The two witnessss

[Douggg]

Jesus is the 7th Kingdom. Satan is the 8th kingdom. Jesus is not the 8th kingdom after Satan.

Neither are a kingdom.

The 7 kings of Revelation 17:10 are 7 kings of the same family bloodline.

1. Julius Caesar
2. Augustus Caesar
3. Tiberius
4. Caligula
5. Claudius
6. Nero
7. the little horn person (emerges as leader over ten EU leaders)

8. the beast-king (the little horn person after being killed and come back to life)

 

[tailgator]

Christians draw attention to the end of Daniel 11 and the entire chapter of Daniel 12 as prophecies of the End Times, which we are in. We are trying to figure out the Witnesses, who they, when they will arrive and the Antichrist. Who is he? With all the has happenned recently ont the Middle East, Iran's proxy wars against Israel, the Hamas, Hezbollah, Houthis, etc ; one would think the Ayatolah Khamenei is the Antichrist. He is 85 and his regime seems to be losing. Do the have nukes? Maybe. Is he the king of the north though? Maybe not. Assad was just overthrown. Is this new guy the one who will start a New Caliphate and rally all Muslims against the world?
A key scripture if where this Kong of the north sets up camp:
And he shall plant the tents of his palace between the seas and the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and no one will help him. Dan. 11:45
So between Jerusalem and the seas. What seas? Mediterranean must be one. Being that he is the King of the North, could that be the Black sea? If so, Ankara is between Jerusalem and the seas.
Could Tyyip Erdogan, be this King of the North?
Maybe that Iran has been weakened and Assad is gone, he will move in?

The king of the north is not any of the kings in the middle east.He and his predecessors invade the middle east on a few occasions in the Daniel 11 and he has a great fleet of ships in Daniel 11.

As for the king of the north moving the tents of his palace between the seas in the holy mountain. That is Jerusalem. The tents that represent his palace is called an embassy in modern terms.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

The king of the north is not any of the kings in the middle east.He and his predecessors invade the middle east on a few occasions in the Daniel 11 and he has a great fleet of ships in Daniel 11.

As for the king of the north moving the tents of his palace between the seas in the holy mountain. That is Jerusalem. The tents that represent his palace is called an embassy in modern terms.

It's all an unsolved mystery and everyone here seems to have their own opinion lol. The Second.Coming / rapture theories are many floating around tòo. We'll see.

 

[Timtofly]

A statue does not cause great tribulation nor does it cause desolation.
A statue is something that is admired by people .A work of art by an artist.You will often find statures in art gallery or other places where the artwork can be seen .The armed forces do not use statues to cause desolation or great tribulation.

An AI nuclear device makes a great statue.

 

[Timtofly]

Neither are a kingdom.

The 7 kings of Revelation 17:10 are 7 kings of the same family bloodline.

1. Julius Caesar
2. Augustus Caesar
3. Tiberius
4. Caligula
5. Claudius
6. Nero
7. the little horn person (emerges as leader over ten EU leaders)

8. the beast-king (the little horn person after being killed and come back to life)




View attachment 55132

You are not paying attention. They are both.

"And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth."

Mountains are kingdoms.

Jerusalem did not sit on 7 Roman Empires.

Jerusalem had relationship with 7 earthly kingdoms, each having a major leader. Nebuchadnezzar was the King of Babylon. Artaxerxis was the King of Persia. Alexander was the ruler of Greece. Caesar Augustus was the leader of Rome, and there was a leader prior to the Reformation. The 6th kingdom is defunct. Jesus is the 7th, and Satan the 8th.

 

[Douggg]

You are not paying attention. They are both.

"And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth."

The seven mountains on which the woman sits is the location of Rome. Rome, the city of the seven hills.

The woman is the Vatican.

In Revelation 17:16, the ten horns (kings) that will align themselves with the beast king will burn the Vatican to the ground.

16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

 

[tailgator]

An AI nuclear device makes a great statue.

Well,according to scripture,it's not an AI that sets up the abomination that causes desolation.Its the king of the north armed forces.

Armed forces(Army,Navy,Air force,Marines)

 

[tailgator]

The seven mountains on which the woman sits is the location of Rome. Rome, the city of the seven hills.

The woman is the Vatican.

In Revelation 17:16, the ten horns (kings) that will align themselves with the beast king will burn the Vatican to the ground.

16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

No one hates the Vatican.You should at least find a city that is hated by its neighbors.


Revelation 17
The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire.



And let me ask you this,if the beast and ten horns hate the Vatican like you say,then why do they attack Jerusalem(a city sitting with seven hills) killing the two witnesses in Jerusalem?

 

[Jay Ross]

The seven mountains on which the woman sits is the location of Rome. Rome, the city of the seven hills.

"Mountains" is a metaphor for "religions." "Woman" is a metaphor for the "peoples of the earth" who should be worshipping Christ.

A lack of understanding takes people down rabbit holes that only led to one place and they willing accept becoming a candidate to that lake.

 

[Verily]

"Mountains" is a metaphor for "religions." "Woman" is a metaphor for the "peoples of the earth" who should be worshipping Christ.

A lack of understanding takes people down rabbit holes that only led to one place and they willing accept becoming a candidate to that lake.

We have a woman on waters that are shown to be peoples

Rev 17:5 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

Which the same here

Rev 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Sitting on waters and kings of the earth

 

[Douggg]

"Mountains" is a metaphor for "religions." "Woman" is a metaphor for the "peoples of the earth" who should be worshipping Christ.

A lack of understanding takes people down rabbit holes that only led to one place and they willing accept becoming a candidate to that lake.

Jay, the woman will be destroyed with fire by the ten horns (kings) that align themselves with the beast-king. It is in Revelation 17:16.

16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

The woman turned whore is the Vatican. The seven mountains where she is located is Rome.

 

[Douggg]

We have a woman on waters that are shown to be peoples

Rev 17:5 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

Which the same here

Rev 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Sitting on waters and kings of the earth

The woman turned whore is the Vatican. The Vatican acting through its RCC network spreads its influence to all the nations, peoples, tongues.

 

[Verily]

The woman turned whore is the Vatican. The Vatican acting through its RCC network spreads its influence to all the nations, peoples, tongues.

Sorta like having foreign Italian lobbyists that control congress?

Edit: meant sortA

 

[Timtofly]

The seven mountains on which the woman sits is the location of Rome. Rome, the city of the seven hills.

The woman is the Vatican.

In Revelation 17:16, the ten horns (kings) that will align themselves with the beast king will burn the Vatican to the ground.

16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

Nope, that cannot be. You are stuck in the Reformation, reformed ideology, that was pitted against the Catholic church.

That is as bad as saying the beast is Israel. Jerusalem is not the city, nor is Rome a city sitting on 7 physical hills, which equate to 7 dead humans. Hills are hills, and humans are humans. Humans are neither beasts nor physical hills, nor Kingdoms. Satan and Jesus are not symbolic humans, as you claim these hills are symbolic dead people. Satan is a created star, called a angel, and Jesus is both God and man, so not merely a human.

Israel is the woman who played the Harlot throughout Scripture and history. Israel is not both the Harlot and the Beast. Israel sits on the beast as the 8th mountain, a governmental relationship.

The 7 heads of the dragon in Revelation 12 is the historical relationship of Israel with Babylon, Medes and Persians, Greece, and Rome from Satan's perspective. Remember that at times, the dragon was friendly, and at other times an enemy. The 7 heads of the sea beast in Revelation 13 is still the same historical relationship of Israel, from the perspective of each government throughout history.


Then the 7 heads of the scarlet colored beast is the post Second Coming relationship of Israel with these world kingdoms, because all the first five had been dead and in the past for thousands of years. Revelation is not the historical account of first century Rome, as you insist with 7 Roman Emperors. Revelation is the relationship of Israel over time, since Nebuchadnezzar was the first king, just like Jesus and Satan will each have authority per Revelation 17 after Jesus is declared the King over the 7th World Wide Government in Revelation 11, at the 7th Trumpet. You agree that Revelation 11 includes every nation, ie the entire earth.

 

[Timtofly]

Well,according to scripture,it's not an AI that sets up the abomination that causes desolation.Its the king of the north armed forces.

Armed forces(Army,Navy,Air force,Marines)

I never said the ai sets up anything. I said the ai controlled nuclear device would make a nice statue. Then when it is brought online, and starts thinking for itself. Is when humans realize it is too late for them, in your sci-fi scenario.

 

[tailgator]

I never said the ai sets up anything. I said the ai controlled nuclear device would make a nice statue. Then when it is brought online, and starts thinking for itself. Is when humans realize it is too late for them, in your sci-fi scenario.

I don't have a sci-fi scenario.

I have descriptions given of the abomination that causes desolation in scripture.
This is Johns description of the events.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?



What John describes above is the great tribulation (rev 7:14)after the 6th seal is opened. The same great tribulation in Mathew 24:21 when the abomination of desolation. Is set up by the armed forces.


A statue does not cause a severe earthquake and the heavens to depart as a scroll being rolled together.A statue does nothing.

 

[Douggg]

Nope, that cannot be. You are stuck in the Reformation, reformed ideology, that was pitted against the Catholic church.

Reformation theology holds that the papacy/popes are the little horn/Antichrist.

I don't hold that view. I do believe that the Vatican is the woman turn whore though in some of its doctrines, and has been responsible for the deaths of many Christians during the inquisition period.

The ten kings who align themselves with the beast-king will destroy the Vatican - because they will hate the influence that the Vatican has had, and that the Vatican, in spite of all its faults, says Jesus is Lord - which will go against all the claims of the beast-king.

 

[Timtofly]

I don't have a sci-fi scenario.

I have descriptions given of the abomination that causes desolation in scripture.
This is Johns description of the events.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?



What John describes above is the great tribulation (rev 7:14)after the 6th seal is opened. The same great tribulation in Mathew 24:21 when the abomination of desolation. Is set up by the armed forces.


A statue does not cause a severe earthquake and the heavens to depart as a scroll being rolled together.A statue does nothing.

This is not describing great tribulation. The 6 Trumpets describe great tribulation.

The 6th Seal is the baptism of fire at the Second Coming. It has nothing to do with sci-fi nuclear weapons.

The stars coming to earth are the angels coming to earth per Matthew 13 and Matthew 25.

The angels came at the birth of Jesus and sang to the shepherds. Was that only symbolic of a nuclear tribulation at the birth of Jesus?

John equated the angels coming to earth with fig leaves falling on a windy day. How is that being destructive?

John the Baptist put it this way:

"I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."

Now, many were expecting the kingdom to be set up at the first coming, but that baptism of fire was not a reality on earth at that point in time. The baptism of the Holy Spirit would be ongoing, and it has been for almost 2000 years.

The baptism of fire is the birth of the LOF. This LOF is more descriptive of a literal sun in proximity to the earth, whereby humans will be literally tossed into the sun. This is more than a few weapons made by mankind. This will be a God created phenomenon.

Peter likened what God will do with the Flood, the last major judgement of God, upon the earth.

"For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."

"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."

Humans did not produce the Flood in Noah's day. They will not produce the 6th Seal event. Only God will baptize the earth in fire, and that is the start of the LOF.

I would say that Satan has deceived people and they have taken the coming destruction by God, as not as serious as humanity destroying creation. Even the introduction of nuclear weapons was touted as the destroying of world's.

The wrath of God does include the placement of billions of humans into the LOF. That is way more problematic than physical suffering during great tribulation.

"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

 

[Timtofly]

Reformation theology holds that the papacy/popes are the little horn/Antichrist.

I don't hold that view. I do believe that the Vatican is the woman turn whore though in some of its doctrines, and has been responsible for the deaths of many Christians during the inquisition period.

The ten kings who align themselves with the beast-king will destroy the Vatican - because they will hate the influence that the Vatican has had, and that the Vatican, in spite of all its faults, says Jesus is Lord - which will go against all the claims of the beast-king.

You don't call the Vatican the little horn, but you still claim the authority is the Vatican, and not Jerusalem. Hardly any difference.

Jerusalem is the city of power and influence that the 10 future individuals will go through and cleanse away every human religious connotation, to leave pure satanic devotion as being the only acceptable worship.

This is not just about one single religion. This is the end of all religions.

 

[tailgator]

This is not describing great tribulation. The 6 Trumpets describe great tribulation.

The 6th Seal is the baptism of fire at the Second Coming. It has nothing to do with sci-fi nuclear weapons.

The stars coming to earth are the angels coming to earth per Matthew 13 and Matthew 25.

The angels came at the birth of Jesus and sang to the shepherds. Was that only symbolic of a nuclear tribulation at the birth of Jesus?

John equated the angels coming to earth with fig leaves falling on a windy day. How is that being destructive?

John the Baptist put it this way:

"I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."

Now, many were expecting the kingdom to be set up at the first coming, but that baptism of fire was not a reality on earth at that point in time. The baptism of the Holy Spirit would be ongoing, and it has been for almost 2000 years.

The baptism of fire is the birth of the LOF. This LOF is more descriptive of a literal sun in proximity to the earth, whereby humans will be literally tossed into the sun. This is more than a few weapons made by mankind. This will be a God created phenomenon.

Peter likened what God will do with the Flood, the last major judgement of God, upon the earth.

"For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."

"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."

Humans did not produce the Flood in Noah's day. They will not produce the 6th Seal event. Only God will baptize the earth in fire, and that is the start of the LOF.

I would say that Satan has deceived people and they have taken the coming destruction by God, as not as serious as humanity destroying creation. Even the introduction of nuclear weapons was touted as the destroying of world's.

The wrath of God does include the placement of billions of humans into the LOF. That is way more problematic than physical suffering during great tribulation.

"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

Have you never read what happens after the 6th seal is opened?

A great multitude comes out of great tribulation after the 6th seal.is opened.

Or are you saying revelation is wrong and the great tribulation is not great tribulation.?

Revelation ,7​

​

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.​

You still say this great tribulation at the 6th seal is not great tribulation?It really annoys me sometimes when people say revelation is wrong.