen God; but the only and unique Son, who is identical with God and is at the Father’s side — he has made him known.
CEV
No one has ever seen God. The only Son, who is truly God and is closest to the Father, has shown us what God is like.
DARBY
No one has seen God at any time; the only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, *he* hath declared [him].
DLNT
No one has ever seen God; the only-born God, the One being in the bosom of the Father— that One expounded Him.
DRA
No man hath seen God at any time: the only begotten Son who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
ERV
No one has ever seen God. The only Son is the one who has shown us what God is like. He is himself God and is very close to the Father.
EASY
Nobody has ever seen God. But God's only Son has shown God to us. He is very near to the Father, and he himself is God.
EHV
No one has ever seen God. The only-begotten Son, who is close to the Father’s side, has made him known.
ESV
No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father's side, he has made him known.
ESVUK
No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father's side, he has made him known.
EXB
No one has ever seen God [C God the Father, who is pure spirit; 4:24]. But ·God the only Son [God the one and only; the only Son who is himself God; T God the only begotten] is ·very close to [by the side of; close to the heart of; T in the bosom of] the Father, and he has ·shown us what God is like [made him known].

 

[ProDeo]

No one has ever seen God. The one and only Son, who is himself God and is at the Father’s side—he has revealed him.

John 1:18
KJ21
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared Him.

JW bible
No man has seen God at any time;+ the only-begotten god+ who is at the Father’s side*+ is the one who has explained Him.+

Interesting is also 1:14

So the Word became flesh+ and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son+ from a father; and he was full of divine favor* and truth. -- JW bible --

Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. -- real Bible

 

[Scott Downey]

JW bible
No man has seen God at any time;+ the only-begotten god+ who is at the Father’s side*+ is the one who has explained Him.+

Interesting is also 1:14

So the Word became flesh+ and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son+ from a father; and he was full of divine favor* and truth. -- JW bible --

Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. -- real Bible

it does indicate another 'god' , of course they say they do not believe in another God, god or gods. Their doctrine is error and in conflict with itself.

 

[Wrangler]

Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh

Not God became flesh. You know this.

 

[ProDeo]

Not God became flesh. You know this.

In the beginning was the Word,+ and the Word was with God,+ and the Word was a god. --- JW bible since approx 100+ years ---
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. --- real bible since 2000 years [!]

 

[Wrangler]

In the beginning was the Word,

In the beginning was not Jesus.

 

[Magdala]

@face2face, do you have any responses to post #666?
@Wrangler, do you have any response to the part in post #703 about God being one in Essence and Three in Persons?